Site Sponsors
Results 1 to 40 of 40

Thread: Using the M8 the traditional way

  1. #1
    Subscriber Member jaapv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    770
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    250

    Using the M8 the traditional way

    Maybe it should be in another forum, but there is no image critique forum (yet??)
    I tried to get into the Leica M tradition here....Be kind, I'm still trying to get into this street photography thing.

    Getting water in the Township

    Last edited by jaapv; 25th November 2007 at 15:52.
    JAAP
    http://www.jaapvphotography.eu
    The colours of my generation are black and white.

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    103
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    38

    Re: Using the M8 the traditional way

    Very nice; you seem to be a quick learner if this type of photography is new to you. DR

  3. #3
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Using the M8 the traditional way

    Jaap one thing I might have done right off the bat was get lower down to there level. Which takes you into there space if you know what i mean. a good lesson for all is try to get away sometimes from eye level and get into dog view which adds some dimension.

    We can certainly use the Gallery section under a image there is room for comments which maybe a different spot than normal but perfectly a logical place for comments and such. I have made several comments like this for some images. There maybe some tools Jack and I can set up to know there are comments that go with each image. We will look into that
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  4. #4
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: Using the M8 the traditional way

    Hi Jaap!

    Re the whole critique thing, that was one of the main reasons for setting up the forum software the way we did. Note that the gallery software allows for comments, and those comments run under the main image just like threads do here!

    The way I'd suggest using it is to use the BBcode link and post it under the section for the camera you used. So right here, start an M8 post for the image above, and link it to your gallery where we can all comment.

    Here is the thumbnail link to one of my images as an expample. Note that I copy the BB code right under the image I want critiqued and paste it here, that's it!

    Here's the example BB code "clickable" thumb, note it takes you directly to the image in my gallery and I left a sample comment under that image in the gallery:




    Cheers,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  5. #5
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: Using the M8 the traditional way

    Now re your image... I like it. With street though, I think it's better to get in closer to your subject, especailly if you're using the wider-angle lenses.

    One trick with a wide, is to get down to their level and close, but point the camera not directly at them --- the wideangle lens will generally then have the main subject at a golden mean. With longer lenses, I frame and focus pointing at something close to my intended subject, then right before I click, I re-compose to center the subject, make the shot then move away. Usually, the mian subject never knows they were a subjuct. That was the tactic I used above with the kids dancing image, taken with my 50 Lux on the M8...
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  6. #6
    Subscriber Member jaapv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    770
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    250

    Re: Using the M8 the traditional way

    Thanks for the tips, guys.

    I got this one from a lower point of view:

    Personally I don't mind the blown highlight, but others may differ.

    JAAP
    http://www.jaapvphotography.eu
    The colours of my generation are black and white.

  7. #7
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Using the M8 the traditional way

    Jaap here i tried a couple things , re cropped and did some burning and dodging to bring the kids out on the right
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  8. #8
    Subscriber Member jaapv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    770
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    250

    Re: Using the M8 the traditional way

    I know, Guy I need to work on my PS skills especially in B&W....
    JAAP
    http://www.jaapvphotography.eu
    The colours of my generation are black and white.

  9. #9
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Maggie O's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Standards Are Down All Over
    Posts
    3,064
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Using the M8 the traditional way

    Jaap, I quite like the first photo; it nicely captures the mis en scene of the township and the characters are arranged in a very pleasing geometry, each projecting a distinct personality.

    I might have "printed" it a bit darker, but with the same contrast, or increased the contrast at current levels, but that's a minor quibble.

  10. #10
    Member Hank Graber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    178
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Using the M8 the traditional way

    Jaap,

    That first image is beautiful. But you have to work that digital negative. I've taken the liberty. A bit of dodging and burning and selective contrast enhancement.

    Attachment 638

  11. #11
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Maggie O's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Standards Are Down All Over
    Posts
    3,064
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Using the M8 the traditional way

    Yeah! Now that's what I'm talking about!

    Well printed, Hank!

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Fort Collins, Colorado
    Posts
    2,077
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Using the M8 the traditional way

    One of my favorites. Grandkids doing their stuff.

