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Thread: Hasselblad lenses on S2

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    Senior Member atanabe's Avatar
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    Hasselblad lenses on S2

    I recently purchased an used S2 for a good price - well that is a relative term in the Leicasphere. But I do enjoy the handling and performance of the camera as well as the quality of the lens that I have in hand, the 70mm Summarit. Now I currently have a complete Hasselblad system with CFV 16 back and while it produces very nice files, there are limitations. Before I purchased the S2, David Farkas at Dale Photo and Digital informed me that he is custom building an adapter that would allow the mounting of V series lenses onto the S2 body. This really intrigued me as 1, there are very few lenses being made for the S2 and 2, they are far and few between - in tight supply. As I had most of the lenses that Hasselblad made, I made the purchase of the adapter - to give it a try so to speak.

    The history of Hasselblad V lenses are based in the film days, where a little CA (Chromatic Aberration) would not be as noticed as it is now with digital. Most of the designs that Hasselblad/Zeiss had are now 50 years old with minor refreshes to accommodate modern coatings. When Hasselblad developed digital imaging, they set abut the task of adopting software processing to overcome the shortfalls of their lens formulas. By processing the files through Phocus the lens corrections that are pre programmed into the software optimize the final image. The software takes into account aperture, distance and f stop when correcting images. You can toggle the corrections on and off to see the difference. Thankfully, they have a host of old V series lenses in the catalog which do make a difference. Their H series includes several lenses that are made with the understanding that they will not work on their film bodies and have the optical errors corrected with software.

    The test that I started was to see what are the limitations of using older Hasselblad lenses on the new S2. Does a lens costing 10x more equate to final image 10x better? Once the king of MF, Hasselblad has seen a tumble in resale prices of their V system as the rush for pros to buy into 35 DSLRS. There has been a rebound in pricing of late but the lenses still remain a relative bargain. The first set was to compare s scene with a with tonal range including a area that would be prone to fringing (CA) and be static so that a constant focal point could be established and most important to keep the subject the same size. Another type of test would be to have a subject and camera at a fixed distance and just change focal lengths but that will be another day.

    The equipment:
    Hasselblad 501CM with CFV 16 vI 16 megapixel back
    with the following lenses:
    40 CF FLE f4
    50 CF f4
    60 CF f3.5
    80 CB f2.8
    100 CF f3.5
    120 CF f4
    180 CFi f4
    350 CF f5.6

    Leica S2
    70 Summarit f2.5
    Hasselblad V to Leica S2 adapter

    With every scientific experiment you must start with a hypothesis, such as "I attempt to prove that a lens costing the equivalent of two Leica S2 lens hoods can hold it's own against a lens costing 10x that much" or something like that . . . But really, this is a test to show the results of two platforms, using the same optics. I will start with a group photo
    Al Tanabe my website https://www.altanabe.com

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    Senior Member atanabe's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad lenses on S2 - 350 CF

    My first observation was that manually focussing a lens has gotten challenging in my older days, progressive glasses don't help at all. So I am grateful for autofocus. Even with cameras designed for manual focus such is the Hasselblad, I still had to really concentrate and take my time to get an accurate focus. Shooting the test I decided on two apertures, wide open and f8, just to keep it simple. I will start at the long end, 350 then go to the short end 40 and will meet in the middle with a comparison of the 80 CB and 70 Summarit.

    The first two shots are from the 350 CF wide open at f5.6, CA is present even with software correction at f5.6 but improves at f11. This is a 1:1 crop of the image. The left image from the S2 f5.6, the middle CFV f5.6 and far right full frame CFV f8.
    Al Tanabe my website https://www.altanabe.com

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    Senior Member atanabe's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad lenses on S2 -350

    Cropped in a little tighter to show CA on the edge of the helmet better. The 350 was shot at f5.6 and f8. First pair, CFV f5.6 then S2 f5.6, second pair CFV f8, S2 f8. Some clean up of CA was done in Lightroom.
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    Senior Member atanabe's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad lenses on S2 - 40

    Now for the wide, 40 CF FLE earlier version just before the IF version. This one has the extra ring for distance correction. This lens has very nice contrast, with excellent resolving power. From left to right, CFV f4, S2 f4, CFV f8, S2 f8. One observation of shooting the lenses on the native platform, in this case CFV, the software, optical chain and capture nicely integrates to optimize the final image. The 40 really shines at f8 on both imaging platforms. Most copies of this lens can be had in the $1500-$2200 range. Again as this lens is pretty much fully depreciated, selling it after you get a 35 Summarit will net you about the same price when selling it.

