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Thread: DMR for quick digital copies

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    DMR for quick digital copies

    I've been using the DMR with a Macro 60 for a while now to make quick digital dupes of film. The tonal scale is rather mangled, taking on a sort of gritty, dark look. Effectively I get about 6MP. But it's great for all those 1000s of images where you don't really care; where it's just not worth the effort to use a scanner for top quality.

    This is from RAP100F and E200 Pro (35mm):














    Plus of course tons of personal snapshots of no particular photographic interest whatsoever. Using a small light table, a film holder - a 6x7 holder for my Imacon scanner with a couple of masks cut from sheet film, and a spirit level to level the light table and camera. Here's the setup:


    (That's a Mamiya 6x7 loupe. Yes, it really covers 6x7! )

    The results obviously won't stack up against a proper scan (6x7 E200 Pro):


    But it's great for the gazillions of snaps not really worth scanning!

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    Senior Member EH21's Avatar
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    Re: DMR for quick digital copies

    Jan,
    You are not the only one! I use my DMR with 100 APO macro to make copies of old family photos - many of which are 100 years old. The DMR without AA filter and high DR makes a decent digital facsimile. I'm actually very impressed. I tried this with my Canon 5D which has more pixels but the results are superior with the DMR. When I use a flatbed scanner for the prints, the texture of the paper is recorded which often is undesirable. Copy stand lighting from the sides flattens out the texture so in some prints the DMR is actually better than the scan (at least my scans that is. Probably someone with more scanning savvy could do better).

    btw - nice pics!

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    Re: DMR for quick digital copies

    Same here! I used it with the 100 apo and a 4x5 inch light table when I was in Japan. I was really surprised at how well it works. I don't have a copy stand or anything, just a tripod and a light table. I used the 35/1.4 ASPH to flatten the film (it has a flat front cap) and a 90 hexanon on the other end. It was very makeshift, but it worked. I have not bothered to rescan most of them...
    Some samples:

    It works particularly well for black and white...



    Obviously, it works better with 120 than 35mm, but the first and 3rd of those were 35mm.

    Actually, this is the difference between the DMR and an imacon. On the web it really does not make much of a difference at all:
    DMR:

    Imacon:

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    Re: DMR for quick digital copies

    I am in Iceland and I have left my DMR at home, so I am left with an M8 and a 75 summilux right now to do the same thing. .8m at f/11 is not nearly as good as the 100mm APO! It does not work nearly as well, but it still kind of works...


    My fingers aren't usually that color.


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    Re: DMR for quick digital copies

    Good - I now have two forum members who i can ask questions of regarding my next purchase - an X5.-

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    Re: DMR for quick digital copies

    Don't buy one! The cheaper (ha) imacons are pretty much just as good, just slower. Unless you are running a lab, the 343 is fine, or if you shoot 4x5, the 646. The increase in resolution of 6300 over 3200 dpi for 35mm is not as big as it sounds, and it is only 35mm. Medium and large format resolution is the same for all the imacons. The CCD is cooled in the 848 and 949, but I never felt the need for it. Perhaps if you are in a place that is always hot...or you are doing a ton of scanning in one batch. The 848 and 949 (and X5) are really about speed, not any better quality than say the 646 or 343. And you would be paying 15,000 dollars more for that speed if you were buying retail. The car you could buy would certainly be faster!

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    Re: DMR for quick digital copies

    Thanks for that feedback Stuart - but the earlier model Imacons are no longer available unless I buy second hand from OS - and you know what that will involve in shipping and risk logistics...- hmm so the lower rated X is definitely the one to get then - good that gives me another 10K to spend on glass or put aside for the R10...

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    Re: DMR for quick digital copies

    This is very cool guys --- I am surprised at the quality of image a digital camera dupe produces!
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: DMR for quick digital copies

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    Don't buy one! The cheaper (ha) imacons are pretty much just as good, just slower. Unless you are running a lab, the 343 is fine, or if you shoot 4x5, the 646. The increase in resolution of 6300 over 3200 dpi for 35mm is not as big as it sounds, and it is only 35mm. Medium and large format resolution is the same for all the imacons. The CCD is cooled in the 848 and 949, but I never felt the need for it. Perhaps if you are in a place that is always hot...or you are doing a ton of scanning in one batch. The 848 and 949 (and X5) are really about speed, not any better quality than say the 646 or 343. And you would be paying 15,000 dollars more for that speed if you were buying retail. The car you could buy would certainly be faster!
    FYI, the 949 is not only bullet faster, it produces better, more "enlarger type" scans than the 848 and below due to the newer and improved diffused light source. Don't know if both the new ones employ the same light.

