Petition for an R10

[weinschela]

Live preview on a M9 is not possible as it uses CCD sensor. My understanding is live preview requires CMOS. I don't think Leica will alter the hot selling M9 just to please some former R users who want to use their R lenses. But what I don't understand is why Leica wouldn't either license out the R mount or contract for the manufacture of a camera with an R mount. The reasons appear to be commercial and not technical. Leica has a relatiionship with Panasonic but it may not be so good after the X1. Panasonic also does not produce a FF sensor. There are three manufacturers doing FF -- Canon, Nikon and Sony. If there is a relationship with Panasonic, Leica cannot also have one with Sony as Sony and Panasonic are bitter rivals. And I don't see either Nikon or Canon helping Leica to sell cameras that would allow R glass to be used. Why wouldn't they each prefer to sell their own glass? That leaves as a solution, licensing out the rights to the R mount to someone like Cosina, and having them build a SLR around the mount. Whether it would be FF or not would depend on the cost and availability of sensors from third parties. I don't think anyone ought to hold their breath.

 

[bensonga]

So I change my mind and say- a R10 would be great for those who own R-glass or like just manual focus.

That's exactly why I would be interested in an R10. I enjoy manual focus, have a few R-glass lenses and if they came out with an R10 that had IQ and build quality comparable to the better Canon, Nikon or Sony DSLRs, that would be good enough for me. It doesn't have to be light years better....just comparable IQ at a roughly comparable cost. I don't know how many 35mm shooters would even consider a system that didn't have autofocus anymore....but I'll bet there are still alot of Leica R owners who would go for it.

Gary

 

[carstenw]

If an R10 were to come out, it would almost certainly support new AF lenses, as well as the old. I think Leica simply doesn't have the R&D+production capacity for such a camera right now, at the low expected volumes it would bring in.

 

[Steen]

... at the low expected volumes it would bring in.

I'm not so sure that this is a given. I believe it is rather price sensitive.

Leicas strength is the optics.
If only Leica would start to be competitive pricewise and make affordable cameras with a partner, I still think they could win a substantial market share.

 

[carstenw]

I agree with your "if", but don't think that Leica can bring the prices down, given the operating tolerances, processes used, and so on. Not every process is amenable to high production levels. What we would probably get if Leica tried would be something like the Zeiss ZM, ZF, etc. lenses.

 

[thrice]

What we would probably get if Leica tried would be something like the Zeiss ZM, ZF, etc. lenses.

This is not such a bad thing I have a 25mm biogon ZM that is very nicely made (without some of the reassuring heft of my brass chrome lenses though). Their finders and optical performance cannot be questioned.

 

[Vivek]

What we would probably get if Leica tried would be something like the Zeiss ZM, ZF, etc. lenses.

Hey, I would be mounting Soviet lenses on them- if- (not gonna happen) Leica would make such cameras.:ROTFL:

 

[gogopix]

Live preview on a M9 is not possible as it uses CCD sensor. My understanding is live preview requires CMOS. I don't think Leica will alter the hot selling M9 just to please some former R users who want to use their R lenses. But what I don't understand is why Leica wouldn't either license out the R mount or contract for the manufacture of a camera with an R mount. The reasons appear to be commercial and not technical. Leica has a relatiionship with Panasonic but it may not be so good after the X1. Panasonic also does not produce a FF sensor. There are three manufacturers doing FF -- Canon, Nikon and Sony. If there is a relationship with Panasonic, Leica cannot also have one with Sony as Sony and Panasonic are bitter rivals. And I don't see either Nikon or Canon helping Leica to sell cameras that would allow R glass to be used. Why wouldn't they each prefer to sell their own glass? That leaves as a solution, licensing out the rights to the R mount to someone like Cosina, and having them build a SLR around the mount. Whether it would be FF or not would depend on the cost and availability of sensors from third parties. I don't think anyone ought to hold their breath.

Not true; the P65+ is a CCD sensor (Dalsa) and has it. The P45+ had it as well and was a Kodak.

If Leica can solve FF on a RF camera (when no one thought ANY digital was possible) they can certainly solve this.

Victor

PS But I still like an optical solution for the S2 best. There is ALSO the possibility that the adapter for an S2 could be AF!
Yes, focal legnth correction but with a range, so you set the approximate distancea and the AF adapter does the rest. This was how some of the Zeiss lenses worked, with TWO focus rings. The back lens/group always does the final focus. The adapter would link to the AF of thje S2 as a S2 lens. It would just have, say an R modular in front of it!

