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Thread: Leica Rumors

  1. #1
    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Leica Rumors

    No I don t mean the website but have you heard any good ones lately.

    I read about the possibility of a 50 summicron asph after the Paris Magnum Event and now I see the website Leicarumors is showing more smoke around it.

    Leica has redone the 18,21,24 elmarits ,the 21/24/35summiluxes and the 50NOCT since the M8 was introduced whats next ?

    The 28/90 summicrons are so exceptional they can only be improved on the margin. Same for the 50lux and 75 cron.

    Maybe the 75 Lux which is what a 30 year old design and discontinued ?

    My first choice would be a 28/1.4 lux . But this has been asked for and always the question about why for one stop ? YES YES

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    Re: Leica Rumors

    Here's a rumor I heard:

    One day sale at 60% off on all Leica lenses scheduled for the beginning of Q2 2012.

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    Senior Member leicashot's Avatar
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    Re: Leica Rumors

    While people talk about a 28mm Lux, the 28mm is not a very popular lens, compared to the other focal ranges, and if sales for the Cron aren't high, I suspect there's no real reason to upgrade it. The Cron is one of the only lenses on the used market that sells for below retail. Most others, except the Summarits sell for above retail.

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    Re: Leica Rumors

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Here's a rumor I heard:

    One day sale at 60% off on all Leica lenses scheduled for the beginning of Q2 2012.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Leica Rumors

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    No I don t mean the website but have you heard any good ones lately.

    . . .
    Leica has redone the 18,21,24 elmarits ,the 21/24/35summiluxes and the 50NOCT since the M8 was introduced whats next ?
    Hopefully they stop designing lenses and actually build some for a while.

    Inventories are bare everywhere (on almost everything), and the prices on ebay are worse than

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Leica Rumors

    Prior to the newer uber expensive 21/24 summiluxes ..the 28/2 was king of the hill . The line up when the m8 was introduced was 21/24 2.8 ,28/2 ,then the 35/2 and 1.4. Its a pretty great lens all around and my favorite FOV for street shooting. But its readily available used and at $3995 list seems expensive . But speed obviously sells as proven by the 21/24 luxes at $6500.

    Right now leica doesnt appear to be shipping much of anything to NA..but i still believe they will introduce a few more M lenses over the next year and certainly by photokina in 2012. None of the Summicrons have been updated 28/35/50/90 only a new 75.

    But i was really fishing for rumors like the 50/2asph .




    Quote Originally Posted by leicashot View Post
    While people talk about a 28mm Lux, the 28mm is not a very popular lens, compared to the other focal ranges, and if sales for the Cron aren't high, I suspect there's no real reason to upgrade it. The Cron is one of the only lenses on the used market that sells for below retail. Most others, except the Summarits sell for above retail.

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    Re: Leica Rumors

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    glad that tickled someone's gizzard. :-)

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    Re: Leica Rumors

    From a marketing perspective, a 50/F2 ASPH does seem like an obvious lens to introduce. There were rumours (last year?) about a version 2 of the 90/F2 ASPH (presumably with FLE) but nothing seems to have come of that.

    Personally, I don't think a 28 Summilux will see the light of day now that Leica have transitioned the digital M over to full frame. It probably would have been a different story had Leica become stuck with a 1.3x crop sensor.

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    Senior Member thrice's Avatar
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    Re: Leica Rumors

    A 28 lux suits those of us that shoot venues, getting the wide perspective and getting close to your subjects while still having sufficient light for backgrounds would be nice
    This sort of stuff:

    I suppose just as easily done with the 21/24 luxes but both so pricey and big!

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    Re: Leica Rumors

    Quote Originally Posted by thrice View Post
    A 28 lux suits those of us that shoot venues, getting the wide perspective and getting close to your subjects while still having sufficient light for backgrounds would be nice
    This sort of stuff:

    I suppose just as easily done with the 21/24 luxes but both so pricey and big!
    A 28 Lux would probably become my favorite lens (if, I could ever get one ).
    Daniel - great photo!

