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Thread: The X1

  1. #1
    terryc
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    The X1

    Greetings,

    Has the X1 arrived in North America? I have read it has arrived in some numbers in the UK/Europe. It seems the X1 is rather elusive on this side of the Atlantic - I could speculate why that might be, but in the world of Leica speculation is all it would be. Who really knows but our dear friends in Solms.

    I heard "this week", I have heard "next week" and it would seem no matter how good or not the X1 might be Leica doesn't seem in a hurry to get into the hands of end users.

    I did touch one for a brief few minutes way back on January 9th with talk of it being about a month away from distribution in North America. That remains to be seen.

    Best to all. Terry.

  2. #2
    Member jpmac55's Avatar
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    Re: The X1

    First, it's puzzling how little attention the X1 gets here. Some of the other Leica forums are really buzzing now.

    As for reaching the USA, who really knows but some dealers are saying next week. Most of what I read suggest very limited supplies. I'm on a X1 wait list and the shop was anticipating their first shipment to get 10 cameras now thinks 1 to 5 is more likely.
    John

  3. #3
    terryc
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    Re: The X1

    Thank you for the reply. Apparently it is next week or at least according to Leica NJ. It will be very interesting to see how well the X1 is received in North America. Not sure why there is so little interest on this forum, perhaps because of the large interest in m4/3 on getdpi.

    Fingers crossed for next week.

    Terry.

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    Member roanjoh's Avatar
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    Re: The X1

    .......also the Samsung NX10 is stealing it's thunder....... same size sensor with interchangeable lenses..... + better LCD for chimping.

  5. #5
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    Re: The X1

    I'm on a list...also working on getting one for the Salton Sea workshop for testing out. I'm very happy with m4/3 but really love the simple interface of the M8 and this seems similar with button placement and usage. The Leica Forum is just now starting to get more active now that the first deliveries are coming through. Makes sense that it is the most active forum. Where else is it actively being discussed?

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    Member jpmac55's Avatar
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    Re: The X1

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Where else is it actively being discussed?
    Besides the Leica forums, dpreview get spurts of X1 activity. Not sure I'm crazy about that forum but Leica content just the same:
    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/forum.asp?forum=1038
    John

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    Re: The X1

    Leica is sending us a X1 for the Salton Sea workshop. Terry wanted to get her hands on it and give a full review. So look forward in the coming weeks a X1 review by someone that I think is very qualified to give one given her ongoing love for the small format camera's and more importantly her knowledge of these systems. I for one look forward to her testing and review.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  8. #8
    terryc
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    Re: The X1

    This is great news. I will look forward to Terry's comments and the images from the Salton Sea workshop (wish I could join you folks). That said, ALL THE BEST for a great workshop.

    I chatted with my favorite local dealer and they had ordered a couple they expect to get (when they finally arrive) I asked if they had been pre-ordered by customers - to my surprise they had one available (on arrival) because they had a cancellation. Guess what happened next

    Like Terry I like the m4/3 cameras, having handled the X1 I really agree with the sentiment on simplicity and sheer quality of the X1.

    Best to all. Terry

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: The X1

    Terry has X1 in hand now. I see a purchase coming from her. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: The X1

    It was pouring here yesterday afternoon and evening so I didn't get out with it. From what I can see so far things I really like are the OOF rendering and the files look very good at the highest ISO. I like the simple menus that are like the M8.

    If you are used to working with the GF1 in terms of speed this is a different experience. It is slower.

    I decided to switch up my Avatar for a short time....LOL
    Last edited by Terry; 24th February 2010 at 06:10.

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    Re: The X1

    Terry, would you be more specific? What aspects are slower than the GF1?

  12. #12
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    Re: The X1

    Quote Originally Posted by tom in mpls View Post
    Terry, would you be more specific? What aspects are slower than the GF1?
    Start up/shut down/focus

    On the wow side is the essential complete silence.

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    Re: The X1

    Terry,

    I think you need to get the Ricoh GXR A-12 and Samsung NX so you can do a proper comparison. Sean was supposed to be reviewing the GXR but he hasn't been posting in quite a while now. I hope that doesn't mean that his health hasn't improved after the surgery.
    V/r John

  14. #14
    terryc
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    Re: The X1

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Start up/shut down/focus

    On the wow side is the essential complete silence.
    Thank you Terry. When I handled the X1 the quiet shutter release was almost deafening.

    It is becoming apparent that the GF-1 is the gold standard for speed. I think it will be for some time to come.

    (As an aside, I dropped my GF-1 (with help from a rowdy crowd) and picked it up of the cement sidewalk and away I went - it is still going strong.)

    Looking forward to more of your impressions.

    Cheers, Terry.

