It is what it is, as they say. An interesting wrinlkle is, while I'm not in a rush to upgrade from an M8 to an M9, such a move would certainly be more onerous and slower with the Leica shortages and high prices of used lenses ... as I'd probably want to switch out my 28 for a Lux or Cron 35 and my 80 for a used Elmarit 90 ...
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Leica pricing on the used market
- Thread starter leicashot
- Start date
4season
Well-known member
The rapid price increases felt like a bubble to me, so I did some profit-taking by selling off excess gear and used the proceeds to pay off debts and make non-Leica purchases.
I'd agree that the Leica community loses vitality when prices become too exclusive. Not sure that's entirely within Leica's control (gee whatever happened to the middle class in America?). Hopefully the new system due out in 2012 will attract more shooters in the 25-40 range.
I'd agree that the Leica community loses vitality when prices become too exclusive. Not sure that's entirely within Leica's control (gee whatever happened to the middle class in America?). Hopefully the new system due out in 2012 will attract more shooters in the 25-40 range.
leicashot
New member
Leica is very quickly becoming a mainstream brand, and this new system will confirm that move....kind of a shame, but its a business, so...
jonoslack
Active member
Hi Kristian . . . . isn't that rather a contradiction of your first post? (mind you, I think I agree with both posts).
It'll be interesting to see whether it really will. As for profit taking on lenses, it's hard to blame people for taking advantage of the supply and demand issue.
I wouldn't dream of taking advantage of the market by selling newly bought lenses for more money myself . . . Not sure that I think it's unethical in a market economy though . . . . but I have to say, the only reason I could afford to buy a Noctilux was the thought that it was at least a reasonable bet that it would hold it's value, and in a world of crashing prices that's a pretty good reason.
There's buying things for pleasure (like a nice bottle of wine to drink), buying things as an investment (shares :ROTFL
. But there is a middle way, and perhaps a Leica lens represents that middle way. In the end, if Leica is popular, and if they go more towards the mainstream, then more people will get to use it which ought to be good for all of us.
all the best
leicashot
New member
Not exactly a contradiction just a contrast in topics. One is about the fast rise of Leica used M products. The other is about the increasing demand for, and Leica's desire to supply a more mainstream product. It's clear that Leica has survived due to products like the M9, and as the brand becomes more well known, it's important for them to capitalize as they're a business driven by profit, not tradition. The only problem for me is that I'm tired of my camera being so easily recognized on the street, and it's only going to become more of a problem going forward.Hi Kristian . . . . isn't that rather a contradiction of your first post? (mind you, I think I agree with both posts).
It'll be interesting to see whether it really will. As for profit taking on lenses, it's hard to blame people for taking advantage of the supply and demand issue.
I wouldn't dream of taking advantage of the market by selling newly bought lenses for more money myself . . . Not sure that I think it's unethical in a market economy though . . . . but I have to say, the only reason I could afford to buy a Noctilux was the thought that it was at least a reasonable bet that it would hold it's value, and in a world of crashing prices that's a pretty good reason.
There's buying things for pleasure (like a nice bottle of wine to drink), buying things as an investment (shares :ROTFL
In the end, if Leica is popular, and if they go more towards the mainstream, then more people will get to use it which ought to be good for all of us.
all the best
The niche brand is opening it's doors to the world and we need to accept that this move really was inevitable. The Leica brand has always been a brand catering to amateurs, and it's only fitting that this market open up in an economy and marketplace like this. Whatever keeps the brand making the cameras I love is fine by me. Only, expect a continuing increase of the Leica M line, with an M10 retail list of at least $8495. While many may not have the cash to buy these cameras, it's clear that the market, even in such a poor economy is finding ways to afford such an expensive product- and M 4/3rds is the main culprit.
SLR cameras will be the niche in years to come...
ptomsu
Workshop Member
WRT Nocti this is actually very reasonable. Also for other Leica gear, but especially for the Nocti. I bought my 1.0 Nocti new for €2500.- and the price for it now is at least around €5000.- Not all Leica lenses can offer the same but at least they seem to stay at some value.Hi Kristian . . . . isn't that rather a contradiction of your first post? (mind you, I think I agree with both posts).
It'll be interesting to see whether it really will. As for profit taking on lenses, it's hard to blame people for taking advantage of the supply and demand issue.
I wouldn't dream of taking advantage of the market by selling newly bought lenses for more money myself . . . Not sure that I think it's unethical in a market economy though . . . . but I have to say, the only reason I could afford to buy a Noctilux was the thought that it was at least a reasonable bet that it would hold it's value, and in a world of crashing prices that's a pretty good reason.
There's buying things for pleasure (like a nice bottle of wine to drink), buying things as an investment (shares :ROTFL
In the end, if Leica is popular, and if they go more towards the mainstream, then more people will get to use it which ought to be good for all of us.
all the best
Not so with other gear, especially if it comes to MFD. My H3D after some 18 months lost almost 60% of the value I bought it. And same for the Hasselblad lenses. I would not have imagined that.
