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Thread: A Fast 28mm?

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    A Fast 28mm?

    OK, so I pretty much adore my CV 28/3.5 lens, but I'd like something a bit faster. I've read Sean's review (long ago) and, truth be told, I kind of got bogged down in the stuff that had to do with using lenses uncoded and unfiltered.

    The 28mm Summicron would be great, except it costs more than my net worth (if you don't count my M8 and my car) and the only way for me to afford it would be to sell the very camera and computer I need to use it. It's just too darn expensive.

    So, what are the more reasonably-priced alternatives and what do y'all of think of them?

    The Elmarit-M looks nice, but at 2.8, that's like, what, a practical half-stop? Is there a fast 24mm? The Zeiss and the CV Ultron look kind of large. Is there old glass that can be coded?

    Oh, such questions.

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    Senior Member simonclivehughes's Avatar
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    Re: A Fast 28mm?

    Maggie,

    I've used the CV 28mm Ultron which is f1.9 on my M8s and on my R-D1s previously and I can't say enough good things about that lens. For the money, it is simply superb. While it's bigger than your 28/3.5, it is by no means unwieldy.

    Cheers,

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    Re: A Fast 28mm?

    Maggie,
    I hear you. I was going to Morocco and had 15 f4.5, 21 f4, 28 f3.5 and was feeling like I needed something faster. I went through your same process and was fortunate to come out the other side with the 28 cron. I'm not wild about the elmarit as the cron seems much smoother and less contrasty which is more to my taste. The Ultron was on my list as well. With your 35 at 1.4, can you take a few steps back when you need a fast lens or are you constrained by walls and other impediments?

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    Re: A Fast 28mm?

    I just went back a re-read Sean's review and it seems that he concurs.

    My 35mm Ultron is a favorite, so maybe this question is simpler than I think.

    Does anyone have a photo of the 28/1.9 Ultron mounted on an M8? Is there a vented hood for it? The stock hood looks awfully large and clunky.

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    Re: A Fast 28mm?

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Maggie,
    I hear you. I was going to Morocco and had 15 f4.5, 21 f4, 28 f3.5 and was feeling like I needed something faster. I went through your same process and was fortunate to come out the other side with the 28 cron. I'm not wild about the elmarit as the cron seems much smoother and less contrasty which is more to my taste. The Ultron was on my list as well. With your 35 at 1.4, can you take a few steps back when you need a fast lens or are you constrained by walls and other impediments?
    Terry, I often find myself shooting indoors, so sometimes that extra step just isn't there. I've got an upcoming job to shoot in a salon and quarters will be pretty tight there.

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    Re: A Fast 28mm?

    The only fast 28's for the M are the Cron Asph and the CV Ultron. That's it.

    As for the practical difference between f2.8 and 3.5 in 28, it depends whether you are after the shallow DoF from the fast aperture or shorter shutter speeds. Either way I'd say either difference/advantage is not going to be significant enough to go through the exercise... And FWIW, the older Leica 28 pre-asph Elmarits while good lenses, are nothing stellar by Leica standards.

    No fast 24's worth looking at, plus once you get that wide, lens speed doesn't translate onto the image as notably as it does with longer focals.

    My .02,
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: A Fast 28mm?

    Maggie,

    Ask and ye shall receive. It's just a quick snapshot from my GRD II so beware that the 28mm may make the lens look slightly larger than it really is. There is no vented hood, but the hood is not too clunky.

    Attachment 2301

    Cheers,
    Last edited by simonclivehughes; 15th February 2009 at 10:03.

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    Re: A Fast 28mm?

    The CV 28/1.9 Ultron was the second lens I got for my RD-1 and with the M8 just never saw any reason to upgrade it to Leica glass. Here's an example of it taken with the RD-1.

    Last edited by johnastovall; 20th March 2008 at 18:16.

    "The market wants a Leica to be a Leica: the inheritor of tradition, the subject of lore, and indisputably a mark of status to own."
    Mike Johnston


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    Re: A Fast 28mm?

