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Thread: Leica X1 has new competition

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    Leica X1 has new competition

    This is not a Leica camera but surely the camera is aimed at "Leicaisque" photographers. This should give the X1 some serious competition.

    This is the new camera released by Fuji. It is a 35mm f/2 fixed focal length cam with all the other Fuji goodies. Check out the link http://www.finepix-x100.com/

    Svenjosh

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    Senior Member mathomas's Avatar
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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Interesting. You gotta love the name.

    And they've gone for really retro design, with chrome and leatherette, and all the right design cues (way beyond the Oly Pen, IMO), and with the built-in flash in the chrome section, it looks like an old-school rangefinder with a built-in non-TTL meter. They've also put the controls in the right places. Pretty darn interesting, especially with the f/2 lens (I really don't understand why Leica didn't put a true summicron in the X1).

    Thanks for posting...

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Sure it has all the right cues. Every other fixed focal length camera including the likes of Sigma DP series up to Leica X1 has been plagued by focus issues. They neither Auto focus fast nor is manual focus easily accomplished due to their design. Hope this one breaks the trend. The Hybrid EVF specs with 1440000 dots is encouraging for manual focus and I am very interested to see how it performs.

    Maybe this will push Leica to the introduce the X2 will have the summicron f/2 with fast AF.

    Sven josh

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Here's the comment I left on the Fuji site:

    "Wow. If this camera performs at a level commensurate with its looks, specs, and features, Fuji is going to have a huge winner on its hands. I can see it being popular with the Leica folks (such as myself), as an alternative to the X1, and possibly even the M8/9."

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Quote Originally Posted by sven View Post
    Sure it has all the right cues. Every other fixed focal length camera including the likes of Sigma DP series up to Leica X1 has been plagued by focus issues. They neither Auto focus fast nor is manual focus easily accomplished due to their design. Hope this one breaks the trend. The Hybrid EVF specs with 1440000 dots is encouraging for manual focus and I am very interested to see how it performs.

    Maybe this will push Leica to the introduce the X2 will have the summicron f/2 with fast AF.

    Sven josh
    That is because none of the APS-c sized sensors had fast readout from the sensor for CDAF. The sensor Sony developed for the NEX changed that.

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    That site must have crashed...can't get to it.

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Yeah, the slow autofocus performance has turned me off to the X1, though I like just about everything else about it. I really hope Fuji has nailed the focus thing. There is knurling on the lens that looks as if it could be a focus ring (as the aperture has a couple of "grips"). If they've added a true mechanical, manual focus they have really hit the ball out of the park provided the IQ is good (I'm almost certain to buy one). However, I don't see anything on the site, so far (it's very slow) about manual focus, so I'm assuming, for now, it will be sub-optimal in practice (trying not to get my hopes up ).

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    That site must have crashed...can't get to it.
    Yeah, I think they're slammed. I can barely get from page to page.

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    (and here are a few more (parenthesis) in case (i) haven't been (using) enou(gh) in my posts)


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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition


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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    That is because none of the APS-c sized sensors had fast readout from the sensor for CDAF. The sensor Sony developed for the NEX changed that.
    Oh.... This should be good then provided Fuji has the same technology or at least got it from Sony.

    Only the Panasonic GF1 seems to have got the AF sorted and has decent MF options, but it does not have good EVF and for me personally it is difficult to manual focus holding the camera at a distance and watching the LCD.

    Hope the X100 is at least on par with Sony and Panasonic.

    Sure it seems the site is crashed..... Too many hits?

    Svenjosh

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Whoa! Viewfinder looks great, and 10cm close focus...

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition


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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    The specs look great, the hybrid viewfinder is very interesting. Also 5FPS, whoa... Hope it has a decent buffer for all the sports shooters out there. Lol, just kidding, but it sure has 5 FPS

    Svenjosh

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Quote Originally Posted by sven View Post
    for all the sports shooters out there
    Svenjosh
    LOL - sports shooters and 23mm (35mm) lens

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    well I WANT one....its the only digi that Interests me and may bring me back to
    the digital realm

    Love the fact it is a fixed lens....35 is cool
    since on Film I only shoot 50's
    Would be easy to Carry with my Barnack/IIIf Rd....

