Leica M9 Titanium

[KurtKamka]

I agree but on the other hand don't announce it at Photokina like it is the kind of big deal that your bread and butter customers are going to thank you for.

Dumb marketing.

LouisB

I think it is far from being dumb marketing. The bottom line is that Leica will be able to quickly add 11,000,000+ Euros gross sales to the bottom line without having to redesign a whole new product and without having to launch a major advertising/marketing campaign to support those 500 units. They should be shouting about it as loud as possible at Photokina to realize those sales. There is not a company that I can think of that values their bottom line that would refuse such an easy win with a product that oozes exclusivity and has such a built-in collector base.

The "bread and butter" Leica customer will gladly watch the feeding frenzy knowing that Leica's major products will continue to be supported by such sales. Perhaps it was some of those limited edition white M8s that were roundly skewered several years ago that funded the unmatched development and release of killer M optics that have been released over the past two years or helped fund the R&D that went into the S2.

There seems to be an insatiable lust for new features on the products that support the lower end of Leica's product lines. I, for one, am happy that Leica is producing those products but am just as happy that they haven't given in to the frantic turnover of new point and shoot, evil, and 4/3rds types of products. I'm afraid that it would distract them from their core product categories (that obviously can't be redesigned every six months by such a small company).

Kurt

 

[Lloyd]

I think they're going to have to sell half the run of the M9 "toy" just to pay for the self-congratulatory dog & pony show they threw yesterday at Photokina. The booze was flowing, and the VIPs aplenty in attendance didn't pay their own way there, you can bet on that.

Sure, they'll make some $$, etc. on this, and I don't fault them on that. And no, they can't come out with a new M every year (and I'm glad they don't), but there's a message of exclusivity and elitism in this announcement that runs very counter to their long-time core constituency, the working photog. (Don't get me wrong, I've been a Leica fanboy for years, shooting Leica since 1968.) Bottom line, I just think this was just the wrong message at the wrong time. The M9 and it's contemporary glass made Leica profitable again, and yet they replace the CEO? I don't know. I'm just troubled by it all on a very fundamental level.

The X100 from Fuji looks promising on paper, and if it performs, and if there are iterations with interchangeable lenses in the future, and at earthly prices, I think Leica may well fighting for its existence yet again. And while we're at it, where are the CS S2 lenses announced two years ago? Like I said, I think it's just the wrong message at the wrong time. The special edition M8s were released quietly, and the collectors still snapped them up. (Personally, I think no Leica camera or lens should be living in shrink wrap in some collection, but "different strokes..."). That might have been a better way to handle this SE as well. Just sayin'... YMMV/

I think it is far from being dumb marketing. The bottom line is that Leica will be able to quickly add 11,000,000+ Euros gross sales to the bottom line without having to redesign a whole new product and without having to launch a major advertising/marketing campaign to support those 500 units. They should be shouting about it as loud as possible at Photokina to realize those sales. There is not a company that I can think of that values their bottom line that would refuse such an easy win with a product that oozes exclusivity and has such a built-in collector base.

The "bread and butter" Leica customer will gladly watch the feeding frenzy knowing that Leica's major products will continue to be supported by such sales. Perhaps it was some of those limited edition white M8s that were roundly skewered several years ago that funded the unmatched development and release of killer M optics that have been released over the past two years or helped fund the R&D that went into the S2.

There seems to be an insatiable lust for new features on the products that support the lower end of Leica's product lines. I, for one, am happy that Leica is producing those products but am just as happy that they haven't given in to the frantic turnover of new point and shoot, evil, and 4/3rds types of products. I'm afraid that it would distract them from their core product categories (that obviously can't be redesigned every six months by such a small company).

Kurt

 

[KurtKamka]

I think they're going to have to sell half the run of the M9 "toy" just to pay for the self-congratulatory dog & pony show they threw yesterday at Photokina. The booze was flowing, and the VIPs aplenty in attendance didn't pay their own way there, you can bet on that.

