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Thread: M8 vs M9 files!!!!

  1. #1
    alexanderruas
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    M8 vs M9 files!!!!

    Here is an archive of 6 M8 files and 6 M9 files.
    the shots on the M9 are done with the 35mm Summilux at F2
    the shots on the M8 are done with the 28mm Summicron at F2.

    The last car/street shots (M8_L9991793 & M9_L9991786) are done a F5.6 on both lenses. all other shots on F2.

    download the archive here: http://files.me.com/zanderc/j2pmid

    all files are dng. the M8 files are 10MB each and the M9 files are 36mb each.

    please feel free to work and post these files back here. both color and b/w!
    let's get this comparison goin on!!!

    to get things heated up - here are two examples. no tweaks done. basically just made straight jpg files out of the dng files.


    M8


    M9
    Last edited by alexanderruas; 22nd September 2009 at 05:35.

  2. #2
    alexanderruas
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    Re: M8 vs M9 files!!!!

    a few more examples.


    M8


    M9


    M8 @ F5.6


    M9 @ F5.6

  3. #3
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    Re: M8 vs M9 files!!!!

    Hi Alexanderruas,

    First let me express my appreciation for posting this (and future comparisons). Without making this a long posting about all the various ways and alternatives one can perform such a comparion and how valid (or not) each way is, the one immediate observation is the following and if it could be addressed to some degree, I personally feel it will strengthen the validity of what differences I observe in your posted files.

    Although endless arguments can be made for whether the same or different lenses are to be used on each body for such a test, each of these methodologies looks at something different, when dealing with bodies with different sized sensors. I noticed a little more sharpness and acuity in all the m9 shots vs. M8 (you posted) except when the respective lenses were stopped down to f5.6 . I believe performing such a comparion as you have set up, by setting both lenses at f5.6 or f8, elminates to a greater degree many of the resolution (sharpness differences) we might see between these two lenses, as opposed to shooting them near or at their widest apertures. It also eliminates any possibilities that front or back focus is a small part of the equation.

    Unlike some similar tests I've seen posted previously (between the M8 vs M9 with lense selcted to mimick same field of view wiwith both cameras) the lenses you have chosen have at least, a good match for compariable performance, especially when they are both stopped down. Some other tests I observed elsewhere, picked lenses that were substantially different in their optimal optical performance. That unfortunately resulted in substatial differences in M8 vs M9 files due primarily to the lenses selected. This resulted for me in questioning what differences I was observing. Again the suggestion of stopping down the lens you carefully selected for such a test, does help to minimize, as best as one can, another variable, where observed sharpness and acurity of observed details is concerned. Again thanks!

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 22nd September 2009 at 06:06.

  4. #4
    alexanderruas
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    Re: M8 vs M9 files!!!!

    I should say that I was able to make this quick test/comparison by shooting a few frames at the local Leica dealer here in Stockholm during 3 minutes.
    I guess maybe I will try to rent/borrow a M9 body in a few months and make a better test. I would have wanted to take more shots of people in descent lighting conditions wide open with the 35mm. also I would have wanted to try both my lenses (the 28 & 35) stopped down. I am sure I would come up with many variations that I would have wanted to try....
    but in the 3 minutes I had this is what I could come up with.

  5. #5
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    Re: M8 vs M9 files!!!!

    Alexander,

    On the contrary, my original post was more of a way of thanking you for taking the time to post this quick comparison and included a suggestion. I had no way to know, your use of the M9 was very limited at the time of testing. Shooting the respective lenses wide open, certainly would have looked at a coompletely different parameter than the one I was mentioning which suggested stopping down both those lenses to f5.6 or f8, to eliminate as much as possible, differences seen, as being attributed to the lenses rather than the bodies. Again, as we both acknowledge, there are a myriad of ways one can conduct such a test. Thank you for taking the time to post your images.

    Dave (D&A)
    Last edited by D&A; 22nd September 2009 at 06:37.

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    Re: M8 vs M9 files!!!!

    Thank you for posting these.

    The thing that strikes me most is the difference in depth of field. Not surprising of course given the different focal length with (I assume) the same lens to subject distance. But it does drive home for me one of the main things that entices me about the M9. I tend to shoot a lot at the 35mm field of view (full frame) so use the 28mm on my M8 a lot. It would be nice to be able to use my 35mm instead as I like the narrow DOF (and my 35mm is a 1.4, even better!)

  7. #7
    alexanderruas
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    Re: M8 vs M9 files!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by skimmel View Post
    Thank you for posting these.

