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Thread: M9 sensor glass cracked all by itself!

  1. #51
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    Re: M9 sensor glass cracked all by itself!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    sorry, a bit , but Leica glass seems to have its niche in the 35mm format worls. I have not been impressed with their glass that awful much on the S2. Granted it is nice, but not uniquely so.
    -bob
    That's what I've been thinking too, admittedly judging only from the S2 output that's been published here on the forum and my long experience with M Leicas. For me, the uniquely nice glass in MF remains Zeiss for Hasselblad V (I am a Rollei/Schneider user now but my best ever images were shot on film with the Planar 110 or Superachromat 250, on an old beaten-up 203FE which I sold as part of my transition to digital..). Ok, my rant is even more , apologies

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    Re: M9 sensor glass cracked all by itself!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    sorry, a bit , but Leica glass seems to have its niche in the 35mm format worls. I have not been impressed with their glass that awful much on the S2. Granted it is nice, but not uniquely so.
    -bob
    Thats an interesting observation Bob - what glass in MF do you think is as good ( hopefully better) as its Leica equivalents? I am intereted to know because (so far) I only have the 70mm. In close focussing, sharpness, contrast, micro contrast, wide open and bokeh tests - it outperforms all the 80mm equivalents from Hasselblad ( H and CF, Rollie and Mamiya) I have loved the Contax fast 80 - but it is soft in comparison wide open.

    I would love to be able to say ( for example) that the Zeiss lenses I have accumulated over time are as good as the leica S2 on an S2 - and look forward to making these tests when I get an adaptor - it would save me a small fortune!

    Good as the Schneider 40mm is or the Zeiss CFE (floating glass) 40mm from Zeiss - some examples I have seen of the 35mm from Leica in close focussed use (which is my acid test) sees the Leica 35mm blow these away in sharpness corner to corner and out of camera distortion tests. The 35mm from Leica is actually better tested against wides from Schneider and Rodenstock to get real peer comparison quality - and then you have to say Leica eats these in terms of aperture range, autofocus and shutter speed range..

    Of course all these observations are subjective and personal but interested in your opinion as to why you havent been impressed "that awful much" and which lenses in particular?

    Pete

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    Re: M9 sensor glass cracked all by itself!

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Thats an interesting observation Bob - what glass in MF do you think is as good ( hopefully better) as its Leica equivalents? I am intereted to know because (so far) I only have the 70mm. In close focussing, sharpness, contrast, micro contrast, wide open and bokeh tests - it outperforms all the 80mm equivalents from Hasselblad ( H and CF, Rollie and Mamiya) I have loved the Contax fast 80 - but it is soft in comparison wide open.

    I would love to be able to say ( for example) that the Zeiss lenses I have accumulated over time are as good as the leica S2 on an S2 - and look forward to making these tests when I get an adaptor - it would save me a small fortune!

    Good as the Schneider 40mm is or the Zeiss CFE (floating glass) 40mm from Zeiss - some examples I have seen of the 35mm from Leica in close focussed use (which is my acid test) sees the Leica 35mm blow these away in sharpness corner to corner and out of camera distortion tests. The 35mm from Leica is actually better tested against wides from Schneider and Rodenstock to get real peer comparison quality - and then you have to say Leica eats these in terms of aperture range, autofocus and shutter speed range..

    Of course all these observations are subjective and personal but interested in your opinion as to why you havent been impressed "that awful much" and which lenses in particular?

    Pete

    Well it is a tough comparison and it depends about what you care about of course. On the Leica side we have the S2 and on the Phase side a P65+, so right away there are a few other factors in play.

