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Thread: X1 samples

  1. #101
    Senior Member kevinparis's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    Amin

    where do you get the idea that the X1 is the same size as a DP2 - its wider than e-p1

    at 113mm60mm50mm the DP2 is the same height as the x1, 10mm narrower and 10mm deeper - though that does seem to include the lens.

    As for the phrase considerably - I do tend to use it where the comparisons are tangible such as the X1 is considerably smaller than a M9.... or a X1 is considerably more expensive than e-p1

    cheers

    K

  2. #102
    Senior Member Amin's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinparis View Post
    As for the phrase considerably - I do tend to use it where the comparisons are tangible such as...
    The last thing I have to say on this topic is that my least productive time spent in photography forums is that spent in exchanges with those
    who believe that their subjective impressions apply for everyone else.

  3. #103
    Senior Member kevinparis's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    Amin

    I don't recall offering any subjective impressions.

    I merely responded for the benefit of the readers of the thread to your assertion that the x1 was in some way significantly smaller than the micro 4/3rd camera - I would think most people would read the phrase 'considerably' as indicating a difference that was significant.

    I merely tried to illustrate through visual references that the cameras were all of similar dimensions.

    I am not as knowledgeable as some members of this forum when it comes to the all technical nuances of photography so therefore I can't always filter the genuine fact from the ill or otherwise informed opinion, but when someone makes a misleading statement about something I do have knowledge of I will correct it

    K

  4. #104
    wbrandsma
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    Re: X1 samples

    A camera 2k and then we are debating the dimensions? I can't follow it anymore. If this is photography I loose my interest.

  5. #105
    Senior Member kevinparis's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    yeah wouter

    all a bit silly... normal service will be resumed soon

    K

  6. #106
    Senior Member Amin's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Mosley View Post
    ... I just don't think I could cope with that lens - too slow, too fragile looking, too limited.
    Personally, I've realized that I don't want to be limited to any one lens, which is the main reason I went with Micro Four Thirds over the Sigma DP2 despite my overall preference for the image quality from the Sigma.

  7. #107
    wbrandsma
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    Re: X1 samples

    For me too, Kevin. I cherish your 10D with older legacy lenses and will play with that tomorrow.

  8. #108
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    Re: X1 samples

    Quote Originally Posted by wbrandsma View Post
    A camera 2k and then we are debating the dimensions? I can't follow it anymore. If this is photography I loose my interest.

    Ha! Who said the X1 has anything to do with photography?

    Just admire the craftsmanship, the simplicity, the porsche design, the dp revs images,.....

    Have you seen a more beautiful flash than the one in the X1?

    Seriously beautiful. I am surprised that isn't talked about more.

    Next Mars mission rovers should pay attention.
    Last edited by Vivek; 7th November 2009 at 12:59.

  9. #109
    wbrandsma
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    Re: X1 samples

    Maybe instead of the flash a summicron lens would be worth the 2k for me. But I don't have the money and if I do so I wouldn't buy the X1 either. LOL, craftmanship and dp revs images!!!

  10. #110
    nei1
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    Re: X1 samples

    If the new ricoh allows me to clean the sensor myself then even if I never buy another lens than the 50mm equiv Ill be happy.The dp2 which has,like the X1 ,an extendable lens must suck in dust,no?Wouter I remember you liking the gx200,which looks a very fine camera,is dust on the sensor a problem?
    I have to say that this new ricoh shows a lot of promise,have my fingures crossed for ricoh and of course for all of us that would enjoy such a camera.

  11. #111
    wbrandsma
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    Re: X1 samples

    The GX200 is a very reliable camera, Neil. Ricoh sent me one in the summer of 2008 to replace my GX100. My GX100 did perform better than a Dyson, but I have had absolutely no problems with the GX200. Hope to update you when I receive a test sample of the new Ricoh.

  12. #112
    nei1
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    Re: X1 samples

    Quote Originally Posted by wbrandsma View Post
    Hope to update you when I receive a test sample of the new Ricoh.

    Cant think of anyone better to test it Wouter,looking forward to what you have to say,...Neil

  13. #113
    wbrandsma
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    Re: X1 samples

    Thank you Neil. I really hope they do come with a 40 or 50mm equivalent, just for you.

  14. #114
    Senior Member Amin's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    FWIW, here's what DPR had to say about the size/weight issue (source):



    Those specifications are useful because they include the relevant pancake lenses in the size and weight listings.

    Another thing to keep in mind is that despite its smaller body size, the X1 sensor is larger than 4/3 by approximately the same increment as 1.3x crop is to APS-C (or full frame to 1.3x) and will likely enjoy a small advantage over 4/3 when it comes to dynamic range and detail versus noise.
    Last edited by Amin; 7th November 2009 at 17:16.

  15. #115
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    Re: X1 samples

    Oh Dear

    This thread is starting to look and feel like something out of the LUF!

    Please go back to keeping our treasure here a critical path but always with respect and caring for others feelings. It is what makes us different.