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Assuming this isn't outrageously priced, I'm buying one for sure!

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    This looks like a great little camera with some innovative features. I hope it performs as good as it looks. One spec (other than the viewfinder) that I found interesting is the "built-in 3 stop ND filter".

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gowin View Post
    This looks like a great little camera with some innovative features. I hope it performs as good as it looks. One spec (other than the viewfinder) that I found interesting is the "built-in 3 stop ND filter".
    I was just going to write about that. Seriously excellent for shooting wide open outdoors. Just a great added feature.

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    I plan to get my order in as soon as one can. If the interest reflected on their web site by its crashing is any indication this will be a hot product. X1's will depreciate very fast with a real competitor offering the things Leica should have offered. It seems to me more like an updated CL (sans interchangeable lenses) than the X1 or any other camera. Sony better get some good lenses to market fast or the NEX will be forgotten by the serious user.
    V/r John

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Quote Originally Posted by barjohn View Post
    I plan to get my order in as soon as one can. If the interest reflected on their web site by its crashing is any indication this will be a hot product. X1's will depreciate very fast with a real competitor offering the things Leica should have offered. It seems to me more like an updated CL (sans interchangeable lenses) than the X1 or any other camera. Sony better get some good lenses to market fast or the NEX will be forgotten by the serious user.
    I want one too. This reminds me of Konica Hexar AF in the film days.

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gowin View Post
    This looks like a great little camera with some innovative features. I hope it performs as good as it looks. One spec (other than the viewfinder) that I found interesting is the "built-in 3 stop ND filter".
    I was also looking at this feature. One my peeves with micro 4/3 is the limited dynamic range that it blows highlights very easily if not carefully exposed. Lot of things to look forward to, in this camera.

    Svenjosh

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Looks lovely. A better link:
    http://finepix.com/x100/en/top.html

    Yes, this sensor size, resolution, FoV, and lens speed can do a lot of what I like to do. I expect it to be expensive, but eh? what price art? ;-)

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Besides everything else it just looks like fun to own. Obvoiusly not the most important element but looks alone are really nice.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Kudos to Fuji for listening and understanding photographers. I really hope it fills the niche...., or at least now sets the new standard, that we all benefit from.
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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Quote Originally Posted by sven View Post
    This is not a Leica camera but surely the camera is aimed at "Leicaisque" photographers. This should give the X1 some serious competition.

    This is the new camera released by Fuji. It is a 35mm f/2 fixed focal length cam with all the other Fuji goodies. Check out the link http://www.finepix-x100.com/

    Svenjosh
    The camera looks beautiful, but I think the final destination for that sensor is a DSLR body.

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    The interest in this camera is so high it has taken their server down.
    V/r John

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Quote Originally Posted by RichA View Post
    The camera looks beautiful, but I think the final destination for that sensor is a DSLR body.
    It may very well be simply a Sony sensor with new microlenses.

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Why would you need those micro lenses on a DSLR? Seems to me it is best suited to applications like a pro NEX.
    V/r John

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    The 'hybrid' OVF is something that I could not understand why Leica or anyone couldn't do before. I mean if little red diodes could be super imposed onto a reverse Galilean optic why not an LCD with frame lines (that could be REALLY accurate) and other data that could be determined by the user to keep things as uncluttered as possible. Sean Reid sorta balked at the idea when I'd mentioned it on another forum (a question on how the Leica M9 might be improved) but I'm delighted to see that Fuji has stepped up to the plate.

    While I think going to all the trouble to make it look 'retro' is a bit unnecessary and would have preferred making it the best it could be regardless of previous approaches I love the simplicity of dials and the elimination of what I've always seen as unnecessary 'scene' modes that only add to complication. All in all keeping it simple.

