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Thread: Pre Asph Summiluxes

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Pre Asph Summiluxes

    I know from discussions that many forum members list their pre asph summiluxes as either their favorite or just after the 28 cron . so like any true believer ..I am of course wondering ....why don t I have one ? generally I would be looking for the best available model so I need a little insight. When Leica changed the 50 summilux to a built in hood (96-97?) they changed the filter to a E46 and also reduced the close focus distance to 0.7M. Is this correct ..prior to the built in hood they were all E43? The optical formula is the same so 50 summiluxes from the 80 s are the same as the ones up to the ASPH model. Any insights on what I should be looking for and where I might find one?

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    Re: Pre Asph Summiluxes

    The advice I got from Jack was to look for one with the built-in hood and the close-focusing distance at 0.7m, as you described. More than that I do not know. I still don't have one . . . yet!

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    Re: Pre Asph Summiluxes

    Your information sounds correct. In addition, I think Leica updated the coatings on the later lenses.

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    Senior Member irakly's Avatar
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    Re: Pre Asph Summiluxes

    i don't know... my favorite 1.4/50 is of the first version with 43mm filter thread, not the one with a built-in hood.
    as for 1..4/35, there are two versions. the first one is more collectible and can be found in chrome, but the second version is vastly improved in terms of image quality. you have to have a 12504 hood if you want to use this lens with m8. otherwise there is no way to put an UV/IR filter on it.

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Pre Asph Summiluxes

    Hi Glen.

    There are at least 2 versions of the E43 and at least 1 earlier version that uses ser VII filters. All of these versions only focus to 1 meter and have detachable hoods. The earliest ones have 2-piece hoods that house the Ser VII filters while the later ones use an E43 filter. The last pre-asph version focuses to .7 meters, has a built-in sliding hood and uses E46 filters.

    Now re performance characteristics. I am referring to the f4 and under range as by f5.6 they are all pretty much like any other 50mm M lens. The E43 is excellent, being very sharp centrally with a pleasant fall-off in resolution as you hit the corners at widest apertures. The older Ser VII is nice too, but notably lower contrast and not as crisp centrally as the newer ones, and shows a more classic "swirly" background bokeh when used wide open that can sometimes go "clumpy." The E46 model is very close to the E43 in rendering, but exhibits slightly less resolution fall-off towards the corners and slightly higher micro-contrast, but surprisingly may not be quite as sharp centrally wide open. Understand the differences I am describing between E43 and E46 here are very minor and you'd probably need to compare images side by side to quantify them. Both have very smooth bokeh and render quite similarly (IMO) to the 28 Cron.

    At the end of the day, I would/could be quite happy with either E43 or E46. I probably have a slight preference for the E43 rendering, but a stronger preference for the E46's closer focus ability, so that is the version I currently use.

    Hope this helps!
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Pre Asph Summiluxes

    Jack I knew you were the expert on this lens as you have talked about it before. I am unnecessarily adding to my full bag of M lenses because this is what I enjoy shooting. So I am after a chrome E46 pre asph 50 lux!

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    Super Moderator Cindy Flood's Avatar
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    Re: Pre Asph Summiluxes

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    snip... So I am after a chrome E46 pre asph 50 lux!
    That is the one!

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Pre Asph Summiluxes

    I'd be willing to bet you a steak that if you like the way the 28 Cron renders, you're going to love the E46 Pre-asph 50 Lux

    As you probably already know, the Chrome is about 10 times as hard to find as the black, but they are out there. One tip if it has to chrome and nothing else will do, is Leica made a special run of this lens in LTM -- Yes, thread-mount, as a collectible that fizzled. But it's the same optics and usually sells for 1/3 less than a comparable M mount version, just needs an LTM to M adapter. (For posterity in the thread, it was also made in Titanium, Black-Paint and Gray Hammertone!)

    Cheers,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Pre Asph Summiluxes

    I am an ebay scavenger ... keeps my mind off the market ... I missed on a chrome 50 lux at 1333.....I think I bid 1325....not in a hurry . my 3rd M8 is chrome and I would like to set it up ..for show! LOL

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    Re: Pre Asph Summiluxes

    Here's a chrome one for sale on the RFF: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/phot...5/limit/recent

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Pre Asph Summiluxes

    Thanks Kevin and Cindy for the heads up on RF buy sell. Individual has no buy sell experience and only 2 posts . He would/could not provide any ebay experience . So I am still looking . Too bad as this is the exact model...

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    Re: Pre Asph Summiluxes

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    Thanks Kevin and Cindy for the heads up on RF buy sell. Individual has no buy sell experience and only 2 posts . He would/could not provide any ebay experience . So I am still looking . Too bad as this is the exact model...
    Try calling Sean at Camera West. He tends to have some lenses that aren't listed.