    That doesn't look bad at all, size-wise. Thanks, John!

    BTW, your rig looks badass! (I know folks love it when I say "badass.")

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    Re: A Fast 28mm?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maggie O View Post
    (I know folks love it when I say "badass.")









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    Re: A Fast 28mm?

    I am using the 28/2 these days, but I am a former user of the 28/1.9. The 28/1.9 is larger, but in terms of performance, the 28/1.9 is still very good. The 28/2 is better, but the difference in real world photography is fairly minor. For the money, it is certainly worth it. The only reason I went to the summicron is that it is smaller, lighter, permanently coded and a better performer. But in general, the 28/1.9 will take you a long, long way.

    On the m8...not a great photo, but a sample.

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    Re: A Fast 28mm?

    But the lens uses L39 to M adapter, and is not rangefinder coupled, is that right?

    I understand some of the newer Voightlaenders ARE RF coupled.

    Victor

  13. #13
    Sean_Reid
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    Re: A Fast 28mm?

    The Ultron is an excellent lens though the 28 Summicron (current) is my favorite 28.

    The lower contrast of the Ultron can be an asset in contrasty lighting but its less effective lens coating can mean that Ultron 28 + IR cut filter + light source in the lens' field of view (which is wider than the M8's crop of same) can add up to significant flare. So the only condition under which I don't like the 28 Ultron is when working with both a filter and lighting sources in the frame (ie: chandelier lights in a dark room, etc.) Its important to remember, when watching for flare sources, that the lens sees its full FOV in such a way that flare can start before the M8 crops that image.

    That's the only real weakness I've encountered with it and the Ultron 35 has the same weakness.. Otherwise, its a great lens and I've had one for several years now.

    ----------------

    Hi Victor,

    The lens is RF-coupled as are most CV lenses. Exceptions are the 12, 15 and LTM (older) version of the 25.

    The LTM mount means that the 28 Ultron can very easily be coded using an LT-M8 adapter. LTM lenses, for the M8, are the next most convenient thing to Leica-coded lenses.

    You've got some reading to catch up on. <G>

    Cheers,

    Sean
    Last edited by Sean_Reid; 21st March 2008 at 06:00.

  14. #14
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    Re: A Fast 28mm?

    ----------------

    Hi Victor,


    You've got some reading to catch up on. <G>

    Cheers,

    Sean[/QUOTE]


    THANKS Sean,


    You bet!. Been swamped, but thanks for the info. You may know I am a pack rat (if I did it better I guess I would call myself a collector! :-)
    I am interested esp in the 21mm and 28 differences. I think I may try to pick up a version anyway (I have the 2.0 and 2.8 Leica I just picked up from Gary)

    With a large photo-taking family (four by last count) I can somewhat justify.)

    Anyway, I was really impressed by the 21mm reviews you did. You are probably to only source of 'real world' review of these lenses. A great asset. More people would save (10 times the cost of your site with one smart purchase!)

    best regards
    Victor

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    Re: A Fast 28mm?

    Quote Originally Posted by gogopix View Post
    ----------------


    You bet!. Been swamped, but thanks for the info. You may know I am a pack rat (if I did it better I guess I would call myself a collector! :-)
    I am interested esp in the 21mm and 28 differences. I think I may try to pick up a version anyway (I have the 2.0 and 2.8 Leica I just picked up from Gary)

    With a large photo-taking family (four by last count) I can somewhat justify.)

    Anyway, I was really impressed by the 21mm reviews you did. You are probably to only source of 'real world' review of these lenses. A great asset. More people would save (10 times the cost of your site with one smart purchase!)

    best regards
    Victor
    If you are looking for a good copy of the CV21, I haven't gotten my act together yet to sell mine (bought the elmarit) but you can send me a PM. Sean has actually tested it (read the end of his review) and it is a good copy.

  16. #16
    Sean_Reid
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    Re: A Fast 28mm?