This is a REAL possibility. Leica, are you listening? (BTW, I am a physicist, so I know it is theoretically possible. I am not an engineer, so I am not sure it wouldn't cost $50,000! LOL

..and then of course, there is the "Visoflex2" solution. With less room the mirror would not be FF, but hell, I'll take center focus! (say half size since there is only about 1/2 in for the M>R registry.

Naaaa... the S2 adapting, autofocusing lens is the best solution.

Leica, get with it. I will ask only a small royalty as I own the patent on this.

Oh and while you are at it, add body stabilization for ALL lenses in the S2 Mark II...

 

[Vivek]

Not true; the P65+ is a CCD sensor (Dalsa) and has it. The P45+ had it as well and was a Kodak.

Yup. FujiS3UVIR had liveview as well.

Off the sensor metering should also possible. A matter of power management and matching electronics.

 

[bensonga]

To keep the enthusiam up.....I think we need a proper mock-up of the R10 to drool over. This one was provided some time ago here at GetDPI, courtesy of Fotografz. It's pinned up on my cube wall here in the office.

Gary

 

[carstenw]

Sigh. What I wouldn't give...

 

[doug]

Sigh. What I wouldn't give...

Me too.

 

[Steen]

She's a bonnie lassie

 

[robertparker]

I would love to see a R10 or other camera which was the size of an R6 with around 18mp full frame. I have a large selection of R lenses because I love the quality of construction generally small form factor and image quality. I accept that Canon and Nikon produce some excellent lenses but I sold all my Canon kit even though my 135 f2 appeared sharper than my 100 2.8 apo and though great for pixel peeping I couldn't live with the lack of subtle colour variations in a scene. This was the same for the Canon 85 1.8 and generally disappointed. The Leica lenses on my 1ds Mk11 transformed the images but to see the differences you have to print. For Nikon had a D3 and was amazed at the abilities of the camera but the pictures didn't do it for me.So totally understand the cameras appeal from a professional standpoint but as a hobbyist love the interaction with manual lenses and having a camera that doesn't shout professional so sold my DMR and love my M8 but looking forward to a Leica R solution in a smaller form factor than the DMR to compliment my M8. So would be happy to sign a petition for an R10.

With kind regards to all and a Happy New year
Robert

Leica R 19 2.8, 28 2.8 35 2, 35 1.4, 50 1.4, 80 1.4, 90 2 apo, 100 2.8 apo, 180 2.8 apo, 280 4 apo, 105-280, R 6.2 and Leica M8 system, Hasselblad H3d 22 system and panasonic GF1

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Might have better luck getting a date with a Victoria secret model. AIN'T gonna happen.

And I'm a dead in the wool optimist

 

[Schmiddi]

Not true; the P65+ is a CCD sensor (Dalsa) and has it. The P45+ had it as well and was a Kodak.

BUT: MF-backs have a very different live-view, as I understand - you get a frame rate around 1fps (simply the speed of normal picture read out). That will be OK for a studio setup to do manual focus for table top - but it's far away from the 25+ fps we see on 35mm-live view (and you will definitely need that speed for an AF-system based on the sensor...). So there IS a difference between CCD and CMOS at this point.

Andreas

 

[robertparker]

If Leica is not going to produce an R10 then is there a company that can alter the forth coming Canon 1ds mk1v or Nikon D3X to have a Leica R mount rather than using lens adapters and can operate without stop down. I'm in the market but would prefer the possible Nikon 700x or Sony 900 without the current anti aliasing filter for camera size.There has to be a possibility for what must be the best slr lenses ever produced.

With kind regards

Robert

 

[sinwen]

If Leica had to come with a R10 it should have been done years ago.... they didn't .... and I believe they never will.
Anyway if it is to propose a 7000+$ just to fix my R glasses, forget it !
I carry on using my Leica film gear , M & R, and will probably never get digital with Leica.
I could understand the prices when the cameras were "all mechanical", but for electronics it has to be priced 1/3rd of it to start to think about it as a possibility.
People, and I am in, want no hassle easy to carry light with comprehensive possibilities. That the reason the Olympus and Pana are selling well , so well in fact that many have their DSLR sleeping on the shelf. This is a new handling shift which is getting very important when choosing.
In that respect the M9 is still in the game but they should realise that quickly and propose a new system, call it R if you want, some sort of FF pana GF1 using M glasses.
That would be a winner and Pana can help them.

 

[iopet]

i'm also looking forward to a r10 too, hate the size of eos 5d mark2:deadhorse:

 

[thrice]

i'm also looking forward to a r10 too, hate the size of eos 5d mark2:deadhorse:

I doubt an R10 would be any smaller.

I had an R8 and it was only a little smaller than the 5D Mark II.