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M8 or MF?

nostatic

New member
Maybe a crazy question, and I know my budget is screaming from the back room (at least I'm divorced so only the checkbook complains). The short story is that I recently gave up track racing because I was bleeding cash ($10K for a transmission rebuild) and it was eating up too much time that was boring to my 11 year old son. I've gotten him in to photgraphy as I've dove in headfirst. Historically if I'm going to do something, it is worth doing to excess (divorced twice...not sure why :p).

My style has evolved rather quickly over the past year or two (so say my artist friends) and pictures aren't my day job (though digital media is, so peripherally I suppose it qualifies). I tend towards street shots and abstract, am enjoying shifting to B&W, and care about the end product, not really the specs. That being said, I totally appreciate quality workmanship in my tools (hence the 10K rebuild).

After cutting my teeth on a variety of P&S and a D70, and a distant past doing audio and dissolve programming for multi projector slide shows in the late 70's and early 80's, I'm currently shooting a Leica D Lux 3 (mostly street) and Pentax K20d with a handful on lenses (the 77mm ltd is sublime). I likely will pick up a Ricoh GRD2 for street and macro-on-the-go as I like the way small sensors draw some of what I see.

The dslr is a great all-around tool, but I kinda feel like it is a middle ground compromise. I don't really end up getting the "street' look from it, and it lacks the resolution to make Burtynsky-like studies. Kind of like a necessary tool to have around to cover various bases.

It seems like both the M8 and MF like the ZD/645 setup are on another level, albeit for different things. I have a tough time rationalizing spending 10-15K on another system, but things are looking up with some image licensing on the horizon and hopefully a gallery show or two this summer.

No way I can afford to go for both. As it stands if I get another system I'll be giving up my planned motorcycle purchase but after a nasty crash 1.5 years ago maybe that is for the best. I know this is the M8 forum but I also know that many here have multiple systems and are level headed bunch (except constantly craving more Leica glass ;) ).

Thoughts and/or advice? I could just keep shooting the snot out of what I've got, but gotta consider my options.
 

jaapv

Subscriber Member
Two different beasts altogether I would say. Which one you can handle in the street depends on the bulge of your muscles I suppose...The ZD wins hands down on resolution, the M8 on unobtrusivity.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Buy my M8 for 3800 with all the parts already . Magnifier, Grip, extra battery and 2 S cards. Ready to go and shoot . Still under warranty until November and I will deal with any repair needed under warranty until than. It's in very nice condition had the hardware change and also fixed for SDS . Minor scratches here and there but it runs good. Has some mileage as you know.

I can shoot some photos Friday of it. On the road .
 

nostatic

New member
Ready to shoot without lens Guy???
I got some spare plexiglass and duct tape in the garage ;)

Let me ponder that. Re-read most of Seans articles last night and he mentioned "MF-like quality" and "M8" in the same breath at low iso and "film-like grain" at hi iso. Was looking at Cameraquest and can get some Voigtlander glass for reasonable prices...

Ack!
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
For street and travel as primary, landscape and fine art as secondary, the M8 and at least three lenses, 21, 28/35, 50/75. Total cost if all bought used ~~ $10K, less if you get a CV or Zeiss instead of Leica.

For landscape or fine art as primary, go MF. A Mamiya ZD kit (camera, 80mm lens and ZD back) is tough to find used, but there are a few demos available if you hunt for $1000 of new price of $10K. Add two or three Mamiya MF lenses AND the 110 Planar, and you are set for around $15K...

BUT, street and travel with an MF system requires a certain amount of photo-dedication; it is not a casual exercise. OTOH, my Mamiya AFD/ZD with 80mm lens does not weigh any more than a Canon 1-series body with 50mm lens. Add 2 more MF lenses and you are at about a pro DSLR with 2 zooms or a zoom and 3 primes... By comparison, in less total weight I can carry 2 M8's and 5 M lenses, all in a bag that would barely hold either pro camera with one lens...

Cheers,
 

Maggie O

Active member
Voigtländer glass is just wonderful. There's no way I could ever afford Leica glass, and honestly, I don't miss it.

(Of course, there are those who think my photos look awful and inept, so YMMV.)
 
S

Sean_Reid

Guest
I got some spare plexiglass and duct tape in the garage ;)

Let me ponder that. Re-read most of Seans articles last night and he mentioned "MF-like quality" and "M8" in the same breath at low iso and "film-like grain" at hi iso. Was looking at Cameraquest and can get some Voigtlander glass for reasonable prices...

Ack!
In a nutshell, the M8 files at low ISO are a good match for drum scanned MF film negs. MF digital capture can mean even higher res, etc.

I can say that I've been working exclusively with the M8 since the first week of March for work that I'll be printing quite large. For me, the M8 is still the digital "Texas Leica". See David Adamson's piece in one of my M8 articles for another perspective (in the same vein).

