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Thread: New to M8. Questions and M8 Workshop ?

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    Smile New to M8. Questions and M8 Workshop ?

    Hi all,
    I just get into the rangefinder family from Canon DSLR line. I am wondering how can I setup my M8 to take B&W pictures ? I look around Capture 1 software and there is no option for me to convert color pictures to B&W either. I use LR2 for my Canon and I know Capture1 has better DNG converter so I would like to stick with C1.

    Also, since I am new, does any one know any M8 workshop that I can attend somewhere by the west coast or Seattle, WA or Vancouer, BC Canada area ? I don't mind travelling a bit but hope not too far.. Even online M8 workshop is acceptable..

    Many thanks in advance..

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    Re: New to M8. Questions and M8 Workshop ?

    On the topic of B&W, the only way to get B&W images from the M8 (and with Canons too) is to use JPG. If you use JPG+DNG, you will see a B&W review image on the back, but if you then want to use the DNG for better quality, you need to do your own conversion.

    I don't know C1 very well, but the LR3 Beta shows a lot of promise, so if you can wait with some of this until spring 2010, you can probably stay with Lightroom. Then you can use any of the standard ways of generating B&W images.

    I don't know of any workshops in your area, sorry.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: New to M8. Questions and M8 Workshop ?

    carsten

    you should know better than to say this

    "the only way to get B&W images from the M8 (and with Canons too) is to use JPG."


    Absolute nonsense.... I have never used C1.. but i dont believe it doesn't have a B/W conversion option just like Lightroom, Aperture and every other bit of software i have ever seen.

    You can set up an M8 to shoot RAW with a B/w JPEG and then process the RAW file in the convertor of your choice. My resident Leica expert is currently in the bath.. but i am sure she can point you in the right direction

    K

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    Re: New to M8. Questions and M8 Workshop ?

    JFI Labs makes two sets of gorgeous black and white conversions for C!. one of them is various film tones, the other as if you were using a filter. they are both gorgeous and so reasonably priced, i recommend getting both.

    there is also an option under the ICC profiles that's called "Effects" and there are a few b/w filters in there. if you have trouble finding them, i can do a screen shot for you.
    Last edited by cam; 27th October 2009 at 16:00.

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    Re: New to M8. Questions and M8 Workshop ?

    Hi all, thanks for the comments ! CAM, where is the ICC profiles ? Are you referring to the user profile 1,2 3 4 ? I don't see any filters available there.. I only see ISO, EV, White Balance, Compression and Resolution. Coming from Canon world, I have to admin, the Leica M8 menu is not as intuitive as Canon for that aspect. Some screen shots about ICC profiles of where the filters are located in the menu will be highly appreciated. Also, if someone can point me how to made B&W conversion will be great !
    For M8 workshop, I can reach out a bit in US if there are some good one out there.. Thanks again.

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    Re: New to M8. Questions and M8 Workshop ?

    oris98

    Which version of Capture One are you using?

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    Re: New to M8. Questions and M8 Workshop ?

    You can absolutely converted to B&W from C1 via drop-down options under the camera profile, or even by simply de-saturating.


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    Re: New to M8. Questions and M8 Workshop ?

    Quote Originally Posted by oris98 View Post
    Hi all, thanks for the comments ! CAM, where is the ICC profiles ? Are you referring to the user profile 1,2 3 4 ? I don't see any filters available there.. I only see ISO, EV, White Balance, Compression and Resolution. Coming from Canon world, I have to admin, the Leica M8 menu is not as intuitive as Canon for that aspect. Some screen shots about ICC profiles of where the filters are located in the menu will be highly appreciated. Also, if someone can point me how to made B&W conversion will be great !
    For M8 workshop, I can reach out a bit in US if there are some good one out there.. Thanks again.
    sounds like you are confusing the M8 camera menus with the C1 menus:

    from the beginning: on the camera go to the SET menu and choose DNG+JPG, either BASIC or FINE, it doesn't matter. The camera will then write a DNG file and a JPEG file for every capture. We do this in order to gain a BW preview on the M8 LCD.

    Next go to the M8 MENU and under Colour Saturation choose Black+White.

    When you shoot now you will see a BW image on the M8 LCD.

    When you load your images into C1 you will see two thumbnails per image, the DNG in colour and the JPEG in BW. Unfortunately you cannot hide the JPEGS (that I know) like you can in Lr. In Lr you can set the preferences to treat RAW+JPEG as "one file" and only see the RAW DNG. They did this because as you know on Canon, at least up until the recent cameras with Picture Styles, you had to write JPEGS in order to see BW previews. Now on the many of the cameras Picture Styles don't need to write JPEGS unless you want them.

    So now you have the DNG in C1- as John Black showed in his screen capture, under the ICC Profile tab in the second "Q" looking menu you can select from "Effects" instead of profiles, and they have a BW conversion option or two. Or you can simply desaturate 100% on Saturation.

    Those are the basics. Goodluck.

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    Re: New to M8. Questions and M8 Workshop ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinparis View Post
    "the only way to get B&W images from the M8 (and with Canons too) is to use JPG."


