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Thread: Ok, Which 35?

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    Deceased, but remembered fondly here... johnastovall's Avatar
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    Ok, Which 35?

    I've reached paralysis by analysis in my quest to add a used 35 to my kit. I'll continue to use my Nokton 35/1.2 for when I need speed.

    It's down to a 35 IV Summicron or the 35 Summicron ASPH. I see the delta in used prices is about 500 dollars.

    What have you all done when looking at this situation? Is the Bokeh worth forgoing newer technology?

    Here's is my folio of the type of shot's I would be using it for, Texas Cafe Life.



    "The market wants a Leica to be a Leica: the inheritor of tradition, the subject of lore, and indisputably a mark of status to own."
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    Subscriber robsteve's Avatar
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    Re: Ok, Which 35?

    John:

    The new 35mm ASPH will be sharper and have better contrast at F2. It doesn't have a bad Bokeh either.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Ok, Which 35?

    John the new ASPH is a little contrast to it also. Robert sharper maybe but i know my version IV is pretty darn sharp wide open. Let's not forget the Summarit either the bokeh on that was sweet and sharp wide open although you lose a half a stop which maybe hard to do with this series your working on.
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    Re: Ok, Which 35?

    I use the 35mm the most of any lens I own, and I cannot recommend the 35/1.4 ASPH enough. I know the Nokton is a half stop faster and offers great performance, but the 35/1.4 ASPH does it all...it is very fast, extremely sharp even wide open, yet it is compact, light, takes 46mm filters, has great ergonomics and excellent bokeh. Rather than having a slow lens and a fast lens, I think you might be better off just selling the Nokton and getting the 35/1.4 ASPH. It is one of the few "do it all" lenses.

    If you are set on having two lenses, the Summarit that Guy mentioned is probably a very good choice. It is small, light, cheaper and only a half-stop slower than the summicron. It also comes coded, which is nice if you currently use or plan to use an M8.

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    Re: Ok, Which 35?

    John somewhat similar to what you are doing ,may want to view it again

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=132
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Ok, Which 35?

    Hi John:

    Good news, bad news... The bad news is you won't get consensus on the answer to this question... The good news is there really isn't a bad choice, and likely is why you hit analysis-paralysis

    The 35 Cron Asph is very sharp even wide open and has great bokeh, but it is also a bit to the contrasty side relative to the other choices. The 35 Lux Asph is a tad softer wide open, but sharpens up to the very nearly Cron Asph performance by f2, and at f2.8 and beyond they run head-to-head on resolution. The Lux has great bokeh and more for my tastes, is a bit softer contrast than the Cron. The IV is an older design and has a very smooth look to it. It is sharp in the center wide open, but fades to a slight softness towards the edges. Bokeh is butter at all apertures and stopped down to f4, it's hard to tell from the Lux Asph in sharpness or contrast, so you kind of get a two-fer use lens. And it is tiny.

    I chose the 35 version IV, but I could have been as happy with the 35 Lux Asph. The main reason I chose the IV was for the unique dual use looks and its bokeh. But you need to keep in mind 35 is not my main focal (I do 28 then 50 then 21), so I only mount the 35 when I'm in the mood for its signature look. I liked both the Lux Asph and the IV, but the Lux Asph was a lot more expensive, larger and some have focus shift issues, so I went for the IV. However, all that said, if 35 were my main focal, I would own the Lux Asph (and probably keep the IV).

    In your case you have the Nocton, and I suspect it renders a bit more like the older Cron, so assuming 35 is a main focal for you, maybe the Cron Asph with more punch is the way to go?

    Cheers,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Ok, Which 35?

    John

    I have both the 35 Lux and the Nokton having bought the Nokton first. Both are fine lenses but to me the 35 Lux is king of that focal length. Frankly I think the bokeh wide open is as good as the (now) revered cron iv and has the extra stop to boot. So if you are only going to have one 35 lens then to me the lux is the one to own. If you are going to keep your Nokton for low light then maybe the cron iv is a good choice. One thing to keep in mind is that a whole lot of folks on these forums find the new cron asph too contrasty for their tastes. They can't all be wrong.
    Woody

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    Re: Ok, Which 35?

    I think the contrast will help in John's situations. He is shooting inside and a lot of night stuff. Contrast will help there. The other thing to keep in mind when talking about the contrast in lenses is it also means they have good flare supression, another good thing for John's work.

