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Thread: X1 samples

  1. #1
    nei1
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    Last edited by nei1; 5th November 2009 at 03:57.

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    Re: X1 samples

    These look stunning to me, especially given that they're only jpegs.

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    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    Actually, I think they look awful... when are Jack/Guy or Jono going to get their hands on one?

    Come on Leica!

    Cheers

    Brian

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    Jack and I get the S2 in early December to test. I will ask if they can bring a X1 along for the ride. My suspicion is this is a D300 sensor but I don't know for sure. If it is the D300 when I had it the top end fairly clean was at ISO 1600. Now I am a little picky on clean so please bear with me on that call. BTW is this a jpeg out of camera or a processed Raw in what program.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    Just found the answer and what i suspected ACR 5.5 was the processing engine. Certainly not the best noise raw processing software out their. The real answer will be the engine from LR3 when released which will update ACR as well or C1.

    Unless otherwise noted images taken with no particular settings at full resolution. All images were recorded in DNG raw format and converted using Adobe Camera Raw 5.5. A reduced size image (within 1024 x 1024 bounds) is provided to be more easily viewed in your browser. As always the original untouched image is available by clicking on this reduced image.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: X1 samples

    Awful? I don't get it. To qualify, of course it has all the faults of a typical dpreview samples series, but taking that into account, it looks awesome. It just looks like it has huge potential

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    Re: X1 samples

    Thanks for the heads up and link. I am dissapointed with what I saw as those samples aren't near the quality of the images I saw at PhotoPlus. They looked mushy (ala AA filtered CMOS), blown highlights, and I noticed some edge fringing kinda like CA on a couple shot (e. g., left side of yellow leaf).

    These samples have tempered my enthusiasm for the X1 until other sample and reviews come out.

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    Re: X1 samples

    ugly ugly bokeh... that flower pic really should have been deleted.

    what it looks like to me is an excellent small sensor camera with decent high ISO. a pity because i've been kind of searching for one of those -- but not at this cost.

    the lens also disappoints. sharp enough but at what cost? it's sharp and that's about it. no character, no draw, nothing to distinguish it as a Leica -- unless you are into their modern look (nothing against this, its just not my bag)... better than most i've seen from the micro 4/3's but actually less expressive than the GRDIII. and the Ricoh is an f/1.9...

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    Re: X1 samples

    Oh well, it looks like I'm the crazy one here.

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Jack and I get the S2 in early December to test. I will ask if they can bring a X1 along for the ride. My suspicion is this is a D300 sensor but I don't know for sure. If it is the D300 when I had it the top end fairly clean was at ISO 1600. Now I am a little picky on clean so please bear with me on that call. BTW is this a jpeg out of camera or a processed Raw in what program.
    Guy
    I asked this a PhotoPlus and confirmed its the same sensor (made by Sony) used in the D300 and the newer D90. I asked will the High ISO performance be better than the M9 and was told yes. I also saw prints shot at 3200-6400 that looked promising. Carolyn shoots with a D90 and 1600 looks like the M9 at 1000 but she can go to 3200 easier than I can go to 1600. I say advantage X1 +1EV to the M9 ...+2 to the M8 .....but then it gives it back because the lens is F2.8 and the M s I would be shooting with a 1.4.

    The big question is how will it compare to the GF1 with the 40/1.7?

    IQ should be amazing in the sweet spot with a derivative of the 24/2.8asph and the D90 sensor.



    The other key issue is focus speed (normal and in low light). I don t use small sensor camera regularly. My tests with the preproduction model showed it was pretty good(ok what the ...does that mean). I used it like I would my m8/9 with a finder ,on spot focus and looked for the green light to confirm I had it. It didn t hunt in normal indoor room light at all.

  11. #11
    ddk
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    Re: X1 samples

    It looks just like any low-mid digital camera crippled with limited tonal range and depth!

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    Re: X1 samples

    A couple of posts from Andy Westlake at DPReview about the samples....

    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=33604887

    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=33605077

  13. #13
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    Nice to see Andy active in the forums.

    Cheers

    Brian

  14. #14
    ddk
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    Re: X1 samples

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    A couple of posts from Andy Westlake at DPReview about the samples....

    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=33604887

    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=33605077
    My comment has nothing to do with sharpness, and no ACR profile is going to fix that.

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    Re: X1 samples

    Looks like a good cam to make shots of stone steps on a bright sunny day.

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    Senior Member bradhusick's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    My first reaction is disappointment. I will wait to see properly processed RAW files.

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    Senior Member kevinparis's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    I am puzzled to just what people were expecting from this camera. We all have a pretty good idea that its the sensor from a Nikon D300...and the pretty good high ISO we can see bares this out.

    Though the lens says Elmarit 24/2.8 on the front do you really think it was going to be of the same quality as the other Elmarit 24/2.8 they sell at 3750 dollars?...