    Woody

  13. #13
    Sean_Reid
    Guest

    Re: Using the M8 the traditional way

    Quote Originally Posted by Hank Graber View Post
    Jaap,

    That first image is beautiful. But you have to work that digital negative. I've taken the liberty. A bit of dodging and burning and selective contrast enhancement.

    Attachment 638
    Nice print Hank.

    Jaap,

    I actually think your vantage point works very well because we see each of those foreground figures distinctly against that clay ground. I think the pictures gets visually confused with that figure behind the basket but that's only place where I think it falters other than the passage above the fence line (and the way the man's head connects with it).

    You know that I don't think there is any such thing as "street photography" but did you see the article called On "Street Photography"? Its relevant to what you're doing in this picture.

    Cheers,

    Sean

  14. #14
    Sean_Reid
    Guest

    Re: Using the M8 the traditional way

    Quote Originally Posted by jaapv View Post
    Thanks for the tips, guys.

    I got this one from a lower point of view:

    Personally I don't mind the blown highlight, but others may differ.

    May I make an alternate cropping of your second picture? And, in this picture, I don't think the blown highlights are a problem at all.

    This picture is very well resolved, visually, from foreground to background. I think you're really using that window view that an RF camera gives us. It's one reason I primarily work with RF cameras.

    Cheers,

    Sean

  15. #15
    Member Hank Graber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    178
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Using the M8 the traditional way

    You can use local manipulation of tone and contrast to provide more structure and hierarchy to your image. Darkening the foreground enhances the sense of perspective and 3D effect as the far background is lighter and flatter. It draws you into the image.

    Increasing the contrast on the central figures makes them the focus of the stage.

    Attachment 646

  16. #16
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Maggie O's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Standards Are Down All Over
    Posts
    3,064
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Using the M8 the traditional way

    How do you do that, Hank?

  17. #17
    Sean_Reid
    Guest

    Re: Using the M8 the traditional way

    Quote Originally Posted by Hank Graber View Post
    You can use local manipulation of tone and contrast to provide more structure and hierarchy to your image. Darkening the foreground enhances the sense of perspective and 3D effect as the far background is lighter and flatter. It draws you into the image.

    Increasing the contrast on the central figures makes them the focus of the stage.

    Attachment 646
    For my own taste, I wouldn't increase the contrast so much on the area with the figures but I like what you did to make that foreground area active. I'd still want to bring the bottom edge up though.

    Cheers,

    Sean

  18. #18
    Member Hank Graber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    178
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Using the M8 the traditional way

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean_Reid View Post
    For my own taste, I wouldn't increase the contrast so much on the area with the figures but I like what you did to make that foreground area active. I'd still want to bring the bottom edge up though.

    Cheers,

    Sean
    It's a bit over the top overall but working from a jpeg is not ideal. You want to be careful that the image doesn't start looking 'enhanced'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maggie O View Post
    How do you do that, Hank?
    With a tiny file like this I can do 20 changes in 10 minutes.

    I start with a global curve adjustment to make sure the histogram is full range and the midtone is where I want it and the tone curve shape is suited for the images tonality.

    Then I use soft masks for the local adjustments. I airbrush to make masks also cut masks and then blur the mask in mask mode to get a soft mask. You don't need to be precise with really wide soft edges. Just be careful that it doesn't start to look dodged or burned in. Applying some unsharp with say a really large radius of 60 and width of 10-20 will separate tones and pop highlites.

    If you don't have to follow some contour you can switch to mask mode create a vignette and use it as a mask to gradually go to darker in the foregrounds. It's all the digital equivalent of dodging and burning in the darkroom but better with more control and flexibility.

    I have been at this for a while. Worked on the first commercial paint systems long before photoshop. I owned a color prepress retouching business in the 80's in NYC - L'Oreal, Revlon, Cartier, Mercedes Benz were some of my clients.

  19. #19
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Maggie O's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Standards Are Down All Over
    Posts
    3,064
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Using the M8 the traditional way

    Thanks Hank. Though to confess, I only understood about a quarter of that. Looks like I've got LOTS to learn.

