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Thread: X1 Preview on Dpreview

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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    Did not say much but it does look interesting.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    They talk about what I've liked about it since the beginning the pared back interface like the M8 and I love the dials on top for the Aperture and Shutter speed. If this camera had a m4/3 mount I would buy it in a second. Arrrrgh I know it is going to be good but 35mm only just isn't my shooting.

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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    So is it only me that's wondering why they made a fixed-lens APS camera instead of using the exact same concept in a micro 4/3rds cam with interchangeable lenses?
    Jack
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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    So is it only me that's wondering why they made a fixed-lens APS camera instead of using the exact same concept in a micro 4/3rds cam with interchangeable lenses?
    Because they don't think that 4/3 is good enough.

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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    So is it only me that's wondering why they made a fixed-lens APS camera instead of using the exact same concept in a micro 4/3rds cam with interchangeable lenses?
    I guess that would be a majority thought.

    I do not think they can compete with the m4/3rds with this kind of prices.

    Lovely design though!

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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    Did anyone see the picture of the knurled ring at the base of the lens removed ? It covers threading around the lens. Their explanation is that this is to accommodate an adaptor and future accessories.
    Also explaining why the lens wasn't made with control rings for aperture, focus, etc.
    I wonder how useful this would be ? Would there be a negative effect on the images it produced ?
    I used to have a Nikon p&s that had this setup, but I must confess that I never used it. Actually, I never even tried it.

    AS

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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post

    I do not think they can compete with the m4/3rds with this kind of prices.
    Maybe, but at least I'd seriously consider an M-/3rds version of the above camera with a Leica 17mm f2.0 lens. And thinking about it as long as it took me to write this, would probably buy something like that NOW at that price!

    My .02...
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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    I would spend the extra for that camera.

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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Maybe, but at least I'd seriously consider an M-/3rds version of the above camera with a Leica 17mm f2.0 lens. And thinking about it as long as it took me to write this, would probably buy something like that NOW at that price!

    My .02...
    Sure thing. I agree.

    By the time Leica catches up to the mirrorless camera concept..the market will be flooded with many many other brands.

    I would still welcome any lenses that Leica may end up making for the others.

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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    Interesting indeed.
    Now we have a digital CM, presumably next year there will be a X zoom, and then a CL equivalent with an M mount to take interchangeable lenses (well, they'd hardly do it now having just released the M9 would they?)

    Seems logical to me, especially having got this far.

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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    Real leicas are 3x2;thats it.If the IQ is good with a wider dynamic range than the M8(quite possible apparently)and the autofocus is quick,YOU ARE ALL going to buy one,and you know it.

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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    someone will yell at me for this, but looking at the top deck of this camera


    I am wondering why its been so long since other makers have had such a simple design?

    I would love this arrangement on all my cameras, why hasn't the GF1 got this?

    also, I totally love the on screen histogram ...



    its usable, well sized and has a 'scale' along the bottom. Total thumbs up. I never could get used to the square block of the Panasonic ... its unusable to me.

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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    Those dials look rather easy to knock off the right setting to me.

    Anyone notice that there isn't a real anti shake?
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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    I love that pop-up flash. Absolutely gorgeous.

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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    This style of camera is for taking shots of people,not landscapes or still life;if the exposure is longer than a 30tyuth you need a different camera.If you feel you need anti-shake this camera is not for you,buy a panasonic G something,its much better as an all purpose camera,much better.Alot of you like the idea and prestige of a leica M but you know that really you take better photos using something else,seems a little silly to pretend .

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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    Real leicas are 3x2;thats it.If the IQ is good with a wider dynamic range than the M8(quite possible apparently)and the autofocus is quick,YOU ARE ALL going to buy one,and you know it.
    I'm not

    Just like I'm not buying an S2 (wonderful though it may be)

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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm,that can only be because you dont hold out much hope for it;youre the man with the inside information Jono,spill the beans!

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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    I will buy one if someone sells it to me for $50.

    OK, let us make it $150/- because of the super-duper pop-up flash.