    Cheers, Matt

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Leica Rumors

    Leica has introduced a number of lenses ..that at first look ..you might ask why? The 21/24(3.4/3.) elmarits are slower than the 21/24(2.8) elmarits they replace. The slower elmarits are better corrected and at least 25% cheaper . Both sets are fairly small especially compared to the new summiluxes .

    The reason for an asph summicron 50 is purely bragging rights as it will be a lot more money for a modest improvement in IQ .

    Another way to ask the question...do you think Leica will introduce any more M lenses in 2011..or will it be at Photokina in 2012 ...

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    Re: Leica Rumors

    Leica really need to get their production up first on the basics. My local rep said he could easily fill orders for 250 lenses tomorrow - and we are a much smaller market than say LA, NY, London, etc - but can't even get samples for himself let alone lenses to sell. Very frustrating for everyone. And I refuse to pay over retail price for used ones. The scalping going on with "new" lenses is ridiculous.

    I'm sure a 28 Lux would be $$$$ - as much if not more than a 21/24 Lux.

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Leica Rumors

    No question that the supply shortages are making most of us unhappy . For years it was list price x 85 maybe 90 percent for a mint minus lens. Maybe a little more if it was essentially new and a little less if you had a little mishap. Buying used was very little risk because you could almost always sell with very little friction (loss).

    Leica got a lot of things right by sticking to a goal of creating “the best” at the same time Nikon and Canon seem to move to the mass merchants . But I believe its simply the growth of the asian demand that has stripped the shelves bare .

    Not at all convinced I will ever see the 28/1.4 but it would be my 2nd most used lens along with the 50 1.4 asph . This is simply because the 28FOV fits my street shooting requirements . The PJ I work with all swear by the 28FOV as the center point ...most used . I only mentioned it because it could provide the type of upgrade that the 35 1.4 asph had when they went to the FLE version. Thats a wish .

    The only rumors I have heard in order were (1)21/3.4 proved true (2)50/2asph looks promising (3)90/2 FLE (4) 75/1.4 asph (wow would that one be expensive) .

    I also heard they recalled the first batch of 21/3.4asph to Solms ? heard that one?

    The correct answer from a logistics standpoint is what lens is leica going to stop making ....but that would not be any fun?

    Roger

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    Senior Member leicashot's Avatar
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    Re: Leica Rumors

    Quote Originally Posted by thrice View Post
    A 28 lux suits those of us that shoot venues, getting the wide perspective and getting close to your subjects while still having sufficient light for backgrounds would be nice
    This sort of stuff:

    I suppose just as easily done with the 21/24 luxes but both so pricey and big!
    But you could have shot that at 5.6-8 with perfect results when shooting rear sync. f/1.4 isn;t required and focusing/dof could be an issue.

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Leica Rumors

    Quote Originally Posted by leicashot View Post
    But you could have shot that at 5.6-8 with perfect results when shooting rear sync. f/1.4 isn;t required and focusing/dof could be an issue.
    How so ..when shooting rear synch using f5.6 f8 wouldn t you have a 1/2 or 1/4 shutter speed ? This would turn the background motion blur into mush . Or did I misunderstand something. (I always found using rear synch with shutter speeds under 1/60 pretty iffy when doing weddings ) .

    No question DOF is always an issue ...can you compose with such a limited DOF ?

  16. #16
    Senior Member thrice's Avatar
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    Re: Leica Rumors

    This is a 1s exposure to compensate for shooting it at f/4.0 and wanting to balance the ambient light with the flash.
    I would just like to have the flexibility for some isolation in shots. Also to have the option of shooting a few with available light instead of having to rely fill flash.
    leicashot; thanks for telling me how I could have shot it, I am so new to photography all these settings and dials are so confusing...

