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Thread: New 35 Lux announced

  1. #51
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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    Focus shift or not, do let me know if any of you are looking to let go of your summilux. I've been drooling for one for weeks.

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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    WTF does wanting to have your equipment perform in a consistent manner have to do with pixel peeping. quite another to suggest that "pixel peeping" is the end in itself. Thats damn insulting .

    Focus shift is just one of many factors that can affect sharpness and IQ. What makes it particularly bothersome is that its hard for the photographer to adapt. This takes away getting into the flow and letting the photographer focus on the key elements in the photograph. Sure Jono can learn to adjust for the focus shift on his Zeiss sonnar but damn it better be a great lens to be fiddling with the focus point instead of seeing the photograph. (I believe he came to the same conclusion).

    I don t start out testing every lens and body combination and I don t waste my time doing "stupid ruler tests" just for the hell of it. I look at the images . I keep track of the edits. Like it or not I loose otherwise excellent images because I missed the focus point needed to "make the photograph work". The goal is always to have adequate sharpness to make the image work as a photograph ....please don t imply otherwise by labeling my discussion as pixel peeping.

    But lets not confuse any of the facts with a good hardy opinion based discussion of a new lens. Lets ignore the references to E Puts who has set the standard for lens testing for how many years? IMHO and thats all we have here since we know facts are not considered relevant....Puts did a good job showing the impact of focus shift on image quality . Or the tests that Sean Reid does where he shows that accurate focus (harder to do with focus shift) has more impact on lens performance that the difference between any of the current 35mm lenses from leica,zeiss or cv.

    Or even Diglloyd.....he takes quite a lot of pride in his testing (so that you don t have to waste your time) . He isn t a rangefinder guy..his normal kit would be Nikon or Canon DSLR. I could see him struggle (like many on this forum) with the M9 . Lens tests ruined by misfocusing...results that just don t reflect any consensus on lens performance. (e.g.does anyone think that the 35 asph summicron is anything but very sharp?) Now after a dozen tests he is sending his M9 and the noctilux,21 and 24 summiluxes back to Leica for calibration. Sometimes it takes a while to understand what it takes with a particular system to create sharp images.

    I spend a lot of time looking at great photographers and top rate image oriented websites(not reading MTF charts or shooting rulers) ...sharpness rarely makes the image (dried paint is dried paint) but lack of sharpness can kill an otherwise excellent photograph.
    Spare me your expletives but just for fun I will respond to your macho question/statements

    1. sharpness / adequate sharpness ( pick your adjectival qualifier ) is over rated by hack shooters and geek heads
    2.a different point of view is not an insult
    3. like I said regarding your ruler tests and anyone else's- very funny
    4. leaving aside your references to authority totem figures who I don't care about and wouldn't waste any time reading any more than I already have - because they are irrelevant to me - Putsky is 9/10ths BS and worse- he cant shoot so I dont care what he has to say about anything cos I cant get over the fact that he just cant shoot
    5. I don't get your angst fella - calm down ..shouting isn't going to make your lenses any sharper
    6. Show me a shot that matters - which is made at a meter distance using a 35 lux and focus shift stuffed it up..give me an example prove your point..
    7. I get the same number of keepers per annum using any lens on any camera system - about 3 or 4 in a good year.
    and finally
    nice examples of the various apertures above - but obvious that that they aren't all made from the same exact position..they prove nothing to me except what I already know - focus shift is irrelevant to me.just more internet noise.

  3. #53
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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    I went through several 35 Lux Asph lenses with the M8 and they all focus shifted sufficiently to bother my photos. I used the 35 Lux alot in the 1-3 meter range and in the f2.0 to 5.6 aperture range. Mine all had in the photo noticeable shift. One of my lenses even went back to Germany where they calibrated it to almost be front focused at 1.4. It was better at the 2.0-5.6 range but still an issue for me.

    I loved the rendering of the Lux much more than the Cron, but just couldn't deal with the focus shift issues. I switched to a Cron that was calibrated to be close to front focus at 2.0, which worked at all apertures. The Cron was never my favorite rendering a little to "punchy".

