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Thread: New to M8: another lens recommendation request 24mm v. 28mm?

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    steve728
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    New to M8: another lens recommendation request 24mm v. 28mm?

    Hi all -- new to the forum (and kinda new to the M8 as well).

    I have another lens recommendation request because I need to decide soon on a lens before my hold on it expires. (I know that there are a bunch of posts out there but it's still hard for me to decide after reading them.)

    I can get a 24mm Elmarit ASPH for about $900 more than a 28mm Elmarit. Is it worth the extra $ for this lens?

    I have a 50mm pre-ASPH Lux (which I love) and I need a wider walkabout lens good for travel, some landscapes, buildings, street (i.e., all-purpose). I originally was going to get a 28mm Elmarit for this purpose. But to complicate things, I actually picked up a 35mm Cron ASPH as I was waiting for my M8 to arrive and because it was a great deal. But now, I find it's an odd focal length for me on the M8 and I want something wider. I was going to return the 35mm and get a 28mm. But a local Leica dealer noted that holding onto great lenses (like the 35mm Cron) is advisable. If that's the case, then a 24mm would make sense (and would be a great kit IMHO) but my wallet takes a double hit (because I'm buying an extra lens which is more expensive). Should I consolidate into the 28mm? And if so, will I regret returning (or keeping) the 35mm Cron?

    One more note. Last night, I trekked out to a store that carries Leica, and I was able to see and mount the 24mm and 28mm. I must say I prefer the small size of the 28mm even with hood...the 24mm with hood was huge.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by steve728; 6th January 2010 at 06:55.

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    Re: New to M8: another lens recommendation request 24mm v. 28mm?

    The 24 gives you a 32mm FOV on the M8 and the 28 more like a 38mm FOV.
    I find the 28mm to give a more natural look and the 24 a more dynamic wide angle like look on the M8.
    So the question is what you like.
    For me the 28 (2.0) and 50 mm were the most used lenses on the M8.
    I had however also a wate and 21mm for the times I wanted wide.
    I didnt use 35mm much on the M8 even though I now use 50 a lot on the M9.
    I could imagine that the small 28/2.8 could be a very nice walk around combo with the M8 (just as I like the 35 Summarit for that on the M9).

  3. #3
    steve728
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    Re: New to M8: another lens recommendation request 24mm v. 28mm?

    Thanks for your advice...I think I'm gonna go with the 28mm because it seems like a versatile lens at a reasonable price for a Leica. Like you said, I think the 28mm and the 50mm will be the most used ones. Maybe if I find I need something wider, I can go with a CV 15 or a ZM lens instead.

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    Re: New to M8: another lens recommendation request 24mm v. 28mm?

    Steve... Like T-Streng mentioned... it is what you like.

    My M8 two lens combo... 28 & 50 or 35 & 75

    If I need a 3rd lens... either a 21 or a 90 depending on the two lens combo or where I am going.

    Looks like you will be buying your 4th lens soon

    Robert.

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: New to M8: another lens recommendation request 24mm v. 28mm?

    Here is a vote for the 24..just to keep it interesting. On the M8 ..the 24 provides the same FOV as a 32mm on FF. Thats pretty close to 35mm which has been a Leica favorite . So a 24 (32fov) and 50(67fov) provides the most used range ..essentially the 35-70fOV. If FF is in your future (some day an M9) then you could add the 35mm and have 24/35/50.

    The vote for the 28 would come if you were considering the faster f2 summicron but if its the elmarit 2.8 versions ...the 24 has the better FOV.

    The way around the hood on the M8 is to replace it with a 55mm wide metal hood from heavystar (on ebay) about $12 .

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    Re: New to M8: another lens recommendation request 24mm v. 28mm?

    I agree with Roger on the 24mm as I've found it the lens I shoot with 99% of the time when traveling. That 'slightly wider than 35mm' has a natural FOV for me.

    But this is one of those questions you want someone to answer for you so that you feel with conviction you purchased the right lens. The only real answer is to shoot some test images around your dealer's front door.

