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Thread: I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

    Well folks i just got my Epson 3800 a couple weeks ago and making prints for the Carmel workshop . Now i seen a couple prints from the M8 but damn i am making 17 x22 inch wide prints and there just singing with detail. Now I am impressed i knew my files are good but not this good. I wonder when they would truly fall apart because it is not happening at 17x22 in any way shape or form. BTW this Epson rocks the house
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

    Yeah,
    Get yourself some of that Harman Gloss 17 by 25
    Rocks indeed!
    -bob

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

    Next paper on my list. Right now I am using Epsons Ultra Premium Lustre
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

    The 3800 works; try some Crane Museo Max. DR

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    Re: I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

    I am in love with Ilford Gold Silk Fiber. Different texture from the Harman Gloss and much less costly. YMMV

    Woody

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    Re: I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyspedden View Post
    I am in love with Ilford Gold Silk Fiber. Different texture from the Harman Gloss and much less costly. YMMV

    Woody
    Agree completely about the Ilford. I use it, the Harman and the new Epson Exhibition Fibre but I really like the Ilford. Also the fact that it is half the others doesn't hurt.

    I have been printing on my Epson 7880 upto 24" x 30" and the M8 files hold up amazingly.

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    Re: I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

    I gotta try that Ilford.

    Has anyone tried the new Brilliant paper?

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    Re: I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

    Looks like another to put on the list. I made 6 prints today with no mistakes . i can't tell you how much a improvement this is to me than my past printing experiences. I am dead to nuts with monitor and printer. So important to be color managed correctly, otherwise you are just fighting a ghost.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

    Another vote for Ilford Gold fiber Silk. I first tried the Harmon and loved it in 8.5x11, looked at the price of the 13x19 and YIKES, ordered some Ilford.

    I've made prints on each and I can really barely tell them apart. Worth twice the price? Only you can decide.

    I'm sure if you like Harmon you'll like Ilford.

    Neil

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    Re: I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

    OK, a box of the ilford will be on its way shortly.
    -bob

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    matmcdermott
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    Re: I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

    Anyone have a source for the Harman Gloss 17x25? At the normal places I buy paper it's not even listed as being out of stock, it's not even on offer.

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    Re: I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

    I have found these folks to be a reliable source http://www.inkjetart.com/photo_papers/harman/gloss.html
    -bob

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    Re: I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

    Hi Guy
    Hw are you up sizing your files. David

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    Re: I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

    Need to come to a workshop for that one. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

    Guy, I'm thinking about switching to Epson (I'm now printing with a Canon ipf5000). With the 3800 you need to switch the Matt and Gloss inks right? If so is that a problem? Where did you get yours?
    Mike

    website under construction

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    Re: I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

    Mike i got mine from B&H. You don't have to change inks out. There is a slot for the Matte ink and it just disengages when you are doing glossy and than kicks in when you are doing matte. Depending on what surface you pick. The Epson 3800 is a very nice printer

    BTW there is a certain way we uprez in CS3 for making large prints. But everything is done in Cs3 no other software we use for uprezing the files
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Subscriber Member mwalker's Avatar
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    Re: I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

    Can one purchase that action??

    Also did you buy the prof series with the RIP?
    Mike

    website under construction

  18. #18
    matmcdermott
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    Re: I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

    Bob, thanks for the link. I've seen the Inkjet Art website, but must've overlooked them when searching for the paper.

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    Re: I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

    Quote Originally Posted by mwalker View Post
    Can one purchase that action??

    Also did you buy the prof series with the RIP?
    Not really a action but a way to do it. let's see what Jack wants to do . He is on Vacation at the moment. i bought the standard package . The rip is not that great from what i was told and the profiles from Epson are pretty darn close but to do it correct you need to make a profile for each paper type. Jack made his and that is what I have. Workshop folks get them for free.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

    Quote Originally Posted by TimWright View Post
    Agree completely about the Ilford. I use it, the Harman and the new Epson Exhibition Fibre but I really like the Ilford. Also the fact that it is half the others doesn't hurt.

