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Lenses with that Special Character

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
After finally obtaining a preasph 50 lux , I have become more interested in lenses that have a special character or signature. On film I often looked for those Leica lenses that had the highest color saturation ,contrast and resolution. Almost all of Leica s lens line was designed with the priorities of film. While the asph and apo lenses create amazing color and brilliance they also can render some subject with a harshness..even the out of focus areas look sharp. With digital, new renderings from old lenses seem to be interesting. The noctilux and the pre asph 50 both seem to retain sufficient aberrations to create a different signature. Do you have a favorite "special " lens. :D
 

woodyspedden

New member
After finally obtaining a preasph 50 lux , I have become more interested in lenses that have a special character or signature. On film I often looked for those Leica lenses that had the highest color saturation ,contrast and resolution. Almost all of Leica s lens line was designed with the priorities of film. While the asph and apo lenses create amazing color and brilliance they also can render some subject with a harshness..even the out of focus areas look sharp. With digital, new renderings from old lenses seem to be interesting. The noctilux and the pre asph 50 both seem to retain sufficient aberrations to create a different signature. Do you have a favorite "special " lens. :D
Roger

I finally acquired a 1950's 85 Summarex and love the renderings from it. My M8 is back for shutter replacement so i can't show you images from it but I did take a roll of Tri-X just to try it out. The images were shot on my 1954 Double stroke M3 using the original and still working light meter. Sadly the images were scanned to a CD by the lab using very mundane technology so what the lens is really capable of doing is hard to see here. But you may get some idea of what it is like.

Best

Woody
 

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
Woody Interesting images. Have you tried adding contrast to them? When I watched Jack work on one of his B&W images taken with the pre lux .....the image came to life when he worked the overall contrast and then the midtones. With one of the ASPH lenses ..you don t need to do much ..often you can t because its already pretty strong. With the lower lens contrast ...he could shape the curve to fit the image ...leaving the OF areas softer/smoother while adding contrast and sharpness to the important areas . I think its a combination of how the lens renders with the techniques you use in post processing. I bet that Summarex will make a nice portrait lens when the M8 returns.
 

woodyspedden

New member
Woody Interesting images. Have you tried adding contrast to them? When I watched Jack work on one of his B&W images taken with the pre lux .....the image came to life when he worked the overall contrast and then the midtones. With one of the ASPH lenses ..you don t need to do much ..often you can t because its already pretty strong. With the lower lens contrast ...he could shape the curve to fit the image ...leaving the OF areas softer/smoother while adding contrast and sharpness to the important areas . I think its a combination of how the lens renders with the techniques you use in post processing. I bet that Summarex will make a nice portrait lens when the M8 returns.
Roger
I have basically done little to these images. I need to get out the old Nikon 9000 scanner and do a good job getting a correctly scanned image. At that point I am willing to take the time to do correct PP and really show what this lens is capable of. But I am happy that even these little 6MPx files, scanned by the most cheap method, show a lot to love. I will post again when i have the image properly processed.

By the way, tell Carolyn that I am really impressed with how she grabbed that VLux and started shooting for real. Good stuff..........5000 images already. Man that is powerful

All the best to the best

Woody
 

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
Roger
I have basically done little to these images. I need to get out the old Nikon 9000 scanner and do a good job getting a correctly scanned image. At that point I am willing to take the time to do correct PP and really show what this lens is capable of. But I am happy that even these little 6MPx files, scanned by the most cheap method, show a lot to love. I will post again when i have the image properly processed.

By the way, tell Carolyn that I am really impressed with how she grabbed that VLux and started shooting for real. Good stuff..........5000 images already. Man that is powerful

All the best to the best

Woody
Thats what I expected ...would be interesting in seeing the before and after. The big difference that I am seeing with the older ,lower contrast versions ...is the ability to create good looking images thru post processing . Carolyn really enjoys the computer work ..if you can believe it. She likes making books , turns her slide shows into DVD s with music , has her own website . The big breakthru is that she goes to Apple every week for an hour one on one session...last week she bought Aperature and she is reloading and reworking he Paris images. We are lucky in that we have Apple stores in Atlanta and Jupiter that are less than 3 miles away....so I am off the hook. :D
 
Hello to everyone, I’m new on the forum and this is my first post. I have been reading several posts about the special qualities of the different Leica lenses and how they "draw" a certain way. After studying the various images posted, I think I can start to see what everyone is talking about. But in one post, Jack stated that after about f5.6 all the Leica lenses started to appear or render the same. So my question is that after stopping down two or more f-stops, does that certain look or the way a lens draws start to level out, or is this difference present even at the smaller f-stops?

When discussing the different character of some lenses, it seems the term “draw” if used a lot. After looking at the posts, I can start to see what you are excited about—what a great description. Sharp is what we all start out wanting, but after we achieve it, it seems overrated. The sense or feeling (draw) of the lens becomes more important. So that is what I am asking, is the draw of a lens always present all the way through the f-stops, or do the Leica lenses start to hit a point that they all “draw” the same. I am still too new to tell or just haven’t looked at enough images yet?