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    Re: Leica Rumors

    Quote Originally Posted by thrice View Post
    leicashot; thanks for telling me how I could have shot it, I am so new to photography all these settings and dials are so confusing...
    Heh. Do I sense a slight hint of sarcasm here?

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    Senior Member thrice's Avatar
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    Re: Leica Rumors

    I must admit I've never heard of rear sync, I used first curtain so that I would know if I got the shot when I saw the flash in the viewfinder, then I can manipulate the camera while the shutter is open to get the ambient light to streak as I want. From what google tells me 'rear sync' is second curtain, and alas pretty useless to me in this sort of situation and my style of shooting. I'm sure it works for leicashot when he shoots in clubs to get this sort of look but unfortunately I haven't the skill to anticipate what the subject will do for the 1s or so after I hit the shutter release.

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    Senior Member leicashot's Avatar
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    Re: Leica Rumors

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    How so ..when shooting rear synch using f5.6 f8 wouldn t you have a 1/2 or 1/4 shutter speed ? This would turn the background motion blur into mush . Or did I misunderstand something. (I always found using rear synch with shutter speeds under 1/60 pretty iffy when doing weddings ) .

    No question DOF is always an issue ...can you compose with such a limited DOF ?
    it's ok, I'm often wrong.

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    Senior Member leicashot's Avatar
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    Re: Leica Rumors

    Quote Originally Posted by thrice View Post
    I must admit I've never heard of rear sync, I used first curtain so that I would know if I got the shot when I saw the flash in the viewfinder, then I can manipulate the camera while the shutter is open to get the ambient light to streak as I want. From what google tells me 'rear sync' is second curtain, and alas pretty useless to me in this sort of situation and my style of shooting. I'm sure it works for leicashot when he shoots in clubs to get this sort of look but unfortunately I haven't the skill to anticipate what the subject will do for the 1s or so after I hit the shutter release.
    You never know if you don't try

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    Senior Member thrice's Avatar
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    Re: Leica Rumors

    You're right! So many new things I have to discover! Having only ever tried the one flash setting...

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    Re: Leica Rumors

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    Prior to the newer uber expensive 21/24 summiluxes ..the 28/2 was king of the hill . The line up when the m8 was introduced was 21/24 2.8 ,28/2 ,then the 35/2 and 1.4. Its a pretty great lens all around and my favorite FOV for street shooting. But its readily available used and at $3995 list seems expensive . But speed obviously sells as proven by the 21/24 luxes at $6500.

    Right now leica doesnt appear to be shipping much of anything to NA..but i still believe they will introduce a few more M lenses over the next year and certainly by photokina in 2012. None of the Summicrons have been updated 28/35/50/90 only a new 75.

    But i was really fishing for rumors like the 50/2asph .
    Agree I think the 28 is still the king of the hill. Would not buy another M without it. Don't overlook this lens. Not many have this look to it
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Leica Rumors

    Rear sync is useless when photographing people and using a long shutter speed as one can't capture the moment but rather the one a second or two later when the subject has turned away/moved on. I made a career out of flash and ambient light blur and it was always first curtain (and a super fancy Vivitar 285!).

  24. #24
    Senior Member thrice's Avatar
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    Re: Leica Rumors

    Charles, I used an $8 holga flash and have recently ordered the upgraded $15 model *high roller*.

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    Re: Leica Rumors

    Daniel, love you "money is no object" approach to equipment, in order to get the shot.

    Speaking of shots, love the ambiance and mood of the one you posted above...nice!

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Leica Rumors

    Thanks Dave
    The new one is RED so I expect faster sync.