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    Re: The X1

    Quote Originally Posted by barjohn View Post
    Terry,

    I think you need to get the Ricoh GXR A-12 and Samsung NX so you can do a proper comparison. Sean was supposed to be reviewing the GXR but he hasn't been posting in quite a while now. I hope that doesn't mean that his health hasn't improved after the surgery.
    Well if you want to loan yours fine but I don't see buying one in the near future. I think Popflash may have had a loaner. I can give them a buzz. I've read bit on the Ricoh forum at DPReview. Again IQ and UI are excellent BUT camera function in serious need of improvement/firmware update....still the case? Not sure who has the NX in stock? I would love to give thr NX a try.

    I traded a couple of emails with Sean the other day and he is still working and recovering from surgery. I think first up are some Canon lenses followed by the GXR.
    Last edited by Terry; 24th February 2010 at 06:45.

  16. #16
    Senior Member barjohn's Avatar
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    Re: The X1

    I'm glad to hear Sean is doing well and recovering. Right now the GXR is my only camera, though I may buy an NX. If I do I would be happy to lend you the GXR for a comparison test.
    V/r John

  17. #17
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    Re: The X1

    To my knowledge we have no one on a waiting list for the X1, and we've had them on order since 9/9. I wonder how many they will ship us.

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    Re: The X1

    Terry, I really like the old Avatar a lot, but this one is very cute.

  19. #19
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    Re: The X1

    Honey, who shrunk the Leica?!?

  20. #20
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    Re: The X1

    Quote Originally Posted by bradhusick View Post
    Honey, who shrunk the Leica?!?
    It is really small. Not that much different in size than a GF1 but feels much smaller.

  21. #21
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    Re: The X1

    Is it *too* small? Do you have an LX3 for size reference?

  22. #22
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    Re: The X1

    I'm content with the gear I have, but I like the idea and love the design of the Leica X1. So I'm going to track this conversation and listen to what people think once they actually use the little beast to do photography.

    If it can become transparent in use and not get in the way, it would be an interesting, even lighter weight camera option for a certain range of my work.

  23. #23
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    Re: The X1

    It is not too small.
    In addition, the buttons on the left side are natural to me because my thumb rests along there so WB and ISO are very well located. There is nothing you really need the menus for (other than inital set up).

  24. #24
    Member roanjoh's Avatar
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    Re: The X1

    I had the Sigma DP1 once which gave absolutely stunning image quality, however, the slowness of the camera (mostly AF) really turned off. It also had an awful awful pop-up flash performance. In the end, the whole set-up was too limiting for me and it didn't give me that natural extension when taking photos. As much as I liked the weight and image quality, it was soon voted off the island after 3 months of use. I hope the Leica X1 will not run in this same route.

  25. #25
    Member roanjoh's Avatar
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    Re: The X1

    Terry - can you post sample images?

  26. #26
    terryc
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    Re: The X1

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    To my knowledge we have no one on a waiting list for the X1, and we've had them on order since 9/9. I wonder how many they will ship us.
    It would seem North America (Canada and USA) are last on the ship to list for Leica. I am curious as to why most of the rest of the known world has got them but not NA dealers. Such is life these days, perhaps something to do with the sagging Euro or the US dollar!

    Can you let us know when you get them - I just maybe a candidate (if you are willing to ship to Vancouver Canada)...

    Best to all. Terry

  27. #27
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    Re: The X1

    Yes, I ship everywhere.

    Our rep was chastised by the US Leica brass for making a statement that X1s would not be available til February. As it is, it looks like perhaps they won't be 'really' actually available in North America til March.

  28. #28
    terryc
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    Re: The X1

    Thank you, much appreciated.

  29. #29
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    Re: The X1

    Leica USA is currently backordered over 4500 M9s. The question is, will they be able to allocate production resources to X1 and S2? They can only build a few M9s a day (~100) to fill worldwide demand...

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    Re: The X1

    I look forward to your review Terry. I have already committed to getting the X1 based on my short time handling it at PhotoPlus and seeing the 20"x30" prints of photos that Christian took in Seattle. I just hope the camera's slowness doesn't drive me nuts - I am not the most patient person. The X1's small size, high ISO performance, and image quality are a set of qualities I have been wanting in a camera for a long time.

  31. #31
    Member jpmac55's Avatar
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    Re: The X1

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    To my knowledge we have no one on a waiting list for the X1, and we've had them on order since 9/9. I wonder how many they will ship us.
    Hey Monza, will your shop offer a wait list for the X1? I certainly wouldn't mind being first on it.
    John

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    Re: The X1

    Not too much from today....busy at work. Just getting myself acquainted, it will probably be more like the weekend when I can start posting real stuff and give real life feedback.

    Eva - ISO 125 (auto ISO) f2.8 1/30


    After work I was losing the light - fast. Stopped at the marina. Obviously very mixed lighting and nothing artistic trying to get a feel for how the camera renders.

    ISO 100 f2.8 1/3 camera resting on a rail.