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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm,that can only be because you dont hold out much hope for it;youre the man with the inside information Jono,spill the beans!
    I know exactly as much as you do Neil - the reason I don't want one is that 35mm really isn't my focal length.

    Now then, if they brought out one with an M mount . . .

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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    I'm on a list...

    "The market wants a Leica to be a Leica: the inheritor of tradition, the subject of lore, and indisputably a mark of status to own."
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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    Does the M8/M9 use the standard mini-USB plug like this? The DLux series is the different one that Panny/Pentax/etc use. Canikon uses std mini-USB.

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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    Why are the top plate dial screws off centre?

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    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    A lot of you like the idea and prestige of a leica M but you know that really you take better photos using something else,seems a little silly to pretend .
    A highly subjective opinion Neil, and here's another one, from Phil Askey, chief honcho at DPReview


    'Hence not long after posting my review I bought an M8 for myself (along with a bunch of lenses), and ever since (and unconsciously) all of my personal favorite photographs have come from the M8.'

    I'm with him.

    Tim

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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    A highly subjective opinion Neil, and here's another one, from Phil Askey, chief honcho at DPReview


    'Hence not long after posting my review I bought an M8 for myself (along with a bunch of lenses), and ever since (and unconsciously) all of my personal favorite photographs have come from the M8.'

    I'm with him.

    Tim
    well thats good ,isnt it?

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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    I own 4/3rds cameras but still think the APS-C is better noise wise. X1 will be good companion for my M8.

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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    well thats good ,isnt it?
    HI Neil
    Why is that confusing?
    I'm afraid I'm in the same boat.

    I know you simply don't like digital, but you may as well be hung for a lamb as for a sheep (ie the M8 rather than the D3x).

    It's rather uncomplimentary to insist that people only use leica because of the prestige, and ungraceful to be confused when they say that they take their best pictures with them.

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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    I would own one and a few lenses if I could afford one. I think it would be a camera I could love. I'm so enjoying shooting MF again after many many years. I never owned a film RF--wish I had, but I know I'm not going to go down that route again so until and unless someone comes out with an affordable digital version of a RF, I can only look and wish. It really has nothing to do with Leica's reputation for me.

    Diane

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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    When people feel agrieved because their leica M (digital or film)is not capable of being a jack of all trades Id say they were misguided to say the least.The idea of spending so much money and not knowing what it is Im buying nor what it is good at is alien to me and smacks of a silly diletente with little real interest in photography .
    Ive in no way included all leica buyers in this and if I may say so rather inflamatory of you to suggest Jono,...ungraceful to appear confused?when a complete stranger to me feels that im referring to them,a little egotisticle but if the cap fits then put it on by all means.

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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    So is it only me that's wondering why they made a fixed-lens APS camera instead of using the exact same concept in a micro 4/3rds cam with interchangeable lenses?
    I think it may have something to do with a contractual agreement with Panasonic. Leica may well build some 4/3 lenses for Pana but I doubt they would compete directly with bodies. Plus I doubt they could build 4/3 bodies at the quality level and price point of Pana so they would have to have Pana build them custom labeled bodies and then charge 30% more to the consumer.

    The X1 will probably find a niche market at $1995 though. JMHO

    Woody

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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    That makes sense. I'm not sure it would have been a good idea for Leica to compete head-to-head on a micro 4/3 body. Leica manufactures hand-built limited production specialty products. The X1 is no different than an M9 or S2 in that regard. Plus an APS sensor is larger than micro 4/3.

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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    i'm amused Neil, that you think people who are seriously looking at this camera is a jack of all trades. this is very much a one-trick pony, but my hopes are that it does what it's supposed to do really well.

    or maybe i'm hoping it doesn't because i really can't afford it....

    i am one of those who hasn't fallen in love with micro 4/3rds. it doesn't float my personal boat. those offerings available now are very versatile, but i don't need that.

    i don't give a fig for the prestige of owning a Leica -- i have one. a red dot is mine. i don't feel a burning need for another.... what i want is a camera that i hoped the DP1 would be -- but wasn't. if Ricoh had put an APS-C sensor in the GRDIII, i would have gone for that in a heartbeat. but they didn't....