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    Senior Member thrice's Avatar
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    Re: Leica Rumors

    I heard a rumour Leica is releasing a new ASPH version of the 33mm Stemar with f/2.8 lenses and a new beam splitter

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    Senior Member leicashot's Avatar
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    Re: Leica Rumors

    Quote Originally Posted by charlesphoto View Post
    Rear sync is useless when photographing people and using a long shutter speed as one can't capture the moment but rather the one a second or two later when the subject has turned away/moved on. I made a career out of flash and ambient light blur and it was always first curtain (and a super fancy Vivitar 285!).
    With high ISO ability, you no longer need to shoot a 1 or 2 second exposure. Rear sync works fine at 1/4sec or faster and can achieve great results. I know cause I make my living doing such now. At the end of the day, we do what we're comfortable with. Having more than one way to achieve a result is one of the exciting things about photography.

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    Re: Leica Rumors

    Quote Originally Posted by leicashot View Post
    But you could have shot that at 5.6-8 with perfect results when shooting rear sync. f/1.4 isn;t required and focusing/dof could be an issue.
    ...or with a nikon d7000. i assume the subjects are not so discerning---))).
    peter

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    Re: Leica Rumors

    Excellent shot Dan. I actually like it as a low light lens since you can easily hand hold it at 1/20 and it's so sharp that it doesn't go fuzzy at high ISO as much as most lenses do. It may be a bit wide on an M9 but it's good on an M8.

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    Re: Leica Rumors

    Quote Originally Posted by zombii View Post
    hand hold it at 1/20
    I handhold my 50's at that speed I handhold the 18mm at 1s! eg:


    Anyway, anyone hear the 14mm lens rumour? Since you can trick the camera into recognising a "14mm f/3.8" lens by manually coding a lens with 110011 and switching to the 35/135 framelines. Go ahead, try it

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Leica Rumors

    I had heard the rumor about a 14mm/3.8 . What I have picked up 21/3.4 (announced),50/2 asph , 90/2 apsh fle and 14/3.8 asph .

    Unfortunately the fragile Leica supply chain now seems compromised by the problems in Japan ..delays on the M9P and 21/3.4asph announced .

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    Re: Leica Rumors

    Leica lenses were secretly made in a small factory in Sendai that was hard hit by the tsunami. The factory at Solms is just for tourists to keep the faith.

    With the halt in production, not cancellation, of the MP due to a critical part seems to be linked with the shortage of M lenses and the tsunami in Japan. Glass is supplied by manufacturers in Japan in pressed form for finishing in Solms. Filters come from Japan and repacked in Solms - saw that in 2007 with the UV/IR filters. So it would stand to reason that the components that make up the lenses and cameras may also be sourced to suppliers in Japan. It is coincidence that the drying up of lenses coincided with the tsunami in Japan. Leica outsources the lens mount, learned that when the six bit coding came into being and they could not get enough of them from their supplier.

    So the whole shortage of lenses may just be related to the inability to get a critical part to assemble the lens. Once the supply chain is reestablished the lenses will once again be available.

    As far as shortages of certain lenses such as the 0.95 Noct, I think has more to do with production planning than capacity to produce. When the sales group estimates how many lenses that they will sell, a commitment to the suppliers of glass to make xx quantity of the blanks. The supplier will then melt and form the blanks ship them to Solms. If the projection estimate of the sales group was under, then they will have a shortage of lens blanks to assemble and fill all of the orders. I think that Leica was surprised that so many people would want a $11,000 lens. With the number of orders coming in, they did not have enough raw glass blanks and now need to wait until their supplier can produce the blanks for them. For the masses, the Summarit line had a good supply until late, probably due to the fact that it was an inexpensive lens and they felt more people would buy them at the price point. So they had more than enough parts on hand there to produce them.

    So what ever critical part is missing for the lenses, once they get the parts the assembly will go at full production reducing the backlog. If it is the raw lens blanks then it will take a while to get going, if it is just the metal pieces a lot less time to get the supply out.

    Like a kidney stone, all things must pass
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  34. #34
    Subscriber Member weinschela's Avatar
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    Re: Leica Rumors

    When I was in the Army, we had a saying that "all good rumors are false and all bad rumors are true". Using this rule, one is never disappointed.
    Alan

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    Re: Leica Rumors

    Quote Originally Posted by atanabe View Post
    Leica lenses were secretly made in a small factory in Sendai that was hard hit by the tsunami. The factory at Solms is just for tourists to keep the faith.