    Wanted to see this at f8.0 ISO 800 1/2 second


    Also wanted to see what happened if I intentially threw it out of focus f3.2


    Facing the other direction without mixed light.
    ISO 800 f8.0 2.5 seconds

    Last edited by Terry; 24th February 2010 at 20:30.

  33. #33
    Member roanjoh's Avatar
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    Re: The X1

    Terry - absolutely gorgeous shots!!! That is plenty sharp even at 2.8 (I'm assuming that is wide open). Color look vibrant and ISO 800 looks clean. They might have a winner here in terms of image quality. Now waiting to hear from you regarding handling and speed.

    Thanks!!

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: The X1

    Damn why did i let leica send it to you instead of me to do the review. LOL

    Damn they look great, nice work. You just might have to let me play we with it at Salton Sea. Just for a minute i promise. LOL

    Terry will also be providing Leica with some images as well so do look for them coming. And look for her review right here on GetDPI.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  35. #35
    terryc
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    Re: The X1

    Hi folks,

    I got an X1 today - battery is charging as I write this. The packaging is truly amazing. So Leica did manage to get them out before March after all.

    Can hardly wait to take it out for a spin.

    Best to all. Terry C.

  36. #36
    terryc
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    Re: The X1

    Hi Terry,

    Thank you for posting those GREAT images. Have fun! I know I am going to.

    Cheers, Terry C.

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    Re: The X1

    terryc - are you in the US?

  38. #38
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    Re: The X1

    Just got word we have two en route.

  39. #39
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    Re: The X1

    Quote Originally Posted by terryc View Post
    Hi Terry,

    Thank you for posting those GREAT images. Have fun! I know I am going to.

    Cheers, Terry C.
    Congrats Terry - is yours from a US or Canadian dealer?
    Please post your images here as well.

    The files look great on my computer. Wasn't wild about a couple of skin tones on LR3 but Aperture also added support today so I will try the same file there as well. Some of it is probably WB setting.

    With the ISO being good so high I do have an auto ISO suggestion for Leica. Currently, the fastest shutter allowed (where the camera will boost up ISO) is 1/30. I would like it to go higher. In some shooting situations, I don't mind going high into the ISO range but want to make sure I stop the subject movement. A 1/60 or 1/125 option would be really useful. Also, Auto ISO in manual mode would be useful. Right now it seems to default to ISO 800 and shows you how over/under exposed you will be. Let me know if you figure out anything different with Auto ISO in manual mode (neither dial set to A).

    The metering seems very good.

    Be curious to see your thoughts between the jpegs/raws. I have everything at standard and am liking the jpeg colors so far. I don't usually even shoot jpegs but Leica obvioulsly wants us to.

    The focus is definitely slower than the uber speedy G1/GH1/GF1. What I need to work out some more is shutter lag. There seems to be a bit more than comfortable. Sean Reid has written about setting up the camera to minimize. I need to go back and reread his review.

    It is very nicely made!

  40. #40
    terryc
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    Re: The X1

    Hi Terry,

    I got it from a Canadian dealer in Vancouver Canada. It just maybe the only X1 among the area Leica dealers the way I hear it.

    I couldn't resist and put the battery in. I have noticed that shooting DNG+JPG brings up the DATA TRANSFER box while it writes and you have to wait until it finishes - a firmware upgrade might be to allow DNG only files - that said I like what I am seeing from the Super Fine JPGS.

    It is feels like a like Leica and reminds of the early pre-rangefinder Leica's of years gone by.

    From a speed perspective the AF is no match for the GF1 but it is NOT all the far off the Pen. More important the manual focus set-up is very usable as (hyper focal) I would be interested in your view of the manual focus and usability in hyper focal mode.

    Cheers. Terry.

  41. #41
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    Re: The X1

    I think manual focus will be good with hyperfocal but with a firmware tweak. The distance from 2 meters to infinity is so small that you really can't tell where you are. I think they need to spread out the scale a little bit. That being said I haven't actually looked at the hyperfocals at different apertures to see how simple it will be at about f8.

  42. #42
    terryc
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    Re: The X1

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gowin View Post
    terryc - are you in the US?

    Hi Mark,

    Vancouver, Canada.

    Cheers, Terry

  43. #43
    henricus34
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    Re: The X1

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    I think manual focus will be good with hyperfocal but with a firmware tweak. The distance from 2 meters to infinity is so small that you really can't tell where you are. I think they need to spread out the scale a little bit. That being said I haven't actually looked at the hyperfocals at different apertures to see how simple it will be at about f8.
    Terry

    i made a small test a couple of days ago,results were more than ok.