    I tend to evaluate a lens not by absolute contrst and sharpness, indeed I think it possible that a lens can be too sharp.
    The MF lenses that have impressed me from the perspective of great over-all look and sharper then the sensor can resolve to the corners have bee the Schneider 80LS and 110LS (the 55LS not so other than one sample) these have a beautiful look of a combination of crispness all-over one stop down and totally acceptable sharpness but a beautiful look wide open.
    For pure clinical sharpness, however, on the Phamiya body, the Phase 150D just is almost too sharp for the ladies LOL. I think that if you like the Zeiss look you would like the 150D

    The 47 digitar looks great at f/11 the 35 and wider non-retrofocals get weird on the edges and corners mainly due to the angle of incidence to the sensor. I am hoping to see how the IQ180 is in this regard since it is too soon to tell

    I have high hopes for the new 40 and 60 but I am in reset-mode on tech cameras. I am really afraid I will like the Rodenstock retro-wides on a Rm3Di which may suck me in if I like them too much.
    -bob

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    Re: M9 sensor glass cracked all by itself!

    Oh ok - you are referring to a preference regrding the new LS lens formulations from schneider /Mamiya..I can't comment on these as I have not shot with them on a mamiya - I do use a number of Schneiders in rollie mount and they render beautifully - my favourite is the 180 Xenotar - sharp as a razor balde at focus and beautiful soft roll off from there.

    Intereting your thoughts on the 35digitar- I havent' shot with a P65+ but havent seen any poor performance with this lens with am H#D11-39 back ( only 40 megapixels but lful frame enough ) or a P45+ or a Leaf 75 and certainly not with a Sinar 75LV - you ar eno wthe second peron who has indicated a weakness atteh edgees on a P65+ - interesting. For me on Alpa it is THE go to lens for wide. My investigations showed that the P65+ as a back has weknesses at teh edges with a lot of wides...(but thats another story)

    Of course there are new formulations now out from both Rodenstock and Schneider at or around this focal length with larger image circles - which will offer better scope for shifts @ 10K a pop they better be THAT much better!

    Pete

    Check out the Alpa correction software btw - it works a treat.

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    Re: M9 sensor glass cracked all by itself!

    Happy ending...
    I got my M9 back from Leica NJ two days ago and they installed a new sensor and calibrated the meter. Everything is now up to spec on the camera, and they included a new certificate, all for free (except the shipping back to NJ). That was a three week process, which I consider to be reasonable.

  6. #56
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    Re: M9 sensor glass cracked all by itself!

    If I didn't like the ergonomics and (ultimately) the image quality of the M9 system so much, I would have lost my patience. The first M9 I got had a shutter failure right out of the box. Dealer took it back no questions. The second one I got was a dealer's personal demo so I knew it had no problems and has been perfect since the day I got it. Then, I purchased a 75 cron that had focusing problems. Back to the dealer (different one), no questions. The latest new lens I got focuses perfectly and is so sharp it out-resolves the sensor. Go figure. I finally have a system that is utterly fantastic, but I more or less went through customer hell to get there.

    Honestly, I know the M8 and M9 represent huge technological leaps for Leica, so I can understand SOME quality problems as they work the kinks out. They are on a really steep learning curve. But, I'm sorry, lens problems should never ever happen, whether they are backlogged or not. If it's this bad for us, imagine what the dealers are going through. Moral of the story, be prepared for stumbling blocks along the way, but when you finally get what you're looking for, WOW!

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    Re: M9 sensor glass cracked all by itself!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Well it is a tough comparison and it depends about what you care about of course. On the Leica side we have the S2 and on the Phase side a P65+, so right away there are a few other factors in play.

    I tend to evaluate a lens not by absolute contrst and sharpness, indeed I think it possible that a lens can be too sharp.
    The MF lenses that have impressed me from the perspective of great over-all look and sharper then the sensor can resolve to the corners have bee the Schneider 80LS and 110LS (the 55LS not so other than one sample) these have a beautiful look of a combination of crispness all-over one stop down and totally acceptable sharpness but a beautiful look wide open.
    For pure clinical sharpness, however, on the Phamiya body, the Phase 150D just is almost too sharp for the ladies LOL. I think that if you like the Zeiss look you would like the 150D

    The 47 digitar looks great at f/11 the 35 and wider non-retrofocals get weird on the edges and corners mainly due to the angle of incidence to the sensor. I am hoping to see how the IQ180 is in this regard since it is too soon to tell