    I have been printing on my Epson 7880 upto 24" x 30" and the M8 files hold up amazingly.
    Some folks may also like to test out a new fiber based, high gloss paper from Lexjet. It is their Sunset Fiber Elite 285g. It is not a baryta paper, but it does produce that air-dried, high gloss of traditional wet chemistry papers, from what I am seeing. It looks to be priced between the Ilford Galerie Gold Fibre Silk and the Epson Exhibition Fiber paper, and maybe a bit more than the Harman Fiber Glossy FB Ai paper, but not by much. I believe the paper is made by Innova, who actually makes papers for a lot of others that just rebrand things.

    Here is link to the stock and prices at Lexjet for this stuff. (I am not repping Lexjet or anything like that, but just thought to offer up some other options to folks looking for a quality paper. They also have profiles for this for most printers.)

    http://tinyurl.com/6cj3z6

    LJ

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    Re: I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    I have found these folks to be a reliable source http://www.inkjetart.com/photo_papers/harman/gloss.html
    -bob
    I would highly recommend Jim Doyle at Shades of Paper.
    www.shadesofpaper.com

    He always carries a good stock on hand and has competitive pricing. Give him a try.

    Woody

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    Re: I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

    Quote Originally Posted by LJL View Post
    Some folks may also like to test out a new fiber based, high gloss paper from Lexjet. It is their Sunset Fiber Elite 285g. It is not a baryta paper, but it does produce that air-dried, high gloss of traditional wet chemistry papers, from what I am seeing. It looks to be priced between the Ilford Galerie Gold Fibre Silk and the Epson Exhibition Fiber paper, and maybe a bit more than the Harman Fiber Glossy FB Ai paper, but not by much. I believe the paper is made by Innova, who actually makes papers for a lot of others that just rebrand things.

    Here is link to the stock and prices at Lexjet for this stuff. (I am not repping Lexjet or anything like that, but just thought to offer up some other options to folks looking for a quality paper. They also have profiles for this for most printers.)

    http://tinyurl.com/6cj3z6



    LJ

    I believe this paper is the equivalent of Innova Fiba Print Gloss. A very very nice surface and produces fine prints. Like it a lot

    Woody

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    Re: I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

    Don't bother paying the extra for the ColorBurst RIP that comes with the 3800 Pro package. I did and regret it. The RIP they supply is limited and only has profiles for the Epson papers.

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    Re: I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyspedden View Post
    I believe this paper is the equivalent of Innova Fiba Print Gloss. A very very nice surface and produces fine prints. Like it a lot

    Woody
    Probably right, Woody, since they are making all of it. There is a Sunset Fiber Gloss, but this Sunset Fiber Elite seems even better with a bit more of the true air-dried glossy look.

    LJ

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    Re: I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

    Quote Originally Posted by harmsr View Post
    Don't bother paying the extra for the ColorBurst RIP that comes with the 3800 Pro package. I did and regret it. The RIP they supply is limited and only has profiles for the Epson papers.
    I agree. If somebody wants a RIP for an Epson printer, the ImagePrint RIP by Colorbyte is still the platinum standard on this, and it will handle almost any kind of paper, canvas, fabric, film, you name it, and under daylight, cool white fluorescent, tungsten, and a couple other viewing light options. Not cheap, but definitely runs circles around the ColorBusrt RIP, in my opinion.

    LJ

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    Re: I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

    Is the Epson 3800 a move up from the Canon ipf5000? The thing that frustrates me is that the Canon still does not have drivers for Leopard however there is a cumbersome work around.

    Also this place has good prices on paper and printers

    http://www.itsupplies.com/cgi-bin/it...4c05e7/Catalog
    Mike

    website under construction

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    Re: I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

    Quote Originally Posted by LJL View Post
    Probably right, Woody, since they are making all of it. There is a Sunset Fiber Gloss, but this Sunset Fiber Elite seems even better with a bit more of the true air-dried glossy look.

    LJ
    Correction: The Lexjet Sunset Fiber Elite 285g paper is not the Innova FibaPrint Gloss suggested by Woody, but the Innova FibaPrint Ultrasmooth Gloss 285GSM paper.....it is a newer paper than the original Gloss.