    ...one of the main things that entices me about the M9. ...it would be nice to be able to use my 35mm instead as I like the narrow DOF (and my 35mm is a 1.4, even better!)
    Word!

    ;-)

  8. #8
    Ranger 9
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    Re: M8 vs M9 files!!!!

    I realize this wasn't your intent -- but for a casual browser such as myself, this would have been a more interesting thread if you had NOT labeled which files came from which camera! (And better yet if you had slipped in a few ringers made with a plebian DSLR...)

  9. #9
    alexanderruas
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    Re: M8 vs M9 files!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger 9 View Post
    I realize this wasn't your intent -- but for a casual browser such as myself, this would have been a more interesting thread if you had NOT labeled which files came from which camera! (And better yet if you had slipped in a few ringers made with a plebian DSLR...)
    ;-)

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    Re: M8 vs M9 files!!!!

    The first, strong, impression I get is that the 28 cron looks great wide open on the M9. Not surprised as I have the lens on my M8, but just as Jono has been saying, tis is a match made in heaven! best. I've considered, reluctantly, selling my 28 cron with an M8 for M9 funds, no way I'll do that after seeing your samples, and others. best....Peter

  11. #11
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: M8 vs M9 files!!!!

    Thanks Alexander, for sharing your raw files... unfortunately, Lightzone will need an upgrade to deal with the M9 files (nasty magenta blotches abound), so I had to console myself with a B&W conversion exercise on your M8 file

    M8
    1/45s f/2.0 at 28.0mm iso160


    Hope you like it, I enjoyed the exercise

    Kind Regards

    Brian

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    Re: M8 vs M9 files!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by innerimager View Post
    The first, strong, impression I get is that the 28 cron looks great wide open on the M9. Not surprised as I have the lens on my M8, but just as Jono has been saying, tis is a match made in heaven! best. I've considered, reluctantly, selling my 28 cron with an M8 for M9 funds, no way I'll do that after seeing your samples, and others. best....Peter
    Trust me ... Keep the 28!

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    Re: M8 vs M9 files!!!!

    The color seems a little better on the M9 files to me. The M8 files have a slight red cast to them. Look at the skin tones from the 1st set of images.

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    Re: M8 vs M9 files!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Trust me ... Keep the 28!
    Mark and Juno . . . the trustworthy pair

    I didn't use mine much on the M8 . . . but I think it's my favorite on the M9.

    As the man says

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: M8 vs M9 files!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by jklotz View Post
    The color seems a little better on the M9 files to me. The M8 files have a slight red cast to them. Look at the skin tones from the 1st set of images.
    That was fixed long ago with some custom M8 profiles written by users ... or presets to drop into Lightroom.

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    Re: M8 vs M9 files!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Mark and Juno . . . the trustworthy pair

    I didn't use mine much on the M8 . . . but I think it's my favorite on the M9.

    As the man says
    I already apologized for the miss-spelling of your name Jono.

    -Mark ... er, I mean ... Marc

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    Re: M8 vs M9 files!!!!

    Here's my take on this so far, (I have both cameras).

    Obviously, full frame is giving you the wider angle choices and retaining all the characteristics of the lenses as they were designed and intended. The M9 is also a somewhat easier camera to use. It's simply quicker in terms of controls ... which can translate into better IQ. Meaning that in changing conditions you can more swiftly alter and refine the ISO selection and easily adjust compensation to give you a better file going into post. This evaluation is based on using the camera as a street or event shooter as opposed to a landscape camera ... which I wouldn't use it for anyway.

    As far as pure IQ it's also obvious that FF 18 meg is giving you plenty of juice to work with later ... more ability to crop or enlarge, and something not mentioned very often .... a somewhat better ability to correct perspective or distortion with less visible degrading of the image.

    However, the M8 produces files that far outstrip what would seem logical from just looking at the comparative specifications. I've easily pulled 17" X 22" prints from the M8 that rival prints from any 35mm digital camera, full frame or not, higher meg or not.

    The other thing I'm discovering is that (so far) the M8 is a much better camera for B&W. As Jack Flesher said "It's where a screw-up has become a benefit" (i.e. weak IR filtration) . See the thread "M9 and B&W".

    IMO, for the price, the M8 is one heck of a camera ... and for the time being, I've decided to keep one of my M8s rather than ordering a second M9. I think it will be a great combo ... not to mention save me a ton of cash

    -Marc

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