    If you are doing landscape, tripod, then manual focus may work for you. My only issue is focusing, maybe a viewfinder magnifier is in order.
    Al Tanabe my website https://www.altanabe.com

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    Senior Member atanabe's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad lenses on S2 - Normal - 70 & 80

    Now to the normal lenses, in this case, Hasselblad 80 CB and Leica 70 Summarit. The 80 was tested on both CFV and S2 platforms and the 70 on the S2. While the 70 Summarit is superior in sharpness, the 80 CB is a close second especially when stopped down to f8. I think that my wide open shot for the 80/S2 combination maybe a bit front focused.

    The 80 CB was the "economy" version of the Hasselblad line, with one fewer element than the CF version of the focal length. With 6 elements in 5 groups, the CB lens still holds up well against both the CF version of this lens and the Leica 70 Summarit.

    From left to right, CFV 80 @f2.8, S2 80 @ f2.8, S2 70 @f2.5, CFV 80 @ f8, S2 80 @ f8, S2 70 @ f8, S2 70 uncropped.
    Al Tanabe my website https://www.altanabe.com

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    Re: Hasselblad lenses on S2

    Al, I want to comment, but should withhold comment for now. I'm having computer issues at the moment and I'm down to just my iPad and an old laptop with crappy screen. Thank you for doing the tests. Based on what I can see on my iPad, the 40mm and 80mm look really good. Thanks to you, I know the 350mm on S2 first hand.

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    Senior Member atanabe's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad lenses on S2

    Mark,
    Looking at the original files, I find that the 70 is better than the 80 with a catch. If the intended output is for publication or web then there really is no difference once you take out the resolution advantage. But if the final output is print, and you have the output side by side, then the 70 is the choice. It is like shooting the M9 with a Zeiss and Leica lens and seeing it displayed side by side, there is a distinct fingerprint.

    However, the cost of the 80 CB is 1/10th the cost of the Leica lens and in fact, most Hasselblad lenses are in the $300 - $1000 range now. I really do like the image quality and the AF the Leica S lenses have but my budget does not allow me to purchase all of the focal lengths that I want or need. I thought about getting the 120 S and after shooting with the Hasselblad 120 changed my mind. The image quality was excellent from the 120 and most macro work will be done in manual focus mode for me anyway - also on a tripod.

    At first I had planned to sell my Hasselblad system and CFV but have reconsidered after this test. The CFV produces great images with the 16 mpx sensor and optimization using Phocus software. Also, given the scarcity and cost of the S lenses, I will wait before making additional purchases and use the Hasselblad lenses.

    -Al
    Al Tanabe my website https://www.altanabe.com

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    Re: Hasselblad lenses on S2

    interesting comparison.
    For me one reason to go to the S2 was to get accurate AF, quick and easy handling.
    To have to go to manual focus, opening for focusing and then stopping down lenses would be just the other way around.
    From what I have seen from CFV backs and Hassy lenses I have no doubt it would generate stunning IQ (and while being happy with the S2 IQ I still feel some images I see from CFV or from Aptus or Sinar with Rollei lenses offer even more depth and richness than the S2).

    What I want to say: if I would not want to spend the money for the S-AF-weather sealed lenses I would see no reason to spend the money for the high priced S2 body.

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    Re: Hasselblad lenses on S2

    Tom,
    I agree with your point about the reasoning to first purchase the S2 and then put different lenses on it. I did this test to see what image quality is sacrificed with other lenses. I purchased the S2 as a replacement for both my 35 DSLR and Hasselblad CFV systems. Since I had most all of the Hasselblad lenses, attempted to see what image trade offs would be had using the Hasselblad lenses.

    For the way that I shoot, a manual focusing, long tele is something that I could live with because it comes out for use maybe once a year. For macro work, it is entirely manual focus for me on a tripod. The 70 is an amazing lens that focuses very close and I could use it for a variety of subjects. I would spend for the 180 S as this is a length that I would get use out of with AF and used often enough to justify the expense. As for the 35 S I will take a wait and see until the rumored 30-90 comes out before I buy. In the meantime, I can use the 40 for the rare times that I shoot that wide.