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    Re: Ok, Which 35?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post

    The 35 Cron Asph is very sharp even wide open and has great bokeh, but it is also a bit to the contrasty side relative to the other choices. The 35 Lux Asph is a tad softer wide open, but sharpens up to the very nearly Cron Asph performance by f2, and at f2.8 and beyond they run head-to-head on resolution. The Lux has great bokeh and more for my tastes, is a bit softer contrast than the Cron. The IV is an older design and has a very smooth look to it. It is sharp in the center wide open, but fades to a slight softness towards the edges. Bokeh is butter at all apertures and stopped down to f4, it's hard to tell from the Lux Asph in sharpness or contrast, so you kind of get a two-fer use lens. And it is tiny.
    Choosing a 35 is also a big problem for me.

    I had the 35 Lux ASPH which I loved on film, but even after tuning in Solms was only on at 1.4, then 5.6 and smaller. At 2.0 to 5.6 it focus shifted. When I use the 35 on the M8 it is normally at fairly close distances and the rearward focus shift really bothered me.

    I switched to a 35 Cron ASPH, which Leica adjusted for me so well that it really never causes any issue for the focus point at any aperture or any distance. I really like the size of this lens, its sharpness, and bokeh. However, It can be too contasty and transitions to the OOF bokeh are too abrupt for my taste.

    The 35 Cron IV is a little less contrasty compared to the 35 Cron ASPH, but has the Nocti type bokeh in some instances and flares more than the ASPH. So it is out, as I just can't deal with the Nocti bokeh it gives sometimes.

    The new Summarit is not in contention for me, although it is a good lens I truly believe that the Cron ASPH gives more fine detail and should be better in the corners with a future full frame camera (lets hope one comes along eventually). The MTF curves also substantiate this.

    The Zeiss Biogon is out as it is even more contrasty than the Cron ASPH, and uses a different thread for the filters than a 43 mm Leica does. That means you have to use B+W filters which give a different filtering / in camera correction than the Leica filters do.

    I have not tried the CV offerings in 35, but just seeing the size of the 35 1.2 knocks it out of consideration for me.

    At this point, the 35 Cron ASPH stays in the bag but I normally shoot around it with the 28 Cron ASPH or the 50 Lux ASPH.

    My wish is that Leica would reformulate the 35 Lux ASPH to give the same rendering & contrast it does now but without the focus shift issue. If they do, I'm buying it.

    Ray

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    Re: Ok, Which 35?

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyspedden View Post
    John

    I have both the 35 Lux and the Nokton having bought the Nokton first. Both are fine lenses but to me the 35 Lux is king of that focal length. Frankly I think the bokeh wide open is as good as the (now) revered cron iv and has the extra stop to boot. So if you are only going to have one 35 lens then to me the lux is the one to own. If you are going to keep your Nokton for low light then maybe the cron iv is a good choice. One thing to keep in mind is that a whole lot of folks on these forums find the new cron asph too contrasty for their tastes. They can't all be wrong.
    Woody
    I've just about decided to go with the Cron IV and I had planed to keep the Nokton 35/1.2 anyway. I liked Jack description of the two looks. This will save me some dollars for my must have 24/2.8 Elmarit ASPH. It's going to be the only new lens I buy.

    "The market wants a Leica to be a Leica: the inheritor of tradition, the subject of lore, and indisputably a mark of status to own."
    Mike Johnston


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    Re: Ok, Which 35?

    Quote Originally Posted by harmsr View Post
    My wish is that Leica would reformulate the 35 Lux ASPH to give the same rendering & contrast it does now but without the focus shift issue. If they do, I'm buying it.

    Ray

    It's unfortunate that your 35/1.4 asph is shifting on you. Have you tried other copies? I may just be lucky with mine, but it is dead-on and does not seem to shift at all.

    I took this at f/2.8, focused on the eyes:



    Forgive me, as I have posted this in several different places. Nevertheless, I took a number of different shots in this same situation at about this aperture, and they all seemed to be focused on the point I chose. It works at 1.4 as well, so maybe it was just your particular lens that was difficult to get into spec. Or conversely, perhaps mine is just particularly good for some reason...

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    Re: Ok, Which 35?

    Stuart,

    Would you like to sell yours?

    Some people report success like you do, and others all have the focus shift. Leica adjusted my lens with the results that I posted above and then also let me try two other new samples. All of these had the same shifting results of being dead on at 1.4 and after 5.6, but shifting rearward enough to drive the point of focus out of the DOF sweet spot in-between.

    We also reconfirmed my M8 which is "spot-on" with every other lens that I own under all conditions.