    You can always represent an opinion or point of view without discrediting the other persons perspectives.

    This is not my forum but I care dearly for it. Let's get back on track.......shall we?

    Best

    Woody

  16. #116
    Senior Member kevinparis's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    amin

    OK i surrender... x1 is considerably lighter....

    :-)

    no hard feelings

    K

  17. #117
    Senior Member Amin's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    Kevin, certainly no hard feelings!

    Getting back on the topic, my consideration of the X1 ended when I took delivery of the Lumix 20 and the Lumix 7-14. Those two lenses really make the Micro Four Thirds system for me, and I have a hard time imagining a single focal length, fixed lens camera that would get me to switch.

    The DPR samples are disappointing, but I agree with others in this thread that the bokeh samples are limited (and that any lens can be made to look bad in such shots) and that more samples and RAW conversions are needed to really understand the image quality potential of the X1.

  18. #118
    Senior Member kevinparis's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    amin

    alls cool

    i just wish somebody could work out how to do a Rollei 35 or Olympus XA1 in digital form... that would be fun... full frame fixed lens and a rangefinder that would fit in any pocket

    Cheers
    K

  19. #119
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    Re: X1 samples

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinparis View Post
    i just wish somebody could work out how to do a Rollei 35 or Olympus XA1 in digital form... that would be fun... full frame fixed lens and a rangefinder that would fit in any pocket

    Cheers
    K
    a sensor with 12,000,000 microlenses ????

  20. #120
    Senior Member kevinparis's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    terry

    why not... in our lifetime we have seen the number of transistors on a chip go from dozens to millions

    apparently with the new EXMOR sensor the boffins have just realised that putting the wiring in front of the sensors was a bad idea.

    maybe with smart correction in software you dont need microlenses... maybe 6 mega pixels is enough... maybe there is another mechanism to read the image.. laser scanning a ground glass screen.. who frigging knows

    but a digital XA would be way cool.... almost as cool as a Digital CL

    love and peace

    K

  21. #121
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    Re: X1 samples

    Kevin,
    I'm with you. It was a bit of a joke after just having a conversation with someone over at DPReview that didn't like the fact that in m4/3 there are lens corrections baked in on the wide lenses and the lenses are therefore inferior to those from the "old days". In the m4/3 format a complicated sensor like the M8/M9 is probably CURRENTLY cost prohibitive. I'm sure in time these issues will be sorted out and the technology will exist.

  22. #122
    Senior Member kevinparis's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    cheers terry

    sitting here with very late night drink trying to figure out how to patent my laser scanning a ground glass screen idea :-)

    all the best from Les Paris Deux
    K

  23. #123
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    Re: X1 samples

    All the size arguments are interesting (glad you sorted yourselves out).

    At the risk of starting it all again, it seems to me that there is a very crucial size with respect to the size of one's pocket.

    For instance, the EP-1 with a pancake will go in most coat pockets without producing an unsightly bulge . . . with the kit lens it won't.

    It's always struck me in this context that depth is the most significant measurement rather than width or height, and clearly the X1 does have some advantage here.

    As for the samples - they looked like dpreview samples to me - adequate and uninspiring :sleep006::sleep006: It would seem unfair on Leica to construe anything further than that the camera does work!

    Let's face it, at this stage there have been cameras which have been written off, and turned into classics . . . and vice versa.

    Just this guy you know

  24. #124
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    Jack and I will have a X1 in our hands on 12/9 along with a S2 . Hopefully we can provide some samples that are better.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  25. #125
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    Re: X1 samples

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    For instance, the EP-1 with a pancake will go in most coat pockets without producing an unsightly bulge . . . with the kit lens it won't.
    i like unsightly bulges.

    As for the samples - they looked like dpreview samples to me - adequate and uninspiring :sleep006::sleep006: It would seem unfair on Leica to construe anything further than that the camera does work!
    DPR always does have terrible sample images, that's a given -- i expect them to be awful. the processing as well...

    but it doesn't change the character of the sensor/lens combo. the lens speed has disappointed me from the announcement and the pictures shown only deepened that. yes, the high ISO looked good (i know the sensor and am accepting that proper processing will improve what was shown), so the speed is moot for some.

    what i did not like was the draw of the lens and the unpleasant bokeh. if i am looking to get a camera with a larger sensor, i would like to use it to get shallower DOF and separation, rather than having to stop down so the bokeh doesn't drive me mad. in which case, i see very little reason to buy a larger sensor unless high ISO is my paramount need.

    i touched this camera, i fondled it, and, yes, i fell in love with it's sexy looks. it had, on paper, almost everything i was looking for -- except the slow lens. in the hand, it felt perfect and, yes, would easily go into my pocket or purse...

    but back again to that lens.... i've been spoiled. Leica has spoiled me (and not all my lenses are fast -- i still madly love the 21/3.4 SA). and, in this instance, Leica has let me down.