    It does seem pretty overpriced for what it is... but thats Leica for you

    K

  18. #18
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinparis View Post
    Though the lens says Elmarit 24/2.8 on the front do you really think it was going to be of the same quality as the other Elmarit 24/2.8 they sell at 3750 dollars?...
    Something comparable with the Lumix 20mm f1.7 would have been fine.

    Cheers

    Brian

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    Re: X1 samples

    [QUOTE=kevinparis;152173 We all have a pretty good idea that its the sensor from a Nikon D300...[/QUOTE]

    Unsubstantiated rumor. BTW, the new D300s is even better!

    (There are also Sony A500 and Pentax Kx boasting good high ISO performances for half the price of an X1)

  20. #20
    Subscriber Member Streetshooter's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    Well, I for one will give it a run for the money.
    It could very well be a great image maker and I want to find out.

    Waiting....shooter

  21. #21
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    Thank you Shooter, for riding the bleeding edge for us

    I will definitely look out for your experience!

    Cheers

    Brian

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    Senior Member nostatic's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    The rumored Ricoh APS-C is looking more and more interesting...

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    Subscriber Member Streetshooter's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    Brian,
    Your welcome.....Someone's gotta do it....

    Now if Leica will send me one......
    All my M's & R's lay sleeping gently in the cabinet....
    Time to let them see the new kid on the block.....


    It should prove to be a great street camera. I don't think it will get anyone away from the
    m4/3 crowd. With a single focal length it will end up being used as a second camera unless likee, your a streetshooter.
    Maybe in the future, X2 will have a lens mount....
    Shooter

  24. #24
    Member Rick Waldroup's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    I thought the images were fine.

    But then again, for what I would use the camera for, the shots are impressive, as far as test shots go.

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    Re: X1 samples

    What ugly images, my G10 does better. Well not really, but it also is a lot cheaper ^^

    On the other hand we have to wait, dpreview has most of the times HORRIBLE samples, I can name just a few, many blured a900 images, misfocused 1DsMk3 images, horrible M9 images. After I saw the M9 images I nearly did not buy it. However I reminded me that dpreview can't be taken as any sort of real image quality info.

  26. #26
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    To be fair though Christopher, dpreview do great resolution targets

    I'll be watching out for talented photographers who can make this thing sing in due course.

    Cheers

    Brian

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    Senior Member Robert Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    ugly ugly bokeh... that flower pic really should have been deleted.
    Any decent review should be 'warts and all', not just the best.
    Sláinte

    Robert.

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    Re: X1 samples

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Campbell View Post
    Any decent review should be 'warts and all', not just the best.
    true. i guess i should be grateful... lust extinguished. it was truly hideous.

  29. #29
    nei1
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    Re: X1 samples

    The bokeh on that shot is bad,that terrible distracting sort that seems to vibrate,the flower is also soft.......but then what can you expect for just 1500 quid,what a bunch of moaners...

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    Re: X1 samples

    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    The bokeh on that shot is bad,that terrible distracting sort that seems to vibrate,the flower is also soft.......but then what can you expect for just 1500 quid,what a bunch of moaners...

    Just this guy you know

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    Senior Member Jim Radcliffe's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    I have to join those who are dissappointed by these X1 sample images on DPReview. While they are not terrible images and some of them were quite good, not a one of them had a Wow Factor for me. You could have told me they were taken by just about any camera and I would have believed it.

    I was really expecting something exceptional from the X1 and in a way, it is a relief that they were not. $2K (even if they were great photos) is still too much for the X1 with a fixed lens and an f/2.8 lens at that.

    I realize that a talented photographer will be able to produce better (more appealling) images but the biggest dissapointment is that these sample photos do not have the sharpness and micro-contrast I was hoping for.. nor is the bokeh that great.

    It does appear to do fairly well at high ISO settings but not quite what I was hoping for.

    I'm sure many will find the X1 to be a great little camera but for me, it had to have exceptional image output, low noise and great DR to make me part with $2K for a fixed lens point and shoot. I'm not going to totally give up on it just yet but my hopes have been diminished by these early samples.
    Jim Radcliffe
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    FYI Jack and I are getting a X1 along with the S2 Dec. 9th to play with along with a full test of the S2. Not sure how much we will get into the X1 but enough to give some impressions for sure.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: X1 samples

    I think there's still some potential there and I'll withhold final judgement until the camera is more widely used and there are more images to see.

    However, I think this level of criticism is exactly what the camera deserves. If you're going to introduce a fixed-lens pocket camera and price it twice or three times more than the competition, there has to be a reason for people to buy it (beyond the name). For $2k it can't just be good enough, it has to be excellent.

  34. #34
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    Re: X1 samples

    This is the oldest sales trick in the book.
    Make a cera and display bad to mediocre images.
    Then all the potential buyers say....
    Those images are crap... Just imagine what I can do with that camera.....

    I've never seen sample images that I felt I couldn't do better....
    Hmmm...no wonder I have so many cameras....

    If they put amazing images out there,
    they would alienate their customers.