  20. #20
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Using the M8 the traditional way

    Workshop Maggie. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  21. #21
    Shootist
    Guest

    Re: Using the M8 the traditional way

    Quote Originally Posted by Maggie O View Post
    Thanks Hank. Though to confess, I only understood about a quarter of that. Looks like I've got LOTS to learn.
    Maggie don't feel bad. I've read at least 4 books on photoshop and taken 2 classes on it and I'm still learning, actually I feel like a PS dunce.
    It's something that if you don't use it all the time you forget. You start something and say to yourself "Just how did I do that last time"????

  22. #22
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Terry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    6,955
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1145

    Re: Using the M8 the traditional way

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Workshop Maggie. LOL
    Actually Guy,
    A workshop that has a focus for these sort of enhancements would be great. I'm not necessarily talking about learning how to make a mask but more understanding what Hank said about darkening the foreground to draw you in.

    A better understanding of what to think about doing to an image. There are times when you know an image needs that little (or sometimes a lot) of something but you don't really know what is lacking and where is the best place to start.

    terry

  23. #23
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Using the M8 the traditional way

    That is exactly what you will learn in Moab . I have a whole series on composition and techniques like this. Plus what Jack has on all the really cool stuff. Trust me your head will be spinning , we go through a ton of instruction. Raw processing, Photoshop , composition, histograms, Lightroom library and all sorts of really useful stuff. You will learn about selections and using special techniques on burning and dodging.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  24. #24
    Subscriber Member jaapv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    770
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    250

    Re: Using the M8 the traditional way

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    That is exactly what you will learn in Moab . I have a whole series on composition and techniques like this. Plus what Jack has on all the really cool stuff. Trust me your head will be spinning , we go through a ton of instruction. Raw processing, Photoshop , composition, histograms, Lightroom library and all sorts of really useful stuff. You will learn about selections and using special techniques on burning and dodging.
    I can't turn around to do something else and things start happening over here! i'm amazed what could be done to that photograph and glad it was deemed good enough. A pity these workshops are half the world away...
    JAAP
    http://www.jaapvphotography.eu
    The colours of my generation are black and white.

  25. #25
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Using the M8 the traditional way

    France and Italy are in the talking stage
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  26. #26
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Using the M8 the traditional way

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Actually Guy,
    A workshop that has a focus for these sort of enhancements would be great. I'm not necessarily talking about learning how to make a mask but more understanding what Hank said about darkening the foreground to draw you in.

    A better understanding of what to think about doing to an image. There are times when you know an image needs that little (or sometimes a lot) of something but you don't really know what is lacking and where is the best place to start.

    terry
    Terry but even with these nice PS techniques and such the best way to draw people in is in composition and light and that is huge . The section on composition is really quite interesting
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  27. #27
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Maggie O's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Standards Are Down All Over
    Posts
    3,064
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Using the M8 the traditional way

    OK, now if someone will find me the time and money....

  28. #28
    Subscriber Member jaapv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    770
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    250

    Re: Using the M8 the traditional way

    Quote Originally Posted by Maggie O View Post
    OK, now if someone will find me the time and money....
    Ditto
    JAAP
    http://www.jaapvphotography.eu
    The colours of my generation are black and white.

  29. #29
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Using the M8 the traditional way

    Stop buying all that glass. LOL Actually cheaper than the new Summarits
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  30. #30
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,338
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    52

    Re: Using the M8 the traditional way

    forget France and Ialy - do on down here in Australia - that way it is easier for me to join a class! look up Kakadu for example...

  31. #31
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Terry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    6,955
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1145

    Re: Using the M8 the traditional way

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    forget France and Ialy - do on down here in Australia - that way it is easier for me to join a class! look up Kakadu for example...
    While Italy and France would be nice, what a great excuse to finally get to Australia!

    terry

  32. #32
    Subscriber Member jaapv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    770
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    250

    Re: Using the M8 the traditional way

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Stop buying all that glass. LOL Actually cheaper than the new Summarits
    I haven't bought a new lens for WEEKS!!!
    JAAP
    http://www.jaapvphotography.eu
    The colours of my generation are black and white.