    I have high hopes for the new 40 and 60 but I am in reset-mode on tech cameras. I am really afraid I will like the Rodenstock retro-wides on a Rm3Di which may suck me in if I like them too much.
    -bob
    Bob (and Peter A)

    The only Leica lens for the S2 that I don't have is the 120mm Macro. The other three to me are just fantastic. I compare the 35mm with my copy of the Zeiss 40 CFE/IF and frankly there is no comparison. The lack of distortion on the Leica 35 just blows the other out of the water. Now I admittedly have no experience with the offerings from Mamiya/Phase, nor have I had the opportunity to shoot with either Rodenstock or Schneider MF lenses. I hear these are fantastic. But as I compare the Leica 35mm to the Zeiss and to other 35mm lenses I have owned such as the Leica R offerings, the S2 version blows them away.

    I am also impressed as can be with the 180mm S2 lens. It so reminds me of the Leica 180 2.8 R lens and that was one of my all time favorites. (Wish I'd kept it and had Leitax install a new mount for Nikon Dammit!). I think Mark Gowin's work shown on this thread is a testament to what the lens can do.

    I guess I will never totally understand the logic of a lens being "too sharp." There are so many ways of reducing sharpness in software (just back off clarity a bit in Lightroom or ACR for example and you can make portraits much more flattering if that is your desire.) Or you can use optical filters e.g. Softars from Zeiss to creatively reduce the sharpness. But trying to get an unsharp lens to be critically sharp is impossible. You can increase clarity or sharpness controls but these are basically contrast controls and do nothing for resolution.

    So color me addicted to very sharp lenses. Of course JMHO

    Woody

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    Re: M9 sensor glass cracked all by itself!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    sorry, a bit , but Leica glass seems to have its niche in the 35mm format worls. I have not been impressed with their glass that awful much on the S2. Granted it is nice, but not uniquely so.
    -bob
    I get a big how Leica comments lead to ... then insecurity and

    Man up S2 users ... we know these are the best MFD lenses ever made!

    IMO, the 120/2.5 Macro "isn't unique" is a statement from someone who hasn't used one ... finally a macro that beats the Zeiss Contax 120/4, which IMHO no one has surpassed for a combo of sharpness and character ...until now. The S35mm is the best MFD 35mm I've ever used from anyone ... at least as sharp across the frame as the 40IF without all the distortion (which I also HATED about the Zeiss-Contax 35mm). Oh, and the lovely S180 ... the soul-mate in character and 3D feel to the Leica R180/2.8 APO, my all time favorite 35mm tele-optic. The S70 barks with the best normal MFD lens ever made and then some ... but isn't built like an afterthought kit lens.

    Ya gotta go with what ya love. I like the Leica look and the S delivers it ... very similar to the newer M lenses and hard to tell apart when shot together in the same lighting.

    I'm sure the Schneider lenses are great ... for you Bob ... use them in good health.

    -Marc

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    Re: M9 sensor glass cracked all by itself!

    Well, finally, a lively thread

    Bringing out all the best in the group. I would be a chicken not to pipe in
    1) I had the M9 crack problem, was fixed by Leica free, quickly (and camera came back looking new!
    2) The issue was the Kodak sensor and spontaneous fracture
    3) My first P45+ actially had a bubble in the sensor (Phase was keenly interested, because it may have been due to shipping a sensor with gas trapped that outgassed at high altitude shipping) [NB: iPad 2 has a similar issue; due to bonding agent not drying. Goes away. We consumers DO demand everythig yesterday.]
    4) Cameras are not airplanes or pacemakers; these have triple and quadruplely redundant systems that often break...you just don't hear about it till it's on page ONE.
    5) These are really cutting edge products...remember when people said you couldn't even MAKE a rangefinder digital, certainly not a FULL FRAME
    6) I have the 120/4 Contax, the 250 350 SA and did test the S2 for a few wekks. Like Marc, I was impressed (just didn't rush YET to get the S2...IQ180 comes first

    Except for #6 these are facts, not oppinions.

    regards
    Victor

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