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    Re: Pre Asph Summiluxes

    I agree call Sean. He has more stuff there than you can count. Tell him you are a member here also. He loves the folks here.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Pre Asph Summiluxes

    I have talked to Sean a few times and know his roots. He started working the counter at Jack s in Muncie Indiana. Believe it or not this was the play to buy Leica 20 years ago. They would trade for anything on new Leica ..before eBay and the forums this was really important. I will give him a call. Thanks Roger

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Pre Asph Summiluxes

    Received a Chrome 50 Pre Asph Lux today. I can see why its a keeper..what a beautiful rendering . Seems very consistent with the 28 Cron... smooth . You can pick out a single line of type in the NYT at close focus and 1.4. Thanks to all that sent me ideas on where to find one.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Pre Asph Summiluxes

    Your going to love it Roger
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Pre Asph Summiluxes

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    Received a Chrome 50 Pre Asph Lux today. I can see why its a keeper..what a beautiful rendering . Seems very consistent with the 28 Cron... smooth . You can pick out a single line of type in the NYT at close focus and 1.4. Thanks to all that sent me ideas on where to find one.
    Congrats....
    Where did you find it?

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    Re: Pre Asph Summiluxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Cindy Flood View Post
    That is the one!
    Roger

    I would sell you my chrome pre asph E43 with sliding hood but then I would have to kill you! LOL

    You'll find one but the chrome ones are getting prohibitively expensive.

    Best to Carolyn

    Woody (and Phyllis of course)

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    Super Moderator Cindy Flood's Avatar
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    Re: Pre Asph Summiluxes

    Roger,
    I know you will love it. I'm so glad you found one.
    Cindy

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Pre Asph Summiluxes

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyspedden View Post
    Roger

    I would sell you my chrome pre asph E43 with sliding hood but then I would have to kill you! LOL

    You'll find one but the chrome ones are getting prohibitively expensive.

    Best to Carolyn

    Woody (and Phyllis of course)
    Woody Quick update for you and Phyllis. Carolyn has turned into a fulltime photographer. (when she isn t playing Golf). We just returned from two weeks in a loft apartment in Paris . Carolyn matched me with 2000 images over the 12 days of shooting. She uses both the Vlux (which she insisted on after the trip to Germany ) and my DLux 2 because she likes the 16:9 wideangles . She has got me with the 420MM equivalent plus image stabization. She goes to Apple One on One classes every week and is now using Aperature and just starting to do everything in Raw. She has produced 5-6 books in one year.

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Pre Asph Summiluxes

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Congrats....
    Where did you find it?
    Cindy pointed me to the RF forum buy sell. I have found several lenses there ...its really here(GETdpi) and the RFF for M8 stuff. I check every morning as the best items move immediately. I was outbid on eBay twice .

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Pre Asph Summiluxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Cindy Flood View Post
    Roger,
    I know you will love it. I'm so glad you found one.
    Cindy
    Thanks for the heads up on locating it.

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    Re: Pre Asph Summiluxes

    Roger, I am glad to hear Carolyn is honing her skills. She got some good images on the Germany trip last year so its no surprise she is shooting more. I am sure y'all had a great time in Paris. It is a great place for photography... and eating.... and drinking...

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Pre Asph Summiluxes

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    Woody Quick update for you and Phyllis. Carolyn has turned into a fulltime photographer. (when she isn t playing Golf). We just returned from two weeks in a loft apartment in Paris . Carolyn matched me with 2000 images over the 12 days of shooting. She uses both the Vlux (which she insisted on after the trip to Germany ) and my DLux 2 because she likes the 16:9 wideangles . She has got me with the 420MM equivalent plus image stabization. She goes to Apple One on One classes every week and is now using Aperature and just starting to do everything in Raw. She has produced 5-6 books in one year.
    Man she really got bitten in Germany. Good for her. Now you both need to come to the lighting workshop. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Pre Asph Summiluxes

    Thanks Mark and Guy. Carolyn said something like .....What ?You are going to europe to wander the streets at all hours? Next thing I know she is a photographer .....fortunately she doesn t have any real interest in gear .

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    Re: Pre Asph Summiluxes

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    ...fortunately she doesn t have any real interest in gear .
    . . . yet

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    Workshop Member tollie's Avatar
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    Re: Pre Asph Summiluxes

    hey Roger,

    I really want to see some of the pictures you made with your pre-a lux. To prime the pump here is one I shot recently... heavy processing but you can see how it draws especially the oof... just wonderful.

