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M9.2 When and What will be new?
- Thread starter esy0345
- Start date
Seascape
New member
Well hopefully they don't do a M9.2, the last .2 cameras really weren't worth the model change (not just the M8.2 but also the R6.2) IMO.
Now a M10, with a next generation sensor, and focus confirmation would be enough to get my attention, until then my M8 will do just fine :thumbup:
Now a M10, with a next generation sensor, and focus confirmation would be enough to get my attention, until then my M8 will do just fine :thumbup:
Agreed. On an M10, would like to see a smaller body near X1 size with rangefinder window on top with M lenses and large buffer size. The worst thing is to have to wait so long while the M8 (or M9 from reviews) processes the images. Using the X1 is such a pleasure with its high ISO. The images are great. Leica needs to keep up and upgrade sooner than later once the M9 orders are caught up or risk going back into the red.
With Leica working as much as they are to keep up with the demand for the M9, I don't imagine that an M9.2 will be on the horizon very soon. It was roughly two years after the M8 was released that the M8.2 was announced.
From all I've read (I'm not an owner), fixes to the M9's red fringing issues would no doubt be appreciated. However, and correct me if I'm mistaken here, the history of the ".2" cameras showed Leica either playing catch up to features from other manufacturers, or addressing perceived faults of the base model release. Given the success of the launch, I don't think there's a pressing need for one.
-J.
From all I've read (I'm not an owner), fixes to the M9's red fringing issues would no doubt be appreciated. However, and correct me if I'm mistaken here, the history of the ".2" cameras showed Leica either playing catch up to features from other manufacturers, or addressing perceived faults of the base model release. Given the success of the launch, I don't think there's a pressing need for one.
-J.
jonoslack
Active member
If there is an M9.2 then I think it's really unlikely that it'll have any of these changes - it would need a new sensor design to deal completely with the red edges, and new electronics and firmware to deal with the LCD and the processor and a new body for a larger rangefinder window - that sounds like an entirely new camera to me. I guess there will be an M10 which might have some (or all) of these features, who knows?
However, it's not going to be soon - if Leica are finding it tough to deal with orders for the M9 (for which there is no competition), why on earth would they release a new camera?
Of course, there might be an M9.2, but I can't see anything obvious that would need fixing - I'd bet more on cosmetic stuff (sapphire LCD, different finish etc.).
As for the red fringing (red edges). I had to think about what you were saying for a minute. I can honestly say that I haven't given it a thought for the last three months (5,000-10,000 shots) - I know it's there, I know it's an issue, but I simply haven't seen it.
A faster processor would also be nice - but then, I've only once filled the buffer on my camera, and that was fooling about. There are better cameras to use like a machine gun!
Of course, it's your prerogative to 'hold off' (I'd guess you're going to have to wait a long time). But if you like your M8, then you'll love an M9, red edges and slow processor notwithstanding.
all the best
The red edge issue was improved with the last firmware update. Problem is, folks tend to use a lot of non-Leica glass, so it's a moving target. Having had a lot of experience with large format cameras and a digital backs, I've grown quite used to dealing with it. Color cast is just a fact of life with wide angle lenses in that arena. It's really a matter of physics, light having to be bent to a great degree to cover the full frame sensor. SLR's don't have this issue because the mirror box moves the lens farther away from the sensor, so the angles the light needs to be bent is less.
If one were to use Leica glass that had six bit coding, then a general correction can be applied to that lens automatically because the camera knows the individual charastic of that lens. For non Leica glass, one would have to choose the closest Leica equivalent, and hope for the best. Problem is, even with the Leica glass, it changes with aperture and focus distance, as these elements change how the light is bent to reach the sensor. So like I said, it's a moving target.
The way we deal with this on LF cameras is to shoot a white, semi opaque calibration card for each shot, or series of shots (similar to an expo disk) , then apply those corrections in post. It works perfectly (more or less...). So, IMHO, Leica should offer this fix in software and allow one to do something similar for color critical work. For non critical work, the generic in camera fixes are fine.
So, seeing how it is lens specific, I seriously doubt this is something that will be added to an M10, unless it was software based.
If one were to use Leica glass that had six bit coding, then a general correction can be applied to that lens automatically because the camera knows the individual charastic of that lens. For non Leica glass, one would have to choose the closest Leica equivalent, and hope for the best. Problem is, even with the Leica glass, it changes with aperture and focus distance, as these elements change how the light is bent to reach the sensor. So like I said, it's a moving target.
The way we deal with this on LF cameras is to shoot a white, semi opaque calibration card for each shot, or series of shots (similar to an expo disk) , then apply those corrections in post. It works perfectly (more or less...). So, IMHO, Leica should offer this fix in software and allow one to do something similar for color critical work. For non critical work, the generic in camera fixes are fine.
So, seeing how it is lens specific, I seriously doubt this is something that will be added to an M10, unless it was software based.
jonoslack
Active member
Thanks for that James . . . I've really ended up using all Leica glass - I realise it's an issue with non leica glass - Cornerfix is an excellent solution under those circumstances - and it's free!
I have frequently filled the buffer not machine gunning, but just taking the same shot at each aperture click on the Noctilux to get the best image. After 8 shots, it's wait,wait,wait,...... as camera locks up and subject has changed by then - especially on a hot day at the beach.
jonoslack
Active member
Okay - different shooting techniques - I guess that a larger buffer is one thing that could, theoretically, go into a 9.2 - but like others, I really can't see a good commercial reason for Leica to do it on an interim camera.
