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Thread: M9 and B&W?

  1. #151
    colin
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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    Thanks Neil. I think yours looks pretty good! In working with the RAW files, I pretty much did what you said - processed low contrast followed by toning in ASE - except that I didn't add grain.

  2. #152
    Subscriber Member mwalker's Avatar
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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    Colin, mwalker is not critisising your attempt but mine that I removed not thinking how it would look.
    Mike ,Iagree,but as an excuse Im only trying to get some detail in the areas that worry me.Others will do a better job but it seems by lowering the contrast and toning the image in raw then adding grain with dxo film plug in ,something can be done.Honestly have little idea what Im doing and maybe have degraded the image with what Ive done,thanks..Neil.
    I like the grain but it seems to have lost its pop...oh and by the way I wasn't ctiticizing just making an observation...I'm sure you have a "little idea" of what you're doing .
    Last edited by mwalker; 28th September 2009 at 06:26.
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  3. #153
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    It did loss it's pop but I like the grain structure
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  4. #154
    Super Duper
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    Re: M9 and B&W?



    A quick snap gets 100 hours of processing and discussion.


    Marc ...

  5. #155
    Subscriber Member mwalker's Avatar
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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    that only shows you....you can't squeeze blood from a rock... not the best example.
    Mike

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  6. #156
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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post


    A quick snap gets 100 hours of processing and discussion.


    Marc ...
    I think you kicked that boulder off the cliff, Marc, didn't you? Look at that sucker roll... no stopping it now.

  7. #157
    ddk
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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post


    A quick snap gets 100 hours of processing and discussion.


    Marc ...
    Been wondering he same thing, why did everyone pick this one to play with?

  8. #158
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    ROTFLMAO . I had other shots in that folder. The two girls together in black would have been a good one also 0527. Or the old buildings . I know boring but has the full tonal range in them
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  9. #159
    nautilus
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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post

    ...

    I can do that with a $2,000. 24 meg image stabilized Sony A850 and Zeiss optics.

    ...
    Hi Marc,

    I remember that you are familiar with different cameras, e.g. Sony Alpha900, Nikon D3x and now M9. And that you have no problem with telling the truth. Hope there is no error so far with my assumptions.

    When I see some of M9's pictures here and on other places I get the impression that these pictures have a presence, clarity and easy natural sharpness that cameras like the A900 even with Zeiss glass can't deliver.

    Of course I can be wrong because I only saw these web pictures and a few big prints from Leica in real life. (which were very convincing!) Therefore I would like to ask for your personal opinion on this topic.
    Could it be true that the CCD sensor is responsible for this different look?

    Thanks!

  10. #160
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    Quote Originally Posted by ddk View Post
    Been wondering he same thing, why did everyone pick this one to play with?
    Because it's the one Guy uploaded

    Seriously though, I think it was a good example specifically because it is a "tough" file to work with.
    Jack
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  11. #161
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Because it's the one Guy uploaded

    Seriously though, I think it was a good example specifically because it is a "tough" file to work with.
    I totally agree . It was a very tough image to deal with
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  12. #162
    Super Duper
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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    Quote Originally Posted by nautilus View Post
    Hi Marc,

    I remember that you are familiar with different cameras, e.g. Sony Alpha900, Nikon D3x and now M9. And that you have no problem with telling the truth. Hope there is no error so far with my assumptions.

    When I see some of M9's pictures here and on other places I get the impression that these pictures have a presence, clarity and easy natural sharpness that cameras like the A900 even with Zeiss glass can't deliver.

    Of course I can be wrong because I only saw these web pictures and a few big prints from Leica in real life. (which were very convincing!) Therefore I would like to ask for your personal opinion on this topic.
    Could it be true that the CCD sensor is responsible for this different look?

    Thanks!
    Please re-read that post. It was in reference to subject matter and appropriate cameras for certain subjects ... not Image quality.

    -Marc

  13. #163
    nautilus
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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    Oh, sorry. I think now I that I misunderstood you (English is not my first language). You just donwloaded picture examples from the web.
    I thought that you already own the M9 and have personal experiences from several hundred shots and therefore could say something about the image quality compared to the Alpha 900.

    But Jono Slack did test the M9 and also was a messenger for the Alpha 900 camera in this forum. Maybe he will find this question and tell us his opinion.

