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Thread: Leica X1 has new competition

  1. #51
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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Well, I like it, even though it's a fixed lens. I think Panasonic just lost a sale. I was waiting for the GH2 or GF2, but I think I'll just wait for this now. Every thing about it is about perfect, even the grip.

    Why have Oly and Pany been asleep so long? This is what most people have wanted for years, the aperture and shutter dials made of metal and an egg timer delayed shutter release. All those flimsy plastic dials without a positive click, just pale in comparison. Fuji deserves my money, for this one. I just hope they nailed the AF speed.

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition


    Thanks for posting. This is arguably the best introductory presentation I have ever seen (the worst is the blendtech video of Olympus EP1).

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    A Fujinon aspherical lens @ f/2? This would be interesting, and I'm expecting all round stellar performance.

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Maybe the X1 WILL have competition with the X100 but lets maybe first wait and see when it will be really available and how it woks.

    The question why Leica has not used a faster lens has been answered by Leica before: because it would have become to big in their opinion. So either the Fuji lens will be bigger or have some other compromises (optical?) or Fuji has managed to overcome the problems and are capable of building a lens smaller/faster at same size.

    By the way: Leica promoted the X1 to have a fast AF... so lets see how the Fuji will work.
    I have no doubts that they have some improvements and they better should because the camera comes on the marked one year later than the x1 which is quite some time in todays world.

    Anyways - competition is good but I dont fin it fair to compare cameras, one which is existant based on the experienced downsides and the other one based on the marketed positive sides.

    IMO we should compare either paper with paper (marketing brochures) or camera with camera.

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    A gorgeous camera with fantastic feature. I have no doubt on the optical performance of Fujinon lenses, if any one recalls that Fuji makes many of the large format Zeiss lenses.
    I really hope this camera has a sibling which can change lenses....and something that is not too remote.

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    "there is a reason people use Leica and Zeiss lenses instead"

    No doubt there are many reasons. But there is some disagreement as to what they are.

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Their engraved logo in the back is reminiscent of Zeiss Ikon or Zeiss Jenna...nice touch.

    But the video (courtesy of a link posted by ceh) had some curious legalese..."..customized to match the characteristics of the 23mm f2 lens, the APS-C sized CMOS sensor boasts a 12.3 million pixel resolution. This works in tandem with a newly developed EXR processor. The synergy of the two produces the best image quality in the HISTORY OF FINEPIX cameras..."

    Uh...I'm sorry but that's not saying much.

    Or else there would have been a dedicated FUJI group in this Forum by now. And while I read some posts about Fuji lenses being used they have been few and far between among all the other optics that posters have ooohed and ahhhhed over.

    I'm still intrigued. But I'm very much wary of potential hype. Again Fuji's track record has not been one of wows. But that's not to say they couldn't.
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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    And while I read some posts about Fuji lenses being used they have been few and far between among all the other optics that posters have ooohed and ahhhhed over.


    How many Noctilux 50/0.95 users are there and how many pictures taken with that lens have been ooohed and ahhhed over by non Noctilux or non Leica owners?

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    I think we will have to wait and see on the optics and IQ, sceptecism is healthy, especially with such an unknown but I think we will be pleased, it's a proven sensor at least and Fuji knows how to do colour and DR in the processing pipeline, very well indeed. They also know how to build a camera and we know that they know how to make lenses (the Hasselblad ones).

    Whether it will all come together we will have to see.
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    Senior Member Don Hutton's Avatar
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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark K View Post
    ...if any one recalls that Fuji makes many of the large format Zeiss lenses.
    I thought Zeiss made Zeiss LF lenses and Fuji made Fuji LF lenses?

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post


    How many Noctilux 50/0.95 users are there and how many pictures taken with that lens have been ooohed and ahhhed over by non Noctilux or non Leica owners?

    Vivek, true dat.
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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Cnet has some good pics. I like it!

    Link.

  13. #63
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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Go FUJI!! I am very much interested in this camera........

