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Do IR cut filters affect image on M9?

tom in mpls

Active member
Previously I had posted a question about using protective UV filters on Leica lenses. Responses were posted on both sides of the question, but it was interesting to hear that some choose to use them. I am in the "too expensive to take chances" group.

As I now have IR cut filters, can I use these same filters on an M9 to keep my lenses protected? Or do they have a negative effect on metering, color rendition, contrast, etc?
 
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jklotz

New member
Protecting your lenses is up to you, however, there are other reasons for using a UV/IR filter on the M9. Personally, I think it is subject dependent.

Here is a shot of a black camera bag without a filter on an M9:



and one with:

 

tom in mpls

Active member
Interesting; the IR filter on the M9 isn't 100% effective. Let me then rephrase my question. Assuming that I intend to use protective filters, is there any down side to using IR cut filters rather than UV(0) or clear?
 

jonoslack

Active member
Interesting; the IR filter on the M9 isn't 100% effective. Let me then rephrase my question. Assuming that I intend to use protective filters, is there any down side to using IR cut filters rather than UV(0) or clear?
HI Tom
Well - I did some testing back in the summer, enough to make me think that colour and detail in outside scenes was adversely affected by using IR cut filters . . . Mind you, I recently removed the UV filter from my MATE because I felt that was adversely affecting the image.

The M9 built in filter is the strength it is (i.e. not complete) because making it thick enough to completely remove any IR was going to affect detail in the shots.

The joy of finally being able to expose the wonderful leica multi-coating naked to the environment shouldn't be compromised by putting a bit of relatively cheap glass in front of it! (at least, that's what I think).

As far as scratching front elements and using filters for protection is concerned, I'm pretty sure that adding up the cost of all the filters that I haven't bought would make a much larger sum than the cost of the one lens who's front element I've scratched!

all the best
 

bradhusick

Active member
In his testing Sean Reid found that on any lens 50mm or wider the use of an IR filter with an M9 produced cyan corners, so he recommends not using them on these lenses. I have simply decided not to use any filters on my lenses. I do use lens hoods to offer some protection and knock-on-wood, I have suffered no scratches.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
The joy of finally being able to expose the wonderful leica multi-coating naked to the environment shouldn't be compromised by putting a bit of relatively cheap glass in front of it! (at least, that's what I think).
Jono (or anyone else), Have you tried the new Zeiss filter? It is not cheap (price wise). It is also a meniscus filter that should (in principle) help with the imaging and not hinder it by focusing the light in the right areas.
 

jklotz

New member
The downside to adding almost any filter is increased flare, particularly when there is a light source in the frame (ie backlighting)
 

jonoslack

Active member
Jono (or anyone else), Have you tried the new Zeiss filter? It is not cheap (price wise). It is also a meniscus filter that should (in principle) help with the imaging and not hinder it by focusing the light in the right areas.
HI Vivek
No - but then on the very rare (2 occasions) when I've felt there is an IR problem, I've simply desaturated the magenta a little (something which simply didn't answer on the M8).
Much simpler not to use filters, and really no good reason to use them. It's one of the big joys of the M9 - why on earth spoil it by muddying the water.(IMHO of course)
 

Ricnak

New member
Tom.

So what is your verdict? To filter or not to filter?

BTW, I love all your questions. You are further along the Leica M journey than me. I am still waiting for the ordered M9. I have been waiting 6 weeks and expect to wait another 6. So it has given me time to research. But, you don't know what you don't know. All your questions give me some idea on what I will need to know soon!

The filters.... I am losing sleep over too. I recently bought a lens from this site. I actually don't like even looking at it without a filter. Having said that, the lens hoods are very good so I am considering going without. I don't think I could go to the beach and not have one on though!

Keep those questions coming.

Cheers

Helen
 

tom in mpls

Active member
So what is your verdict? To filter or not to filter?
Thanks for the feedback, Helen. If I get an M9 I am probably going to use B+W "protection". It would be nice if I could just use my current IR cut filters, but it sounds like it introduces some changes in the image so I will switch.
 

m_driscoll

New member
HI Tom
Well - I did some testing back in the summer, enough to make me think that colour and detail in outside scenes was adversely affected by using IR cut filters . . . Mind you, I recently removed the UV filter from my MATE because I felt that was adversely affecting the image.

The M9 built in filter is the strength it is (i.e. not complete) because making it thick enough to completely remove any IR was going to affect detail in the shots.

The joy of finally being able to expose the wonderful leica multi-coating naked to the environment shouldn't be compromised by putting a bit of relatively cheap glass in front of it! (at least, that's what I think).

