X1 Production Model Reviews Coming

[Mark Gowin]

MR on LuLa has a production model X1 for evaluation. He expects to publish his review next week.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/whatsnew/

I am looking forward to this review and others on the X1. I was impressed with the X1 when I tried it at PhotoPlus. If the image quality and ISO performance is as good as I expect, then I will be getting one.

FWIW, I do think its overpriced, but Leica is in a unique position with the X1. If you want a pocketable APS-C camera with a great lens, then its the only option out there - pay the price or do without.

Mark

 

[cam]

FWIW, I do think its overpriced, but Leica is in a unique position with the X1. If you want a pocketable APS-C camera with a great lens, then its the only option out there - pay the price or do without.

unless Ricoh beats them to it... which, personally, i'm hoping for.

as cute/sexy as the X1 is, it is too pricey for a lens that slow, IMO. even more so as i am not a fan of the Elmarit's draw, much preferring the Lux and the Cron.

 

[jonoslack]

HI Mark
Thank you for that
Cam - I hope you're well. Is there any likelihood of Ricoh doing something? If so, then it's a definite 'wait for'

 

[Mark Gowin]

I am not eager to pay what I think is too much for the X1. I hope there is something too the Ricoh and there is an announcement of specs, price, and availability soon. I have been wanting a camera like the X1 for years and don't want to wait much longer for it. if the Leica is good and available then I will pay the price now rather than wait another several months for something else to materialize.

I had the Leica 28mm Elmarit ASPH for my M8 and really liked the images it produced. I sold it to buy the 28 Cron but I am not sure I like the Cron that much better other than the extra stop. So I have high hopes for the 24 Elmarit ASPH in the X1.

Jono, perhaps you can persuade Leica to give you an X1 for review. I enjoyed your M9 review and photographs.

Mark

 

[jonoslack]

I am not eager to pay what I think is too much for the X1. I hope there is something too the Ricoh and there is an announcement of specs, price, and availability soon. I have been wanting a camera like the X1 for years and don't want to wait much longer for it. if the Leica is good and available then I will pay the price now rather than wait another several months for something else to materialize.

I don't mind the speed of the lens . .. but 35mm isn't really my favorite, but I am tempted

I had the Leica 28mm Elmarit ASPH for my M8 and really liked the images it produced. I sold it to buy the 28 Cron but I am not sure I like the Cron that much better other than the extra stop. So I have high hopes for the 24 Elmarit ASPH in the X1.

I did exactly the same thing (swapped the elmarit for the 'cron). I do really like the cron, but I'm not sure that it was a good way to spend a grand!

If the X1 lens is good I'm going to find it hard to resist!

Jono, perhaps you can persuade Leica to give you an X1 for review. I enjoyed your M9 review and photographs.

Mark

Thank you - I wish! It would be fun to have one to play with for a month or so, but I don't think it's going to happen.

 

[nei1]

:clap:

unless Ricoh beats them to it... which, personally, i'm hoping for.

:clap:

 

[cam]

i know i am totally politically incorrect, but the micro 4/3 cams aren't doing it for me... i,too, am looking forward to the APS-C sensor size, Mark.

and mea culpa, Jono, for making you waste that grand -- but i still much prefer the Cron. just as, frankly, i prefer the look of the old Nocti to the new -- it all comes down to taste and i am obviously more interested in character than perfection. i also look for a draw that works best for black and white (and, yes, Neil, i PP from RAW -- another mea culpa).

i also really really like to shoot fast lenses wide-open. for low-light obviously, but also for the look. is this what i want in a smaller camera? is this how i'll use it? i don't honestly know... i do know that i resent the price-point of the X1 without having that option.

Ricoh supposedly has an announcement next week and i am waiting with bated breath. for usability, i do love Ricohs. as for what the actual camera will be, i've seen rumours of just about everything under the sun. the only constant is the APS-C sensor with interchangeable lenses. what those are and how it works, i have no clue. and, whilst i am not claiming that Ricoh lenses are better than Leica M's, i have been very content with those in the GRD's.

if Ricoh can come up with the goods for less money, interchangeable lenses, and excellent usability, then, well, i don't really need the red dot.

i am eagerly looking forward to both sets of reviews coming out because never say never. i just know that while the X1 had sex appeal, i was less than impressed with the few seconds i had it in my hands. not that it really counts -- it was a pre-production model so the slow/bad focusing and funky metering i'm sure will be evened out.

 

[Martin S]

I handled an X1 at the Photo Plus Expo several weeks ago. No pictures allowed since it was obviously a prototype with early firmware.

First impression - very light, and small. Didn't appear to be typically Leica in weight, and feel. I rather liked the analog dial controls, and pop up hemispherical flash.

Completely subjective opinion - could it be worth $2K????

I need to see some results.


Martin

 

[John Black]

If the X-1 had a 35mm Lux ASPH lens, then I think it would be a very popular camera. $2k for F2.8 just doesn't do it for me. The Ricoh could be interesting - especially if it has a built-in viewfinder of decent performance/size. I read somewhere that the lenses may be from Pentax. That's a rumor, nothing more.