  7. #7
    steve728
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    Re: New to M8: another lens recommendation request 24mm v. 28mm?

    Thanks all. Some really good points to consider.

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    Here is a vote for the 24..just to keep it interesting. On the M8 ..the 24 provides the same FOV as a 32mm on FF. Thats pretty close to 35mm which has been a Leica favorite . So a 24 (32fov) and 50(67fov) provides the most used range ..essentially the 35-70fOV. If FF is in your future (some day an M9) then you could add the 35mm and have 24/35/50.

    The vote for the 28 would come if you were considering the faster f2 summicron but if its the elmarit 2.8 versions ...the 24 has the better FOV.
    I've been reading more reviews and it seems the 28 Cron is worth considering. If I prefer the view of the 28mm then maybe it's worth selling the 35 Cron and sticking with a two lens kit for now with the most usable range for me? That way, I won't lose the f2 if I streamline. There is a big difference in price between the two though....

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_Tuttle View Post
    I agree with Roger on the 24mm as I've found it the lens I shoot with 99% of the time when traveling. That 'slightly wider than 35mm' has a natural FOV for me.

    But this is one of those questions you want someone to answer for you so that you feel with conviction you purchased the right lens. The only real answer is to shoot some test images around your dealer's front door.
    I will hopefully get a chance to try out a 28mm Elmarit this weekend or early next week. BUT I must admit that I am very tempted by the 24mm ... I suppose the main concerns holding me back is the added cost, slightly bigger size and weight, and my plans for a two lens kit has now become a 3 lens kit!

    Any other thoughts would be appreciated....

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: New to M8: another lens recommendation request 24mm v. 28mm?

    A good rule of thumb is to determine the desired FOV for the type of photography you enjoy. For example ..I actually went with the 21/2.8asph as my primary lens on the M8s because I wanted a 28mmFOV for street shooting. This is what I found necessary to shoot without looking thru the viewfinder. With a 21 I can frame accurately with the camera near the ground,over my head of at my waist. With the 24 or the 28 I would be cutting into the image. This is unique to street shooting but I needed a 28FOv so I learned to use the 21asph as my main lens. On the M9 I can go back to the 28/2 summicron for the same FOV .

    The 2nd most important criteria should be speed....2.8 is slow on the M8 ...after ISO 640 you loose quality in your files and you better nail the exposure ..no room for error. So speed may be an important factor. This drives a lot of M8 users to the 28 summicron or even up to the 35 1.4 summilux.

    If you can buy used and can get the lenses 6 bit coded ....you will rarely lose any money by trading later (of course you will probably just expand you number of lenses). I have never been unhappy buying any leica M lens thats in good condition.

    The 28 summicron is the most popular due to its speed,size and balanced rendering sharp..nice color and high but not extreme contrast. But you will not be unhappy with the 24/2.8asph .

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    Re: New to M8: another lens recommendation request 24mm v. 28mm?

    I agree that f2.0 is a real advantage over f2.8 if you can afford the Summicron.

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    Re: New to M8: another lens recommendation request 24mm v. 28mm?

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    I agree that f2.0 is a real advantage over f2.8 if you can afford the Summicron.
    Hi Thomas
    I agree if you need the faster speed . . . but I sold my 28mm elmarit (and added a great deal of money) to get my 28 f2 . . . I wouldn't quite say that I regret it, but the little 28 elmarit asph is a lovely lens, and right in the spirit of a small M kit, It isn't quite as subtle as the 28 'cron, but it's contrasty and very sharp from corner to corner.

    Interesting that you say you didn't use a 35 much on the M8, but that you're using a 50 a lot on the M9. This is completely illogical and silly . . . . and it's exactly what I'm finding as well!

    Steve - don't worry too much about the hood . . . I have a novel solution, which is simply to leave them off! If I'm shooting into the sun it doesn't make any difference, and where it would make a difference, then I use my hand to shade the lens - not perfect, but better than carrying a huge excrescence on the end of the lens!