Might be the reason for me to go back to Leica again
TimothyHyde
Subscriber Member
I suspect the current robust market for all things Leica will ease in the not-too-distant future. I'm not sure whether or not it is a bubble, but it certainly feels a little unstable. Either Leica will catch up with demand, the Chinese market pressure will relax when their economy takes an inevitable dip, the world economy will take another dive, or consumers will begin moving on to the next sexy photo system. In the meantime, those of us who really want a particular lens must be willing to pay a substantial premium (and I'm cheerful about my own recent obscene purchase in that regard) and those who make a rational decision that at a given amount of cash has more value than the lens itself, will continue to supply the market.
pixelshooter
Member
The price is not driven up in all part off the world, here in Denmark leica m lens and camera´s still sells for a reasonbly price compare to other part off the world, I myself just
purchased the leica M9-P with an 28/2 asph for 9050$, I bought it from Jan Grarup, it´s the camera he won in Oskar Barnack competition which make it even more special, so lucky me to own such a great handcrafted pic machine .. By the way my M8 is now for sale
purchased the leica M9-P with an 28/2 asph for 9050$, I bought it from Jan Grarup, it´s the camera he won in Oskar Barnack competition which make it even more special, so lucky me to own such a great handcrafted pic machine .. By the way my M8 is now for sale
4season
Well-known member
How do you figure? Back in the 1990s, one of the pharmacies in my area used to stock M bodies, lenses and binoculars. You could demo the product and take it home the same day. And I think into 2007 or so, $3000 could buy you any new M lens including the Nocti, and you'd have change left over. I think the only $6K+ optic was the modular R telephoto system. In just 4 years, the resale price for a nice f/1 Nocti has more than doubled. At least buyers of the "Last 100" series got a very nice fitted humidor as part of the package.
leicashot
New member
In 2007 a new Noct and M for under $3k? Not sure where you were buying but can I have their info?
The prices of Leica products increasing is not in direct correlation with the brand branching out into the mainstream. The number of Leica dealers in the last few years is increasing quickly, and Leica has added an S2, which beyond what Leica say, is really targeted at high income earning amateurs. Also with a new interchangeable system coming out in competition with M4/3, its really doesn't matter how high prices are rising to. People are finding ways to buy Leica products, even in this poor(er) world economy.
Digitalization has propelled the hobby and art of photography, and this is only the beginning. I see continued price rises for Leica on the used market, which will see a rise in new prices, and demand continuing to outweigh supply.
Me too...and I don't think they will be small increases either.
leicashot
New member
No, the M10 I believe will have significant changes in design, using the M9 Ti as a foundation. The price will be $8500+ IMHO
If the addition of the sapphire screen and change in the top plate in the M9-P resulted in a $1000 increase over the regular M9, I suspect we may be looking at least at $8900 or more for a M10. That's why I believe along with the M10, Leica may offer a lower priced M digital body concurrent with the sale of the M10. The costs have become quite dazzling.
Dave (D&A)
leicashot
New member
Well if Leica cannot keep up with demand (unless they're playing) it would not surprise me if they reposition the product closer to the price of medium format, where it has been traditionally. In the past only a few could justify spending such money on a Leica. Today, its a different story as we all know.
Maybe the M9-P will be the lower priced M camera.....If the M10 is a huge step up, finally equalling it's Canon/Nikon counterparts in MP size, high ISO and weather proofing, then we may see a significant jump to even somewhere between the M9-P price and the M9 Ti price, possibly around $12k. If the sold out 0.95 Noct is any indicator we should all start saving or convince ourselved the M9 is good enough till we win the lottery :bugeyes:
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enenrf
Guest
Just found a latest 50 cron used listing on Ebay. BIN price is $3500. omg
http://cgi.ebay.com/Leica-Summicron...58468013?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item2c5e2b77ad
http://cgi.ebay.com/Leica-Summicron...58468013?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item2c5e2b77ad
As breathtaking as the price is on the 50mm cron you posted the link to...who knows, if things continue to progress the way they have been, that price may seem downright reasonable in a year or so. Tell you an interesting story. Only about 12-14 months ago I purchased a mint (maybe even a 1 time used) silver/chrome 50mm Cron, 6 bit/boxed etc. for $840.00 . I had it a week and since I had other 50mm lenses at the time, I said "what the heck", I don't need another 50mm and its returnable to the store (14 day return policy) and proceeded to get my $840.00 back. Needless to say, it was scooped up by someone else 5 minutes later.
Dave (D&A)
thrice
Active member
Even stores are price-gouging. Listing used products above standard RRP. I don't care what individual people offer their used equipment for though.
http://www.cameramate.com/index.php?cPath=21_23
http://www.cameramate.com/index.php?cPath=21_23
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enenrf
Guest
E
enenrf
Guest
Is this a Leica authorized dealer?
GrahamWelland
Subscriber & Workshop Member
The market is what it is. If no one is buying at these prices then it's inevitable that they'll drop. However, that doesn't appear to be the case because there are plenty of folks who are willing (albeit reluctantly) and able to buy at even inflated prices. Having a camera body with no glass kind of sucks! My last return to the M9 had me buy a few ZM's to get started and then picked up a 50 'cron affordably locally when I could. Both the new and used market was basically a desert at that point.
However, it's a sad day when medium format digital, even with exotic tech camera gear and lenses and superior sensors than the M9, are almost positively "affordable" compared to Leica M gear today.
However, it's a sad day when medium format digital, even with exotic tech camera gear and lenses and superior sensors than the M9, are almost positively "affordable" compared to Leica M gear today.