    Yes, I love the S2 and the weather sealed lenses, just want to use the resources available to me.

    Al
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    Re: Hasselblad lenses on S2

    Al - makes sense to me to spend the high price for the S lenses for those one uses often and to use less expensive lenses with some compromise in handling for the focal lengths not used very often.


    Quote Originally Posted by atanabe View Post
    Tom,
    I agree with your point about the reasoning to first purchase the S2 and then put different lenses on it. I did this test to see what image quality is sacrificed with other lenses. I purchased the S2 as a replacement for both my 35 DSLR and Hasselblad CFV systems. Since I had most all of the Hasselblad lenses, attempted to see what image trade offs would be had using the Hasselblad lenses.

    For the way that I shoot, a manual focusing, long tele is something that I could live with because it comes out for use maybe once a year. For macro work, it is entirely manual focus for me on a tripod. The 70 is an amazing lens that focuses very close and I could use it for a variety of subjects. I would spend for the 180 S as this is a length that I would get use out of with AF and used often enough to justify the expense. As for the 35 S I will take a wait and see until the rumored 30-90 comes out before I buy. In the meantime, I can use the 40 for the rare times that I shoot that wide.

    Yes, I love the S2 and the weather sealed lenses, just want to use the resources available to me.

    Al

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    Senior Member atanabe's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad lenses on S2

    Update on lens comparisons:

    I got to try both the 35 Summarit S and 120 Summarit S today along with the 40 CF FLE and 120 Makro CF. The images are sharper at 1:1 for both Leica lenses over their Zeiss cousins, but not by much. If not for pixel peeping, the difference would not be noticed. The tradeoffs are obvious, manual focus vs AF, auto aperture vs stop down and weather proofing. Specular highlights are round on the Leica vs pentagonal on Zeiss. So buying a non Leica lens for those rarely used focal lengths can prove to be practical and economical. In the end, I will be buying a Leica 180 but holding onto my 120 Makro, the reason being that the 70 shoots very close and the focal difference between the 70 and 120 does not warrant an expenditure at this time. Is the 120 Summarrit S sharper? Yes, it is but for most of the images that I will do the 70 will fit the bill.

    I think that the whole point of this exercise was to ferret out the true tradeoffs when going to a cheaper solutions and if the final image will suffer. Why did I buy an S2? The ergonomics, it is like shooting a 35 DSLR vs the Hasselblad V system or even the H system. The Leica optics are by far the best that I have shot with but I don't feel like I am at a total loss shooting with the V optics.

    Save where you can spend when you have to . . .
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    Re: Hasselblad lenses on S2

    Interesting observations and thanks for your posted shots. This pretty much confirms my own observations - simply put I am looking forward t a telephoto lens for the S2 as well as a 24 - for the price (for now) I canmake do with manual focus using my collection of lenses for Hasselblad. I think the 40 CFE IF I own is particularly suited to the S2 and teh 150mm and 180mm lenses are not shabby either.

    I concur the reason I bought the S2 is because of ergonomics - above anything else - the IQ of the 70mm I have pretty much confirms Leica know how to build a lens. The actual file quality - sans dedicated raw processing - is a bonus I never expected to get - easilly as good as anythign else I shoot with.

    Pete

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    Re: Hasselblad lenses on S2

    Here are some shots taken handheld with the 35 Summarit S and 40 CF FLE on a 1:1 crop of the image. Both were shot wide open, the 35 @f2.5 and the 40 @f4. There is a crispness to the 35 Summarit over the 40 which is no slouch. Availability of the lenses and funds are the only thing keeping me from going all in for S lenses, they are really that good. The true purpose of this was to show that the existing alternatives can be a reasonable alternative to the Leica line of optics. It is not unlike a comparison of M mount lenses from Zeiss and Voightlander vs Leica. All have their own unique qualities, some of the lower priced options can really be stunners and in the end, it is what will you buy.

    On the left is the 35 on the right, the 40.
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    Re: Hasselblad lenses on S2

    Quote Originally Posted by atanabe View Post
    Here are some shots taken handheld with the 35 Summarit S and 40 CF FLE on a 1:1 crop of the image. Both were shot wide open, the 35 @f2.5 and the 40 @f4. There is a crispness to the 35 Summarit over the 40 which is no slouch. Availability of the lenses and funds are the only thing keeping me from going all in for S lenses, they are really that good. The true purpose of this was to show that the existing alternatives can be a reasonable alternative to the Leica line of optics. It is not unlike a comparison of M mount lenses from Zeiss and Voightlander vs Leica. All have their own unique qualities, some of the lower priced options can really be stunners and in the end, it is what will you buy.