 

[jonoslack]

HI Cam

i know i am totally politically incorrect, but the micro 4/3 cams aren't doing it for me... i,too, am looking forward to the APS-C sensor size, Mark.

They aren't doing it for me either (even though I really want to like them). But I don't think for a moment that APS-c is going to be an improvement . . the difference in sensor size compared to the little sensors of the D-lux 4 and GRD is insignificant.

and mea culpa, Jono, for making you waste that grand -- but i still much prefer the Cron. just as, frankly, i prefer the look of the old Nocti to the new

No No - I wasn't saying that I regretted the decision . . just that I wasn't sure it was worth a grand. Life being as it is, almost immediately after I said that, the rain cleared the sun came out, and I dashed out with the M9 and 28 'cron . . . and it was wonderful!

Anyway, I'm much too arrogant to ever blame anyone else for a decision I made! :ROTFL:

-- it all comes down to taste and i am obviously more interested in character than perfection. i also look for a draw that works best for black and white (and, yes, Neil, i PP from RAW -- another mea culpa).

Interesting how nice the little 35 summarit is.

Ricoh supposedly has an announcement next week and i am waiting with bated breath. for usability, i do love Ricohs. as for what the actual camera will be, i've seen rumours of just about everything under the sun. the only constant is the APS-C sensor with interchangeable lenses. what those are and how it works, i have no clue. and, whilst i am not claiming that Ricoh lenses are better than Leica M's, i have been very content with those in the GRD's.

Quite right - and as you say, the usability is really second to none. My issue is that I want something which will go in a pocket and have great IQ. A Ricoh the size of the GF1 with an APS c sensor won't float my boat (I may as well take the M9). This is the temptation of the X1 . . that it will fit in a pocket.

if Ricoh can come up with the goods for less money, interchangeable lenses, and excellent usability, then, well, i don't really need the red dot.

Well, if it's APS-c, then it would have to be spectacularly good to be an M9 replacement, and if it has interchangeable lenses and an APS-c sensor, then I can't really see how it can be anything like as small as an X1 (could be wrong of course).

i am eagerly looking forward to both sets of reviews coming out because never say never. i just know that while the X1 had sex appeal, i was less than impressed with the few seconds i had it in my hands. not that it really counts -- it was a pre-production model so the slow/bad focusing and funky metering i'm sure will be evened out.

We live in exciting times!

All the very best.

 

[cam]

They aren't doing it for me either (even though I really want to like them). But I don't think for a moment that APS-c is going to be an improvement . . the difference in sensor size compared to the little sensors of the D-lux 4 and GRD is insignificant.

i'm not sure, either, which is still why i'm somewhat tempted by the GRDIII -- maybe small sensor is enough? maybe that's all i'm looking for to complement my M? i honestly haven't decided yet... my heart was broken when the Sigma turned out to be such a dog as i thought the Foveon sensor was the cat's meow.

No No - I wasn't saying that I regretted the decision . . just that I wasn't sure it was worth a grand. Life being as it is, almost immediately after I said that, the rain cleared the sun came out, and I dashed out with the M9 and 28 'cron . . . and it was wonderful!

Anyway, I'm much too arrogant to ever blame anyone else for a decision I made! :ROTFL:

you are an arrogant little ----, but i did push you that extra inch

Interesting how nice the little 35 summarit is.

i have 3 35's! not looking, not thinking about any others. my ears are sealed. i have too many other focal lengths to lust after, not to mention cameras to save up for... you selling that BP M9 (cheaply) btw when your grey comes in?

Quite right - and as you say, the usability is really second to none. My issue is that I want something which will go in a pocket and have great IQ. A Ricoh the size of the GF1 with an APS c sensor won't float my boat (I may as well take the M9). This is the temptation of the X1 . . that it will fit in a pocket.

the Ricoh is rumoured to be the size of the GRD/GX series, though, so it would most definitely be pocketable. sexy? well, nothing could be as sexy as you, Jono...

seriously, though, size is a huge issue for me as well. i'm looking to use it the times i don't want to lug the M for whatever reason. when it reaches a certain mass, why bother?

Well, if it's APS-c, then it would have to be spectacularly good to be an M9 replacement, and if it has interchangeable lenses and an APS-c sensor, then I can't really see how it can be anything like as small as an X1 (could be wrong of course).

did i ever say it would/could be as good as an M9??? the camera i am looking for is a companion, not a replacement.

We live in exciting times!

that we do! unfortunately, my eyes are much bigger than my pocketbook, so i need to find that "pocket" camera i'll be happy with that suits my needs whilst i save up for the M9/M10...

 

[glenerrolrd]

Mark and I got a chance to spend some serious time with the X1 at PhotoPlus in NYC. We saw a number of large prints and talked with a few Leica reps that had used the camera. I think the image quality will be a lot like the Nikon D90 with a Leica 24/2.8 asph ....so I think it will be exceptional. The Leica executive that took us through the camera said that eventually they expect to have a wider lens but that the issue is the same as with the M . The angle of incident requires micro lenses to go wider and maintain the quality they want.