    believe it or not, some of us are actually intelligent enough (or, in my case, have learned by past missteps) what they want in a camera. for some, this may be it.

    though, again, i'm kind of hoping it isn't for me because it's way over my budget... i will have more of a clue if it's on my lust list after i get to play with it at a photo fair next week. handling and speed of use are my top priorities, and the ability to get decent high ISO to cover the slow lens. and, obviously, i am expecting excellent image quality.

    i know you'll be waiting for my findings with bated breath, Neil. i promise to report back

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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    It seems fairly easy to understand Leica business model ...if you consider how they define success. Its about jobs in Germany.

    Not terribly different than the process Porsche went through. Except that Leica has family ownership and while accountable to the banks ..has no real shareholders to satisfy.

    Each of Leica s product lines will be made in Germany. Sure there will be substantial content from outside of Germany....but it looks like final assembly and testing will be in the new plant? Why else would you make any of the X1 in germany? same for the summarit lenses ..they could be 30% less expensive .

    I am not saying anything is wrong with the strategy because it creates volume needed to support the German capabilities that define Leica......

    Producing a Leica 4/3 body would be straightforward and would add to Leica s revenue in a meaningful way.....but it would create a Leica product that would be 100% outside of Germany.

  34. #34
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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    Well actually I am....Ive followed a similar,if unfortunatly imaginary,route to you Cam,maybe it will be the gx300 that rings the bell ,it could still be the X1 if focus is fast and dynamic range wide and I fogive it its 35mm lens,......best to you...Neil.

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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    HI Neil
    I thought receding curly hair bestowed a mellow character (certainly does here)
    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    When people feel agrieved because their leica M (digital or film)is not capable of being a jack of all trades Id say they were misguided to say the least.The idea of spending so much money and not knowing what it is Im buying nor what it is good at is alien to me and smacks of a silly diletente with little real interest in photography .
    But who said that they were aggrieved that their Leica M was not a jack of all trades? Nobody in this thread. If that's what you were responding to you certainly didn't make it very clear.
    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    Ive in no way included all leica buyers in this and if I may say so rather inflamatory of you to suggest Jono,...ungraceful to appear confused?when a complete stranger to me feels that im referring to them,a little egotisticle but if the cap fits then put it on by all means.
    Well, you certainly didn't exclude any! I suppose the phrase 'a lot of you' does leave the possibility of one or two holy exceptions. If Tim Ashley is a complete stranger you should get about more .

    If you throw around generalised and unspecific insults, then you should expect generalised and unspecific people to be offended!

    Incidentally, have you got yourself a digicam yet?

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  36. #36
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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    You seem a little obsessed with my hair Jono,very kind of you to be interested and to help fill yours in its not receding yet but Im sure when it does Ill be as mellow as you and those generalised and unspecific people that you know so well.

    .........as for the digicam,no not yet;hoping for a freebee.

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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    You seem a little obsessed with my hair Jono,very kind of you to be interested and to help fill yours in its not receding yet but Im sure when it does Ill be as mellow as you and those generalised and unspecific people that you know so well.

    .........as for the digicam,no not yet;hoping for a freebee.
    I'm obsessed my many things Neil .. . but your hair isn't one of them (I thought it was you that was obsessed, otherwise why that avatar?), and is that some strange new definition of 'not receding' ?

    I guess we'd all like a freebee, but it might be a long wait (I'm certainly not holding my breath) . . mind you, I've got an old fuji 6mp you're most welcome to! .
    Last edited by jonoslack; 7th October 2009 at 16:15.

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  38. #38
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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    Thankyou Jono thats very kind,I think its a possibility that a camera that is well used and has taken many good photographs can have added value,akind of positve karma that could rub off onto the new owner.I could quite understand someone paying a great deal of money for Bressons old leica and finding additional pleasure in its use.
    However the idea of using one of your old cameras doesnt have quite the same appeal .
    By the way,talking of digicams hows the M9,quite an investment for not much gain it seems,unless you like massive enlargements and those whacky wide-angles.If the X1 proves to be a non starter Ill be looking for a nice M8-2 to weld my 35mmlux to,shouldnt cost too much more.
    all the best,Neil.
    Last edited by nei1; 7th October 2009 at 23:57.