    Quote Originally Posted by gogopix View Post
    ---------------


    THANKS Sean,

    Anyway, I was really impressed by the 21mm reviews you did. You are probably to only source of 'real world' review of these lenses. A great asset. More people would save (10 times the cost of your site with one smart purchase!)

    best regards
    Victor
    Thanks Victor, I'm glad to hear it.

    Cheers,

    Sean

  17. #17
    Sean_Reid
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    Re: A Fast 28mm?

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    If you are looking for a good copy of the CV21, I haven't gotten my act together yet to sell mine (bought the elmarit) but you can send me a PM. Sean has actually tested it (read the end of his review) and it is a good copy.
    You're selling that lens? Are you sure you want to?

    Yes, its a good copy.

    Cheers,

    Sean

  18. #18
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    Re: A Fast 28mm?

    WooHOO!

    I just scored a used CV Ultron 28mm over at the RFF Classifieds! Like-new lens and B&W IR cut filter, shipped for $500 even. Guess I won't be getting a guitar this Spring.

  19. #19
    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
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    Re: A Fast 28mm?

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    If you are looking for a good copy of the CV21, I haven't gotten my act together yet to sell mine (bought the elmarit) but you can send me a PM. Sean has actually tested it (read the end of his review) and it is a good copy.
    skopar or "P"

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    Re: A Fast 28mm?

    Quote Originally Posted by gogopix View Post
    skopar or "P"
    I'm not home but I'm 99.999% sure it is the skopar (I assume P would be for pancake?). It is a screw mount. I haven't sent Sean an email but clearly from his post he doesn't think I should sell it .

  21. #21
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    Re: A Fast 28mm?

    Nice Stuart! I mean, what would a 28mm thread be without the infamous diner photo?
    Regards,

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    Re: A Fast 28mm?

    The 21mm Color Skopar is the only available version. Both the LTM and the M-mount are optically identical.

    FWIW, I've got an M-mount 21mm CV Skopar that'd I like to sell. I loves my LTM version.

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    Re: A Fast 28mm?

    Ah, OK- Sean calls the M-mount version of the Color Skopars the "P" version.

    So, I have a P and Terry has an LTM.

  24. #24
    Senior Member Daniel's Avatar
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    Re: A Fast 28mm?

    I'm still pondering on the 28mm lens, but I'm wondering if there is a significant difference between f2.8 and f2.0 in regards to shutter speed and depth of field.

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    Re: A Fast 28mm?

    Define "significant." On my 50/2 Heliar Classic, it's a full stop difference. That gets me to 1/30 from 1/15 in low light.

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    Re: A Fast 28mm?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maggie O View Post
    Define "significant." On my 50/2 Heliar Classic, it's a full stop difference. That gets me to 1/30 from 1/15 in low light.
    Thanks, this was helpful. I think this was my idea of significant.

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    Re: A Fast 28mm?

    w00t!!!

    Glad I could help!

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    Re: A Fast 28mm?

    i've not paid much attention to this before. i guess i've been pampered with too much mindless automation. anyway, i had no idea that there can be a real difference between f3.5 and f4.0.

    how about the ultron, is there a real difference in shutter speed between f1.9 and f2.0?

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    Re: A Fast 28mm?

    I don't have it yet!

    I'm guessing it might get me half a stop- say from 1/15 to 1/24. But that's me speculating, not reporting.

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    Re: A Fast 28mm?

    There is definitely a difference between f/3.5 and f/4...it is half a stop, but between f/1.9 and f/2 is not really detectable.

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    Re: A Fast 28mm?

    My Ultron shows zero fluctuation (over a range of EV values, pointing to different light sources) between f1.9 and f2.

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    Re: A Fast 28mm?

    The 28mm Ultron is in the house. Uncoded so far, waiting for my Milich adapter. It's definitely got that Ultron look that I'm familiar with, thanks to my 35mm Ultron.

  33. #33
    Sean_Reid
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    Re: A Fast 28mm?

    I wouldn't sell that copy if I were you. But yes it is a Skopar.

    Cheers,

    Sean

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