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Ooh, we're getting closer towards my dream camera (a smallish FF with 35/1.4 or f/2 lens)! If this one performs well - both in handling and image quality - I'll probably get one when the prices have gone down a bit. Maybe next fall? Love that it has an optical VF and 10cm MFD, and 35mm is my favorite focal length. That it looks good doesn't hurt.

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Quote Originally Posted by peterb View Post
    The synergy of the two produces the best image quality in the HISTORY OF FINEPIX cameras..."

    Uh...I'm sorry but that's not saying much.
    But don't forget that the name "Finepix" covers not just point & shoots but also Fuji's S1, S3 and S5 which were based on Nikon DSLRs. I believe the S3 and S5 were highly regarded by some photographers, and some would like Fuji to continue making Nikon-based DSLRs. Some wedding & portrait photographers chose the Fuji versions over their Nikon siblings because of image quality. So it seems that this little X100 is promising better image quality than even some very good Fuji Finepix predecessors.

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Quote Originally Posted by Zlatko Batistich View Post
    But don't forget that the name "Finepix" covers not just point & shoots but also Fuji's S1, S3 and S5 which were based on Nikon DSLRs. I believe the S3 and S5 were highly regarded by some photographers, and some would like Fuji to continue making Nikon-based DSLRs. Some wedding & portrait photographers chose the Fuji versions over their Nikon siblings because of image quality. So it seems that this little X100 is promising better image quality than even some very good Fuji Finepix predecessors.
    While I was aware that their 'flagships' were Nikon-friendly they seemed to be rarely supported. They made a body for sure. And I don't know of any lenses of note. The last major camera they did seemed to be years ago and I'm not sure it was received all that well (although it's possible that people in their demographics probably thought, "well if it's like a Nikon why not get a Nikon?") Judging by their offerings it seemed like they pulled back from anything really substantial like a DSLR. Most of the time they seemed to be cranking out moderately priced 'bridge' cameras. As a result I just never got the sense that they were not a major player in digital beyond the P/S cameras. If anything they're the ones who make processing equipment and special applications.

    Again, my whole impression is based on a sense of the discussions (or lack) on various forums on the net. They seem to be in the 'other' category on this forum. And not much presence at that.
    Life is an infinite series of moments called..."now".
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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    The S5 is a remarkable camera .... I still use it, not frequently though.

    Musn't forget that fuji also did quite a few Hassleblad lenses, which were optically top lenses in my perception anyway

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    what is interesting about this camera for me is that it has a lot of the features that many wanted in the M8, features which Leica omitted- for example, side loading card slot, usb port, instead of the removable baseplate--an evf overlay instead of the trd. leica framelines, more dedicated buttons on the back vs. leica's somewhat minimal approach--and I think you look at the whole package and I can see why leica left off some of that stuff- it is starting to trend the camera away from object to "gadget".

    surprising how little you have to add before it gets that way in comparison to the classic camera design statements of the last century.

    Fuji will sell a boat load of these tho-it seems to be very well thought out.

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Quote Originally Posted by Coms37 View Post
    The S5 is a remarkable camera .... I still use it, not frequently though.

    Musn't forget that fuji also did quite a few Hassleblad lenses, which were optically top lenses in my perception anyway
    I saw a few mentions of that. Didn't realize Fuji was making lenses for Hassy. That's good to know. Thanks (and also thanks to other posters who'd also mentioned that).
    Life is an infinite series of moments called..."now".
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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Cool, I for sure want one. What would make it really cool is if there is no AA filter in it..
    I can dream I guess. So much for buying a X1, which I almost did...
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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Fascinating camera. Will certainly push the envelope for large sensor compacts. To me, the biggest issue will be quick and quiet AF, good ISO, and hopefully no anti-aliasing filter to get in the way of sharpness. If it can accomplish strong IQ in the current incarnation, I can't see how this wouldn't be a winner. The X1 is lovely in the IQ department, but this camera should force others (Leica, Zeiss, ? Canon, ?Nikon, Sony) to step up their game and advance the technology to then benefit all of us....gosh, I'd love a compact with a summilux
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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Quote Originally Posted by lambert View Post
    The X100 looks like an amazing camera and seems to offer an array of bells and whistles but the one box it doesn't tick is [] compact camera.

    The key reason I still plan to buy an X1 is that it still the best quality compact in town.
    Last time I checked the X1 was as big as a brick compared to other compacts. Small compared to a pro dslr or a M9, but not Small. I would not put it In the compact category.

  23. #73
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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Size comparison:

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Quote Originally Posted by robertwright View Post
    what is interesting about this camera for me is that it has a lot of the features that many wanted in the M8, features which Leica omitted- for example, side loading card slot, usb port, instead of the removable baseplate--an evf overlay instead of the trd. leica framelines, more dedicated buttons on the back vs. leica's somewhat minimal approach--
    But it lacks one very important feature interchangeable lenses.

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    This camera is very interesting to me...I'm not in the market for anything like this but am still intrigued by Fuji's announcement

    It's always been my contention that Fuji should focus on competing with Leica. My understanding is that Leica Germany has a 3-tiered approach towards cameras aimed at their customer base. They chose this approach in order to weather trends in the market that might shift from one era to another. They basically broke it down into 3 rough categories...enthusiasts, pro-sumers, and professionals.

    The X1 fits in with the enthusiast amateur market
    The M9 fits in with the prosumer type of market
    THe s2 fits in with the professional market.

    Just because a camera is designed for a certain market doesn't mean that it can't be adopted by another market. In other words, there will be plenty of professionals shooting with M9s and lots of hobbyists shooting with S2s. But the business strategy is to aim the camera systems at those 3 basic categories of consumers.

    The reason that I'm bringing this up is because if Fuji is styling themselves in the manner of Leica then we might expect them to share a similar strategy towards the consumer. This new X100 camera fits solidly into Leica Germany's enthusiast/amateur category. I wonder if Fuji has any other camera offerings up their sleeve that might fit better in with the prosumer and professional categories? Bottom line: It might not be too crazy to expect something like a high quality 35mm offering (ala R10, M9) and/or some kind of medium format offering (ala S2) associated with Fuji in the not-too-distant future...
    Last edited by Mike M; 20th September 2010 at 14:19. Reason: missing word

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    Senior Member Peter Klein's Avatar
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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    If the focusing is indeed done by sensor movement, how much ya wanna bet that an X200 with an interchangable lens mount will be introduced at next year's Photokina? Or maybe one with a 50mm equivalent for people like me who like "fifties?" Once they've sold all the X100s that they can...

    And does anyone besides me think that the camera evokes not just the Hexar RF, but also the M3? It's the raised thingie around the viewfinder, and the lever on the left.

    Anyway, whoever designed the camera clearly had photographers in mind, not just gadget freaks and digiterati. The major controls are in the right places. That's good. Now let's see what the IQ and speed is.

    --Peter

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Fuji lenses are legendary. Lets not forget their line of rangefinders, the current MF670, the 690 and 645 lines (some of the sharpest glass ever made) and the 680 medium/large format hybrid. Not to mention lenses for cinema and TV. And when I was doing darkroom I used their pro enlarging lenses which easily bested any of the German APO's for about a 1/10th the price (when one could find them).

    Will be interesting. All hinges on AF speed imo and keeping the interface/menus simple.

  28. #78
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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    >with an interchangable lens mount will be introduced at next year's Photokina?

    For sure not, Photokina is only every other year.
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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Quote Originally Posted by tom in mpls View Post
    Cnet has some good pics. I like it!

    Link.
    Very nice indeed. Has anyone else noticed how clean the viewfinder interface looks - gorgeous! The typography, both on the LCD and viewfinder, is perfect.

    http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/201...12_540x383.jpg

    http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/201...-9_540x341.jpg

    For some reason that alone gives me a measure of confidence in this product...

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Also excited about the LCD...800x600 @ 2.8 diagonal, compare to iPhone 4's amazing Retina Display at 960x640 @ 3.5 diagonal. Whoa!

    Who knows if it will really be as nice but the numbers look promising.

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Note that it support MF, AF-C and AF-S.