    You and Jamie Roberts may have magical ones that just work. Let me know if you want to sell it.

    Best,

    Ray

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    Re: Ok, Which 35?

    Not on your life!

    Seriously though, if it is something where they cannot make them reliably focus at all apertures, it might need a redesign. That's sad though, because I have a hard time believing they could make it as good as it is already with a different design. It's pretty much "perfect" for me in every way I can think of. Maybe there is a bit more flare than I would like in some situations, but other than that it is gold. It and the 75mm summilux are pretty much the only lenses that I have no criticisms of. And even the 75/1.4 has it's one flaw -- it's large size and weight.

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    Re: Ok, Which 35?

    Stuart, that is a very nice photo of a lovely lady. I think I have seen it elsewhere, but I still like it. I currently use a 35 Cron ASPH, but would love to get at 35 Lux that works like yours (no focus shift problems).

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    Re: Ok, Which 35?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnastovall View Post
    I've just about decided to go with the Cron IV and I had planed to keep the Nokton 35/1.2 anyway. I liked Jack description of the two looks. This will save me some dollars for my must have 24/2.8 Elmarit ASPH. It's going to be the only new lens I buy.
    John

    I have a brand new 24 silver Elmarit bought from Popflash. I find that the 28 has become my lenscap and I need and love the 21 Elmarit. So I am going to sell the 24. If you are interested please PM me or write to me at [email protected]

    Woody

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    Re: Ok, Which 35?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnastovall View Post
    I've just about decided to go with the Cron IV and I had planed to keep the Nokton 35/1.2 anyway. I liked Jack description of the two looks. This will save me some dollars for my must have 24/2.8 Elmarit ASPH. It's going to be the only new lens I buy.
    John:

    Didn't you already buy the 35mm Cron a few days ago? I though I read in a post that you ordered a Canadian one.

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    Re: Ok, Which 35?

    Quote Originally Posted by robsteve View Post
    John:

    Didn't you already buy the 35mm Cron a few days ago? I though I read in a post that you ordered a Canadian one.
    I was. It was German vs Canadian. Emailed the seller who had both (two emails) and he has never replied. I have has this happen once before with him on another piece of gear he had. Yet on another transaction he was very communicative. I've written him off for now. I've found one and the ASPH both at a New York dealer who appears more responsive to inquires.

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    Re: Ok, Which 35?

    I have the 35 Lux ASPH and have difficulty foucusing accurately at f1.4 closeup. Pity the lens (bought new) just sits at home after a few shots. I actually prefer the UC-Hexanon with its small size and better build.

    There are simply too many choices for the 35mm. I also have the Biogon and the Cron IV also, and will be adding the Cron ASPH and the M-Hexanon in the near future.

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    Re: Ok, Which 35?

    Why? What's wrong with the other ones?

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    Re: Ok, Which 35?

    Quote Originally Posted by robsteve View Post
    John:

    The new 35mm ASPH will be sharper and have better contrast at F2. It doesn't have a bad Bokeh either.
    When you say "better" contrast are you thinking more or less contrast? It has more but perhaps not better.

    Cheers,

    Sean

  21. #21
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    Re: Ok, Which 35?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    I use the 35mm the most of any lens I own, and I cannot recommend the 35/1.4 ASPH enough. I know the Nokton is a half stop faster and offers great performance, but the 35/1.4 ASPH does it all...it is very fast, extremely sharp even wide open, yet it is compact, light, takes 46mm filters, has great ergonomics and excellent bokeh. Rather than having a slow lens and a fast lens, I think you might be better off just selling the Nokton and getting the 35/1.4 ASPH. It is one of the few "do it all" lenses.

    If you are set on having two lenses, the Summarit that Guy mentioned is probably a very good choice. It is small, light, cheaper and only a half-stop slower than the summicron. It also comes coded, which is nice if you currently use or plan to use an M8.
    I love the 35/1.4 ASPH.

    Cheers,

    Sean

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Ok, Which 35?

    I like the 35 cron version IV , I like the Lux too but we all have different tastes in glass. So nice to have so many choices and 35mm I can't begin to count, there are so many over the years for the M system
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    Re: Ok, Which 35?

    My strong preference is also for the 35 Lux Asph. I started a thread once on LUF to compare the 35 Lux Asph, 35 Cron Asph, and 35 Cron IV. Perhaps it might help you make up your mind. The lenses are all very good or great:

    http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-...s-35-cron.html
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