Also, a big thank you to everyone that participates on this forum, because of you all I am a very happy Leica M8 owner. I hope to be posting some of my images very soon to share with everyone, after all, isn’t that what this is all about.
 

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
Patrick I can only speak from my experience with the Noctilux. It has a very strong signiture up to 2.8 . Stopping down more, the contrast increases and of course the out of focus areas become less prominent. For this reason I try to use the lens between 1.0 and 2.0 to preserve the Noctilux look. At 5.6 the differences with say a 5o summicron are still there but not as prominent . Roger
 

LCT

Member
...Jack stated that after about f5.6 all the Leica lenses started to appear or render the same. So my question is that after stopping down two or more f-stops, does that certain look or the way a lens draws start to level out, or is this difference present even at the smaller f-stops?...
There is a lot of levelling for sure but some characters like vignetting, resistance to flare or OoF rendition may be more or less different. Here FF and 100% crops from a late pre-aspheric Summilux 50/1.4 (above) and the current aspheric version of the same lens at f/5.6.
Pics taken within the same minute, grey weather, tripod, aperture priority AE, same shutter speed, Epson R-D1, 200 iso.





 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
To easily describe some of this. Like to say some lenses wide open have a certain look to them that when stopped down they will look like other lenses in the same focal length. Lenses like the 50 lux pre asph and asph . Noctilux , 75 summilux , 35mm summilux all when shot wide open have a nice soft look to them but if you stop them down to say F4 and smaller than they will look more like any other lenses in the same focal length like the summicrons in the same focal length. Just a few i picked and there is more but I call these lenses twofers because you essentially are get a 2 for 1 lens in look.
 

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
LCT Thanks for the images. This really shows a big difference in how the OF areas are rendered. The asph has so much microcontrast and edge sharpness that the OF areas look almost sharp. For some photographs this could be helpful...for example something that requires a extensive depth of field. The preasph OF areas are soft,smooth etc creating a nicer separation of the flower from the background. The color renderings are different but I expect that they can be made to look very close in post processing.
 
Thanks for the input, and thank you LCT for the images. It seems that the character of the lens, or as I think of it as ‘smooth sharpness’ has its advantages at the wide open f-stops and that some of the ‘technical sharpness’ of the more modern samples would have certain advantages as we start to go to smaller f-stops since the apparent sharpness is in the lens design. I think I can see where this is heading.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Wanted to keep this post on the front page -- next week I'll post some images from my 73 Hektor :D
 

irakly

New member
To easily describe some of this. Like to say some lenses wide open have a certain look to them that when stopped down they will look like other lenses in the same focal length. Lenses like the 50 lux pre asph and asph . Noctilux , 75 summilux , 35mm summilux all when shot wide open have a nice soft look to them but if you stop them down to say F4 and smaller than they will look more like any other lenses in the same focal length like the summicrons in the same focal length. Just a few i picked and there is more but I call these lenses twofers because you essentially are get a 2 for 1 lens in look.
guy, i have to disagree about 1.4/35. it has a very distinct signature even when stopped down (although there is a noticeable difference between anything wider than 2.8 and the rest). have you seen my last pictures with a dancer and a broken piano? it's f/8
 

LCT

Member
Makes me think of a comparo i did between the CV 35/1.4 SC (above) and a late pre-asph Summilux 35/1.4.
Pics taken within the same minute, no clouds, tripod, f/8, aperture priority AE, same shutter speed, Epson R-D1, FF & 100% crops.



___________________


 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Here is a quick snap of a rose in my backyard, more roses and weathered redwood fence in background. 73 Hektor basically as shot wide open at f1.9:



Here's a slightly different angle of the same rose shown at 100%, as shot with no processing to better show the signature of the lens. Also at f1.9:



Note this lens sharpens up gradually to about f4.5 where it is as sharp as any modern 75mm.
 

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
Jack Your photos really show the special character of the hektor.. no confusing those with the 75 summicron. Would imagine it makes a nice portrait lens. Even smoother than the 75 Lux at 1.4.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Indeed Roger! It is the closest thing I have found to a Cooke Portrait PS 945 large format lens for small cameras. It has some residual spherical aberrations wide open, as does the Cooke, and thus renders almost identically. The charateristic is it generates a sharp image inside a slight soft glow or halo when wide open, the glow disappearing as you stop down to f4, allowing the lens to be very crisp by then. It is however an uncoated optic, so has a bit lower contrast than its contemporaries. I do love the painterly pastel look it provides wide open though, and suspect the lack of coatings contributes to that. A great people lens too, and not nearly as "soft" as the Thambar (a similar vintage 90mm Leica lens designed for portraits) which is so bad on digital as to be virtually unusable on the M8.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
LOLOL! Will do Cam -- just need to find some time to get out and use it more! Give me a few weeks and I'll get some more up. I have fallen for this lens so much, I've decided to sell my 90 since I doubt I'll ever use it again :)
 
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