    The following settings of camera
    Camera set to shutoff at 10 min
    Camera on MF and set on 2m (just set at 2m no focussing)
    Then took pictures with opening 2,8 - 4 - 5,6
    Result at 2,8 sharpness from 1,8 m to 3 m
    4 " " 1,8 m to 4,5 m
    5,6 " " 1,8 m to 7 m
    Sharpness by 100% enlargement
    I DID NOT TRY f 8 since above distances are ok for me.
    The camera shutoff after 10 min,suggest to make a extra picture after lets say 8 - 9 min, and delete that pic afterwards.

    Hope this is a help for you

    Regards

    Harry

  44. #44
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    Re: The X1

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    I think manual focus will be good with hyperfocal but with a firmware tweak. The distance from 2 meters to infinity is so small that you really can't tell where you are. I think they need to spread out the scale a little bit. That being said I haven't actually looked at the hyperfocals at different apertures to see how simple it will be at about f8.
    Hi Terry
    I wonder if it's changed since I had one - my problem was that the manual focus took about 5923 turns to get from 2 metres to close up, and that every time you switched to manual it reverted to infinity - which meant it was really pretty useless.

    My other big bugbear was that if you wanted to do manual exposure, the (very nice) little exposure meter didn't come up on the screen until you had half pressed the shutter AND achieved focus, and if you didn't watch it it promptly disappeared again!

    Those pictures look great - - - - I hope you're going to do a direct comparison between the GF1 with the 20 f1.7 and the Leica. (same scenes etc.)

    all the best

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: The X1

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi Terry
    I wonder if it's changed since I had one - my problem was that the manual focus took about 5923 turns to get from 2 metres to close up, and that every time you switched to manual it reverted to infinity - which meant it was really pretty useless.

    My other big bugbear was that if you wanted to do manual exposure, the (very nice) little exposure meter didn't come up on the screen until you had half pressed the shutter AND achieved focus, and if you didn't watch it it promptly disappeared again!

    Those pictures look great - - - - I hope you're going to do a direct comparison between the GF1 with the 20 f1.7 and the Leica. (same scenes etc.)

    all the best
    Jono,
    Your first two points are spot on and haven't changed. I know Sean went through the AF/MF in great detail and want to reread his set-up suggestions. The other bit that disappears too quickly when you stop making the 5000th turn is the magnified area for MF.

    The files do look really nice coming right out of the camera. The operation of the camera is worth the effort to figure out.

  46. #46
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    Re: The X1

    Quote Originally Posted by henricus34 View Post
    Terry

    i made a small test a couple of days ago,results were more than ok.

    The following settings of camera
    Camera set to shutoff at 10 min
    Camera on MF and set on 2m (just set at 2m no focussing)
    Then took pictures with opening 2,8 - 4 - 5,6
    Result at 2,8 sharpness from 1,8 m to 3 m
    4 " " 1,8 m to 4,5 m
    5,6 " " 1,8 m to 7 m
    Sharpness by 100% enlargement
    I DID NOT TRY f 8 since above distances are ok for me.
    The camera shutoff after 10 min,suggest to make a extra picture after lets say 8 - 9 min, and delete that pic afterwards.

    Hope this is a help for you

    Regards

    Harry
    Harry, this is super helpful. I will use this and then try what happens right in the middle between the 2m and infinity mark.

  47. #47
    terryc
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    Re: The X1

    Greetings,

    I managed to take the X1 out yesterday - a rather cold wet day on the west coast.

    I shot exclusively with manual focus set at 2 meters (zone focusing) and I am using a Voightlander 28/35 mini viewfinder, as an aside - it would nice to have the hand grip but I have a feeling that will prove to be as illusive as the camera itself. The mini finder works well and keeps the camera foot print small.

    In my humble opinion - some things need a tweak or two. One that is really mystifying - when the camera goes to sleep or is turned off the manual focus reverts to infinity from whatever setting the user had it set to. I would concur with Terry's comments that the scale needs some refinement. Something Ricoh does well is "snap" or zone focus which can be added to a function key and you can quickly swap between auto focus and "snap" zone focus. This mitigates the "slow af" for some shooting situations. The X1 af is pretty close to the GRDIII af speed from my simple tests.

    The IQ is outstanding - I shot primarily at 800 ISO and honestly could not believe how clean the images are. It is a fun camera to shoot and the interface is simple - some would argue to simple The images will size-up extremely well thanks to the APS-C sensor.

    Best to all. Terry

  48. #48
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    Re: The X1

    First X1 arrived today. The packaging is really slick, as mentioned above: magnetic doors, three levels, two drawers.

    But the real test is in the field. More to come...

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    Re: The X1

    Saw an X-1 the other day. Packaging must be worth a good part of the $ 2K price.

    Camera seemed moderately slow in focus. It was sold so I couldn't use a SD card to review the results.

    Martin

  50. #50
    DougDolde
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    Re: The X1

    Seems like a lot of money for a fixed focal length lens camera. But then I guess the whole thing is cheaper than the average Leica lens.

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