  33. #33
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Terry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    6,955
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1145

    Re: Using the M8 the traditional way

    Quote Originally Posted by jaapv View Post
    I haven't bought a new lens for WEEKS!!!
    Wow, I need to get more creative in my use of smiles

  34. #34
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: Using the M8 the traditional way

    Speaking of OZ, I was actually thinking maybe do a New Zealand trip next November. I have a friend who has a lodge on South Island down by Duneden Peter, that's a doable air hop for you isn't it?

    Terry: Just to piggy-back on what Guy said, we are for sure going to cover lots of image enhancement techniques with Photoshop in Moab! The first morning is to get everybody up to speed on raw with LR or ACR and even a little look at C1. The folks that were in Yosemite already got that and learned some basic local image adjustment techniques. I'll cover those again along with some new techniques, but am happy to have an added evening session for anybody that wants to get more of that type instruction. Short version, is there will not be enough time to do everything, but we will cram a bunch into the time we do have! LOLOLOL!
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  35. #35
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Fort Collins, Colorado
    Posts
    2,077
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Using the M8 the traditional way

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Actually Guy,
    A workshop that has a focus for these sort of enhancements would be great. I'm not necessarily talking about learning how to make a mask but more understanding what Hank said about darkening the foreground to draw you in.

    A better understanding of what to think about doing to an image. There are times when you know an image needs that little (or sometimes a lot) of something but you don't really know what is lacking and where is the best place to start.

    terry
    After working with Jack at the Yosemite workshop I asked (Nay begged) him to put together a workshop for Photoshop for practical photographers. Get out of the "all the things that can be done in Photoshop" approach and toward what the practical photographer needs to know to use Photoshop to process great images. This would be killer and if done i already want to be the first to subscribe. C'mon Jack

    Woody

  36. #36
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    carstenw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    2,530
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Using the M8 the traditional way

    If you guys do France or Italy, I am in. Are you talking Provence and Toscana, or what is the deal?
    Carsten - Website

  37. #37
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: Using the M8 the traditional way

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    If you guys do France or Italy, I am in. Are you talking Provence and Toscana, or what is the deal?
    Hi Carsten:

    Actually, I have a 10-day Provence workshop all planned out, complete with lodging and transportation. It would feature guest instructor Lucien Clergue and include a day of shooting wild horses on the beaches of the Cremargue along with figure models; a second figure model shoot in the limestone cliffs of Les Beaux; custom private tours of the Van Gough museum and historic churches of Arles; Arles, Nimes and Avignon market and street modules; front row seating at the bullfights in Nimes (for any who wanted to participate), and a host of other day trip locations, like up in the Luberon valley. In addition, we'd have at least two or three gourmet dinners at top-rated restaurants in the area. The biggest problem is the value of the dollar is so low right now, we in the States can't do it affordably...

    I also have a 10-day trip sketched out for Tuscany and the coastal area of Liguria. I don't have the particulars finalized as I'm again waiting on the dollar to resurge a bit. I'm hoping these two trips could be done more economically by spring or fall of 2009, at least that's my hope. If not, we may do them anyway and they'll just be expensive

    Cheers,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  38. #38
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    carstenw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    2,530
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Using the M8 the traditional way

    Lucien Clergue! I just saw an exhibition of his in the Kunstmuseum Wien, and loved it! A very unique eye. I also got a reproduction of one of his photos in fotoMagazin this month. What a coincidence. How much would such a course cost? I need to start saving and talking the girlfriend into it, perhaps together. She also enjoys photography very much, although at a different level.
    Carsten - Website

  39. #39
    Subscriber Member jaapv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    770
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    250

    Re: Using the M8 the traditional way

    Or do a sideprogram for partners; my wife is not into photography at all; she could be though with an excellent eye and often points shots out to me.
    JAAP
    http://www.jaapvphotography.eu
    The colours of my generation are black and white.

  40. #40
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Using the M8 the traditional way

    Actually the non shooting spouses we would have tours, shopping and a bus just for them to do there thing while we are busy shooting and such.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •