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Thread: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

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    the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    Guy ( since you started the whole thing ) - I tried to find the long thread on the DMR at Fred Miranda and it appears it no longer exists?? I was wondering if it exists anywhere as I am expecting my DMR tomorrow and wanted to do some catching up..

    any pointers or sources would be of great assistance..

    Cheers
    Pete

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    It's a really long story but bottom line it is gone. BUT I'm HERE.

    Ask away we have a lot of DMR shooters that can answer any questions you have
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    Oh that is a piece of history man - what a shame....
    Still you are here and that is good!
    Get ready for some tough questions - mate.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    Here on standby
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    Peter,

    I'm another long-time (from the beginning till now) DMR shooter. Ask away. Glad to help a new member of the club.

    David

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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    Exactly David is a long time shooter of the DMR plus a Leica dealer from Dale labs. We have a vast amount of knowledge on this forum in the Leica camp so any questions you have there are some great folks that can answer them.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Subscriber Member jaapv's Avatar
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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    Unfortunately it cannot even be found in the "wayback" machine
    JAAP
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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    Peter:

    Ask the questions here and there will be plenty of us to answer them.

    Robert

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    Senior Member dhsimmonds's Avatar
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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    Hi Peter

    I have been shooting with an R9/DMR for almost 2 years and have many thousands of images as experience, if I can help as well, I certainly will. I was in Melb. just over a month ago, great city with a wonderful camera museum! It didn't have the DMR in it!!

    I trawled my DMR and kit pretty well all over Oz, it didn't miss one image whether it was in the Outback or on the Great Barrier Reef. In and out of airconditioned vehicles to 37C plus, salt laden atmosphere in Sydney and G.B.R. I didn't have to clean the sensor whilst on tour although I took the sensor cleaning kit, and I have just given the camera and lenses a good old clean up last week including the sensor.

    Have lots of DMR fun!
    Cheers, Dave
    www.simmondsphotography.com

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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    And Peter, as I sold you the DMR you know you can depend on me to answer your questions as best I can. I shot with it constantly for two years and suspect I may regret selling it. Shooting the wonderful R lenses on the 5D sure ain't the same experience.

    Best
    Woody

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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    What a great bunch of fellows - thanks everyone for your offers of support. I have just received my R9/DMR and 35-70 and 70-180 from Woody so I am pretty excited. I have also immediately enrolled in a heavy weightlifting program so i can muscle up in order to use these lenses! LOL

    As people can tell this was a substantial transaction not only in terms of cash but also the logistics of packing and transport. the fact that Woody knew Jack and Gus and Jack new me meant that there was mutual trust on both sides. The fact that Marc Williams invited me here in the first place meant i was able to find a nice group of professional and enthusiast photographers.

    I really think this site is quite special.

    I have been happy to recommend this site to two great photographers who have started posting. And we all enjoy teh balance of gear head and picture posting and relaxed atmosphere.

    Anyway I am sure I will come up with quite a few questions as I start to fill out my 'forever' 35mm system.
    btw - dh ( or anyone else) if you are ever in Australia again - dont hesitate to let me knwo I enjoy catching up with Leica shooters when they visit . i was sorry I missed Jack a few years ago when he was down under.

    Cheers
    Pete

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    Thanks Peter nice compliments all around we have great folks here. Were all on standby for you just let us know if we can help.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    Wow Guy

    Hard to believe that the DMR bible thread started almost two years ago (maybe a little longer?) and people still clamor for it. Sad that you couldn't have "taken it with you and republished here. So much wonderful data, experiences and un-troll like dialogue until the very end. I loved it and through it got to know you, finally meet you in Germany and then be with you on your first workshop. Even at 70 life never ceases to amaze me.

    Go Leica. Build a service organization as good as your cameras and you have a beautiful future

    Best

    Woody

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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    btw - sincere apologies Guy for typing your name incorrectly as Gus above ..
    Last edited by PeterA; 10th December 2007 at 19:48.

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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    Like a lot of folks here I lived through the DMR bible thread right from the beginning. It was an epic thread with a wealth of information. The bad news is that a couple of bad apples towards the end spoiled the bunch. The good news is that we now have this forum which really embodies the spirit of that thread. Helpful, knowledgeable advice delivered in a non-confrontational, non-argumentative spirit... just the right mix for my taste.

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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    Thanks David and Woody i agree David were all here now and that is what Jack and i should have done years ago. Oh well live and learn

    Peter been called much worse and than i have not been called at all

    No worries mate
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    I'm pretty sure I have a mirror of the FM DMR thread somewhere. It would need a bit of massaging to turn into a coherent set of web pages, and I'm not sure if there are any rights complications. Fred Miranda for instance owns the styling of his site. Plus, I'm pretty sure it was originally removed from FM because this was requested...

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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    I think that each page can be extracted and put into a standard text document Jan.. if you have a copy I would be glad to try and sort this out - it wouldn't look anythign like his site when it was finished..

    it would be great to have this as a document - maybe a nice sticky 'attachment' for teh R forum in here?

    Cheers
    Pete

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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    I think that each page can be extracted and put into a standard text document Jan.. if you have a copy I would be glad to try and sort this out - it wouldn't look anythign like his site when it was finished..

    it would be great to have this as a document - maybe a nice sticky 'attachment' for teh R forum in here?

    Cheers
    Pete
    The only copyright notice I could find on FM's site is this one:
    Do not violate copyright laws, or misrepresent someone else's work as your own. You may not use or publish any of the photographs displayed on these pages without express permission from the original photographer. No exceptions.
    So I suppose the trouble is not in the form or shape - after all, that is a preset from the Forum Software, but the images displayed in the thread. I suppose one could approach the owners of those images for permission.
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    I'm the one that pulled it , no one else. The only issue would be images and that part we might be able to get permissions. At least everything I said is fine and probably others on this forum as well. I guess Jack and i could ask our attorney about it. Not sure guys would be nice if it was together in a document at least
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    Guy, as long as you have permission to post the images of the other photographers, there would be no legal problem at all posting it, as the text was already posted in the "Public Domain" with the original, so would still fall under that same category here. Of course, you have my permission as one of the contributors. I likely still have those images also if you want the originals. I think Fred did a clean house on it at one point, and removed all the earlier images anyway. I would remove the moderator comments, and all the PAGE posts & other bug reports

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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Jones View Post
    Guy, as long as you have permission to post the images of the other photographers, there would be no legal problem at all posting it, as the text was already posted in the "Public Domain" with the original, so would still fall under that same category here. Of course, you have my permission as one of the contributors. I likely still have those images also if you want the originals. I think Fred did a clean house on it at one point, and removed all the earlier images anyway. I would remove the moderator comments, and all the PAGE posts & other bug reports

    Maybe we should just do it than along with edits and i can get the permissions from folks
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    I think if you are doing an 'edit' the criticism of camera back and camera and lenses and whatever, should be kept though otherwise responses are meaningless...

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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    No the only thing to edit is those bloody turn page stuff out like Chcuk said. i certainly want to leave it in tack as much as possible no question , good, bad or indifferent.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    Is it worth it? I think it was great at the time, but a lot of it will be irrelevant based on firmware updates, updated raw conversion programs and so on. Then there are the legal issues and just the man-hours it would take to edit the thing. As Guy said, there are probably more DMR shooters here than anywhere else on the web. If there is a question about the DMR, you can be pretty sure someone here will have the answer. After all, you have three people using the DMR as a dupe machine on this forum. Where else do you think you could find three people all using the DMR for that in one place??

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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    I know I'm going to hear it for saying this, but let the bible die. If what you are looking for is the learning curve that chronicles it well. If you are looking for information, I think most of the posters who weren't a PITA are here. Who cares what people were doing on firmware 1.2 or how many of them didn't focus properly?

    That said, there are several people who pulled pdf's of the bible (I think I have some of it somewhere) and if someone were to resurrect it, I give full permission for any image I posted in it to be distributed with the document so long as they are being used for educational purposes.

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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    You guys have good points . I agree not sure how valid a lot of info is at this time with new firmware and even new raw processors. i think everything has been updated since than. You know it's at least a 1.5 years old too. maybe letting it rest in peace is not such a bad idea either, hell we have everyone here.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    I think it served a purpose while it was active (it convinced me to buy a DMR!), but I also think it should rest in peace now. And who really wants to try to decipher Guy's typing all over again !!

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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    Yea that is a bitch all by itself.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    If I remember correctly, about the first half of it was converted to PDF at one time. I believe Carsten has information about this, not sure about that one though.

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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    Gonna join in on this one guys. I sold my 1DsMKII, and after seeing images from the MKIII, I cancelled my order ... soooooo ... the DMR jumps to the forefront for DSLR work.

    Peter, with the new firmware installed, and using Flexcolor to process the DMR/Imacon files, I ran a test at ISO 800 against my Canon 1DMKIII. Both cameras are about the same spec. 10 meg, 1.3X crop factor. Used a Canon 85/1.2 @ f/1.4 and the 80 Lux wide open to shoot some very low light hand held stuff ... no obvious difference in noise levels @ 800, which is something given the 1DMKIII's reputation for high ISO performance. The DMR is much better than it used to be.

    Tip: Use Flexcolor, not Lightroom or ACR. The latest Flex had visibly improved the H3D ISO 800 files, so I thought to use it with the DMR 800 files to see what it could do ... and it was a successful insight.

    I also solved all my focusing issues with the DMR by adding a Bright Screen Leica R magnifier.

    I didn't think this would come up so didn't save the test files in a larger size, but I was surprised how well the DMR tamed fringing compared to the Canon lens on the sample shot of a wedding hat I did just for myself.

    The DMR still holds its own.

    Leica top, Canon bottom
    Last edited by fotografz; 13th April 2008 at 15:04.

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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    Mark,
    Could you provide a link for the Flexcolor software you used in processing that file? This is really encouraging news! I'm wondering if it will provide a noticeable improvement at 400 asa over the Silkypix software I'm using to process my raw files?

    Thanks for your post.

    Lawrence

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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    Lawrence, you may have to register on the www.hasselblad.com site to get it.

    Go to the home page, click on Flexcolor software box and register with your camera's serial number if I recall correctly. The version is 4.8.3. When I shoot tethered to a computer, the Leica DMR is still listed as one of the cameras supported.

    But first try this direct link:

    http://www.hasselbladusa.com/service...-software.aspx

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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    Peter, with the new firmware installed, and using Flexcolor to process the DMR/Imacon files, I ran a test at ISO 800 against my Canon 1DMKIII. Both cameras are about the same spec. 10 meg, 1.3X crop factor. Used a Canon 85/1.2 @ f/1.4 and the 80 Lux wide open to shoot some very low light hand held stuff ... no obvious difference in noise levels @ 800, which is something given the 1DMKIII's reputation for high ISO performance. The DMR is much better than it used to be.
    hey Marc - thanks for the heads up. I downloaded the software the other day but haven't tried shooting at 800 ISO made a few shots of my daughter and her girlfriends as they were going out to dinner at 400 which looked just fine on my screen - will give 800 a try.

    Cheers
    Pete

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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - where is it?

    Thanks Mark
    I have FlexColor 4.6.5 and wasn't overwhelmed by the noise reduction. Then again... I haven't worked with FlexColor since the latest Leica firmware was released. This latest version appears much improved.
    Lawrence

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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    I took the time to process some 800iso shots taken with the new firmware using the Latest Flexcolor. It looks much better than the same files done in Lightroom. These images are from the Vanier Cup and had harsh Stadium lighting at the Rogers Centre (SkyDome). I used 800iso and had a grey card to balance from.





    Here is the same image, Flexcolor first, then Lightroom.




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    Super Duper
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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    hey Marc - thanks for the heads up. I downloaded the software the other day but haven't tried shooting at 800 ISO made a few shots of my daughter and her girlfriends as they were going out to dinner at 400 which looked just fine on my screen - will give 800 a try.

    Cheers
    Pete
    It'll be interesting to see if we can push it even more with the new software and use of the latest version of Flexcolor.

    Sure hope the DMR is supported by Phocus when it arrives. That would be sweet since the work flow is like Lightroom.

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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    hey Marc - thanks for the heads up. I downloaded the software the other day but haven't tried shooting at 800 ISO made a few shots of my daughter and her girlfriends as they were going out to dinner at 400 which looked just fine on my screen - will give 800 a try.

    Cheers
    Pete
    Peter

    I had already loaded the newest firmware into the DMR before sending it to you. All you should need to do what Marc has suggested is the flexcolor software

    Best

    Woody

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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    Woody- I noticed - just I like I noticed the 4 spare batteries and the RRS L bracket and the Brightline eyepiece magnifyer..- much appreciated mate.

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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    Every time I see a crop from a DMR file, I get that much closer to buying one --- it's what I wanted the 1Ds3 file to look like. I hate to though, because it's "old" technology and the R10 is on the horizon, but a horizon that is probably a year or more off... But given what I saw after waiting on the 1Ds3, and R9/DMR is looking like the viable alternative.
    Jack
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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    Hi all.
    Sorry I missed the bible thread.
    I actually found this forum searching for the original thread.
    Without opening a huge can of worms, I would like to hear the details of what the original thread contained.
    I am most curious in the details of what the DMR does better than the Canon cameras and what are the good points of a Canon 1Ds MII compared to the DMR.

    I am well aware of the stupid filter Canon continues to put on their sensors and quite frankly I am sick of it.
    If that is the only difference then I am aware of it. If not please fill me in.

    Thanks in advance for all the replies.

    Steven

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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    Steven:

    To summarize the differences:

    DMR had a more pleasing film like color staight out of the box. The EOS 1Ds MkII could get close but needed a lot of post processing.

    The DMR had about a stop better dynamic range. In use, it could hold detail in highlights better.

    The DMR took Leica glass that was much better than the Canon glass and could also take some of the Leica lenses that would not fit Canon, such as the 15mm f2.8.

    The DMR produced as sharp or sharper images because of the lack of AA filter.

    The DMR images had more fine detail and smoother tones. This gave nicer skin tones and skin that did not have the plastic look.

    The EOS 1Ds MkII was better at high ISO, though with the new firmware, the DMR is probably about the same to 400iso and close at 800iso.

    reidreviews had a side by side comaprison of the two cameras with sample images. It included shooting the same lens on both cameras.

    http://www.reidreviews.com/reidreviews/

    Robert

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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    Here are a couple images I contributed to the original DMR Bible thread. The football images alone convinced a couple people to try the DMR. Not only did the DMR hold the highlights, but you can see the individual threads in the jerseys.




  44. #44
    Subscriber Member jaapv's Avatar
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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Every time I see a crop from a DMR file, I get that much closer to buying one --- it's what I wanted the 1Ds3 file to look like. I hate to though, because it's "old" technology and the R10 is on the horizon, but a horizon that is probably a year or more off... But given what I saw after waiting on the 1Ds3, and R9/DMR is looking like the viable alternative.
    Glad to hear that, Jack. After all, I just sunk what amounts to a hefty sum for an amateur in the thing. Having said that, I am very pleased with the results. Now I am looking into lenses for wildlife. The Noflexar performs well, but is a beast to carry around, so I would like a 105-280 with the1.4x apo. But those are few and far between, and @#$%#$ expensive....
    JAAP
    http://www.jaapvphotography.eu
    The colours of my generation are black and white.

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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    Jaap -- I have been thinking about the 105-280 myself, but I have the 180/2.8 apo and the apo 2x, so I can't really justify it. But if you are interested, you might like to know that KEH has two of them for sale at the moment for pretty good (I would assume) prices...2099 for bargain and 2899 for LN-. Sure, that's a lot of money, but weren't they 6000 bucks or something new? I would go for the bargain one, knowing KEH it is probably in really great shape with only a scratch or two on the barrel.
    As for the DMR, it really does make some lovely files. This is not the greatest portrait ever, but the DMR gives lovely skin tones and rendition. This is with the 180/2.8 APO:

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    Senior Member doug's Avatar
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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by jaapv View Post
    I am looking into lenses for wildlife.
    Have you considered the 400mm f/6.8? It's much lighter and less bulky than the Novoflex, and much less $$$ than the 105-280 Vario.

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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    Here at the ready Peter, a diehard DMR/9 user from day one. 35/1.4, 80/1.4 are the prime 2 lenses I use on it. Eventually will get a 19/2.8 and 70-180/2.8 Zoom once a passel of R lenses sell. But no hurry ... the DMR/9 is my personal camera for "Me" work.

    Here's a tip: Immediately download Hasselblad Flexcolor version 4.8.4 off the Hasselblad site ( remember, it was Imacon that developed the DMR module). Steep learning curve, but blows away everything else. If needed, I can help you get through the basics of Flex. if you aren't already using it.

    Everyone with a DMR should keep their fingers crossed that Hasselblad continues listing the DMR as supported when they launch "PHOCUS" ... the spiffy new RAW engine that has an interface like Lightroom.

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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    Hey Marc - I will definately appreciate some tips on Flexcolour and give it a go..I have my fingers crossed hoping that Phocus - will support the DMR , it would certainly be a very generous gesture on the part of Imacon.

    I have held off moving to hasselblad back - awaiting Phocus and the bottom of the current price discounting/changeover deals available....it seems that phocus has been delayed longer than initially expected?

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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    I have a few questions.

    1) Is there a description of a simple, workable workflow for starting using FlexColor on DMR files
    2) Does the latest FlexColor 4.8.6 support DMR or does one have to go back on an earlier version?
    3) Can the Phocus 1.0 work DMR files? [I found he answer here YES, via FlexColor: http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2058 ]

    I'm asking because I will be getting my DMR in a week and need to learn to use it very fast before a trip. And though I can see Leica DMR in the list of cameras (inactive though) I also tested with a couple of DNG files from a DMR that would not work in Phocus 1.0.

    My intention was to use Phase One (for RAW conversion) and Microsoft Expression Media (as database) but I understand that the FlexColor is the standard for the best DMR results (which I'm kind of happy with because I already use that for my scanner - but I've never used it with a camera).

    Hope someone can throw a little rope my way...
    Last edited by overgaarcom; 4th June 2008 at 13:21. Reason: Learned some new

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    Re: the DMR 'bible' - wher is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by overgaarcom View Post
    1) Is there a description of a simple, workable workflow for starting using FlexColor on DMR files
    What I do is tweak the curves to set the white point and black point, then often warm it up a bit by reducing cyan and bumping up the yellow a bit. The files hardly ever need anything else.

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