As far as scratching front elements and using filters for protection is concerned, I'm pretty sure that adding up the cost of all the filters that I haven't bought would make a much larger sum than the cost of the one lens who's front element I've scratched!

all the best
Jono: Any idea how much it would cost to replace a Leica front lens? I'm one of those paranoid people who can't leave the store with a new lens unless it has a UV filter on it. Cheers.

http://mdriscoll.zenfolio.com
 

tom in mpls

Active member
The downside to adding almost any filter is increased flare, particularly when there is a light source in the frame (ie backlighting)
I think, then, that this is the heart of the matter. Increased risk of flare (shooting into a light source is always risking flare, no?) vs increased risk of damage to the front element. I don't know if this is intended or not, as it may just be my sensitive hide, but I feel like I'm being told by some who choose not to use them that I'm really not a true and serious photographer should I consider putting on a clear filter. I react to it as a sort of "purist" snobbery. Unless I can be shown how it makes a difference in most or many settings, which I have not seen.
 

TRSmith

Subscriber Member
With respect I submit that this question (uv filter for protection vs. naked lens) has been asked in almost every forum and about every conceivable camera/lens combination, that I have ever read. Since neither side of the filter/no filter debate has ever produced any hard evidence of either A: Lens saved! (filterers) or; B. Enhanced lens performance! (no filterers), I'm convinced it falls under the category of personal preference. Whatever you decide, it doesn't make you a bad person. If it feels good, do it!
 
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Hacker

New member
The joy of finally being able to expose the wonderful leica multi-coating naked to the environment shouldn't be compromised by putting a bit of relatively cheap glass in front of it! (at least, that's what I think).
You can always use expensive filters :salute: :ROTFL::

http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/fotofilter/bw-filter-limited-edition-gold.htm

"The F-PRO GOLD series is an exclusive edition of the classic F-PRO line of filters. This limited edition filter is produced in Bad Kreuznach from carefully selected materials. The gold colored version is strictly made from highly transparent, MRC-coated UV protective glass. Each filter is given a serial number as well as a certificate of authenticity, then delivered in a luxurious wood case."

 

tom in mpls

Active member
"The F-PRO GOLD series is an exclusive edition of the classic F-PRO line of filters. This limited edition filter is produced in Bad Kreuznach from carefully selected materials. The gold colored version is strictly made from highly transparent, MRC-coated UV protective glass. Each filter is given a serial number as well as a certificate of authenticity, then delivered in a luxurious wood case."
Oh, drat. No IR cut version?:rolleyes:
 

jonoslack

Active member
I think, then, that this is the heart of the matter. Increased risk of flare (shooting into a light source is always risking flare, no?) vs increased risk of damage to the front element. I don't know if this is intended or not, as it may just be my sensitive hide, but I feel like I'm being told by some who choose not to use them that I'm really not a true and serious photographer should I consider putting on a clear filter. I react to it as a sort of "purist" snobbery. Unless I can be shown how it makes a difference in most or many settings, which I have not seen.
HI there Tom
I'm answering this question rather than the one you directed at me because it's more interesting! As far as front element replacement, I've no idea - expensive I imagine, at least after the passport warranty runs out!

So - the interesting bit is the 'purist' snobbery point. I think there are various aspects to this, and I guess it really is preference.
When my MATE arrived recently, it came with a leica slim UV filter on it - so I left it on, but I actually did think it created flare . . . so I took it off again, and like my other lenses, don't use them. I do also feel that the amount of effort that goes in to doing specific multicoating of the lenses designed for the particular lens must be compromised by sticking on a filter.

On the other hand (and quite inconsistently) I don't use lens hoods (except the built in kind on the longer focal lengths). Why not? Because I find the increased size and the encroachment in the viewfinder irritates me. I shelter the lens with my hand when I'm shooting near the sun (and I've got pretty good at that). The 28 'cron turns from a behemoth to a tiny lens :clap:

Back to the 'purist' snobbery - I find it astonishing and depressing that leica can't sell the lovely summarit lenses, and I can only put this down to the 'purist' snobbery argument. . . but of course, I don't feel that way about filters, because I agree with not using them :ROTFL::ROTFL:

I think that Tim has it - these things are down to personal preference, but, like you I really deeply resent the idea that you can't be a 'real' photographer if you don't do it 'properly'. In fact, I suffer from this all the time from 'real' landscape photographers who don't believe that you can take 'proper' landscape photographs without MF and a tripod. We all have to make compromises - otherwise everybody would be using 10x8 cameras!

Just a final note on the idea of the filter as protection. These type of insurance arguments are difficult to bottom out. With our computers at work, we don't every buy extended warranty - If I cost that out over the last 20 years, I'm pretty certain we could replace every one of our current computers with the money we've saved by not paying for the 'peace of mind'. I could certainly buy a small car by the money I haven't paid out on extended car warranty (driving 25,000 miles a year as I do) (if I hadn't already spent it on photo gear) :)

all the best
 
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