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"I Wonder Why" R Lens Ponderings @ 120kph

Stuart Richardson

Active member
Nice...so it is ok to give us an M8 that fails frequently and requires IR filters, but the R10 has to be good! ;)

--offered in (half) jest by a weary M8 and DMR owner. Though my DMR will be sold by tomorrow on eBay...
 

woodyspedden

New member
Over on LUF there are some comments from (IIRC) a Leica Europe exec during a meeting with some users (I assume) saying (re: Photokina):
----------
"Mr. Daniel from Leica told us some interesting things:

R-System:
- No new R lens at photocina
- R9 still in production (on low level)
- autofocus may come (manual focus is not a dogma for leica)

We had many questions, but no concrete info about a new digital R Camera.

This is from a French thread, the German user Forum confirms this information
after the Meeting last weekend.

Apparently we will have to wait for a R10 another year, maybe with the help of
Jenoptik they will make it.

As it was said in this thread: The challenge to do it right with a DSRL R10 is
much higher than with DRF M8, R10 will have to face fiercest competition."
-----------------

A lot of changes can happen with a CEO change - prior chap may have been making promises or implications Leica wasn't ready/willing to deliver on - at least this year.

Personally - I think R users should plan as if any R10 as they'd like to see it (*) has a low probability of becoming a market reality (vs. a trade show mockup) any time soon. Plan accordingly and if they pull a rabbit out of a hat in '09 or '10, see what the market alternatives look like at that point.

With Nikon shaking things up with the D3/x and now (it looks like) D700, plus what Canon will do in response to same, PLUS the NEW added pressure from $10,000 entry MFDB kits - the longer Leica waits the worst the business case becomes - and the less likely the R10 trigger will (or should) be pulled.

* As a tech head I'm all for an R10. But from a business perspective I fail to see ANY wisdom in getting into the DSLR market (at least on their own) at this juncture. Sony is one thing, but for a firm with Leica's issues (service & support), small size and resources it could cost the company dearly.
Certainly makes my decision to sell my R glass look wise at this point. I love my M8 and the glass to go with it so I continue to hope for the best for Leica Camera. But like the others I have a hard time seeing how they manage the business realities facing them.

Woody
 

cmb_

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Yes Woody, you may be right. However, although I feel a little anxious waiting to see what will develop in the R line I still get immense pleasure using the DMR and the R lenses! I now have the M8 as well and it is a joy to carry around after lugging the R kit but I cannot knock the files from the DMR and I think they may even have an edge on the files from the M8. The DMR really delivers.
 

robsteve

Subscriber
I now have the M8 as well and it is a joy to carry around after lugging the R kit but I cannot knock the files from the DMR and I think they may even have an edge on the files from the M8. The DMR really delivers.
I totally agree.

Robert
 

robsteve

Subscriber
Certainly makes my decision to sell my R glass look wise at this point. I love my M8 and the glass to go with it so I continue to hope for the best for Leica Camera. But like the others I have a hard time seeing how they manage the business realities facing them.

Woody

It is going to make it very expensive to get back into the R system if the R10 is the next best thing next to sliced bread :)

BTW, I mounted my 180mm APO summicron in front of a view camera and the image circle was 38-40mm. Certainly in MFDB territory and a bigger than 35mm sensor. There are probably other R lenses with large image circles too.

Robert
 

woodyspedden

New member
Rob

I have no doubt that in the 135 realm nothing touches the R glass. My only point is that if Leica is not committed to a new R digital body then my decision to sell the R glass and go with the H3DII-39 looks wise. The corollary of course is that Leica does come out with an R10 and those of us who sold are now stranded. But I also really like the new Nikon Zooms and expect them to introduce new fast primes probably at this year's photokina. They now have the D3 which is a superb instrument and a pending D3X with up to 25 mpx in the offing. The photosites of course will be small so it won't really compete with the D3 in the high ISO world but will in terms of lower ISO resolution.

Lots of stuff to ponder, that's for sure.

Best

Woody
 

jaapv

Subscriber Member
Well, Woody, last weekend the guys in Solms insisted there will be an R10 in the not too distant future, info at Photokina. Stephan Daniel said litterally: "I'm not selling my R lenses". My guess would be halfway next year..... The reinstatement of the cooperation with Jenoptik/Sinar might well speed things up.
 

Steen

Senior Subscriber Member
[snip] ... BTW, I mounted my 180mm APO summicron in front of a view camera and the image circle was 38-40mm. Certainly in MFDB territory and a bigger than 35mm sensor. There are probably other R lenses with large image circles too.

Robert
Robert, I don't quite get what you mean here, because a 24x36mm frame has a diameter of 43.3mm, right ... ?
/Steen
 

robsteve

Subscriber
Steen:

I see what you are getting at :) I must have been measuring the radius. It was on a 4x5 inch ground glass and the image circle took up a pretty big part of it.

Robert
 

woodyspedden

New member
I totally agree.

Robert
I agree as well. I should never have sold the DMR and then where would I be now? Well I wouldn't have the H3DII-39 and that would be a shame. In point of fact the H3D kit is not much heavier than the Nikon D3 and of course the files are way way different and most times better. (But never when you need an ISO greater than 800 and 400 may be closer to the real limit.) But the DR is fantastic and the colors and resolution are to die for. For those of us who print large, this is the kit to own. And as I say, carrying it is little different from carrying the D3.

So I won't continue to lament the loss of the DMR but I certainly won't get rid of my trusty and beautiful M8. Now here is the travel camera that can get 90% of what we need and want from a 35mm camera. Great files with great color and the lightest carry-on on the planet.

Go Leica

Woody
 

woodyspedden

New member
Well, Woody, last weekend the guys in Solms insisted there will be an R10 in the not too distant future, info at Photokina. Stephan Daniel said litterally: "I'm not selling my R lenses". My guess would be halfway next year..... The reinstatement of the cooperation with Jenoptik/Sinar might well speed things up.
Jaap

I certainly hope so because MFDB is just not for everyone. But the main reason why is price! DSLR's have tradionally been much, much less expensive than MFDB and that is changing. If you look at the price of the R/DMR system including the magnificent R lenses you are in the same (stratosphere) as the MFDB. One would only guess at the price of the R10 (and any new AF lenses that would be part of it) and conclude that it will be right in the sweet price spot of the MFDB systems, be they Mamiya, Sinar, or Hasselblad. Difference is the quality and availability of longer and Macro lenses in addition to the usual lenses.

I am very pleased I went with the Hasselblad H3DII-39. I also wish that Leica would have made clear their plans for the continuation of the R system so I could have made a clearer choice based on data rather than opinion!!!

I am now getting absolutely wonderful files from my Hasselblad system in addition to being able to effectively use all of my V lenses as well. Would, or will the R system be so good as to make me feel that I jumped too soon and should have kept lenses like the 35-70 Elmarit, 70-210 Elmarit etc and waited for the R10. Perhaps and probably. But life goes on and who knows what the next generation brings.

I will probably always feel that the Leica R glass stands at the top of the mountain. But we have jobs to do today and the stodgy slow approach of Leica, coupled with the fantastically poor communications about plans to the loyal following of Leica owners makes long term planning difficult at least. Most of the bitching from the Leica community to the head guys at Leica is justifiable and leica could eliminate or at least minimize it in a heartbeat.

I will always be a Leica "junky" and the M8 will probably be in my bag until I pass on. (Now 71 and counting! LOL) But the R system is now out of my "system" but I hope that it will be all that you younger guys and girls want and will be happy with for years to come.

This is not a rant..........this is a hope for the future generation of Leica shooters.

Woody
 
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