  14. #164
    Super Duper
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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    Quote Originally Posted by nautilus View Post
    Oh, sorry. I think now I that I misunderstood you (English is not my first language). You just donwloaded picture examples from the web.
    I thought that you already own the M9 and have personal experiences from several hundred shots and therefore could say something about the image quality compared to the Alpha 900.

    But Jono Slack did test the M9 and also was a messenger for the Alpha 900 camera in this forum. Maybe he will find this question and tell us his opinion.
    I do have a M9 and a A900, and shoot with them in the same conditions.

    Yes, they are different looks. Both are very nice. The cameras themselves are very different and lend themselves to different styles of shooting.

  15. #165
    nei1
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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    As youve said the image has its problems,wether because its digital or analogue the brilliant white out of the chair back is a problem that is going to occur,for many reasons,a mistake or impossible lighting conditions,.......I was hoping that one of the many experts here would have a fix for this but it seems not,its a little disapointing but I suppose every system has its limits.
    However with an example like this thats maybe on the edge of possibility another way round the problem coud be shown,different exposure etc,because as it is this photo would not be acceptable to any client,Imean what would you professionals do if you brought this home without the possibility of a reshoot,,,,
    all the best,Neil

  16. #166
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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    As youve said the image has its problems,wether because its digital or analogue the brilliant white out of the chair back is a problem that is going to occur,for many reasons,a mistake or impossible lighting conditions,.......I was hoping that one of the many experts here would have a fix for this but it seems not,its a little disapointing but I suppose every system has its limits.
    However with an example like this thats maybe on the edge of possibility another way round the problem coud be shown,different exposure etc,because as it is this photo would not be acceptable to any client,Imean what would you professionals do if you brought this home without the possibility of a reshoot,,,,
    all the best,Neil
    Well, with the Highlight Warning enabled on the M9, you'd do the"reshoot" 5 seconds after taking the shot, not 3 days later like if you did it on film.

    -Marc

  17. #167
    Super Duper
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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    This is ACR with very minimal local adjustment brush, recovered highlights, didn't use the shadows tool which kills skin tones, about 15 seconds in total in ACR then running my B&W action which is the Gradient Map tool that Marc taught me years ago in the photo.net days plus a bit of Local Contrast Enhancement that I apply as part of the action.

    Didn't like the look of the file at all personally, very over gritty and flat mid tones. Have to try it in C1. No doubt an Adobe thing?

    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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  18. #168
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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    You're right Marc, it is flat, glad you found an action that works for you.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

  19. #169
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    As youve said the image has its problems,wether because its digital or analogue the brilliant white out of the chair back is a problem that is going to occur,for many reasons,a mistake or impossible lighting conditions,.......I was hoping that one of the many experts here would have a fix for this but it seems not,its a little disapointing but I suppose every system has its limits.
    However with an example like this thats maybe on the edge of possibility another way round the problem coud be shown,different exposure etc,because as it is this photo would not be acceptable to any client,Imean what would you professionals do if you brought this home without the possibility of a reshoot,,,,
    all the best,Neil
    Did not know you wanted it fixed. Was just waiting for everyone to tear it up first. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  20. #170
    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    How about a thread quota on.....

    :sleep006:

  21. #171
    Super Duper
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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    I only use this forum for the opportunity to use all the cool smilies....
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

  22. #172
    nei1
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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    Id love to know how you did this Guy;but to be honest all I wanted to know was that it could be done,so thanks for that,all the best.............Neil.

  23. #173
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    On iPhone right now but actually quite simple will explain in detail later
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  24. #174
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    Okay what i did was bring it in C1 and as soon as you bring the image in the highlight warning goes off. I have my C1 for 255, now what I did was raised the highlight slider till the red clipping goes away. I'm doing this all in color right now. When you raise the highlight the image gets darker so I pumped a little shadow in to raise its level than brightened the exposure ever so slightly to the point of not clipping again. From here I decide to clip just a touch of the shadows. Basically get the color image just perfect. Than I used style and the yellow filter and than under lens correction I vignetted the image some. I probably lightened the exposure even more after the conversion. Than converted and brought into CS4. Now the white highlight is still below 255 and more like 248 or so. Now using the magic wand I selected the chair than expanded that selection 3 pixels than feathered 1 pixel. What this does is soften the transition area than I adjusted using brightness and contrast and just lowered brightness down a little extra to get a little more detail in the highlight. Level now is like 241