    The 12.whatever APS-C sensor is a little disappointing in that low noise sensors of up to 18 MP have been achieved and Fuji's track record hasn't always been that stellar. I also hope the optic (which I think is wonderful even though others have mentioned disappointment that the unit doesn't have interchangeable lenses) is up to snuff. There's a lot of good modern glass out there particularly from the likes of Leica, Zeiss and Nikon. Even Sigma has ground some decent optics too.

    I hedged at the X1 when stories of it's sluggish AF surfaced along with disappointing construction in both dials and skin. I hope this is executed to a higher degree of finish and lives up to the hype in both the press release and the PDF I just downloaded.

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    I predict that X1 sales will drop very quickly and prices for used ones will fall even faster. There are just too many short comings in the X1, slow AF, battery doors, un-glues coverings, slow performance, poor LCD resolution, loose dials, thumb wheel focusing, can't select just RAW, and the list goes on. Add an OVF and a handgrip to the X1 and it is no longer very portable. If I owned an X! I would have it already listed for sale.
    V/r John

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Quote Originally Posted by barjohn View Post
    I predict that X1 sales will drop very quickly and prices for used ones will fall even faster. There are just too many short comings in the X1, slow AF, battery doors, un-glues coverings, slow performance, poor LCD resolution, loose dials, thumb wheel focusing, can't select just RAW, and the list goes on. Add an OVF and a handgrip to the X1 and it is no longer very portable. If I owned an X! I would have it already listed for sale.
    Why not wait a day and see what Leica is going to announce....actually only half a day.....

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Will it make any difference to the X1? In other words, will it dramatically alter the existing X1? I seriously doubt it as the sensor in the X1 is a limiting factor on fast AF. If it is an X2 it will still negatively impact the X1. The same would be true for a new X of some kind.
    V/r John

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    I bet it costs more than a (new) X1 and is more in the $2500 to $3000 range.

    It's not competing against the X1 so much as the M9 itself.

    It bested the X1 and M8 well before the specs were even announced. They're going after the more rational potential buyers of M9s, this is the ideal camera for a Canikon pro to get as their photo-journalistic travel camera. Fuji realized it could never catch up with DSLRs and this way they can capture all those Canon and Nikon users without causing them too much trauma -- they won't need to sell all their gear in order to get the Fuji in addition to what they already have.

    My hunch is Canon and Nikon won't have anything to counter until next year, and they are apt to screw it up. I hope I'm wrong and they all introduce competitive cameras tomorrow, but if they do then they really got a lot better at keeping secrets.

    If Fuji gets the user interface right it will be an instant classic, the best camera for 3-4 years, several cycles.
    Last edited by Frank Petronio; 19th September 2010 at 20:15.

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    The price someone has discerned from a Japanese web site is that it will be between $1400 and $1700 US in Japan. If that is true, it will probably be a little less here if other cameras are any indication. I just wonder if Fuji will be able to build them fast enough to meet the demand, especially should they surprise everyone and make them available before Christmas.
    V/r John

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Quote Originally Posted by barjohn View Post
    The price someone has discerned from a Japanese web site is that it will be between $1400 and $1700 US in Japan. If that is true, it will probably be a little less here if other cameras are any indication. I just wonder if Fuji will be able to build them fast enough to meet the demand, especially should they surprise everyone and make them available before Christmas.
    It will be only available in 2011 according to the PDF. Hope it is not a prototype but a fully developed camera, considering there is so much interest in this camera

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    i am running, not walking, to the Fuji booth on Wednesday!!!

    oh, major major lust! and to think, i was just eying picking up a second-hand Hexar AF....

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Frank Petronio for the win! (wherein the named poster nails it dead to rights.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Petronio View Post
    I bet it costs more than a (new) X1 and is more in the $2500 to $3000 range.

    It's not competing against the X1 so much as the M9 itself.

    It bested the X1 and M8 well before the specs were even announced. They're going after the more rational potential buyers of M9s, this is the ideal camera for a Canikon pro to get as their photo-journalistic travel camera. Fuji realized it could never catch up with DSLRs and this way they can capture all those Canon and Nikon users without causing them too much trauma -- they won't need to sell all their gear in order to get the Fuji in addition to what they already have.