    LJ

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    Re: I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

    Quote Originally Posted by mwalker View Post
    Is the Epson 3800 a move up from the Canon ipf5000? The thing that frustrates me is that the Canon still does not have drivers for Leopard however there is a cumbersome work around.

    Also this place has good prices on paper and printers

    http://www.itsupplies.com/cgi-bin/it...4c05e7/Catalog
    I don't think so. I have seen prints from the 5000 and make prints from the 3800 and the canon prints were very nice. I am sure there is a difference but the canon is capable making very good prints.

    the difference is in the usability of the printer, the canon is difficult, supposedly corrected in the newer 5100, things like documentation were very bad with the 5000, plus other glitches. Media handling and specifying was difficult on the 5000. the 3800 however is a breeze. LULa says the 5100 may have solved many of those early issues however.

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    Re: I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

    Quote Originally Posted by mwalker View Post
    Can one purchase that action??
    It's not really actionable unless you make a dedicated action for each specific size print. Bottom line is the process is not secret since I've published it before on a different forum, but it has been refined

    The basics are:

    1) Get your file the way you want it looking AT ITS NATIVE SIZE, INCLUDING OPTIMAL DETAIL ENHANCEMENT AT THAT SIZE.

    2) Uprez to your desired output size plus 15 - 20% in one shot using Bicubic Smoother. Example: If you want your final print to be a 16x24 at 360 PPI, then upsize it to 16x24 at 420 - 440 PPI. Note that final print resolution setting should be optimized for the printer/media combos being used.

    3) Once at the over size, you can add some targeted edge sharpening if desired. Usually not required or recommended until one goes larger than 16x24 from a typical 8-16 MP file.

    4) Downsize to target size using Bicubic Sharper. Example, take our above image from 16x24 at 440 PPI down to 16x24 at 360 PPI.

    5) Add any required edits specific to the output size.

    6) Print it.

    The above steps will generate a very nice large print file, though admittedly I have a few additional "secret sauce" edits I keep to share with the workshop attendees.

    Cheers,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

    Quote Originally Posted by LJL View Post
    Correction: The Lexjet Sunset Fiber Elite 285g paper is not the Innova FibaPrint Gloss suggested by Woody, but the Innova FibaPrint Ultrasmooth Gloss 285GSM paper.....it is a newer paper than the original Gloss.

    LJ
    Good Catch..........My bad

    Woody

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    Re: I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

    Jack,

    I'm not sure what you're gaining by pushing and pulling the pixels like this. My philosophy and advice is to not uprez at all, regardless of print size. Whether I print a 4x6 or a 20x30, I use my native file, be it 10, 12, or 22MP. This could be because of the printing equipment and Kodak lab software we use, but even when printing through ImagePrint to the Epson 9600, I don't change up or down from native size. My belief is that less is more.

    As a lab, we've printed millions of digital images from tens of thousands of customers over the years. I've had many pros give me a 50MB JPG sized at 20x30 @ 300 ppi and my native 6MB JPG from the M8 comes out better. Of course, the customer I'm thinking of only shot a "lowly" Canon MkIII.

    I made an offer to you before.... send me your native processed files and let me show you what I'm talking about. Or, let me send you some of my own work. Seeing is believing. The proof is in the print, my friend.

    David
    David Farkas
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  32. #32
    aero
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    Re: I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

    Take David up on it Jack - he knows of what he speaks. Hey David, where are my prints man? I liked using that front end app to upload stuff

    -Dan

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    Re: I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

    First off gentlemen Jack is a master printer and this is not kindergarden teaching. Second David labs uses a Lightjet which has it's own hardware interpolation built into it , so he does not have to do anything to the file the hardware and software does it. Not the case with Epson inkjets.

    Lightjet
    4. Real-time Hardware Interpolation

    Using our proprietary adaptive 16-point bi-cubic algorithm, the LightJet enhances sharpness through on-the-fly pixel interpolation. Because the pixels are faithful to the original image, the system can output small files at high resolution with no loss of sharpness. Unlike software interpolators which limit the flexibility of the interpolation process, our hardware uses complex algorithms to produce the best possible results. For example, the LightJets adaptive interpolation gives users the ability to sharpen some areas of an image, while maintaining softness in other areas - no other printer has this capability.