    If I were in your position . . . and working on a budget . . I'd sell the 35 and get the 28 elmarit, and you could invest in a 15mm VC for wide angles and still have a lot of change.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: New to M8: another lens recommendation request 24mm v. 28mm?

    If you already have a 50 and a 35 then I think a 24 or 25 would be the best choice since the 28 and 35 are pretty close in terms of FOV.

    One alternative is to get the Zeiss ZM 25mm with its dedicated hood. Bigger than the 28mm but smaller than the Leica 24mm with its hood. The ZM 25mm is supposedly the best lens in the ZM line and the only reason I don't have one is that I have the 21mm and 28mm ZM lenses already.

    -Thomas

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    Re: New to M8: another lens recommendation request 24mm v. 28mm?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    ...Interesting that you say you didn't use a 35 much on the M8, but that you're using a 50 a lot on the M9. This is completely illogical and silly . . . . and it's exactly what I'm finding as well!

    ...
    Jono,
    one of the reasons I didnt use 35mm much on the M8 is that the 35/1.4asph I had did (very slightly) focus shift. (my 50asph is however perfect on my M9)
    On the other hand the 28/2.0asph worked perfect on my M8.

    So its not only about focal length but also about how certain lenses work on certain cameras.

    The other thing is that I personally have times when I prefer certain lenses/looks and that does change here and then.
    These days my most used lenses are the the 24/1.4 (because its new for my and I like to experiment with a more dynamic and spontanioius way of taking images), the 35 Summarit (I love that lens besides I sometimes wish it was f1.4 and had a shorter min focusing distance) and the 50asph.

    The other lens I have used quite a bit is the MATE.

    IMO sometimes one has to use a lens for a while to really know if it is right for you or not.

  13. #13
    steve728
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    Re: New to M8: another lens recommendation request 24mm v. 28mm?

    I appreciate the collective experience and opinions on these forums! Very helpful, indeed.

    Based on suggestions (and budget), I think I have decided to go with the 28mm. I did like the FOV better than the 35mm. I plan on returning the 35/2 so I can get the 28/2. (I'm still within the return policy window.)

    I also have another somewhat related lens question to my 28mm + 50mm kit. So I have had a demo 50mm Summilux pre-ASPH (most refer to as version 3, .7m close focus, integrated hood) for the past week. I've been loving it and the f1.4. The lens is clean and everything is fine EXCEPT there is some wear/damage to the integrated hood on the top and bottom rim --- kinda like someone accidentally closed a drawer on it. It's slightly dented on the top and bottom (like pinched down), but the dent doesn't seem to affect the functioning of the hood and appears mostly aesthetic because some paint chipped off. Would this kind of impact which can cause this hood damage affect the lens at all? I know it may affect resale value because of the wear, i.e., if I ever decided to trade up to an ASPH version. If everything should be fine, can the integrated hood be replaced or smoothed out? And would that be a costly service (I imagine it will)? Wouldn't that sink more $ into a lens which I believe I paid a premium for?

    Even with the hood imperfections, it was pricey (~$1900) because it was Leica 6-bit coded already, they're in demand, and other than the hood damage, the lens elements seem to be in excellent condition. I had been looking for a while and felt lucky to find one, but now I'm having doubts because of the hood damage. Also, if I am more patient, I can either: find a cheaper one (perhaps without the coding or an earlier version), find a black paint one (which I prefer), or keep saving for an ASPH.

    I'm leaning towards returning this also (as I'm within the return policy here) and then keeping my eyes open for a better deal or a black paint version or saving up for a 50mm Lux ASPH instead. Or should I just consider myself lucky to have found one (with good optics but rough exterior)?

    Even if I return it, I think I'm okay with just traveling with the 28mm only for a while until I find another good 50mm. In fact, some forum members seems to recommend using only one lens for a while to really get a feel for what you need/want.

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    Super Duper
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    Re: New to M8: another lens recommendation request 24mm v. 28mm?