Sure, they'll make some $$, etc. on this, and I don't fault them on that. And no, they can't come out with a new M every year (and I'm glad they don't), but there's a message of exclusivity and elitism in this announcement that runs very counter to their long-time core constituency, the working photog. (Don't get me wrong, I've been a Leica fanboy for years, shooting Leica since 1968.) Bottom line, I just think this was just the wrong message at the wrong time. The M9 and it's contemporary glass made Leica profitable again, and yet they replace the CEO? I don't know, I'm just troubled by it on a very fundamental level. The X100 from Fuji looks promising on paper, and if it performs, and if there are iterations with interchangeable lenses in the future, and at earthly prices, I think Leica may well fighting for its existence yet again. And where are the CS S2 lenses announced two years ago? Like I said, I think it's just the wrong message at the wrong time. The special edition M8s were released quietly, and the collectors still snapped them up. (Personally, I think no like camera or lens should be living in shrink wrap in some collection, but "different strokes..."). That might have been a better way to handle this SE as well. Just sayin'... YMMV/

All valid points. But do remember that this is a tradeshow. VIPs in attendance are a must as you entertain and reward your best and most profitable customers and dealers (no matter what year it is and what products you are offering). And, you want to provide the best possible image to the press for favorable coverage. Leica did not have anything else to promote at this edition of Photokina ... so something interesting had to take top billing to demonstrate that Leica is still around and relevant. In this case, it just happened to be the M9Ti. In other years, depending on new product introductions, it will be other products.

Finally (as someone who has been significantly involved in the tradeshow industry for the past 10 years), I can certainly remember how shocked I was to see how different the atmosphere of a European show was to an American show the first time I visited one in Europe. European shows are different (especially through an American filter) ... food and flowing alcohol is the norm. What may be perceived as self-congratulatory and boozy in other parts of the world just may be how others go about their business at every show ... whether it is a food, car, healthcare or camera show.

 

[Lloyd]

You're right, and I understand (I've worked trade shows as well, although never in Europe), and agree with that at a certain level. But even if true, I'm even more convinced that they didn't think through the message they convey, and don't even realize how out of touch they are with their "real" consumers. I understand that it was making an event out of a non-event. But a sense of proportion... is that too much to ask?

All valid points. But do remember that this is a tradeshow. VIPs in attendance are a must as you entertain and reward your best and most profitable customers and dealers (no matter what year it is and what products you are offering). And, you want to provide the best possible image to the press for favorable coverage. Leica did not have anything else to promote at this edition of Photokina ... so something interesting had to take top billing to demonstrate that Leica is still around and relevant. In this case, it just happened to be the M9Ti. In other years, depending on new product introductions, it will be other products.

Finally (as someone who has been significantly involved in the tradeshow industry for the past 10 years), I can certainly remember how shocked I was to see how different the atmosphere of a European show was to an American show the first time I visited one in Europe. European shows are different (especially through an American filter) ... food and flowing alcohol is the norm. What may be perceived as self-congratulatory and boozy in other parts of the world just may be how others go about their business at every show ... whether it is a food, car, healthcare or camera show.

 

[KurtKamka]

Lloyd, I hear what you are saying. I believe that even though Leica may have the best intentions, anything that they do that caters to their high end customers is going to come off looking as extravagant to their customers that can only afford their entry level products (with the way that their prices continue to rise, that may soon include me).

I, like others here, think that there is a certain amount of hubris that Leica has regarding their relationship with those that purchase their entry level products (heck, this is probably all their customers considering the level of communication that is displayed). Whether or not this intentional, I don't know, but they could certainly use the services of a PR person or agency that thinks with a more global (geographically and demographically) perspective as they look at their messaging. Much of this awkward dance could be avoided with open and clear communication (without revealing too much to the competition).

 

[monza]

In case anyone wants to order.

Part Number 10715

Leica M9 “Titan” Set comprising of a
Titanium Leica M9 and Summilux-M
35mm/f1.4 ASPH Titanium Lens with a
Titanium Lens Hood

UPC 799429107154

$26,500.00

 

[barjohn]

Could you send me two via FedEx? I don't think one will hold my boat in place.

 

[bradhusick]

Could you send me two via FedEx? I don't think one will hold my boat in place.

Watch out for John... with two he's gonna be the Leica Bandito!

 

[Lloyd]

Well said Kurt. Spot on.:thumbup:

Lloyd, I hear what you are saying. I believe that even though Leica may have the best intentions, anything that they do that caters to their high end customers is going to come off looking as extravagant to their customers that can only afford their entry level products (with the way that their prices continue to rise, that may soon include me).