    I'm ecstatic to be able to get my 35 Lux type rendering and the extra stop back without any of the close range sharpness or aperture based focus shift.

    My M9 is eagerly awaiting it's new lens.

    Good job Leica.

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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/...howtopic=42821

    the more megapixels the easier it is to see - the less than perfect stuff that has to be dealt with. The link above well illustrates the frustrations that everyone has to deal with in the digital world.

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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    ......
    7. I get the same number of keepers per annum using any lens on any camera system - about 3 or 4 in a good year.
    .....
    if this is the case -why would you spend so much money for Leica gear? this is even more funny than a ruler test IMO

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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    Perhaps you might consider the possibility that my definition of what a 'keeper' is - may be different to yours..??

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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Perhaps you might consider the possibility that my definition of what a 'keeper' is - may be different to yours..??
    Aren't you muddling up 'keepers' with 'successes'. I have lots of keepers every month, whether it's because it's pretty / interesting / fixes a memory, or just that it's too close to being a success to be able to throw it in the trash.

    What I really wish was that I had the strength of character to delete ALL the ones which are not even 'keepers'.

    But I'd be most happy to get 3 or 4 'successes' a year.

    all the best

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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    2-3 a year makes you a superstar mate - ask anyone.

    -

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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    2-3 a year makes you a superstar mate - ask anyone.

    -
    Exactly - one may as well aim high though
    I'm not exactly certain that on your definition I've ever taken a 'success'

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    It's interesting to consider the difference between keepers, successes and I suppose marque images. You could argue that even the likes of Ansel Adams, HCB, Elliot Erwitt, William Eggleston etc really only have a relatively small handful of truly memorable images from their careers, although built upon a body of successes and a pretty large pool of hidden away keepers (not to mention a veritable mass of so-so material).

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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    So if all of the successes come down to just 3 or 4 pictures per year, doesn't it seem silly to risk missing the shot(s) due to focus shift?

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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    Quote Originally Posted by John Black View Post
    So if all of the successes come down to just 3 or 4 pictures per year, doesn't it seem silly to risk missing the shot(s) due to focus shift?

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Perhaps you might consider the possibility that my definition of what a 'keeper' is - may be different to yours..??
    I was not talking about the definition what a keeper is but refering to you saying you get the same number of keepers whith each camer-lens-combination. And if this is the case I wondered why you would spend $2-3k for a Summilux lens if it doesnt make any difference at all for your images.

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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    I dont define 'success' by the number of photographs I decide to keep and print and hang. For me photography is an enjoyable thing to do, like playing the Piano taking a walk through nice gardens or a family sunday roast - doing it is what it is about.

    As for photographs that dont work because of focus shift with my 35 lux - I dont have any examples to show - because not one photograph I have ever made using thi slens on my M3/MP/M8 or M9 failed because of focus shift. I have plenty of reasons why 99.9% fail for other reasons.

    My reference to all cameras and lenses I use and number of keepers - was merely factual. My reference and link to LL on focus issues with MFD backs underlines the challenges every photographer has with optimising the potential in a digital world. I agree that ditgital sensors challenge mechanical operation more than film ever did.

    I wont be buying a new 35lux as I dont have a need for its solution to a problem that is irrelevant to me. if that offends anyone - well I guess I will have to live with that.

    Still waiting to see the examples of 1 meter 'great' shots that failed because of focus shift...waiting...waiting..waiting

    so far the only poster has been a person who tried to show there was no issue..


    waiting and waiting..-

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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    Peter,
    I cant speak for others but in my regard it doesnt offend me at all if a lens works good for others which doesnt work 100% for me.
    I do not even doubt that it works 100% for you - but you can believe me that focus shift in my sample in my photography influenced my images in a way that I sometimes had images where the eyes of a face were not 100% in focus even though I had focused on the eyes- and that bugged me.
    I wont post any proove here since I do know it happened (in my case with my lens and my way of photography). Everybody can decide on his own if this is an issue or not for himself.
    Happy shooting, Thomas