    On the left is the 35 on the right, the 40.
    I find quite a difference in micro detail, and this even though the 35 is 1,5 stops wider open.
    The nice thing with the Summarits is you dont have to worry about IQ at any f-stop. Impressive but yes, expensive.

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    Re: Hasselblad lenses on S2

    Al,
    I haven't tested as many lenses but basically came to the same conclusion. Buy the S lenses you will really use and use adapters and alternative lenses to fill in the gaps. I am very fond of the Hassy 110/2 and could have been content without the S 120 macro. I'm a bit reluctant to admit that I bought it just because I found one and know how hard they are to get. I'm also of the opinion that Leica lens prices are going in one direction only (and it's not down) and that there will be little or no financial loss in the unlikely event I decide to part with it.

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    Re: Hasselblad lenses on S2

    Tom, yes the Summarits are impressive wide open and will only get better as you step down. Extreme pixel peeping not withstanding, the overall image was pleasing to the eye for both lenses. David's conclusion was the same as mine, send the $$$ on lenses used most often and fill in the gaps or use "alternatives" when needed. To me this is a pleasant alternative to my wallet as well .

    David, I almost bought the 120 on a whim as the dealer had one available the day I was in the shop.
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    Re: Hasselblad lenses on S2

    The one major thing that I don't like about the two Hassy lenses I've tried on the S2 via adapter is the CA I get when I shoot with them wide open. Since I tend to shoot with a nod to shallower depth of field in bright lights, I've found that I'm much more satisfied with S lenses as they performs so well at all apertures.

    Kurt

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    Re: Hasselblad lenses on S2

    Here is my story: bought a used Hassy 110 because I thought the 120 Leica might be too sharp for some things and didnt know when I would receive it.
    But the adapter was not available at that time.
    Received the 120 faster than I had hoped and now I feel the 120 does much better for portrait than I had hoped even though it is very sharp.
    So now I dodnt know if I shall sell the 110 or buy an adapter.
    David-how often have you used the 110 after getting the 120?
    Anybody who wants to post comparison images? I loved the Rollei 110 on my Hy6.

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    Re: Hasselblad lenses on S2

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    David-how often have you used the 110 after getting the 120?
    Anybody who wants to post comparison images? I loved the Rollei 110 on my Hy6.
    Aside from testing... maybe once I loved the Rollei 110 also...so much so that I had three copies of that lens. Just sold the last one since I no longer have any use for it nor expectation that I will leave the Leica system. The other offerings in the market offer features that are simply not appealing to me. If Leica came out with a 60-80mp camera I think I would pass on it. The only thing I can think of that would tempt me would be Nikon D3S type high iso performance.

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    Re: Hasselblad lenses on S2

    Did some shots with the Hassey 120 of my wife and let me just say that I will not post them online nor show her the images lest I get a bill from the dermatologist, plastic surgeon or aesthetician. The Leica 120 is sharper but I would most likely have to put on a Harrison and Harrison # 6 to start with for any portrait to soften the image.

    Did some still life work today with the Hassey 120 Makro and found one annoying thing is to remember to stop the lens down before shooting.

    As far as the 110 goes, I shot with it on the CFV for a while and found the rendering of the image very pleasing wide open and did not notice any CA to speak of. It does have a unique signature wide open.
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    Senior Member ceh's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad lenses on S2

    Hi all,
    how the lens Hasselblad FE 60-120/4.8 work at one S2?
    Is there anybody who can share their experience with this combination?

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    Re: Hasselblad lenses on S2

    Quote Originally Posted by ceh View Post
    Hi all,
    how the lens Hasselblad FE 60-120/4.8 work at one S2?
    Is there anybody who can share their experience with this combination?
    Are you back into Leica S?

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    Re: Hasselblad lenses on S2

    Hi Tom,
    I am these system with Summarit 70/2.5

    I look for the some cheap alternative for the landscape photography.The lens is interesting for the zoom range.
    David Farkas writes on his web page that it is possible to use FE lenses through the adapter V-S.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

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