    My hunch is Canon and Nikon won't have anything to counter until next year, and they are apt to screw it up. I hope I'm wrong and they all introduce competitive cameras tomorrow, but if they do then they really got a lot better at keeping secrets.

    If Fuji gets the user interface right it will be an instant classic, the best camera for 3-4 years, several cycles.

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Quote Originally Posted by barjohn View Post
    I predict that X1 sales will drop very quickly and prices for used ones will fall even faster. There are just too many short comings in the X1, slow AF, battery doors, un-glues coverings, slow performance, poor LCD resolution, loose dials, thumb wheel focusing, can't select just RAW, and the list goes on. Add an OVF and a handgrip to the X1 and it is no longer very portable. If I owned an X! I would have it already listed for sale.
    The X100 looks like an amazing camera and seems to offer an array of bells and whistles but the one box it doesn't tick is [] compact camera.

    The key reason I still plan to buy an X1 is that it still the best quality compact in town.

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Superb specs! If these really hold in practice then it is definitely a new state of the art.

    I discussed a similar idea about OVF/EVF combination in LUF several years ago, nothing happened except bashing. I think Leica and Leica fans are not really that progressive.

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Georgous camera with a truly awful name, for something so classic, why such an overly digital and forgettable name?

    Let's hope they got the AF right, panasonic G1 right.

    If they make it with a 50mm equivelant then this could be a camera to retire with (not that I'm even halfway there but might be getting out of photography as a profession).
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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Petronio View Post
    It's not competing against the X1 so much as the M9 itself.
    How can a fixed-lens camera compete against a system camera? Or an APS-C against a full frame? Or a Fujinon lens against a Noctilux?

    Having said that it seems to me that finally there is a camera on the market that will cause my wife to let the Digilux2 go.
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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Hang on a minute there, jaapv. I've used Fujinon lenses on large format, and was very impressed. Hasselblad too reckons they are fine. Nettar

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Ok, I'll have a Fujinon 0.95 50 mm then... Large format - yes, Fujinon is fine - so are many others. Looked at the S2 lenses lately?
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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Fujinon lenses are good enough for me. I use a 50/1.2 on APS-C (NEX5). which is better than what ask of in a f/1.2 lens.

    I like the dimensions on this camera. Finally something that is really hand holdable.

    X1? What is that?!

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Quote Originally Posted by jaapv View Post
    Ok, I'll have a Fujinon 0.95 50 mm then... Large format - yes, Fujinon is fine - so are many others. Looked at the S2 lenses lately?
    Well WRT S2 lenses - one could not care less how fine they are, as long as the S System is there it is today and the mid term future. And as long as Leica has no post processing SW out which comes close to either C1 Pro or Phocus.

    BTW - I do love the Fujinon (Hasselblad) lenses. Leica need to invest a lot to come close to the H system.

    I do really like the new Fuji camera as far as can be seen from the specs. And wish leica would have incorporated that idea of the VF in their M9. But there is hope for the M10 :-))

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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    I did not say Fuji builds bad lenses, not at all - nor Canon, nor Nikon, but still - there is a reason people use Leica and Zeiss lenses instead..Somebody presented this camera as a competitor for an M9. Makes no sense imo. One of the reasons is lens quality for the 35 mm format. Where did MF slip into the discussion? Is this Finepix competition for a Hasselblad as well? Anyway, the MTF curves on this Fujinon suggest a good centre and a considerable drop-off to the corners, not in the class of the X1 Elmar, let alone the M9 lenses.
    I probably will be buying it though - whenever it appears on the shelves.
    Last edited by jaapv; 20th September 2010 at 01:04.
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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Looks nice indeed, but it's still vaporware though.... before screaming out loud that you'll be buying better await the final production model first. The vaporware orange olympus springs to mind here.
    And honestly, on paper I can even make my mother in law look totally up to spec!

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    Senior Member ceh's Avatar
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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition


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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Leica X1 has new competition

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    I think Leica and Leica fans are not really that progressive.
    Noooo... really?

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