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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    It's interesting to consider the difference between keepers, successes and I suppose marque images. You could argue that even the likes of Ansel Adams, HCB, Elliot Erwitt, William Eggleston etc really only have a relatively small handful of truly memorable images from their careers, although built upon a body of successes and a pretty large pool of hidden away keepers (not to mention a veritable mass of so-so material).
    Not to beat a dead horse but all of the photographers you've listed have famous iconic images, and a large quantity of them, that are either blurry or seriously technically flawed. For all of them, content was / is the most important element of a photographic image. Just another point of view to even out the technical talk. I know you're not talking about technical issues with regard to this list, but I thought it was an interesting point. Plus I love all of their work!

    Personally, I owned and loved the 35mm Lux ASPH. I shed a tear when I had to sell it and the rest of my M gear for financial reasons. I never used it on digital but I consider it one of the most stunning lenses / pieces of gear I've ever owned. It may well of exhibited focus shift but because I predominantly shoot people hand held, well, who knows if any small focus errors were due to me or the lens. When I did nail focus though, man, it was incredibly sharp edge to edge, even wide open. I do believe though there is no doubt that focus shift does bother some people who shoot different subjects and / or have different technical requirements to me, especially on digital sensors. And to be honest, if I shelled out $6K plus the $4.5K for a M9 and single lens I'd expect it to focus where I want it. To that extent, I'm glad Leica now offer you lucky M users an updated, more reliable option for what I gather is roughly the same RRP.

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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    Not to beat a dead horse but all of the photographers you've listed have famous iconic images, and a large quantity of them, that are either blurry or seriously technically flawed. For all of them, content was / is the most important element of a photographic image. ..... Plus I love all of their work!

    \
    Exactly so...

  18. #68
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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    I always thought content wasnt important and images are all about sharpness and that gear was more important than the photographer

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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Aren't you muddling up 'keepers' with 'successes'. I have lots of keepers every month, whether it's because it's pretty / interesting / fixes a memory, or just that it's too close to being a success to be able to throw it in the trash.

    What I really wish was that I had the strength of character to delete ALL the ones which are not even 'keepers'.

    But I'd be most happy to get 3 or 4 'successes' a year.
    I think differently of photography:

    I see a movie and all the frames that show secondary or blurred images that in themselves are not interesting stills; but in the hole, make for a very good visual experience.

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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    If you really buy into the argument that equipment doesn t matter ..then why participate in a forum focused on the craft ? We admire art but realize that most photographers don t create much thats worth seeing by others.

    Its Ok to enjoy the process without creating anxiety about "keepers" . A photograph that works could be one that reminds me a great day or something that I can share with family and friends. The standards you set are yours .

    As I indicated in my original post ....I typically review a small body of work around 1-2000 images during an edit. My goal is to find the best (my definition ) 50-100 that I may return to in the future. I have and would show these to really well respected photographers . I would for example show these to guy or jack seeking feedback. What works for you ..why? What doesn t and why? If you have the time I will show you my work. This is a topic in itself but I learn from both successes and mistakes.

    So what ? this is a thread about a new Leica lens and yes the gear nut job in me wants to know ..whats better . In reviewing my captures with the M series ..the number one reason for skipping an image (what were you thinking ? nothing worth shooting? ) . But after that its always focus ..its hard to make a photograph of a person work if the eyes aren t sharp . So I look hard for sharpness in the critical areas and it does piss me off when I have an otherwise decent photograph ..but the photo doesn t work because of lack of sharpness. Its not the sharpness that makes the photo but the lack of it that might bother me.

    This was a thread about a new lens . One of the promoted aspects of the new version of a world class lens the Leica 35/1.4 was minimizing focus shift. I have used the current 35/1.4asph
    extensively ..I mean 000 s of captures . I enjoy it wide open where its optimized but I will use it at any aperture . Its just a pain to have to hedge a little if you use it at say f2.8 -f4 after that DOF is great enough .

    Without a doubt ...my eyes and technique are much greater factors than focus shift. But I do know that when I have a really tight calibrated lens and body ...I don t have to subconsciously adjust . Its not the most important element in creating high levels of IQ but its enough to matter to me.

