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Thread: Modular APO Telyts

  1. #1
    Senior Member doug's Avatar
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    Modular APO Telyts

    The typical selling price of these lenses leads me to believe I've lost my mind but I'm interested in replacing my f/6.8 Telyts with the 400mm f/4 Modular APO Telyt. I'd use the 1.4x and 2x APO extenders when I want to use a longer focal length.

    Does anyone have experience with the 400mm f/4? With APO extenders? The reason I want to make the switch is I'm increasingly frustrated by the image quality I've been getting with the old f/6.8 Telyts. I suppose it's my fault because I was perfectly happy with them until I started using the 280mm f/4 APO on the DMR.

    All comments and/or insight is welcome. Maybe I need a cold shower.

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Modular APO Telyts

    Doug

    I have the complete modular telyt system and both APO converters. The small head 280/2.8-400/4-560/5.6 and the 1.4X module gives you the 400/4. It is the pick of the litter IMHO . It is the sharpest lens I have ever used.

    I did use the small head-1.4module-1.4X to give me a 560/5.6 but not enough to say how much I was losing .

    These were Kurt s lenses and he might have an opinion....but I know the 400/4 combination is the best .

    I used to shoot the birds with my father using the 6.8 telyts ..we had both the 400 and the 560.....but haven t used the modular system for wildlife....just surfing and baseball.

    If you would like t test them I am sure we could help you do that . I am about 10 miles from PBI airport in Florida....and I have the entire set ,DMR etc.

    Roger

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    Re: Modular APO Telyts

    There are some good birding locations near Roger, especially this time of year.

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    Subscriber Member jaapv's Avatar
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    Re: Modular APO Telyts

    Guys-please - first Doug finds out that older Telyts cover 645 aka S2 - now you are promoting the modular APO system. Have you no regard for my bank manager's heart condition? Last year already saw the purchase of an Summilux 24, a Summilux 50 asph and an M9 - now this!
    JAAP
    http://www.jaapvphotography.eu
    The colours of my generation are black and white.

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    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
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    Re: Modular APO Telyts

    Quote Originally Posted by doug View Post
    The typical selling price of these lenses leads me to believe I've lost my mind but I'm interested in replacing my f/6.8 Telyts with the 400mm f/4 Modular APO Telyt. I'd use the 1.4x and 2x APO extenders when I want to use a longer focal length.

    Does anyone have experience with the 400mm f/4? With APO extenders? The reason I want to make the switch is I'm increasingly frustrated by the image quality I've been getting with the old f/6.8 Telyts. I suppose it's my fault because I was perfectly happy with them until I started using the 280mm f/4 APO on the DMR.

    All comments and/or insight is welcome. Maybe I need a cold shower.
    Doug,
    The system is great; I have all five components and use both set ups (I have the R9/DMR and as you may know, I am crazy for systems that use the R mount even with adapters.
    I use with Kodak SLRc (really rich colors, adapter with focus confirm), a Sigma 14 with leica body mount (from the guy in fla-interesting color, like the Kodak, smoother) and the P65+

    This lens on the truwide doesnt fill the P65 but I think that is the failing of the Kapturegroup design (I am going to discuss with Keith when I can) but the P45+ had little vignetting and was really great. The P65+ still gets over 40MP and the detail is amazing.
    at the risk of redundancy hetre s the setup and a 100% crop (from 100feet away!)

    lots to like; I bought about half used so maybe 15k. I assume prices much lower now
    also dont forget the pre modular 2.8s 280 and 400.

    Victor

    PS sorry about the color; its adobe not converted to sRGB

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    Senior Member doug's Avatar
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    Re: Modular APO Telyts

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    Doug

    I have the complete modular telyt system and both APO converters. The small head 280/2.8-400/4-560/5.6 and the 1.4X module gives you the 400/4. It is the pick of the litter IMHO . It is the sharpest lens I have ever used.

    I did use the small head-1.4module-1.4X to give me a 560/5.6 but not enough to say how much I was losing .

    These were Kurt s lenses and he might have an opinion....but I know the 400/4 combination is the best .

    I used to shoot the birds with my father using the 6.8 telyts ..we had both the 400 and the 560.....but haven t used the modular system for wildlife....just surfing and baseball.

    If you would like t test them I am sure we could help you do that . I am about 10 miles from PBI airport in Florida....and I have the entire set ,DMR etc.

    Roger
    Thank you for the offer, Roger! At this point it's a wild fantasy but who knows what creative financing will become available. Would love to be able to use it under field conditions (I'll skip the kayak though!) before laying out that much money.

  7. #7
    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
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    Re: Modular APO Telyts

    Doug,

    Just curious why you are thinking beyond the 400/6.8; is it the lens speed? (2-3 stops, yes) handling (the telescoping focus I find a trick, but you seem to have matered it. or are you in some way disappointed with IQ?

    Victor

    PS Let's see if this fixes the color space. BTW, you get more 'reach' and speed with the Modular set, but I think the drawing of the 400/6.8 has a more natural feel. I suppose I could change the "look", but to me, the Modular is more Zeiss like than Leica. I Leica them both. :-)

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    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
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    Re: Modular APO Telyts

    Here's where I think the Modular really shines, with the R8-9/DMR

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    Senior Member otumay's Avatar
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    Re: Modular APO Telyts

    I get your point; lovely.

  10. #10
    Senior Member doug's Avatar
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    Re: Modular APO Telyts

    Quote Originally Posted by gogopix View Post
    Just curious why you are thinking beyond the 400/6.8; is it the lens speed? (2-3 stops, yes) handling (the telescoping focus I find a trick, but you seem to have matered it. or are you in some way disappointed with IQ?
    There are a number of things that are bothering me now. The biggest is the manual aperture. With the DMR (up to ISO 400) I can use smaller apertures while maintaining reasonably fast shutter speeds. I lost too much image quality with ISO 400 film so I rarely had an opportunity to stop the lens down before. Maybe it's because I'm rapidly approaching 60 years old, but focussing accurately at smaller working apertures is not fun.

    Also I've been getting some really funky green/magenta fringing in the OOF areas that I can't adequately treat in processing. Also magenta fringing at high-contrast edges.

    About a year ago I had an opportunity to photograph these boobies (I didn't name them!) in Hawaii:





    I had both the 280mm f/4 APO with extenders, and the 560mm f/6.8 Telyt. The 280 with extender was much more productive.

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    Re: Modular APO Telyts

    Doug, I was playing around the other day with my Canon 500mm f4 IS and was very surprised to find that it appears to cover the sensor size of the Leica S2. Just out of curiosity, I took my Canon body of the lens, held up my S2 to it and the image filled the viewfinder. I kept a bit of a gap between the lens and body as if to simulate an adapter. I haven't researched the register distances and have no idea if infinity focus would be possible. Of course there are no adapters available for the S2 yet and it is doubtful there will be a Canon adapter, but at least I can hope. I know the Canon 500mm is no Leica APO, but I already own the lens and it would be great to be able to use it with the S2. A Canon to S2 adapter would also allow use of the Canon 17mm TSE which is getting good reviews.

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    Re: Modular APO Telyts

    Victor, the last version did the trick for the color of the cardinal, but he is looking a bit rough. Bad hair (err, feather) day?.

  13. #13
    Senior Member doug's Avatar
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    Re: Modular APO Telyts

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gowin View Post
    ... I haven't researched the register distances and have no idea if infinity focus would be possible...
    Very unlikely. The Canon EOS mount register is among the shortest, and the S2's larger mirror suggests its mount register is quite a bit bigger.

  14. #14
    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
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    Re: Modular APO Telyts

    Quote Originally Posted by doug View Post
    Very unlikely. The Canon EOS mount register is among the shortest, and the S2's larger mirror suggests its mount register is quite a bit bigger.
    Right. That is why it goes the other way; Laica lenses on Canon bodies.

    I still think there is an option for a 'reverse extender' that could compensate optically (when you put in a 1.4x, you violate the registry distance, but the extender optical formula takes care of that.

    No reason (except canibalizing sales) Leica couldn't create a universal, 1x extender to allow "R" lenses on S2; or a third party could do that

  15. #15
    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
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    Re: Modular APO Telyts

    Quote Originally Posted by doug View Post
    There are a number of things that are bothering me now. The biggest is the manual aperture. With the DMR (up to ISO 400) I can use smaller apertures while maintaining reasonably fast shutter speeds. I lost too much image quality with ISO 400 film so I rarely had an opportunity to stop the lens down before. Maybe it's because I'm rapidly approaching 60 years old, but focussing accurately at smaller working apertures is not fun.

    Also I've been getting some really funky green/magenta fringing in the OOF areas that I can't adequately treat in processing. Also magenta fringing at high-contrast edges.

    About a year ago I had an opportunity to photograph these boobies (I didn't name them!) in Hawaii:





    I had both the 280mm f/4 APO with extenders, and the 560mm f/6.8 Telyt. The 280 with extender was much more productive.
    Please, Doug, don't tell me you HANDHELD the 280 w extender

  16. #16
    Senior Member doug's Avatar
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    Re: Modular APO Telyts

    Quote Originally Posted by gogopix View Post
    Please, Doug, don't tell me you HANDHELD the 280 w extender
    Shoulder stock.

    Victor, can you describe how you see the 'Zeiss' look vs. the 'Leica' look?

  17. #17
    Subscriber gogopix's Avatar
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    Re: Modular APO Telyts

    Quote Originally Posted by doug View Post
    Shoulder stock.

    Victor, can you describe how you see the 'Zeiss' look vs. the 'Leica' look?
    Obviously subjective, but I have always found Leica lenses have a slightly warm vs Zeiss cooler balance.
    It may be that the zeiss lenses appear 'razor sharp' because the blue end is well behaved and sharp (though reds ceratinly arent fuzzy.)
    On the Leica side the focusing of all parts of the spectrum are balanced, and to my eye are a bit smoother without being unsharp.
    One of the reasons I like the DMR on the modulars is that it richens the look without sacrificing detail and sharpness.
    Probably sounds like 'lip flapping" ... for my next trick I am going to attempt to describe the difference between Bordeaux and Burgundy

    Victor

    PS In above cardinal shot seems more detailed but is a litle flat..on the Phase
    the next is DMR and is overall more satifying; feathers are better in 2nd, image is 'sharper' in 1st
    with the Zeiss superachromats I find I really need to 'warm up' the image. Leica lenses get 3-D look but aren't 'analytical' looking (blah blah blah :-)
    SO, maybe more the sensor than the lens
    BTW, Robert (in CA) has many good handheld shots with the 280 apo
    Last edited by gogopix; 25th February 2010 at 09:48.

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