Decision: 35mm Lux ASPH vs CV 35/1.2 Nokton ASPH?

[akiralx]

Anyone else have experience with the CV then? Without first hand experience, I am fairly concerned about the focus shift issue, therefore leaning more toward the CV now. Or, am I making a mountain out of a molehill?

I have never used the 35 Summilux but often use the CV on my M8 - the size is not really an issue for me, it is only slightly larger than my 75mm Summicron.

Handles very well, short focus throw with nicely weighted ring, no tab. Easy to focus accurately. No focus shift I can detect.

 

[tonyroth]

I have a 35 lux ASPH that I purchased 8 years ago and it performs perfectly on my M9, no perceivable focus shift whatsoever, couldn't be happier with it. So much so that I am afraid to send it in for coding, maybe leica will screw it up as I am told they check lense callibration as part of the coding process. Instead I puchased the self coding kit, we'll see how that works out.

 

[woodyspedden]

I have owned both and still have my chrome silver 35 Lux asph. I have observed no significant focus shift on either of the chrome silver lenses I have owned.

The Nokton is a very fine lens and you can't beat it for the money. Still around $900 i believe. But the micro contrast doesn't compare to the 35 Lux and the overall rendering from the Lux is unique and wonderful. On the other hand a new lux will set you back around $3700 so it had better be special.

hope this helps

Woody

 

[Peter Klein]

I have both.

The focus shift on the Summilux is real, but it is not as bad as many people make it. From f/2 to 5.6, you can compensate simply by focusing at the front of the zone you want in focus. Or, for critical shots of people, focus on the tip of the nose instead of the eyes.

The Nokton is also a great lens. Not quite as scary sharp as the Summilux, but sharp enough. It doesn't have any focus shift for practical purposes. It does tend to color fringe where very bright highlights intersect with dark areas, so it's not so good in brightly backlit situations in sunlight. This, along with its size and weight makes it less of a general-purpose lens than the Summilux.

For some reason, the difference between f/1.2 and f/1.4 is not enough to make the M8's meter go to the next faster "notch" in shutter speed, so you end up with the same shutter speed as if you'd taken the shot at f/1.4, but the picture is a little brighter. To take full advantage of f/1.2, set the exposure compensation to 1/3 stop less than what you normally use. So if you normally set the M8 at minus 1/3, set it to minus 2/3 when using f/1.2.

 

[otumay]

Osman, I am originally from Istanbul and it was nice to find raki here in Chicago, just two blocks away from where I live We should get together sometime when I am back for vacation...
All the best,
Arsun

What a coincidence! Please inform me when you are to come here.
Best,
Osman

 

[s.agar]

After alignment of my camera (M8), not the lens, I get consistently good focus with the summilux 35mm at F1.4. I use it at F1.4 and f2 most of the time, with no obvious focus shift. It's a lens I can recommend without hesitation.

I had to return my 40/1.4 Nocton twice for focus alignment problems. So I'm hesitant with the CV lenses, especially because it's not possible to try these lenses before buying. (These are mostly available only over the internet).

 

[woodyspedden]

I can't say for sure as my sample size is too small but the Chrome Silver lenses just don't seem to have the focus issues attributable to the black versions. The focus helicoid in the silver chrome version seems to help in some ways to avoid this issue. I have seen any number of posters on various threads confirm this and as mentioned I have had two chrome silver versions with no front focus issue at all.

I also have the silver 28 cron, the 50 lux both asph and pre-asph and have had no issues with those as well. Finally the 21 Elmarit asph is also in silver chrome and have also no focus issues.

Only way to tell for sure that I know of is to take a ruler (I use the nicely printed version for Michael Tapes Lens Align but any ruler should do). I prop it up so that I can shoot at roughly a 45Degree angle. I set the focus at f 1.4 on the 35 and shoot an image and then simply move the aperture ring to get shots at 2.0, 2.8 etc and then look at the images to see if focus moved as a function of f stop. I think this is the simplest and most revealing way to check things out.

Am open to questions etc about the methodology.

Hope this helps

Woody

 

[francishmt]

I'd love to see more pictures from the CV35/1.2. From the few CV35 pics above, it seems like the CV renders a little cooler than the 35 Lux ASPH?

 

[Peter Klein]

This group on flickr is devoted to the 35/1.2 Nokton. Loads of pictures:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/nokton35/

 

[rchisholm]

I own and love the 35 1.2 nok... I sold my 35 Lux aspherical. The Lux was, well, too perfect for me. The nok has character. It is cooler than the lux. The bokeh is more refined as well.
My one caveat about the Nok - I have found a good deal of sample variation. I have owned 5 (#1 was great, sold it, wanted another. The next 3 sucked -- soft wide open, focus not calibrated. I gave up, then finally found a used chrome -- just like #1 again!)

 

[geesbert]

My very personal stupidity always makes me buy a voigtländer first, but the lust for the Leica glass isn't satisfied, so I end up buying the Leica.

28 Ultron, upgraded to a 28 summicron
35 Nokton, upgraded to a 35 summilux
50 collapsible heliar, upgraded to a elmar
and a few more of these pairs.

it's an expensive exercise, but it's a way to try out a focal length before you commit to the real thing.

although the voigtländers are really good lenses, they leave me cold.

 

[chrism]

I have had two CV 35/1.2 lenses and both were a little soft (actually, the current one is more than a little soft). My 35 Lux is extremely good and has little in the way of focus shift detectable. I have had a 35 Cron that front-focussed significantly and I'm awaiting a CV 35/1.4 just for fun. The real sharp 35 is the Summarit. A Leica owner could buy a Summarit 35 and a Summarit 75 and never need another lens.