    So I guess I must be a hack or a pixel peeper ....but thats not insulting is it?

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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    Quote Originally Posted by gero View Post
    I think differently of photography:

    I see a movie and all the frames that show secondary or blurred images that in themselves are not interesting stills; but in the hole, make for a very good visual experience.
    That's interesting. Personally I prefer to work through my images to produce a gallery of the keepers to show people. However, some of my family members prefer to view the body of shots straight from the camera like you mention for the context and whole movie strip of a trip. (I hate that btw ).

    With respect to the new lens, I'm waiting expectantly to see how it holds up in real use in people's hands before taking the jump myself. I've not been hurt by the focus shift issues with my 35 'lux although that's almost certainly because I had DAG set it up for optimal wide open shooting and I typically use it at f/1.4 close up or f/5.6 or f/8 for more landscape/scenic use. However, it's clear that it focus shifts slightly at 1-2m between those apertures. Is that worth the cost of a new lens? Time will tell ...

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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Personally I prefer to work through my images to produce a gallery of the keepers to show people. However, some of my family members prefer to view the body of shots straight from the camera like you mention for the context and whole movie strip of a trip. (I hate that btw).
    Graham, it is a good exercise to edit a group of photos with a different criteria on mind; I tried to see the pictures that reminded me of the sensation that the movie "Metropolis" gave me (of a family trip to N York) and the results where very surprising.

    I am curious of this lens.

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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    HI There
    Well, on a more serious note, I suspect that most of us agree about most things, for instance, we all agree:

    Peter doesn't find focus shift to be an issue for him

    the only substantive point where we disagree is that

    Peter doesn't think that focus shift should be an issue for anyone else

    Seems to me that others should be able to consider it an issue without having to submit samples to the forum to prove it to Peter - not least as Leica have acknowledged that it is an issue.

    I'm not in a position to judge, in that the whole issue stopped me from buying a 35 'lux about two years ago. Now I'm right up for this lens, but of course I won't be able to compare it to anything

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    Without a doubt ...my eyes and technique are much greater factors than focus shift. But I do know that when I have a really tight calibrated lens and body ...I don t have to subconsciously adjust . Its not the most important element in creating high levels of IQ but its enough to matter to me.
    Couldn't agree more - I loved my 75 'cron with the M8 . . .gradually stopped using it with the M9 as I got fed up with a very small amount of front focus, until I had it calibrated with the body, now it's back to being a firm favorite again

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    I hope that you guys all buy a new 35lux and use it to get sharp eyed portrait shots and are happy.

    Use them in good health.

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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    I will get it for sure.!!
    it's just a matter of time... (dont have the cash at the moment LOL..!!)
    Leica M9 | SE 18 | Lux 24 | Lux 50 | ZM 35 | Nikon D700 | 35/1.8 | 45 PC-E | 50/1.4 | 70-200 VR II | SB 800+600 |SF 58|

  27. #77
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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    I dont know yet- I am quite happy with the Summarit 35mm now (handling, IQ, weight and size and price) and have f1.4 in 50mm and 24mm lens.
    If I get the chance I would like to shoot some images with the new 35 and see what I get. No hurry at all. and it is a lot of money.

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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    Ahem, the new lens will likely have better flare resistance too. That might be another good reason to own it over the old one.

    My last new Leica lens did not so much have focus shift as did not #@**&$#**# well focus at all. Leica can charge a lot of money for incredible designs but lets hope they do not produce the same number of frankly shameful QC lapses with the new lens as has been the case over the last 12 months with well established ones. QC and reliable great performance used to be a reason to pay a premium but not any more it seems.

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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    I would add that while the greats have many out of focus shots that have become iconic, I cannot think of any that would have been worse off had they been in perfect focus I also suspect they had many frames that did not make the cut because being out of focus did not work in each case. most would appear due to camera shake and zone focusing more than focus shift, but certainly some shot with old sonnars may well be due to focus shift.

    Having a lens that focuses reliably where you want - assuming you do your bit - is never a bad place to start just as with any tool.