  26. #126
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    Re: X1 samples

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    As for the samples - they looked like dpreview samples to me - adequate and uninspiring :sleep006::sleep006: It would seem unfair on Leica to construe anything further than that the camera does work!
    Oh look, you went and injected reality and pragmatism into this thread.

  27. #127
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    Re: X1 samples

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    i like unsightly bulges.
    Surely not Cam . . .you like sightly bulges


    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    but back again to that lens.... i've been spoiled. Leica has spoiled me (and not all my lenses are fast -- i still madly love the 21/3.4 SA). and, in this instance, Leica has let me down.
    Well, superficially I agree with your comments - all I'm doing is putting a slight 'wait and see' on the issue of the bokeh, there aren't many examples, and sometimes things turn out differently.

    On the other hand, if it's f2.8 and has crappy bokeh as well . . . . then it won't be for me either!

    Just this guy you know

  28. #128
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    Re: X1 samples

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    Oh look, you went and injected reality and pragmatism into this thread.

    I'm really sorry - I realise that this is inexcusable in any discussions about Leica

    Just this guy you know

  29. #129
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    Re: X1 samples

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post

    I'm really sorry - I realise that this is inexcusable in any discussions about Leica

  30. #130
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    Re: X1 samples

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post

    I'm really sorry - I realise that this is inexcusable in any discussions about Leica
    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    HI Terry
    Well, it's true isn't it. I think I know why too:

    Basically, trying to justify buying an X1 is like trying to justify buying a 911 - there are lots of other things which get the job done more sensibly and much more cheaply.

    the $100,000 (or do I mean $2000) question is whether the X1 has enough perzang to make the extra expense worth it. Of course, for some the beauty of the pop up flash and the elegant body and menus will be enough - others may want a little more . . . some may actually want some sort of functional or IQ benefit . . . or even nice bokeh!

    All the best

    Just this guy you know

  31. #131
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    Re: X1 samples

    Without getting flamed here is another post from Andy Westlake who took the shots...

    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=33633051

  32. #132
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    Re: X1 samples

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Without getting flamed here is another post from Andy Westlake who took the shots...

    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=33633051
    no flame at all, very interesting indeed. it just strengthens my belief in what i saw in the images -- the camera is not for me.

  33. #133
    Administrator Bob's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    Nobody has commented about the quality of the X1's red dot.
    I am terribly familiar to the pricing of red dots as I am sure that you all are.
    So if one is shopping for a red dot, then it seems like this is the lowest price one can pay.
    One question remaining is if the red dot is of the same quality as the red dot on the M9 or other cameras from the one manufacturer from which red dots are routinely sourced.
    -bob

  34. #134
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    Re: X1 samples

    Actually, my dealer hands out red dots for free, so it seems that it is the camera which actually costs something. I realize that this goes against all logic
    Carsten - Website

  35. #135
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    Re: X1 samples

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Actually, my dealer hands out red dots for free, so it seems that it is the camera which actually costs something. I realize that this goes against all logic
    It could be that your dealer is trying to get you hooked on the red dots.
    Once you are it is inevitable that the price will rise.
    Red dots affixed to cameras seems to be a feature strongly correlated with price.
    -bob

  36. #136
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    Unrealistic expectations... says it all really.

    Kind Regards

    Brian

  37. #137
    Member markowich's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    The bokeh on that shot is bad,that terrible distracting sort that seems to vibrate,the flower is also soft.......but then what can you expect for just 1500 quid,what a bunch of moaners...
    for 1500.- quid you cannot expect much from leica.
    peter

  38. #138
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    Re: X1 samples

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Nobody has commented about the quality of the X1's red dot.
    I am terribly familiar to the pricing of red dots as I am sure that you all are.
    So if one is shopping for a red dot, then it seems like this is the lowest price one can pay.
    One question remaining is if the red dot is of the same quality as the red dot on the M9 or other cameras from the one manufacturer from which red dots are routinely sourced.
    -bob
    I wear my red dot in the lapel of my jacket.....it was earned by attending a Leica workshop...whoops, sorry, a Leica Academy. It cost me nothing except for the cost of the course...ahmmmm!

    Take a look at the images taken with the new Ricoh GXR on this link. All taken with the F2.5 33mm (50mm equiv.)/APS-C module. Link courtesy of Jurgen Udvang. http://www.dcfever.com/cameras/samples.php

    Anyone still want an X1??
    Cheers, Dave
    www.simmondsphotography.com

  39. #139
    Subscriber Member Streetshooter's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    I'm still going for it.
    Last Sat morning, I saw 10 prints from the X1.
    Sizes from 8 x 10 to 16 x 20.
    Very nice indeed.
    Next Sat there is a Leica Day and the M9 & X1 will be there.
    I have a money shoot but will try to get there.

    I'm really excited by this camera.
    Shooter

  40. #140
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    Re: X1 samples

    Shooter,

    Thanks for the heads-up. Might run in to you there.

    Anyone else going?

    http://us.leica-camera.com/news/even...te/2/6812.html

    -Thomas

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