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M9 firmware in a M8?

fotografz

Well-known member
Okay this is just weird ... but a little birdie told me that the M9 firmware can be loaded into a M8 ... that some Leica person told him it was possible but obviously not all aspects would be applicable.

Now I am simply to much of a chicken to try it since I don't know if it's true, and if I did unsuccessfully try it whether you can revert to the old firmware.

I wonder what aspects of the M9 could be applied to the M8 even if this could be done with firmware?

Could the expanded ISO choices be implemented via firmware? What about the non-coded lens selections?

Could it be that Leica doesn't want this known as it would lessen the appeal of the M9?

Seems possible but not probable. Yet it does opens up intriguing possibilities to enhance the M8 experience.

If they have the ability to issue a new M8 firmware with these improvements, that would be great news for loyal M8 users. They did it after the M8.2 came out, maybe they will do it again.

-Marc
 

Christopher

Active member
Well, I'm pretty certain it works. However I don't have a m9 yet so I have to keep a working m8. If we all put the money together and can raise enough for a used m8, I'll do it :p
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Well, I'm pretty certain it works. However I don't have a m9 yet so I have to keep a working m8. If we all put the money together and can raise enough for a used m8, I'll do it :p
Chris, you aren't the Devil are you ... making me do something stupid :ROTFL:
 

mwalker

Subscriber Member
Marc, Sandy or Hans over at the LUF could answer that.... I would think it could work but not ideal because the sensor mapping is different. I'll bet Leica anticipated someone would try it :p
 

jonoslack

Active member
Hi There
Well, I'm 99% certain that it would not work. There is a different processor, different chip size and different filtration. Sounds like a catastrophe to me!
 

gDallasK

New member
Hi There
Well, I'm 99% certain that it would not work.
... unless it is "universal code" which would know whether it was in an M8 or an M9.

I'm just dreaming of course! And I'm not about to try it in my M8 - which I'll need to sell before the credit card bill for my M9 arrives!

Geoff
 

lmr

Member
Since we are on Firmware topic... I asked earlier in of the thread, but was lost due to the excitement or the M9 launch.

What support are we going to get with the M8 firmware? Will there be new firmware for the M8? Is it going to like the DMR?

Any direction from Leica about this?

Thx.
Robert.
 

John Black

Active member
I think I remember reading (or hearing in the M9 video from Reichmann) that there would be no more M8 firmware updates.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Would the crop factor change to 1X upon upgrade?

Anything less would not be worth the risk.
 

cdnguyen

Member
Somebody needs to do it and let all of us know.... You can always send the M8 back to Leica NJ to restore the original M8 firmware. I can definitely use the focal length input feature (M9) for my M8.
 

Christopher

Active member
Well I thought about it again. And forget it. It could work, but ALL in camera correction would be off. (1.0 VS 1.3 crop)
 

Maarten

Member
I put a card with the M9 firmware in my M8 but it did not recognize the firmware. If you open the firmware of the M9 and the M8 in a text editor (not Word or similar but Notepad or Texteditor) you will see that the M9 firmware is encrypted and the M8 is not. There is no way you can get this firmware in the M8. You would at the minimum need the source code. But I know dreaming is nice.....
 
M

Mango

Guest
If pimply teenagers with a rudimentary education can create iPhone Apps by the thousands, there is no reason for Leica cannot do this for the loyal customers who bought the M8 cameras. Now that the M8 is out of production and the M9 is sold out till 2015, there is no logical business reason to not do this. Why don't they care about the loyal M8 buyers?
 
R

roey

Guest
If pimply teenagers with a rudimentary education can create iPhone Apps by the thousands, there is no reason for Leica cannot do this for the loyal customers who bought the M8 cameras. Now that the M8 is out of production and the M9 is sold out till 2015, there is no logical business reason to not do this. Why don't they care about the loyal M8 buyers?
How much would you pay for a firmware update to e.g. get the lens menu? How many copies of the firmware would Leica have to sell to pay the salary for the pimply teenagers who implement it? :)

I think they care about loyal M8 buyers, but they also have to be profitable and can't afford to spend tens of thousands Euros on firmware updates that don't result in any direct revenue. I believe we can expect firmware updates for new lenses but not much more.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
How much would you pay for a firmware update to e.g. get the lens menu? How many copies of the firmware would Leica have to sell to pay the salary for the pimply teenagers who implement it? :)

I think they care about loyal M8 buyers, but they also have to be profitable and can't afford to spend tens of thousands Euros on firmware updates that don't result in any direct revenue. I believe we can expect firmware updates for new lenses but not much more.
I don't know if I agree with this.