    PS if a person is going to criticise another person's ability to comment on technical aspects to lenses (i.e that of Puts), they had better be able to take decent shots themselves. Glass houses and stones comes to mind...

    I do a lot of shooting at 1-3m, mainly environmental portraits, and with enough causes of OOF shots I am not going to add focus shift to the repertoire of possible factors for failure. While I do select imperfectly sharp images for usage, I pick sharp ones more often.

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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    Quote Originally Posted by turtle View Post
    .....
    My last new Leica lens did not so much have focus shift as did not #@**&$#**# well focus at all. Leica can charge a lot of money for incredible designs but lets hope they do not produce the same number of frankly shameful QC lapses with the new lens as has been the case over the last 12 months with well established ones. QC and reliable great performance used to be a reason to pay a premium but not any more it seems.
    Well, if you have a lens which suffers from focus shift and is not calibrated correctly tha you have at least one f-stop where it would fine because the focus shift compensates the faulty calibration

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    Re: New 35 Lux announced




    100% crop showing focus point on vertical - just a one shot snap from one meter wide open @1.4 - no sharpen
    - maybe just a lucky shot..

    now spare me all the BS

    [email protected]

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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    Peter,

    The issue isn't whether you can necessarily focus accurately at f/1.4, it's more a case of shooting a set of shots at other apertures from the same place with the same focus indicated in the viewfinder. Depending upon the optimization of your 'lux you're likely to see the focus point move as you stop down until DoF takes over to keep it all in focus.

    My 'lux focuses perfectly at f/1.4 and is optimized to do so. At 1m and from the same position and same focus in the viewfinder, if I stop down to f/2.8 or f/4 I'll see the exact point of focus shift back slightly in the captured image. In my case by f/5.6 it's hardly noticeable any more and by f/8 it appears perfect again.

  33. #83
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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post



    100% crop showing focus point on vertical - just a one shot snap from one meter wide open @1.4 - no sharpen
    - maybe just a lucky shot..

    now spare me all the BS

    [email protected]
    Of course it can be focused wide open if its calibrated correctly. Focus shift occurs when you stop the lens down .

    The only valid issue regarding focus shift is will it matter in your typical shooting. If other factors like calibration,technique, ability to see are significant then focus shift gets lost in the details. If your typical subjects don t require the ability to get a clear sharp eye at 1M and most don t fine then its not important.

    You seem to feel its Ok to refer to others perspectives as BS ....pretty arrogant .

  34. #84
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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post



    100% crop showing focus point on vertical - just a one shot snap from one meter wide open @1.4 - no sharpen
    - maybe just a lucky shot..

    now spare me all the BS

    [email protected]
    Peter-sorry but I have to ask that question: Am I wrong or did you just make and post a focus test ?

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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    [IMG]
    100% crop showing focus point on vertical - just a one shot snap from one meter wide open @1.4 - no sharpen
    - maybe just a lucky shot..

    now spare me all the BS

    [email protected]
    Hi Peter
    at no point in this thread has anyone said that you can't focus the 35 'lux wide open at f1.4.
    Maybe you should read what people say before you tell them they're speaking BS?

    Just this guy you know

  36. #86
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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    Peter-sorry but I have to ask that question: Am I wrong or did you just make and post a focus test ?
    Yep, it's a focus test all right.
    And to my eye it shows clearly a slight front focus issue.
    But hey what do I know ...

    Let's call it a day, okay ?
    Bart ...

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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    Quote Originally Posted by Knorp View Post
    Yep, it's a focus test all right.
    And to my eye it shows clearly a slight front focus issue.

    But hey what do I know ...

    Let's call it a day, okay ?

    HI Bart
    I'm sure you're right

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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    Ok BS - was robably out of line - but then again no offence meant on a pesonal level..

    for me the focus shift is a NON issue - I guess FOR OTHERS it is.

    Nothing is going to change a person's beliefs and experiences or worries and concerns ..