    My 50asph fell down and my hood had been damaged. - yes, the hood can be replaced but keep in mind that repairs are expensive.
    So the hood problem should influence the price.
    Maybe you can ask the seller to refund you $100 or 150 for that reason.

    The other question is: did the lens get any further damage when the hood was damaged?

    I think the 28mm decision is a good one-and I agree one could "survive" some times with just a 28mm lens.

    I think coding is not that important for a 50mm lens by the way. If you are not really happy I would rather return it.

    Quote Originally Posted by steve728 View Post
    I appreciate the collective experience and opinions on these forums! Very helpful, indeed.

    Based on suggestions (and budget), I think I have decided to go with the 28mm. I did like the FOV better than the 35mm. I plan on returning the 35/2 so I can get the 28/2. (I'm still within the return policy window.)

    I also have another somewhat related lens question to my 28mm + 50mm kit. So I have had a demo 50mm Summilux pre-ASPH (most refer to as version 3, .7m close focus, integrated hood) for the past week. I've been loving it and the f1.4. The lens is clean and everything is fine EXCEPT there is some wear/damage to the integrated hood on the top and bottom rim --- kinda like someone accidentally closed a drawer on it. It's slightly dented on the top and bottom (like pinched down), but the dent doesn't seem to affect the functioning of the hood and appears mostly aesthetic because some paint chipped off. Would this kind of impact which can cause this hood damage affect the lens at all? I know it may affect resale value because of the wear, i.e., if I ever decided to trade up to an ASPH version. If everything should be fine, can the integrated hood be replaced or smoothed out? And would that be a costly service (I imagine it will)? Wouldn't that sink more $ into a lens which I believe I paid a premium for?

    Even with the hood imperfections, it was pricey (~$1900) because it was Leica 6-bit coded already, they're in demand, and other than the hood damage, the lens elements seem to be in excellent condition. I had been looking for a while and felt lucky to find one, but now I'm having doubts because of the hood damage. Also, if I am more patient, I can either: find a cheaper one (perhaps without the coding or an earlier version), find a black paint one (which I prefer), or keep saving for an ASPH.

    I'm leaning towards returning this also (as I'm within the return policy here) and then keeping my eyes open for a better deal or a black paint version or saving up for a 50mm Lux ASPH instead. Or should I just consider myself lucky to have found one (with good optics but rough exterior)?

    Even if I return it, I think I'm okay with just traveling with the 28mm only for a while until I find another good 50mm. In fact, some forum members seems to recommend using only one lens for a while to really get a feel for what you need/want.

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    Re: New to M8: another lens recommendation request 24mm v. 28mm?

    Steve - I found 28 a much more natural companion than 24 on the M8. I started with 24 only, it's a very nice lens of course, but the intrusion of it's paired frameline drove me nuts when constructing photographs. For the 50 mm you might consider a S/H Konica M-Hexanon 50mm f2.0 lens, a very nice lens [has built-in sliding hood] and they come up fairly regularly in places like RangeFinder Forum [classifieds] [though, alas, not at the time of writing this].

    Beware of obsessing over what are often minute quality differences in lenses, those differences can easily be lost in everyday off-tripod photography. Slower lenses are usually smaller, lighter, cheaper, easier to design, easier to make, and usually free of the focus shift which haunts some faster lenses; the heavy premium paid for f1.4 [and faster] lenses is substantial. I prefer small, slower lenses for my work and do not consider the use of a tripod or monopod as an insult to my waining machismo.

    As always; horses for courses [of course].

    ............. Chris

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: New to M8: another lens recommendation request 24mm v. 28mm?

    Steve

    Just as you are concerned about condition ..so might a potential buyer. A dented lens hood makes you wonder about possible greater damage. I always avoid any lens with the slightest signs of damage for this reason. You will find a damaged lens much harder to sell and the discount will rarely justify accepting the damage.

    A clean pre asph 50 without the 6 bit coding should go for $1500-1700 used in the US. Check what camera west has them listed for or KEH as a reference.

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