    See the hands on photos below from Photogrophyblog where details not visible in other shots are visible. Notice all of the manual controls, focus ring on lens, aperture control on lens, shutter speed on dial plus A, exposure comp on own dial, WB on 4 way, control lever on front to switch VF mode, and the following is a guess but it appears that the black thumb knob on the upper right back may be used for ISO. Ergonomically that beats just about every other camera out there and shows they really did listen.

    If it uses a leaf shutter (probably) and one can actually set the aperture and not have the camera change it like it does on the X1 and the GXR-A12, then a magnified view MF should work well using the VF, especially if focus confirmation is shown in the VF. It appears to have AF illuminator and flash.

    For more images go to http://www.photographyblog.com/news/...nds-on_photos/
    V/r John

  32. #82
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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Quote Originally Posted by barjohn View Post
    Note that it support MF, AF-C and AF-S.

    See the hands on photos below from Photogrophyblog where details not visible in other shots are visible. Notice all of the manual controls, focus ring on lens, aperture control on lens, shutter speed on dial plus A, exposure comp on own dial, WB on 4 way, control lever on front to switch VF mode, and the following is a guess but it appears that the black thumb knob on the upper right back may be used for ISO. Ergonomically that beats just about every other camera out there and shows they really did listen.

    If it uses a leaf shutter (probably) and one can actually set the aperture and not have the camera change it like it does on the X1 and the GXR-A12, then a magnified view MF should work well using the VF, especially if focus confirmation is shown in the VF. It appears to have AF illuminator and flash.

    For more images go to http://www.photographyblog.com/news/...nds-on_photos/
    Wow! Can't fault the ergonomics, especially if there really are working manual lens controls. Why, oh, why can't Leica come up with this type of package?

    LouisB

  33. #83
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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    What a gorgeous thing.
    Not sure that it's really designed as competition for the X1 though - it seems to be nearer to the size of an M8/M9 looking at the dimensions. So I'd have thought it was more directed at a potential M buyer who doesn't need interchangeable (or very fast) lenses.

    If it really performs in low light and the AF is fast it'll be very tempting though!

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    Thumbs up Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    I've been weighing up getting another M9/35 cron combo for travel. However, depending on image quality (to be seen) I could seriously consider picking up one of these instead, in the short term at least.

    Again, so long as IQ is good enough, I'd buy one of these instead of an X1 in an instant. I tried the X1 a few times and ultimately it left me cold. This looks to be very well thought out and the viewfinder looks like the kind of thing I'd expect in a digital M to be honest. It wouldn't matter to me if the price were even the same as the X1 - the Fujinon glass has the potential to be every bit as good as the Leica glass in the X1. (remember also that not just the Fuji MF cameras and Hasselblad lenses used Fujinon glass but also the Xpan was a Fuji camera and glass too).

    Fuji - please please don't let us down with the image quality. It would such a shame and I can see that I'm not the only one prepared to take a punt with this camera if it lives up to expectations.

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    looks like this is what the digilux 2 tried to be: manual controls and traditional layout, but more compact and a better viewfinder, no zoom. now if the lens could be as nice

  36. #86
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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Jono, this is no where close to an M9 in size. It is only 3mm or about 1/8" longer than an X1, it is 5 mm lower in height than an M9 (0.2") and almost 1/2" shorter than an M9. Looking at the photos, especially the photos of it in hand suggests that the thickness given must include the lens & eyepiece protrusion as it just doesn't appear to be 2" thick in the body. At 127 x 75 x 54 it is very close to the CL at 121 x 76 x32. The difference in height between the X1 and the X100 is mostly due to the addition of the built in viewfinder. At $1,000 and March delivery they will fly off the shelves unless Canon or Nikon get in the game with something better.
    V/r John

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Canonikon must be in the game already, if they are going to deliver in that time frame.

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    ... looks like it might be less expensive than I expected. from another mailing list:

    On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 8:38 AM, Miserere wrote ...
    Fuji just announce the price: US$1,000.
    I'll say that again: One Thousand US Dollars.
    Expected to start shipping in March 2011.

    http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/21/f...0-we-go-hands/

    I'm excited, and for the first time ever a camera has made me wet my pants.
    Responsiveness becomes the bottom line.