    5. High Productivity

    With the 200 dpi option, the LightJet will print a 50x50" image in 4.1 minutes (on RA4 paper). Smaller prints are produced even faster. Inkjet printers operating in "photographic mode" can take up to 10 times longer to produce a half-tone image.

    6. Optional Software Optimizes Workflow

    Cymbolic Sciences has created an open interface that allows for numerous workflow solutions. System Manager XL is optional software that incorporates invaluable features that can accelerate workflow when producing a mixture of print sizes from a variety of image data files.

    The software accepts PostScript (RGB/CMYK) and TIFF (RGB/CMYK) intermixed on the same page with no preprocessing required.
    The integrated PostScript RIP automatically calculates and RIPs file to size with no operator intervention
    Both PostScript and TIFF files, either in RGB or CMYK, can be previewed and color adjusted. Visual feedback is provided to the operator for color correction.
    CMYK files are converted to RGB as the files are imaged with no pre-processing required
    Different color corrections can be applied to individual image files that are printed on the same page
    Distinct sizing, cropping and interpolation factors can be applied to each image on the fly while imaging.

    Let's not confuse commercial laser printers like a Lambda and Lightjet to inkjet printers there different beasts altogether.

    More info on Lightjet http://www.cymbolic.com/products/lightjet5000.html
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

    Here is the bottom line


    Image Interpolation and Sharpness Control

    Hardware Interpolation

    Adaptive 16-point bi-cubic spline applied on a per frame basis. Does not increase the size of files being transferred or reduce productivity.

    System Manager Software Interpolation

    Automatic bi-cubic interpolation applied on a per image basis (multiple images within a frame can be scaled independently). Exact sizing feature provides for automatic scaling and interpolation to specific dimensions.

    Interpolation Scaling Range

    Hardware: 100% to 1,000%
    Software: 25% to 400%

    Sharpness Filters

    User selectable with defaults that allow different portions of an image to be sharpened or smoothed adaptively on a per frame basis.

    And if you have a 250 k to put one in your house than go for it. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  35. #35
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    Re: I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

    David, I will send you a simple print to print for me on your lightjet, my printer test image. I'll even keep it simple, just make me a 16x20 of it. You want it as an sRGB jpeg, correct?

    Just let me know to send it and it will be on its way.

    Cheers,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    David, I will send you a simple print to print for me on your lightjet, my printer test image. I'll even keep it simple, just make me a 16x20 of it. You want it as an sRGB jpeg, correct?

    Just let me know to send it and it will be on its way.
    sRGB JPG, 8-bit. For monitor proofing use 100 cd2, D65, 2.2 Gamma. On our calibrated Eizo monitors with these settings we get what we see.

    Normally, we color correct on monitor, then run 8x10 test prints on anything larger than 12x18. Every image is individually color corrected before printing regardless of size. If you want me to run something uncorrected, let me know. And, while 16x20 is fine, let me make you some 20x30s also.

    The best way to submit is using our iPrints Professional ROES software. It's Java based so it runs on Mac or PC the same. You can download it here.

    You'll need to enter your customer number in the My Information window. Jack, your cust id is 6343. Just put in the order instructions "attn: David - Samples". You won't be charged.

    I look forward to seeing the results.

    David
    David Farkas
    Leica Store Miami

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    Re: I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

    Guy,

    We actually use a Durst Theta 51 Dual, not a LightJet.

    For software, we actually use Kodak Professional DP2.

    You should submit some tests as well. Let me know if you're interested in getting some samples.

    David
    David Farkas
    Leica Store Miami

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    Re: I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

    Quote Originally Posted by aero View Post
    Take David up on it Jack - he knows of what he speaks. Hey David, where are my prints man? I liked using that front end app to upload stuff

    -Dan
    Thanks Dan.

    Small mixup with the Duratrans. You should have the prints in a few days. Sorry for the delay.

    David
    David Farkas
    Leica Store Miami

  39. #39
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: I'm really impressed with the M8 detail/Printing

    David:

    I sent you the image a few days ago, did you get it?

    Jack
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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