You can wait for the improvements you ask for, but I think it may be a long wait, and I'm pretty sure they'll be in a completely new camera.
jaapv
Subscriber Member
A question of getting rather blue in the face whilst holding your breath I would say, the M9 is pretty close to the ideal camera as it is, making it hard for Leica to design something people will want to upgrade to. Red Edge - yes, it was there on the first firmware, but now it is minimal. Buffer, yes, but only owners use it in a way that makes it a problem. Sensor? It is better than anything I can do photographically anyway, so a new one would be into diminishing returns....
In fact, the M9, for the first time in my digital life, gives me the feeling that I am off the upgrade bandwagon.
In fact, the M9, for the first time in my digital life, gives me the feeling that I am off the upgrade bandwagon.
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J
Jeff Day
Guest
I like my M9 a lot just the way it is, and doubt we'll see an M9.x anytime soon, but in case anyone from Leica is reading here is my wish list for the next gen MX:
- smaller, lighter, weather-sealed body
- bigger rangefinder window with focus confirmation (I'm getting old and it's increasingly hard for me to see)
- improved sensor performance
- faster processor
- larger buffer
- live view 'iPhone' like screen
- a built in 'Thumbs Up'
For me that would be quite a treat!
Best,
Jeff
- smaller, lighter, weather-sealed body
- bigger rangefinder window with focus confirmation (I'm getting old and it's increasingly hard for me to see)
- improved sensor performance
- faster processor
- larger buffer
- live view 'iPhone' like screen
- a built in 'Thumbs Up'
For me that would be quite a treat!
Best,
Jeff
Don Hutton
Member
Here's an idea - use the lens, learn what it does at each aperture and then you won't need to machine gun it - just choose the aperture that suits your vision, hit the trigger and off you go... I mean, what did you do in the land of Ms and film? It sounds like a Red cam may satisfy you demands.
I have an M9 (and an MP, M7 and M8) and honestly, the only real improvement that I can think of would be the price; then again, it's a Leica, and I don't understand their pricing at all, but I sure do like the tools. Of course the results are not always as good as I'd like... but I can usually think of 1000s of things that need improving before the tools.
Thanks for your opinion, Don. But like this afternoon when it is hot and the bugs are biting, sometimes you want this -View attachment 32710- and sometimes you want this -
View attachment 32711 or this View attachment 32713 and View attachment 32712 (I did not PP them yet.)View attachment 32717
I know my lenses very well, but the nice thing about digital is IT'S FREE to shoot as much as I want. My 15 year old daughter and I shoot for her Facebook profile picture, come home and process the images in Aperture, and post them. It is a wholesome and great activity to share together, she learns about photography, and we have fun. Rather than chimp, I take all the images I might need, and worry about them later, rather than worrying about getting it perfect then. Many times a slight subtle aperture change is the difference between a good and a great photo. To each his own, but "machine gunning" is not a bad thing. I like a camera that can handle whatever is needed at the time, and the X1 far outperforms the M series in something simple as this for 1/3 of the price of an M9, so IMHO expecting performance in a high end camera at that price is not an unreasonable thing. Some of the comments are made to bring up controversy to make the thread more interesting, but I shoot for fun and am no more than a hobbyist. I love my Leica products.
View attachment 32711 or this View attachment 32713 and View attachment 32712 (I did not PP them yet.)View attachment 32717
I know my lenses very well, but the nice thing about digital is IT'S FREE to shoot as much as I want. My 15 year old daughter and I shoot for her Facebook profile picture, come home and process the images in Aperture, and post them. It is a wholesome and great activity to share together, she learns about photography, and we have fun. Rather than chimp, I take all the images I might need, and worry about them later, rather than worrying about getting it perfect then. Many times a slight subtle aperture change is the difference between a good and a great photo. To each his own, but "machine gunning" is not a bad thing. I like a camera that can handle whatever is needed at the time, and the X1 far outperforms the M series in something simple as this for 1/3 of the price of an M9, so IMHO expecting performance in a high end camera at that price is not an unreasonable thing. Some of the comments are made to bring up controversy to make the thread more interesting, but I shoot for fun and am no more than a hobbyist. I love my Leica products.
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GrahamWelland
Subscriber & Workshop Member
I'd certainly happily see a sapphire LCD cover and a faster / better image preview. My backup M8 still beats the M9 in that regard. Oh, and real chrome please
Jono, I haven't messed with conerfix too much. Maybe I should? For me, I think the best solution would be if Capture One opened up the Lens cast calibration feature to other cameras other than the Phase One backs. The feature is there, just grayed out, and it seems like it would be an easy thing just to allow the user to turn it on. It allows for the color cast correction and falloff control separately (which is great because sometimes I like the natural vignette I get from the camera, but want the color cast gone, etc) I also like that this is applied to the RAW file, so, by the time I process out to a TIFF, the colors are clean. Why our Dutch brethren decided the only folks who'd want to be able to do that were the ones using P-One backs is beyond me - that feature alone seems like it would sell more than a few copies of C1 to Leica users. Go figure...
2
2x2
Guest
What is it with this affinity for sapphire LCD screens???
I just don't get it.
I just don't get it.
jonoslack
Active member
Well, I think the one thing we can all agree with is that your 15 year old daughter is really pretty!
jonoslack
Active member
Hi James
i think cornerfix is probably the right answer, but I don't use it myself, as I don't seem to have an issue with any of my lenses. But Sandy has put a lot of work in, and as far as I can see it's the final solution. I don't use C1 anymore either - just prefer Aperture I guess - each to his own.