    I do have to say I laugh at the predantic nature of some here - but then again maybe I dont take this stuff as seiosuly as some. Ican't see front focus - b3ecause whilst I 'bel;ieve' I was focussing as accurately as i could from a metre away on a little horisontal line - I woudl never expect to be able to get spot on focus in such a tiny object so ( realtively) far away -

    so the comment that it is front focussing - ( relevnt @ 100% crop...) may appeal to certain smug smugs..but to me it is irrelevant and invisible.

    for my purposes there is more than enough accuracy and room for user error to make the issue unobservable and insignificant is guess what I am saying.

    Cheers!

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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Ok BS - was robably out of line - but then again no offence meant on a pesonal level..

    for me the focus shift is a NON issue - I guess FOR OTHERS it is.
    Surely that's something we can all accept

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post

    I do have to say I laugh at the predantic nature of some here - but then again maybe I dont take this stuff as seiosuly as some. Ican't see front focus - b3ecause whilst I 'bel;ieve' I was focussing as accurately as i could from a metre away on a little horisontal line - I woudl never expect to be able to get spot on focus in such a tiny object so ( realtively) far away -

    so the comment that it is front focussing - ( relevnt @ 100% crop...) may appeal to certain smug smugs..but to me it is irrelevant and invisible.
    I thought Bart had is tongue (at least partly) in his cheek - which was why it appealed to this smugmug

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    for my purposes there is more than enough accuracy and room for user error to make the issue unobservable and insignificant is guess what I am saying.

    Cheers!
    It's those little phrases like 'for me' and 'for my purposes' which should allow peace to break out all around

    Have a nice day!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    Jeez! It's just a lens! Buy it or don't buy it.
    Happy shooting.

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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    Quote Originally Posted by turtle View Post
    I would add that while the greats have many out of focus shots that have become iconic, I cannot think of any that would have been worse off had they been in perfect focus
    I don't know, off the top of my head I can think of stuff by Robert Frank that might lose something were they in "perfect focus". That said, I agree with the consensus in this thread that there is nothing BS about acknowledging the existence of focus shift as a technical issue that can come into play (whether you view photography rather loftily as an art form or simply something to do whilst mooching around).

    One of the curious things I've noticed on these kind of internet forums is that those who are quite clearly amongst the biggest gearheads around are often the ones who shout loudest about how "the equipment doesn't matter" and how it's all "BS". I also think there's something ironic and amusing when someone demands to see "great pictures" that prove a technical point and then offers up a boring shot of some gear fondler lenses to make the counter argument. Incidentally, is that a bowl of crisps behind the keyboard?

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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    Quote Originally Posted by wattsy View Post
    Incidentally, is that a bowl of crisps behind the keyboard?
    Can't tell . . . . . . . . . . . they're out of focus

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  43. #93
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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    Quote Originally Posted by wattsy View Post
    ....One of the curious things I've noticed on these kind of internet forums is that those who are quite clearly amongst the biggest gearheads around are often the ones who shout loudest about how "the equipment doesn't matter" and how it's all "BS"...
    Curious as well to show f/1.4 images to demonstrate focus shift or lack thereof. Try the same at f/2.8 or f/4 folks.

  44. #94
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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    There are several issues here. Leica means "perfection" to some people, so anything less feels like a betrayal. Many people don't understand the difference between focus shift, back focus, camera adjustment, lens adjustment, and their technique. And our ability to detect a phenomenon with a digital camera may exceed our ability to control it in practical photography.

    All fast lenses have focus shift as you stop down. Physics is physics. The question is how much, and does it matter? The 45-degree ruler test may seem ridiculous to some, but it can answer that question.

    For years, with film, I thought that my 35mm Summicron IV was quite soft at f/2. After I got my M8, the ruler test showed me that it really isn't. It's just that it front focuses significantly at f/2. Now I know that if I want to use it wide open, I need to focus a little behind what I want sharp--on the subjects ears instead of their eyes. That's useful knowledge. I could have the 'Cron adjusted so it was perfect at f/2. But then f/2.8 - f/8 would be slightly back focused.