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    Re: DMR for quick digital copies

    Peter, by all means ask other people, but if the X1 is anything like the 646 (it is essentially identical) and the X5 like the 949 (again, almost identical), there is not going to be 10,000 dollars difference between the two unless you are a lab scanning 100 chromes a day. I think if you ask most people who know these scanners, they will tell you the big difference is speed, everything else is minor. I think the X5/949 has a diffusion unit to make the dust spots less apparent, but I have never had a huge problem with the 646. You really do need clean film though, because it will show you every spec at higher resolutions.

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    Re: DMR for quick digital copies

    Cross posted with you there. Can you explain the difference? I never noticed any between the 949 and 646 other than speed and dust spots...is it a 10,000 dollar difference? By the way, I don't mean that to be rude or challenging, but it is a significant point. Is there any difference between the two that cannot be changed with a small amount of tweaking in photoshop or flex color?

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    Re: DMR for quick digital copies

    Stuart - regarding price in Australian dollars I think from quotes it is about $8,000 before 10% GST...I think Marc is correct that the speed difference is quite large and that the diffuser actually ads to the quality of the scan beyond minimising the effects of dust..this is the one item I can purchase as a legitimat busines expense thus saving me a considerable amount of on an after tax basis..as well as being able to legitimately claim depreciation. I will be loking at the differene in detail when I get back from my New Years vacation..

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    Re: DMR for quick digital copies

    Obviously, it's a major decision to get any of these Hasselblad/Imacon scanners. My decision was based on being provided an 848 for over a month to try out.

    When Hasselblad changed the cosmetics and slapped the Hasselblad name on the X models they did a fire sale of remaining Imacons in stock .... which I jumped on since it was $5000. less for the 949.

    Two aspects of scanning that informed my decision was a long term obsession with getting scanned prints to look as close as possible to my analog darkroom prints, and maximizing my time which I am in short supply of. Neither of these criteria is necessarily what other people may be striving for.

    Prior to the Imacon scanners I used a slow MF Minolta Multi Pro, which has something of a cult following because of inventive 3rd party alterations to alter the light source to a diffused one and better approximate the look of a enlarger projected print. The Imacon 949 is/was the only pro level scanner to also employ such a light source and thus provide the look I was after.

    The speed of the 949 (and its current version), is beyond anything out there. It's a revelation to see it work. I can barely prep the next film strip before it's done with the previous one. I use the Flexcolor batch scan feature for multiple frames on a film strip ... then let it work while I prep the next strip.
    I'll eventually get the multi holder so I can scan a whole wedding while doing other work.

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    Re: DMR for quick digital copies

    I'd be extremely interested in the Imacon model differences as well, in terms of quality.

    Stuart, nice to see the XPan still is loved.

    BTW, I also tried color neg (Reala) and it's bad news. I could not get it to look normal no matter what. It was not just a matter of white and black points (removing the orange mask), and inverting. Still lots of funky cross color that I couldn't figure out easily. But it'll convert to B&W nicely.

    And I agree, it works GREAT for B&W!
    It's nice also to be able to put a sleeve of B&W on the light table, and get a contact sheet with the click of a button.

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    Re: DMR for quick digital copies

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Stuart - regarding price in Australian dollars I think from quotes it is about $8,000 before 10% GST...I think Marc is correct that the speed difference is quite large and that the diffuser actually ads to the quality of the scan beyond minimising the effects of dust..this is the one item I can purchase as a legitimat busines expense thus saving me a considerable amount of on an after tax basis..as well as being able to legitimately claim depreciation. I will be loking at the differene in detail when I get back from my New Years vacation..
    Like I said before, by all means ask other people. And certainly try before you buy if you can. In no way do I deny that the 949/X5 is many times faster than the cheaper scanners, nor do I deny that the diffuser will help remove the effects of dust spots, which can suck up valuable work time. I am still a bit dubious about the difference in absolute "quality" that the diffuser makes given what I have seen using the scanners, but that is just me. If the price difference were small, I would say by all means get the X5, but when there is a 6000 dollar difference (the X5 is 18,000 at B&H, the X1 12,000...I thought it was still 10,000 like the 646!), just make sure that your money is buying you a difference you can see.

    As for used, it's your call. I got a demo 646 for 7000 when it was still a current product, so it can doubtless be had for much less these days. For the money you save, even after customs and shipping, you could buy a whole mess of Leica R lenses or whatever else you might want. Marc's idea of a 949 is good as well, because they will be far cheaper now that the x5 is out, while being essentially identical.

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    Re: DMR for quick digital copies

    You can still find a lot of the older models at places like Bitec. They are a reliable company...

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