I, like others here, think that there is a certain amount of hubris that Leica has regarding their relationship with those that purchase their entry level products (heck, this is probably all their customers considering the level of communication that is displayed). Whether or not this intentional, I don't know, but they could certainly use the services of a PR person or agency that thinks with a more global (geographically and demographically) perspective as they look at their messaging. Much of this awkward dance could be avoided with open and clear communication (without revealing too much to the competition).

 

[cam]

Am I allowed to say the handstrap looks sort of interesting????

get a Sling -- it's MUCH cheaper: http://www.leicagoodies.com/

 

[mwalker]

500 x 22000€ = 11 000 000€ :bugeyes:

Yep

 

[Jim Radcliffe]

Re: Jono....Re: Leica M9 Titanium

Hi Jim
Well. We always disagree on this one. I don't believe that Leica have the resources to produce a 'sensibly priced' CL in sufficient quantities to make a profit, and anyway, the M9 and rhe new expensive lenses) seems to have put them into profit for the first time in many years, whereas nobody much bought the excellent and 'sensibly priced' Summarits.
As for Photokina; what did you expect? Two new system cameras in two years, plus the X1 seems like a big deal for a small company.
Added to which, having coughed up for a new M9 less than a year ago I'd be less than overjoyed if it was already replaced.
The commonly held argument that this kind of bling product holds up R&D seems to me to be patently ludicrous.
So:
Significant: NO
But I still fail to see why it's something to complain about.
Back to the Retsina!

Jono, yes, we continue to disagree about a digital CL. Had Leica brought that to Photokina at say $2500-$3000 it would have been a show stealer and the M9Ti would probably have been a yawn.

The M9Ti should not have been the centerpiece at Photokina.. it just perpetuates the stereotype of Leica owners having more money than sense. It was a bad time to announce it with nothing else but re badged pannies and a new black look for the X1. Sorry, their PR folks need to connect with the real users a bit more and keep in touch with the collectors via email.

We disagree, Jono but it doesn't mean we can't be friends. All the best to you.

 

[barjohn]

Watch out for John... with two he's gonna be the Leica Bandito!

Hey brad,


I like the look!

 

[kuau]

popflash is taking orders and they are already on sale !!!
http://www.popflash.com/leica-digit...-full-frame-digital-camera-kit-10715-usa-new/

 

[barjohn]

I hope you got your order in before they are gone.

 

[GrahamWelland]

I noticed that this version has .... sapphire scratch resistant LCD glass. How about that option for the masses? :deadhorse:

Btw, I see Monza is selling at a $3k discount compared to PopFlash which in turn is $5k off list so maybe there's a market here that can be cornered, plus some upside for investors too. :ROTFL: (actually I'm not really joking ... :toocool

 

[tjv]

This is such a joke. Fuji have introduced a killer CL like product with real innovation that every Leica lover has been asking for since the dawn of digital. Leica introduce yet another yawn fest special edition. I have nothing against Leica making a buck this way but, honestly, they have been way out of touch with general photographers for a long time. I hope this wakes an innovative sleeping giant but somehow I doubt it will.

 

[otumay]

I agree. This year's Photokina dazzlers are Fuji X100 and Sigma SD1, in my opinion.

 

[Paratom]

I agree that the x100 does look very interesting.
However I dont see it as a "Leica killer" product. It is not as pockable as the x1 plus it is a future camera. A X1 with an external optical viewinder is still smaller than the x100.

On the other side the x100 is not that much smaller than a Leica M9, which offers a huge selection of interchangable lenses and a full frame sensor.
So its something in between, which might be the answer for some who do want something in between or who do not want to spend that much money (for an M9).
Again, a great product (the x100), but looking at the products we got from Leica over the last years I think it was clear they could not present another totally new camera this time and for my taste the combo of an M9 with interchngable lenses and a x1 as a light and small camera is more usefull.

What makes me really mad is that Leica is not supplying the long time unofficially announced x1 firmware upgrade.

 

[tjv]

To be clear, I don't think the X100 is a "Leica Killer," especially not an M9 killer, but for the price point that is being reported it is certainly going to be a popular product. I think if the X100's AF lives up to expectations, or even EP1 levels, Leica's next move better be pretty damn good for them to keep asking the kind of money they do for M digital bodies.

On another note, I genuinely like the Leica S2. The new grip and firmware improvements, including very well thought out additions like being able to specify "bulb" lengths in menu, are very welcome. I also like the new focusing screen. Price aside, I hope the S system grows in strength. Add some PC lenses and a 50mm lens and I'd be drooling.