While I've moved on to a M9 and sold my M8s ... I feel it is important for Leica to maintain the functionality of previous digital models. They provided firmware updates for the the M8 when the M8.2 came out and gave M8 owners added features like the delayed advance. Since at least some of the work has been done for the M9, how hard and costly could it be to add lens selection to the M8 and M8.2?

I'd hate to have my uber expensive M9 rendered less functional to a M10 when it comes someday. Advancements should come in hardware to make the M10 attractive not just some programing aspect.

Hasselblad is also a relatively small company, yet they have retro fitted most everything they can for owners of previous models ... now even old Zeiss lenses can benefit from software corrections ... and as revealed in another thread here, firmware updates can be applied even to previous H camera models to use the digital lenses.

Leica needs to look backwards as well as forwards. :)
 
R

roey

Guest
Since at least some of the work has been done for the M9, how hard and costly could it be to add lens selection to the M8 and M8.2?
That seems to be the point where we disagree. To my knowledge the M9 firmware is a complete rewrite. One can't just copy/paste the lens selection code from one code base to the other. Considering how long it took Leica to get the M8 firmware to its current semi-stable state, I think it is safe to say that any fundamental change would be risky and would require extensive testing. I am still seeing the occasional freeze with my M8 -- interestingly the freezes seem to be related to said new delayed advance feature. :eek:

I agree with you that it is in Leica's interest to keep the existing M8s running -- with support for new lenses and potentially low-risk bug fixes. However I just can't see them developing new features and going through extensive implementation and quality assurance cycles.
 

LJL

New member
How much would you pay for a firmware update to e.g. get the lens menu? How many copies of the firmware would Leica have to sell to pay the salary for the pimply teenagers who implement it? :)

I think they care about loyal M8 buyers, but they also have to be profitable and can't afford to spend tens of thousands Euros on firmware updates that don't result in any direct revenue. I believe we can expect firmware updates for new lenses but not much more.
Couple of maybe problems here. First, the lens charts for the M9 with the corrections will not be the same as for the M8. Sure, there may be enough overlap and the M8 crop may take the M9 FF correction into play, but they will not match. So, that could become a problem for Leica if folks start complaining that the "fix" does not really work properly. Just a thought.

Secondly, were Leica to release a firmware upgrade for the M8 that had something like the lens tables in it, and did find a way to charge for it, what is going to stop folks from just "sharing" the firmware update with their friends at no revenue to Leica? I know, I know, NONE of us would ever dream of doing something like that :angel: ;) Unless there was some way to tie the update to a specific serial number/owner or something, it could easily be shared and spread, thus negating a potential revenue stream without installing some scheme that could be very expensive on their end. There are probably some ways to do it, like requiring the camera be returned to a dealer or Leica, somewhat like the what Phase had done in the past with updates, but that has its own expense and management requirements that could be horrendous.

So, while it would be nice to have some of the new things from the M9 firmware on the M8, such as the lens chart, I would want it to be properly configured (if it really is different in its corrections between M8 and M9), and that may not be in Leica's interest at this point any longer. What is in the M8 works as it was designed. We may just have to live with that part, or go buy an M9.

Just some thoughts on why this probably will not be happening. :cool:

LJ
 

Rolo

Member
To my knowledge the M9 firmware is a complete rewrite.
However I just can't see them developing new features and going through extensive implementation and quality assurance cycles.
Leica will have to release future updates of he M8 firmware to be current with future lenses. If you are right and it's a complete re-write then I assume they will soon have the M8 version in the same format. That must have been considered when the rewrite decision was taken. Must be cheaper to have developed a platform for both, rather than go back under customer pressure.

My current M8 is just three months old and I'd expect the "perpetual upgrade programme" for it to at least include the firmware developments that can be incorporated. Regardless, I have no doubt that Leica will continually develop M8 firmware.

Further, the M8 has a hair trigger on the timed shutter release - breath on it and it cuts in. Presumably, this signal could easily be adopted as the 'soft release' ?
 
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