Chris

 

[huztgas]

Further, the CV at 1.2 is a full stop faster than when set to 2. I would place the CV a distant second, technically to the Leica ASPH . I liked the "look" from the CV better than the Leica. The CV is better technically than my pre-lux by a lesser degree, but the "look" is not as good. Given the size difference, it was a no-brainer, and the used pre-lux was cheaper than the new CV.

Based on 10 being best:

Technically Leica ASPH is a 10, CV is a 7, pre-lux 6

"Look" pre-lux is a 10, CV 8, ASPH 6
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[thompsonkirk]

If, like huiztgas, you'd like to avoid a 'clinical' look, the 35 Nokton 1.2 pairs nicely with a pre-ASPH 35 Summicron - ver. 1 or 4.

Like geesbert, I bought CV lenses experimentally, in order to see which focal lengths felt right on M8. (Hard to chose in the 24/5-28-35 range.) Then I replaced them with Leitz/Leica lenses, preferring the older & less contrasty pre-ASPH ones designed by Walter Mandler. When M9 arrives next week I'll be using 28-35-50, same as with film bodies.

Only for the 35mm focal length have I hung onto a CV. My choice among 35s is a Summicron ver. 1 (from an M2), & I rely heavily on it in daylight. It's not very sharp wide open, so i use the 1.2 Nokton in lower light. I wouldn't want to heft its bulk/weight the rest of the time.

In image quality my Nokton is moderately sharp wide open, doesn't suffer focus shift, & occasionally offers bokeh circles that look like little balloons with overly-defined outlines. My low-light work is mostly street photography where low contrast is helpful, & where vision & a 'decisive moment' tend to trump technical values. But I wouldn't choose the 1.2 Nokton for landscapes, urbanscapes, portraits, &/or general use. It's neither as smooth as a pre-ASPH Leitz/Leica lens, nor as crisp as a contemporary ASPH.

Kirk

 

[innerimager]

Tonight I had the chance to try my 35 lux asph on my new M9. I already knew it did not exhibit focus shift enough to perceive any loss of critical sharpness on my M8, and this is absolutely the case on my M9. I have to say, I LOVE this lens on the M9! For one, the 35mm frame lines are the ones that "feel" best to me on the M9 with it's 0.66 magnification. I think any 35 will feel good on the M9. But the IQ is stunning, just the right amount of contrast and saturation, and extremely pleasing bokeh. Tack sharp at 1.4, 2.0, 2.8 and 4.0, didn't test beyond 4. (It's a black lens btw). I know there are a lot of great 35s to choose from, but the lux asph is superb on the M9! best...Peter

 

[canon5dshooter]

Post up some pictures please!

I'd like to see a comparison of the CV 35/1.2 vs 35/1.4. I seem to notice a bit more snap to the CV 35/1.4 files than what I am seeing with the 35/1.2.

Tonight I had the chance to try my 35 lux asph on my new M9. I already knew it did not exhibit focus shift enough to perceive any loss of critical sharpness on my M8, and this is absolutely the case on my M9. I have to say, I LOVE this lens on the M9! For one, the 35mm frame lines are the ones that "feel" best to me on the M9 with it's 0.66 magnification. I think any 35 will feel good on the M9. But the IQ is stunning, just the right amount of contrast and saturation, and extremely pleasing bokeh. Tack sharp at 1.4, 2.0, 2.8 and 4.0, didn't test beyond 4. (It's a black lens btw). I know there are a lot of great 35s to choose from, but the lux asph is superb on the M9! best...Peter

 

[thrice]

Only just had the chance to try my 35 lux on the M9 (since the M9 only just arrived). I see what I was missing out on (in terms of resolution) shooting with it on film!

Here's a link to the 100% file, I pushed the shadows a bit which is why there's a bit of noise there. My site tends to be slow for people outside Australia, so I apologise if that is the case.

 

[innerimager]

As requested, here are shots made Thursday with the 35 lux asph wide open, iso 1600, shutter speeds between 1/15-1/30. best...Peter

 

[mikel]

I had a chrome 35mm summilux asph and it had focus shift, even on film, since it is a property of the lens design. For very close subjects, anything just behind what I focused on was slightly out of focus at f1.4, and as I stopped down the focus shifted back but was covered by the depth of field. I found a black one and liked the lighter weight, and it behaves the same.

At least on film, the moment you are farther than 1 meter or so, depth of field covers any focus shift with the 35mm summilux asph. My impression- those of us who have used a 90mm f2, 75mm f1.4, or 50mm f1 know that little body movements are more often a problem than focus shift. If was shooting with a tripod, really close, it might be a concern, but for hand held and low light when I have to use f1.4, I might have different criteria for what is acceptable sharpness given the amount I enlarge prints.
Personally, I have yet to see a nice image ruined by focus shift.

My over-generalization: focus shift is of greater importance for those who enjoy images on a monitor and are using lenses wide open, close up, and at fast shutter speeds (day).

 

[mikel]

Francis, sorry for the side-note above on focus shift, but it may not be an important factor depending on how you like looking at photos and your criteria for what will ruin one.

I've used both, and I don't think you'll be disappointed with either from an image standpoint. I liked the short throw on the Nokton and the flare resistance. It's quite a bit bigger especially with the hood, but my copy rarely flared so I didn't use the hood. Unfortunately mine had some gritty-ness to the focus ring right out of the box, but that could be dealt with. If lens size isn't a problem, the Nokton is a dynamite deal.

The 35mm summilux asph is way more lens than I could ever effectively exploit, and if you own one long enough (I'll never sell mine), its price, over the long term, isn't that big of a deal.