    As for the 35 Summilux ASPH, see the attached photo. The rangefinder was focused on the 28 inch mark. See how the zone of focus shifts backwards from f/1.4 to f/4? Does it matter? Sometimes it does. I can either compensate slightly (say, by focusing on the nose instead of the eyes in a people shot), or avoid the stops from f/2.8-4. Or I can use another lens for f/2.8-4.

    Or I can buy the new 35 Lux Asph for $5,000, and know that the floating elements have reduced the problem to the point where it won't matter much for all practical purposes, even if Erwin can show that it's still there to some extent.

    Knowing your lenses is a good thing. Knowledge is power. Especially when you're using a sensor with no anti-alias filter, when "perfection" was previously defined using film.

  45. #95
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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    I think Peter nailed it. I couldn't say it better myself.

  46. #96
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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Klein View Post
    ...Or I can use another lens for f/2.8-4...
    The latest pre-asph Lux 35/1.4 for instance but not the CV 35/1.4 SC.

  47. #97
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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    ..its hard to make a photograph of a person work if the eyes aren t sharp . So I look hard for sharpness in the critical areas and it does piss me off when I have an otherwise decent photograph ..but the photo doesn t work because of lack of sharpness. Its not the sharpness that makes the photo but the lack of it that might bother me.

    Without a doubt ...my eyes and technique are much greater factors than focus shift. But I do know that when I have a really tight calibrated lens and body ...I don t have to subconsciously adjust . Its not the most important element in creating high levels of IQ but its enough to matter to me.
    Fully agree. I love to shoot portraits of my family, and I love the look of the f1 Nocti, the 75 lux, the 50 lux, and the 75 cron wide open. My M8 back focused so I had a lot of nice shots with sharp ears--until I send the camera to Solms for adjusting. After that it worked fine and I know that when I missed one, it was my fault.

    When I got the M9 in December, all of the lenses front focussed, and I now have sharp noses. Today I'll ship the whole stuff to Solms. Of course, one can try to compensate but why paying so much cash for a prime product, on of the main features of which should be the fast and precise focusing, and then do guess focusing.

    Of course, there are also the shots where you try to capture a certain situation etc., and where the precise focus does not matter that much. But sometimes, in particular when you shoot wide open, the visual effect of an image depends on you nailing the focus. How would the attached example look if the focus was not on the eye?

    Attachment 31378

    Not sure how someone defines a photo as a "success?" Money? Publication? Pleasure? What I know is that for me the shots matter, that friends I show them to like them, and that some of them are not any worse than photos I saw published.

    Just my 2c.

  48. #98
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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    I will get the new 35mm ASPH for sure, though I think the current ASPH is a very competent lens.

  49. #99
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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    Quote Originally Posted by GMB View Post
    Fully agree. I love to shoot portraits of my family, and I love the look of the f1 Nocti, the 75 lux, the 50 lux, and the 75 cron wide open. My M8 back focused so I had a lot of nice shots with sharp ears--until I send the camera to Solms for adjusting. After that it worked fine and I know that when I missed one, it was my fault.

    When I got the M9 in December, all of the lenses front focussed, and I now have sharp noses. Today I'll ship the whole stuff to Solms. Of course, one can try to compensate but why paying so much cash for a prime product, on of the main features of which should be the fast and precise focusing, and then do guess focusing.

    Of course, there are also the shots where you try to capture a certain situation etc., and where the precise focus does not matter that much. But sometimes, in particular when you shoot wide open, the visual effect of an image depends on you nailing the focus. How would the attached example look if the focus was not on the eye?

    Attachment 31378

    Not sure how someone defines a photo as a "success?" Money? Publication? Pleasure? What I know is that for me the shots matter, that friends I show them to like them, and that some of them are not any worse than photos I saw published.

    Just my 2c.
    Semana Santa? Great example as the sharpness in the eye is highlighted by the dark hood. Its a much tougher standard than a normal shot at that distance.

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    Re: New 35 Lux announced

    well another ruler test shows that @ 1.4 you have about 2.5 inches of sharpness and @ f4 you have 4 inches of it..

    WOW
    Last edited by PeterA; 29th May 2010 at 18:04.

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