Most of the Zeiss lenses, as a rule, are excellent. They are not "lesser" lenses compared to the current Leicas. The best of the CV lenses, but not all of them, are also excellent. I just now published part one of my CV 35/1.4 review, in fact.

Cheers,

Sean
 

nostatic

New member
I have to admit that I'm more run and gun than meticulous technician. I go out and just shoot what I see (and hopefully see what I shoot). I never use flash or shoot in a studio...well unless it is an artist friend's studio but that is different. Sounds like mf maybe isn't a fit for my current style. Have to go play with a rf to feel the vibe.
 

jonoslack

Active member
Maybe a crazy question,

Thoughts and/or advice? I could just keep shooting the snot out of what I've got, but gotta consider my options.
HI There
Not a crazy question at all (at least, I don't think so).
My M8 IS my MF kit . . . . sure, it isn't quite a Hassie HD3, but it produces lovely detailed files.

I do a lot of landscape, and I KNOW I should use an MF camera and tripod etc. etc., but when I do that, by the time I'm set up I've forgotten why I'm there, let alone that glimpse of a good shot I got in the corner of my brain.

The M8 does a lovely job, you can lean it against something if you need to, hand hold it at silly speeds and always get fine files as a result.

I have a mix of lenses, and I like Leica glass, but I have some fine CV and Zeiss lenses as well - you don't have to go bankrupt!
 

Maggie O

Active member
Who thinks that Maggie?
Just post me an email and I'll get them dealt with.
Oh, I was referring to the guy on another forum that slagged my work- I mentioned him in the thinking thread.

He's a drunk with bad taste and dubious ideas, like "if you shoot tittie photos, you are a pro."
 

TRSmith

Subscriber Member
Oh, I was referring to the guy on another forum that slagged my work- I mentioned him in the thinking thread.

He's a drunk with bad taste and dubious ideas, like "if you shoot tittie photos, you are a pro."

What is it with those guys? Hey, if you need a posse, sign me up.
 

LJL

New member
To the question "nostatic" asked, I would rephrase it from ""M8 or MF?", to "M8 + MF!", more in line with what Jack has been thinking/doing lately, as well as following on the interesting discussion thread in the MF forum section.

If one is really after the image quality, only MF will satisfy that. If one is really trying to do the most with the least, but not sacrificing too much, then the M8 can hit the high notes there, for the most part. If one really wants to pursue image quality in the most shooting circumstances, then it becomes M8 + MF. For most, the M8 can deliver all they need, as many prove all the time on this forum and in many other places. For those needing bigger, superb files to get even further, MF is the ticket. Most of us, myself included, get "trapped" in the DSLR world as it presents the greatest number of options for all the compromises. (How is that for "left-handed compliment" to the gear that pays the bills right now?)

I think Jono is right....used with some care, the M8 will get you more and more often, plus it is just fun to use. And Jack and others are also right when they melt working with wonderful MF files. So, if you have the means, time and interest, do BOTH of them. If you just want to always have something for those "corner of the mind shots" that Jono talks about, get the M8 and never leave it behind.

LJ
 

jonoslack

Active member
If you just want to always have something for those "corner of the mind shots" that Jono talks about, get the M8 and never leave it behind.

LJ
How nicely put: . . . corner of the mind . . . . I must remember that.
Trouble is, that's about all that's left of my mind!

Still, it's true. When I find something really good, I take one shot, then I stop and think (assuming it's still there); recompose, think about the exposure, brace or use a tripod, get the perfect lens out . . . . . .
And when I get home, that first ranging shot is ALWAYS the best one: Instinct counts for a lot (with me at least), and it's difficult for it to seep through big setups.
 

LJL

New member
Jono,
Sounds like you also cross back and forth over my other imaginary "boundary".

I frequently ask myself the question:
"Are you looking to shoot something, or shooting to find something?"

Either one works, but it helps me gain a perspective. Many times I start with the first part, and then hope for the second part while reviewing images back home. Lately, I have been trying to focus more on the second part, and that is where having the M8 really opens things up.

LJ
 

jonoslack

Active member
I frequently ask myself the question:
"Are you looking to shoot something, or shooting to find something?"
Well, I'm just looking.

The truth is that I don't arrange life (it always becomes simplistic), and the minute I start arranging photos they become simplistic as well. I see things, then I take pictures of them, but it isn't quite the same as 'looking to shoot something'.

I guess the artisan in me is good enough to get properly exposed and composed shots which are sharp, but the artist in me (if there is one), is very much outside my control!

here is a case in point . . . I couldn't have worked this one out, my brain just isn't like that . . . I could see it though :)
 

Bob

Administrator
Staff member
Jono,
Great mortar and pestle shot!
-bob

nothing to do with your picture, but I wonder what screen they use on billboards?
 
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