    With the halt in production, not cancellation, of the MP due to a critical part seems to be linked with the shortage of M lenses and the tsunami in Japan. Glass is supplied by manufacturers in Japan in pressed form for finishing in Solms. Filters come from Japan and repacked in Solms - saw that in 2007 with the UV/IR filters. So it would stand to reason that the components that make up the lenses and cameras may also be sourced to suppliers in Japan. It is coincidence that the drying up of lenses coincided with the tsunami in Japan. Leica outsources the lens mount, learned that when the six bit coding came into being and they could not get enough of them from their supplier.

    So the whole shortage of lenses may just be related to the inability to get a critical part to assemble the lens. Once the supply chain is reestablished the lenses will once again be available.

    As far as shortages of certain lenses such as the 0.95 Noct, I think has more to do with production planning than capacity to produce. When the sales group estimates how many lenses that they will sell, a commitment to the suppliers of glass to make xx quantity of the blanks. The supplier will then melt and form the blanks ship them to Solms. If the projection estimate of the sales group was under, then they will have a shortage of lens blanks to assemble and fill all of the orders. I think that Leica was surprised that so many people would want a $11,000 lens. With the number of orders coming in, they did not have enough raw glass blanks and now need to wait until their supplier can produce the blanks for them. For the masses, the Summarit line had a good supply until late, probably due to the fact that it was an inexpensive lens and they felt more people would buy them at the price point. So they had more than enough parts on hand there to produce them.

    So what ever critical part is missing for the lenses, once they get the parts the assembly will go at full production reducing the backlog. If it is the raw lens blanks then it will take a while to get going, if it is just the metal pieces a lot less time to get the supply out.

    Like a kidney stone, all things must pass
    Al,

    Good points.

    The special glass used in the Noctilux is actually ordered two years ahead of delivery time. Keep in mind that some of this glass has to be cooled for 6-9 months in a cooling oven. If the temperature is brought down more than a few degrees per hour, cracks and inclusions might form, ruining the glass. This is a major reason for the high cost. Think about the electricity required to run an oven nonstop for months at thousands of degrees.

    Leica sources its glass (over 200 different formulations used in current lenses) from three main suppliers: Corning, Schott and Hoya. Hoya is in Japan, but from what I hear, wasn't impacted much from the Tsunami/earthquake.

    With production estimates done years in advance, Leica can't just get more glass when demand spikes. Balancing suppliers and all the different glass orders (different formulations, various sized blanks) can be challenging. If a lens like the 50 Lux ASPH has 8 elements and one particular glass element is back-ordered from the supplier, the lens can't be made.

    Also good to keep in mind is that the shortage is mostly on the consumer side. Leica is turning out record quarter after record quarter. They can only be doing this by manufacturing and shipping more product than before. So, the product is out there. The demand is just so much greater than it has ever been. Items are never in stock and people are waiting longer than ever to receive them.

    The new factory is currently under construction at Leitz Park and should open by the end of 2012 or beginning of 2013. I'd assume that by now Leica has increased its forecasting for lens elements and other supporting parts, so that when the factory opens its doors production numbers will increase dramatically.

    David
    David Farkas
    Leica Store Miami

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    Re: Leica Rumors

    Of course, it makes sense for Leica to change and improve lenses. What's funny, though, is that I think Leica could sell a heck of a lot of Elmarit 90s if they'd simply restart production on that ended line. Great lens, better size and ergonomics than the AA and better rendering than the Summarit IMO. (That said, with such low stock in new lenses, it seems Leica will be able to sell whatever it produces.)

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    Workshop Member Woody Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: Leica Rumors

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Agree I think the 28 is still the king of the hill. Would not buy another M without it. Don't overlook this lens. Not many have this look to it
    Amen!

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