    But look close at the crap that's there and you see the camera has great potential....
    Noise is good, lens is ok... It's all there...

    Am I dreaming or what?

  35. #35
    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    I don't think you're dreaming streetshooter, but the bad bokeh shot is a bit discouraging... you can't improve that with skill can you?

    Cheers

    Brian

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Unsubstantiated rumor. BTW, the new D300s is even better!

    (There are also Sony A500 and Pentax Kx boasting good high ISO performances for half the price of an X1)
    Vivek

    Consider it substantiated...I asked someone that knows and was told its the same sensor as the D300/D90 uses. That doesn t mean that the in camera processing is exactly the same (consider D3x and A900 that share a sensor).

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    Senior Member Jim Radcliffe's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    Quote Originally Posted by Streetshooter View Post

    If they put amazing images out there,
    they would alienate their customers.

    Am I dreaming or what?
    I have to disagree with you.. with Leica's target market they need to put good images out there.. hell, they need to be excellent images! If those images had been amazing I would have pre-ordered today.. but they weren't and there is no pre-order coming.

    Speaking of images.... if they allow DPReview to post images why have they not put up a really amazing sample gallery on the Leica site itself? That's where they're missing the marketing boat. Why rely on some guys at DPReview to be the first to post sample images from a production model? That makes no sense at all.
    Jim Radcliffe
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    Re: X1 samples

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    Vivek

    Consider it substantiated...I asked someone that knows and was told its the same sensor as the D300/D90 uses. That doesn t mean that the in camera processing is exactly the same (consider D3x and A900 that share a sensor).

    Roger, Still no substantiation.

    As you say, even if it is the same Sony sensor, it does not mean the image quality/out put would have any resemblance to Nikon D300.

    The Sony sensor is dated and is relatively cheap now. So, it is likely that it is the old Sony sensor.

  39. #39
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    Re: X1 samples

    Quote Originally Posted by Streetshooter View Post
    This is the oldest sales trick in the book.
    Make a cera and display bad to mediocre images.
    Then all the potential buyers say....
    Those images are crap... Just imagine what I can do with that camera.....
    Give that guy an M9 and what he will churn out.

  40. #40
    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Roger, Still no substantiation.

    As you say, even if it is the same Sony sensor, it does not mean the image quality/out put would have any resemblance to Nikon D300.

    The Sony sensor is dated and is relatively cheap now. So, it is likely that it is the old Sony sensor.
    Vivek

    What do you mean even if its the same sensor. I asked a person that would know for sure and got confirmation. Believe what you want.

    Your post is insulting.

  41. #41
    Super Duper
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    Re: X1 samples

    I believe, "I asked a guy who knows someone..." is a rumor.

    Not insulting but it is a fact that it still is a rumor.

  42. #42
    Senior Member bradhusick's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    The images in the Leica X1 PDF brochure are impressive. I hope the camera lives up to those examples. I hope they weren't taken with another camera.

  43. #43
    Senior Member bradhusick's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    Guys, let's not let this thread degenerate into rumor, conjecture and hurt feelings. Keep it focused on facts and reactions to what we see.

    I played a bit with a few of the images and they take a good amount of sharpening before degrading, revealing good detail. I can't wait to play with some RAW files in C1.

  44. #44
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    Re: X1 samples

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I believe, "I asked a guy who knows someone..." is a rumor.

    Not insulting but it is a fact that it still is a rumor.
    Actually, he said 'I asked a guy who knows'

    and rumour is spelled with a 'u'


    be cheerful - you agree with each other

    Just this guy you know

  45. #45
    Subscriber Member Streetshooter's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Give that guy an M9 and what he will churn out.
    We ain't talking about a real Leica,
    are we?

  46. #46
    Senior Member kevinparis's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    Boys

    play nicely... or when i win the lottery tomorrow and buy Leica I will make sure the bouncers on the doors of all the leica stores wont let you in :-)

    K

  47. #47
    Subscriber Member Streetshooter's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    Kevin,
    Who exactly told you that I was selling Leica....?
    Geeze......rumours.....

  48. #48
    Senior Member kevinparis's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    oh and another thing..a bit more serious

    bokeh 28/2.8 on a 1.5 crop?.. is it ever anything to write home about?

    K

  49. #49
    Senior Member kevinparis's Avatar
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    Re: X1 samples

    street

    and you also believe you own the Brooklyn Bridge and several hundred acres of prime Florida land?

    Don't trust those guys you meet on the street :-)

    K

  50. #50
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    Re: X1 samples

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Actually, he said 'I asked a guy who knows'

    and rumour is spelled with a 'u'


    be cheerful - you agree with each other

    Yes, I know that we agree. It still is a rumor.

    If it is Sony's IMX021 sensor, I do not see why it has to be tied up with Nikon's D300 and not Sony (and the Sony cameras that use it)?

    Some of the guys "who know" have no qualms in saying that the M8 uses a Kodak sensor.

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