  39. #89
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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    ... looks like it might be less expensive than I expected. from another mailing list:

    ... $1000 ...

    Responsiveness becomes the bottom line.
    Boy, I hope that number is right. If IQ and handling is there, this thing will win huge.

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    I also read that the Fuji rep is claiming the dynamic range will be greater than the Finepix S5. I believe forum member Uwe reviewed that camera and at the time found it to best the dynamic range of Canon and Nikon DSLRs.

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Quote Originally Posted by Show Performance View Post
    I also read that the Fuji rep is claiming the dynamic range will be greater than the Finepix S5. I believe forum member Uwe reviewed that camera and at the time found it to best the dynamic range of Canon and Nikon DSLRs.

    I'm not familiar with Uwe, but I can fully back up his claim with my own experience.

    The S5 has always had a special place for me because I always felt that it had great potential for deliving high IQ at a low price for people that didn't want to spend the money on a Leica or a DMF. It was the kind of camera that I could feel pretty good about recommending to a student or somebody on a budget that didn't need too many features but just wanted good DR and colors. The dynamic range from the S5 was very filmlike in the way that it handled light. The colors were really brilliant, especially the skintones. I had access to the entire lineup of Zeiss F mount lenses and the S5 body was a perfect match for the glass.

    My only real complaints about the camera were the low 6mp resolution and what I considered to be a heavy-handed AA filtration. Those are just my pesonal thoughts and others are free to disagree. But my final analysis on the S5 was that Fuji could have had a winner on it's hands if it were able to release a future version with a 12+ MP resolution and a weaker/non-existant AA filter.

    I'm pretty confident that Fuji can deliver some high IQ if they really want to...and this recent move suggests to me that they are on the way to doing just that...

  42. #92
    Senior Member barjohn's Avatar
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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    I wish someone would have asked them about the AA filter and image stabilization. Do away with the first and add the second and a few more of us will wet our pants.
    V/r John

  43. #93
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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    ... looks like it might be less expensive than I expected. from another mailing list:

    http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/21/f...0-we-go-hands/
    That price is based on the camera as shown at Photokina which lacks a sensor. The sensor will cost extra.

  44. #94
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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Well, it seems they're aiming at introducing it at $1000USD

  45. #95
    Senior Member KeithL's Avatar
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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Star of the show

  46. #96
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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    i took a pic of it to show the relative size in the hands of a user.

    i put it up on my flickr page (for some reason the image isn't loading here) so you can have a look if interested.

    it is not compact (like the Ricoh GRD or other P&S) but neither is the X1 in my opinion. and the X100 is far more solidly built.

    i also go a kick out of the fact that the big mucky-mucks at the booth seemed to look at my M with a chrome 35 with true appreciation.

  47. #97
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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Sweet!
    UPDATE: Fujifilm has confirmed that the X100 will be available around March 2011, at a price in the region of $1000.
    Ref.: http://dpreview.com/articles/photokina2010/Fujifilm/

    That sounds like a nice competitive price! Whether it is in competition with the X1 or the M9, it is more affordable in both cases!

    Francois
    Francois B.

  48. #98
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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Quote Originally Posted by Nettar View Post
    Hang on a minute there, jaapv. I've used Fujinon lenses on large format, and was very impressed...
    Quote Originally Posted by charlesphoto View Post
    Fuji lenses are legendary..... rangefinders, the current MF670, the 690 and 645 lines (some of the sharpest glass ever made)........
    Before the M8 I worked exclusively with roll-film, shooting with various rangefinder cameras [all with good lenses], and view-camera with Linhof/Sneider and Rodenstock lenses. Amongst stiff competition, the 65mm Fujinon on the Fuji 6x9 rangefinder camera may well have been the best lens of them all. Fuji are superb lens makers, any list of doubts I might have about this new camera would not begin with it's lens.

    ............ Chris

  49. #99
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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    I want one!!!!. I signed up at Amazon to be alerted when I could pre-order an X-100.
    I have the X1 and love it, but there are some improvements Leica could make.
    I like the grip, side card slot and viewfinder.

  50. #100
    Super Duper
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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition


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