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Pre Asph Summiluxes

    Quote Originally Posted by tollie View Post
    hey Roger,

    I really want to see some of the pictures you made with your pre-a lux. To prime the pump here is one I shot recently... heavy processing but you can see how it draws especially the oof... just wonderful.
    I really need to do some comparisons as I now have most of the available 50s...asph,preasph,noctilux,summicron and the zm planar. If you want sharp ..its the asph or the planar . The noctilux has the best bokeh(for my taste) but is just to bulky for a 3-4 hour walk on the street. Its perfect for evening or daybreak. What I am looking for in the preasph is something between the Noctilux and the asph with a smooth bokeh. Looks like thats how it renders.

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    Re: Pre Asph Summiluxes

    Roger - good luck with the new 50mm! Glad you found what you were seeking. I am in the process of purchasing the chrome one you passed up on RFF. It should arrive beginning of next week. I am looking forward to it.

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    Workshop Member tollie's Avatar
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    Re: Pre Asph Summiluxes

    The colors it draws are also wonderful. This shot is right from the camera... zero pp... and man I love drag'en the shutter.

    By the way this was a mixed lighting situation and the m8 auto wb did a great job.

    Todd

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Pre Asph Summiluxes

    Got to love that combo, eh Todd?

    ,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Pre Asph Summiluxes

    Todd,
    I'm lovin' that dragging the shutter shot.

    Charles,
    Congratulations on the new lens. Do you think that you will keep the summarit, too?

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    Workshop Member tollie's Avatar
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    Re: Pre Asph Summiluxes

    Yes Jack, you and Guy turned me on to the 50 pre lux... now it seems to live on the M8.

    Todd

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    Re: Pre Asph Summiluxes

    Quote Originally Posted by tollie View Post
    The colors it draws are also wonderful. This shot is right from the camera... zero pp... and man I love drag'en the shutter.

    By the way this was a mixed lighting situation and the m8 auto wb did a great job.

    Todd
    Todd, I was under the impression that dragging the shutter was a technique used in conjunction with flash, that is, using a slow enuf speed so that ambient light was included with the strobe-lighted part of the image.

    Your pic doesn't seem to include flash, so I'm puzzled.

    Did you use flash, and if so, how did you manage this look?

    Or, is there another definition of dragging that I need to drag into my mind?

    tnx.

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    Workshop Member tollie's Avatar
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    Re: Pre Asph Summiluxes

    Hi,

    well I've been caught out.

    Shutter drag does indeed make use of the mix of ambient light and some flash to stop the action...

    ... so I guess I used a slow shutter rather than one that was dragged.

    I think the speed was really slow 1/4 and I had set the camera on the counter... the lens was stopped down perhaps to 5.6 or 8 to get good dof.

    Cheers,

    Todd

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    Re: Pre Asph Summiluxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Cindy Flood View Post
    Charles,
    Congratulations on the new lens. Do you think that you will keep the summarit, too?
    Yes, most definitely I am keeping the Summarit! As Roger has already pointed out - you can never have too many 50's.

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    Re: Pre Asph Summiluxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    I'd be willing to bet you a steak that if you like the way the 28 Cron renders, you're going to love the E46 Pre-asph 50 Lux

    As you probably already know, the Chrome is about 10 times as hard to find as the black, but they are out there. One tip if it has to chrome and nothing else will do, is Leica made a special run of this lens in LTM -- Yes, thread-mount, as a collectible that fizzled. But it's the same optics and usually sells for 1/3 less than a comparable M mount version, just needs an LTM to M adapter. (For posterity in the thread, it was also made in Titanium, Black-Paint and Gray Hammertone!)

    Cheers,
    Well I am one of those who scrounged until finding a mint chrome/silver last version 50 Lux pre-asph and it was well worth the wait. Roger, this is the lens I was using when on our trip to Germany last June/July and I couldn't be happier with the results. I shot a great many shots in many of the towns we visited (drove to???) and in my opinion they all outshone what I might have gotten with the new asph! JMHO and YMMV. I think that Leica had a "formula" if I can call it that which rendered a somewhat dreamy look and yet, when analyzed carefully had much of the center sharpness that made Leica so famous.

    So I now use the old 35 pre-asph, the 50 Elmar collabsible, the 50 pre-asph, the 85 Summarex and the tiny 90 Elmar collapsible and love the images I bring home. These sometimes old and sometimes cheap lenses are just incredible if this is the look you want for your images.

    Of course I also use the (much) sharper 21 asph (should have stuck with the pre-asph for a while longer to see the differences) when I need wides. Great lens but I just didn't give the alternatives a real fighting chance. Guess I just got caught up in the asph sharpness wars and went the way of the crowd. Sorry!!

    24 is a wonderful lens but not for me a needed one and the 28 Chron, as I have said many times on this and other Leica forums (fora?) is my lens cap with an M8. I don't have a single complaint against this lens so that automatically makes it a keeper in my book.

    Lots of stuff to learn and much more stuff to do.

    Hope you guys are having as much fun as me.

    Love you all

    Woody

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