If you look at the D90 you get performance similar to an M8 with a +1- 1 1/2 EV. The Leica rep confirmed this based on his experience and of course you have the 24/2.8asph lens. In the interview with the Leica chief lens designer he stated that the X1 24 is based on the design of the M lens.

I think the performance will be quite good all around and much better than any other small camera .

The handling is the other issue as many cameras have failed because of weak autofocus performance or poor handling. For me manual focus means hyperfocus and you can do this quite quickly on a scale on the LCD activated by the focus preference button. Auto focus had several modes but I liked that you could see the green light (in focus) while looking through and external finder. I felt with a little practice this camera could be great for street. I look forward to testing the speed of the face recognition mode as it could be useful for street action. (most likely though it will spot for me).

As to pairing it up with an M ..this is a camera you could have with you always. Nothing compares to working with two M bodies and fast lenses for street work. There are situations where I would like to be even more discrete and maybe not be carrying quite so much $$$ around at night.

I would have liked a faster lens and maybe a little wider like a 28mm equivalent but this camera is pretty close based on the specs .

We did complain about the camera being grey paint as a real tool for street should be black...so some tape would be required. :ROTFL:

 

[Mark Gowin]

Roger, you bring up details I forgot to mention about our meeting with Leica at PhotoPlus. One of the things you mention that is important to me is speed of the camera (e.g., short shutter lag, quick auto focus, etc.). All black body would be nice as well.

 

[francishmt]

Does the X1 has image stabilizer? For some reason, popflash seems to indicate that in their ad.

http://www.popflash.com/index.php?p=product&id=4316&parent=0

 

[Mark Gowin]

You guys got me researching the Ricoh rumors. Interesting times indeed. Maybe we will know more next week.

 

[Mark Gowin]

Does the X1 has image stabilizer? For some reason, popflash seems to indicate that in their ad.[/url]

It does have some sort of electronic image stabilization. I haven't been able to get any specific details of how it works or if it works. It is not mechanical stabilization of lens or sensor.

 

[francishmt]

It does have some sort of electronic image stabilization. I haven't been able to get any specific details of how it works or if it works. It is not mechanical stabilization of lens or sensor.

Interesting.... electronic IS that is not on lens or sensor. Somehow the brochure doesn't even mention it!

 

[Terry]

HI Cam

But I don't think for a moment that APS-c is going to be an improvement . . the difference in sensor size compared to the little sensors of the D-lux 4 and GRD is insignificant.

Here is a graphic of sensor sizes. Copied from Digital outback. The D-lux 4 has approximately a 5x crop factor vs. 2x vs. 1.5x. There is actually a huge difference between the d-lux4/GRD vs. either 4/3 or APS-c.

On this chart the d-lux 4 is slightly bigger than the 1/1.8 and smaller than the 2/3 sensor that was in the Digilux 2

 

[monza]

Thanks for the report Roger. This is what I was hoping for in the X1. As I have mentioned in previous conversations, I just hope they actually can PRODUCE them.

Mark and I got a chance to spend some serious time with the X1 at PhotoPlus in NYC. We saw a number of large prints and talked with a few Leica reps that had used the camera. I think the image quality will be a lot like the Nikon D90 with a Leica 24/2.8 asph ....so I think it will be exceptional. The Leica executive that took us through the camera said that eventually they expect to have a wider lens but that the issue is the same as with the M . The angle of incident requires micro lenses to go wider and maintain the quality they want.

If you look at the D90 you get performance similar to an M8 with a +1- 1 1/2 EV. The Leica rep confirmed this based on his experience and of course you have the 24/2.8asph lens. In the interview with the Leica chief lens designer he stated that the X1 24 is based on the design of the M lens.

I think the performance will be quite good all around and much better than any other small camera .

The handling is the other issue as many cameras have failed because of weak autofocus performance or poor handling. For me manual focus means hyperfocus and you can do this quite quickly on a scale on the LCD activated by the focus preference button. Auto focus had several modes but I liked that you could see the green light (in focus) while looking through and external finder. I felt with a little practice this camera could be great for street. I look forward to testing the speed of the face recognition mode as it could be useful for street action. (most likely though it will spot for me).

As to pairing it up with an M ..this is a camera you could have with you always. Nothing compares to working with two M bodies and fast lenses for street work. There are situations where I would like to be even more discrete and maybe not be carrying quite so much $$$ around at night.

I would have liked a faster lens and maybe a little wider like a 28mm equivalent but this camera is pretty close based on the specs .

We did complain about the camera being grey paint as a real tool for street should be black...so some tape would be required. :ROTFL:

 

[ashrafazlan]

AA filter, I hope it has none. I've been with Nikon digital bodies for a long time, and the newer sensors (especially the one in my D700) really doesn't have that pixel sharpness I get from foveon sensors (those without AA filters)