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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    Thankyou Jono thats very kind,I think its a possibility that a camera that is well used and has taken many good photographs can have added value,akind of positve karma that could rub off onto the new owner.I could quite understand someone paying a great deal of money for Bressons old leica and finding additional pleasure in its use.
    However the idea of using one of your old cameras doesnt have quite the same appeal .
    It doesn't appeal much to me either (but this one is actually one my wife used, which is quite a different matter )
    Speaking of 'rubbing off' I'm pleased to see that your photoshop skills haven't receded with your hairline
    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    By the way,talking of digicams hows the M9,quite an investment for not much gain it seems,unless you like massive enlargements and those whacky wide-angles.If the X1 proves to be a non starter Ill be looking for a nice M8-2 to weld my 35mmlux to,shouldnt cost too much more.
    all the best,Neil.
    Well I'm loving it, but then I do like to do big enlargements sometimes, and I do also like the wide angles.

    Still, I'm using it for landscape stuff where 'real' people are using MF cameras, and if you compare it to the price of a new Phase or Hassleblad or S2, then it suddenly seems cheap.

    I'm sure you're right to get an M8.2 for your 35 'lux, I'm not sure when the right time to get it is though, I'm wondering whether now might not be the strategic moment, when everyone is scrambling to get rid of them. My feeling is that the price might go up again when things settle down.

    Perhaps, if you don't want the old fuji, I could send you some hair tonic?

    Just this guy you know

  40. #40
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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    I think youre right about the M8-2 price Jono,unfortunatly the "right time"for me is strongly influenced by the car not breaking down,the roof not needing to be fixed and my wife being away for a few days.However when a rare equinox of such circumstances next occurs Ill be in like a shot........thanks for the banter,best to you..Neil.

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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    I think youre right about the M8-2 price Jono,unfortunatly the "right time"for me is strongly influenced by the car not breaking down,the roof not needing to be fixed and my wife being away for a few days.However when a rare equinox of such circumstances next occurs Ill be in like a shot........thanks for the banter,best to you..Neil.
    And to you too - you can put your hair back on now - but when you do it you should add the before and after 'reduced hair' shots to the thread, so that those following behind can understand the joke.

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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Still, I'm using it for landscape stuff where 'real' people are using MF cameras, and if you compare it to the price of a new Phase or Hassleblad or S2, then it suddenly seems cheap.
    ahem! cough. cough again... real people use MF for landscapes?

    what does that make me? a figment of your imagination??? i couldn't shoot a landscape if it bit me in the a$$...

    i do, however, have a beautiful full head of long, thick hair -- so take that, you wankers!

    edited to add -- i was just told that MF stands for medium format rather than manual focus so mea culpa if this is true... but i still have more hair than the lot of you, so na na na na NA!

  43. #43
    nei1
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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    Thanks for the hair tonic Jono,,worked a treat.

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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    Thanks for the hair tonic Jono,,worked a treat.

  45. #45
    nei1
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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    Cam ,can I send you a bottle?
    Last edited by nei1; 24th October 2009 at 03:01.

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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyspedden View Post
    I think it may have something to do with a contractual agreement with Panasonic. Leica may well build some 4/3 lenses for Pana but I doubt they would compete directly with bodies. Plus I doubt they could build 4/3 bodies at the quality level and price point of Pana so they would have to have Pana build them custom labeled bodies and then charge 30% more to the consumer.

    The X1 will probably find a niche market at $1995 though. JMHO

    Woody
    I don't think Leica builds any of the Pana lenses. They just license the design, testing spec, and right to put the name Leica on them.

    "The market wants a Leica to be a Leica: the inheritor of tradition, the subject of lore, and indisputably a mark of status to own."
    Mike Johnston


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    Re: X1 Preview on Dpreview

    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    Cam ,can I send you a bottle?
    Wonderful Neil

    Send her a bottle immediately (and you'd better tell her to drink it after that nanananan remark)!

    Just this guy you know

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