    Absolute nonsense.... I have never used C1.. but i dont believe it doesn't have a B/W conversion option just like Lightroom, Aperture and every other bit of software i have ever seen.
    Please read my comment carefully again: the only way to get B&W images FROM THE M8 is to use JPG. Of course you can get it with whatever software you like, and I even went on to say so.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: New to M8. Questions and M8 Workshop ?

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Please read my comment carefully again: the only way to get B&W images FROM THE M8 is to use JPG. Of course you can get it with whatever software you like, and I even went on to say so.
    whatever way .. it still was a confusing and unclear answer to the original posters question

    K

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    Re: New to M8. Questions and M8 Workshop ?

    Hi all,
    Thanks for all the response.. I am using the Capture1 version 4.13 . It comes with my Leica D-Lux4. Under camera, I don't see any special profiles like you have from the screen shot. It only have the option : auto folder, autoselect new capture and Composite mode. No other option for me to change to B&W. However, the desatuation trick works.. I am not sure if version 4.13 has the camera profiles that you mentioned ?

    Also in the M8, I finally found the B&W option.. Thanks for everyone's suggestions..
    This is a very helpful forum !

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    Re: New to M8. Questions and M8 Workshop ?

    A lot of good advice here.

    I personally favor LR for processing because the work flow is faster. However, I do have C1-Pro on my Mac for use with some specific M8 or M9 files. LightRoom 3 is now available for download on the Adobe web site, and it looks promising. Since it is a beta version it hasn't been optimized yet, so it's a slow-poke compared to the current full version of LR2.

    Here is a few reasons I favor LR2, especially since I do a LOT of B&W conversions (like 500 or so a week) ...

    First off, there are a number of LR presets written for the M8, these are one button selections which you can then tweak with the LR controls. I have a couple of LR B&W Presets for the M8 ... which you can select when importing M8 files into LR so they all load into the LR library as B&Ws (but can be reverted to the original color when desired). Once you get a preferred general B&W conversion, you can make that the User Preset of your own.

    Perhaps more importantly, once a set of images is loaded into the Library, LR allows you to open any RAW, Tiff or Jpg file directly in Photoshop ... select any LR file and just key in command E (for edit), and the file immediately opens in PS without leaving LR.

    Why is this important (to me)?

    Because Photoshop is the most ubiquitous and deepest processing program there is. As such there are an amazing amount of actions and plug-ins available for it ... including a bunch written specifically for the M8. My current favorites are the set of PS actions offered by Jeff Ascough ...

    http://jeffascough.typepad.com/ascough_silver_actions/

    This set of actions includes some amazing B&W conversions with all sorts of subtile enhancements (like diffusion or condenser grain enhancement which is the closest thing to an analog film look I've found to date).

    Once you make PS enhancements, and close/save the file, it automatically goes back into the LR Library. No need to then open everything in Adobe Bridge or ACR to do PS work.

    Finally, LR directly offers tools not available on any other RAW processing program. In effect, you have darkroom type dodge and burn, selective enhancement, as well as isolated color controls, sharpening, contrast, cloning, etc., etc., ... that unlike PS are all non-destructive, and reversible. Currently, I now process 75% of my images without ever using anything other than LR.

    The M8 is a GREAT B&W camera ... the IR issue actually helps in many cases to make it an excellent B&W tool.

    Personally, I never used the B&W jpg option on LCD of the M8 ... IMO, and experience, LCDs aren't the best evaluative tools anyway. Good for avoiding gross errors, checking framing/composition and obvious exposure mistakes ... but a poor indicator of what the B&W image will really look like.

    -Marc

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    Re: New to M8. Questions and M8 Workshop ?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    there are a number of LR presets written for the M8
    I'm always on a look out for LR presets for M8. Do you have any suggestions for where I can download?

    Ascough's PS actions are great too. Highly recommended for anyone who doesn't have it! It's just that sometimes I just want to make a quick conversion and save the time doing round trip between PS and LR for images that I think are just "average" in my library.

    Thanks!

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    Re: New to M8. Questions and M8 Workshop ?

    Thanks Marc for all the hints and experience sharing !

    As you mentioned about MAC for photo editing, I personally had never worked with mac as I always been a PC man. Since I pickup photography as my new hobbie, I was looking around for a good monitor to show the true power of the Leica camera and lenses. I saw a Mac with a 24" LED monoitor with iPhoto running at BestBuy. Wow! picture after picture, I just keep picking up my draw from the ground The color and sharpness of each picture is fully expressed throught the Mac.. I also like the arrangement of iPhone which organizes related pictures as event and organized very nicely and easily. Couple questions:

    Can I use Mac monitor on PC ? The sales guy said, the Apple LED monitor can only be used buy MAC.. Is this true ? If not, are there any monitor that looks as good as the apple LED monitor in PC world ? People said 22" monitor is sharper than a 24" in the same category as the pixels are finer.

    Are there any picture organizing tools in the PC world that could organize pictures like iPhone ? Or is iPhone has a PC version ? Sorry for my ignorance as I know nothing about Mac.

    Thanks again...: salute:

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