    Than deselected and added .5 noise to the whole image. here you need to be careful noise pushed to far can get more ugly than add the look of grain so I put in a very small amount. Now obviously this is by taste and if you have a nice grain action or plug in than a good time to apply it here. After that just went into curves and just fine tuned to taste. Trick here is have a monitor calibrated so anything you do you can see . Also it is still RGB so go to mode and convert to B&W and that is about it. So when you run into some real trouble you can isolate it and make the correction. Hope that helps
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  25. #175
    nei1
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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    Thanks Guy,........."quite simple";....I"d be 50 years working that out...,Neil

  26. #176
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    Already past that . LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  27. #177
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    Thanks Guy,........."quite simple";....I"d be 50 years working that out...,Neil
    You need to come to a workshop -- we teach you how to do all that in like three minutes.

    ,
    Jack
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  28. #178
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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    I think you guys should consider doing an internet based 'course' on C1...

    surprised MRiechman hasn't - since he is such a fan of Phase One - but sticks to LR???

    as for teh pic above - the problem with Guy's final shot - is teh muddy grey washed out blonde girl's face..

    I have started playing with C1 again loading a bunch of snaps made on holidays in Greece - I much prefer it to LR for raw conversion and basic prep. I can understand why a pwerson would stick with Phase One backs - because of C1 workflow..

    with M9 ariving in a week or so I thought I'd brush up on C1 and woudl love to have a downloadable 'course' I could use to really get to know the nitty gritty of the programme.

    *just a suggestion/thought - you can cut me in for a 10% spotters fee if you like -

  29. #179
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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    Peter,

    Doug does C1 web training at Capture Integration:
    http://www.captureintegration.com/20...e-web-seminar/

  30. #180
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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    CMB,

    thankss for the link -but I am under the impression that it is a web bsaed interactive 'live' attendance situation?

    I would appreciate a comprehensive set of tutorials which I can work through at my own pace - snce I am in Australia.

    Pete

  31. #181
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    GetDPI workshops has considered this. Maybe after version 5 is out
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    Well if you do - sign me up for interest Guy. I can even send you guys a list of topics that I would beinterested in covering - more about the mechanics of the programme...

  33. #183
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    We will and would do something right here on the forum for folks to make a purchase.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    Cool

  35. #185
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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    I like the sound of that. I'd sign right up.

  36. #186
    Subscriber Member mwalker's Avatar
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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    Could be a big seller..I've bought Reichmann's LR vids that helped. C1 has been a pita to pick up after learning LR.
    Mike

    website under construction

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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    you'd be shocked at how much David Hobby makes off DVD's at Strobist...

  38. #188
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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    GetDPI workshops has considered this. Maybe after version 5 is out
    Guy, here's a personal appeal to do that. Like many things photographic, what seems remedially simple to those who know, is a mystery to those who don't.

    While the judgement of what looks good or not is up to the user, the workflow and mechanics of C1 are hardly intuitive. As such, it is really slow going for those like me who use it occasionally ... mostly because it can be a pretty frustrating experience.

    BTW, I would be willing to provide some wedding files (and releases) to flesh out the type of files (including some very difficult ones) to round out subject matter on any instruction video ... and I'll be sitting on my behind most of the winter, so if you need a beta tester I'm your man

    -Marc

  39. #189
    Senior Member otumay's Avatar
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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    We will and would do something right here on the forum for folks to make a purchase.
    Guy, that is wonderful news for us who find it had to travel all that distance.

    Osman

  40. #190
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    Thanks for the response folks. This shall be done than. Already starting to make plans.

    C1 is a great program but like any other photographic tool not always easy to open the box and get started plus even one person teaching it does not always give you all the options and techniques on how something works. So this will be a team effort on showing you how do things that each individual viewing can benefit from.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  41. #191
    Member Seascape's Avatar
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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    GetDPI workshops has considered this. Maybe after version 5 is out
    So Guy, is Version 5 expected sometime soon?

    Will it be the official incorporation of the M9 profile?

  42. #192
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: M9 and B&W?

    Yes version 5 is slated for Oct. 28. Not sure on the M9 profile but as we see it could use a little tweak in the saturation plus a slight red to it as well and on the warm side in regards to kelvin . But you can make a preset and apply those slight corrections. Hopefully Phase made a adjustment.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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