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Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

Godfrey

Well-known member
Japan Exposures has decided to send the lens to Mr Miyazaki to inspect and hopefully fix the lens, which is fine by me. Hopefully the issue will be resolved. Thanks for everyone's opinion, and I'll post an update when I receive the lens back from repair.
I'm happy to hear that Dirk is working with you. I've dealt with him and Japan Exposures on a couple of transactions, they've been a good vendor to work with for me so far.

(My impression of the lens from the JE write up remains that it is somewhat Lomo like, not a plastic lens like a Holga but a high quality lens of a simple design with a unique imaging signature, albeit one that is built to higher quality standards than the Lomo. It sure is an interesting lens, looking at the photos of it. I'd love to see some photos made with one.)
 

JimCollum

Member
I'm happy to hear that Dirk is working with you. I've dealt with him and Japan Exposures on a couple of transactions, they've been a good vendor to work with for me so far.

(My impression of the lens from the JE write up remains that it is somewhat Lomo like, not a plastic lens like a Holga but a high quality lens of a simple design with a unique imaging signature, albeit one that is built to higher quality standards than the Lomo. It sure is an interesting lens, looking at the photos of it. I'd love to see some photos made with one.)
i have some albums over at the rangefinder forum

M8 w perar
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=8820

M6/film w perar
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=8819&ppuser=12851
 

ZoranC

New member
I am not an expert on lens design nor am I expert on Cooke to know how "all the characteristics of a Cooke" relates to topic at hand but allow me to use some layman's common sense here:

The truth of the matter is that we don't know how the lens resolves the corners of the image because we can't see the corners of the image, these photo's are cropped from the centre of the image.

... mounting it onto a camera that crops the image I say its hard to tell by how much the lens is faulty, if at all.
My logic tells me decentered lens is a decentered lens is a decentered lens and if you can see it on APS-C you will also see it on FF and anything in between so your statement makes no sense to me.

Also, seller himself confirmed lens _is_ decentered which leaves even bigger question mark in my mind over your post.

As for cross posting to so many forums, when you get plenty of replies wherever you post, I see that as simply a way to try and brow beat Dirk into giving you your money back after you realised you bought the wrong lens for you. Its the tactic of a mardy person, not somebody searching for expert opinion.
This is where I feel you are wronging Douglas by jumping to huge assumption. I happen to know him, very little true, but he has always left me with impression of guy that does things with no wrong intentions and goes more out of his way than others do to assure he has done people right and hasn't wronged them.

I myself would cross post on number of forums if lens, or anything else, in question is rare enough, just as does everybody that is researching rare topic. There is nothing inappropriate about Douglas' actions while there is enough about yours but I won't go there, mod has already spoken on that.
 

douglasf13

New member
FWIW, as I mentioned, I've been dealing with this issue since February, and, although I'm probably one of the more active camera forum posters on all of the internet, I've waited until now to post these questions in various forums where I've established a rapport with forum goers*. It isn't as if I signed up for forums to ask these questions. One forum had particularly helpful and valid responses to my issue, and that was the only one that I directed Dirk to. In fact, most of the responses that I've received have been both technically helpful and instructive. Within these multiple threads, only one poster has been particularly unhelpful, and we can imagine who that may be...

If it makes more sense, since I'm using a NEX camera, I'll now refer to my issue as being a major symmetry issue in the edges of Zone B, rather than saying lens "corners." Granted, Dirk tested the lens on his M9 and claims there to be a corner issue, as well.

p.s. nice shots, Jim. From what I can tell, my Perar performance does not seem to be inline with yours on the M8.

*the Leica M9 forum is the only forum that I don't participate in daily, but, since I wanted to talk to other users of the lens, I figured it was a good place to ask.
 

thrice

Active member
Terry I'm sorry but I did not see Steve's post as a personal attack at all from my perspective. He described the limitations of the testing procedures, linked to useful information on the lens design, offered his opinion on the company in question and noted (what I also found unusual) that Douglas felt the need to post the same thread on numerous forums without waiting for replies on any particular avenue. It does *seem* a little attacking on his part since he seems to not be getting the result he wants from Japan Exposures. I think Steve is capable of much more abrasive posts (sorry mate) and maybe exercised more than usual levels of restraint :p Uh oh, did I just personally attack Steve?

FWIW my dealings with Dirk and Mr Miyazaki have been phenomenal from a customer service perspective.
 

Terry

New member
Here is my opinion on this. Japan Exposures was not even mentioned until 12 posts into this thread after it was said by posters that it was decentered and that he said he has been working on the issue for months.

This is the section that I am referring to. It basically contradicts itself at the same time. Basically complaining about Douglas and at the same time saying that the lens literature doesn't lead one to believe that this is normal for the lens.

Japan Exposures are a good company, and I'm sure do follow the time honoured business model of 'the customer is always right', so I see no intrinsic value in the terms of them agreeing with you, they will agree with you whatever the problem is. As for cross posting to so many forums, when you get plenty of replies wherever you post, I see that as simply a way to try and brow beat Dirk into giving you your money back after you realised you bought the wrong lens for you. Its the tactic of a mardy person, not somebody searching for expert opinion.

Here is a link to the Perar web page that describes it in detail, showing that it is not a toy lens, or like a Holga, and that it is intended as a serious compact lens to make a pocketable M body combination, even if one copy of it turns out to be faulty.

http://www.japanexposures.com/2011/05/25/ms-optical-super-triplet-perar-3-535-mark-ii/

Steve
 

BANKER1

Member
Daniel,

Love your work. You are a very talented photographer. But it is in black and white that Steve called him a "mardy person" (whatever that means), and said he was trying to "browbeat Dirk". Sorry, but Steve cannot know what is in Douglas' mind. If that was Steve's opinion he should have stated it that way, but I do not know that would make it any less spurious a remark. I'm with Terry and Zoran on this one.

Greg
 

BANKER1

Member
Curiosity got the best of me. Below is the definition of mardy. If that is not a personal attack, I don't what is.

Greg Keeton

Sulky or whining; Non-co-operative, bad tempered or terse in communication.
 

douglasf13

New member
I should probably just let this thread die off at this point, but I feel like I need to explain my scenario clearly, now that my intentions are being questioned, and I also don't want anyone to think that Dirk at Japan Exposures hasn't been open to helping me.

In Feb '11 I mentioned the optical issue to Dirk, and he politely told me to send the lens back to him so he could check it out. FWIW, there were a few other things that I had them check, like the focus post not screwing in correctly. He had the maker check the lens, and he also checked the lens with his M9, and neither of them could find any issue with the lens. So, Dirk sent the lens back to me, and I didn't argue. "Maybe I'm crazy?" At this point, I did PM one or two people about my issue to ask their opinion, but that was it.

I was undergoing both a residence and business move at the time, so I had to wait few months before I re-tested the lens. When I re-tested the lens in Aug., the exact same issues were more than apparent, and, in fact, it turns out the focusing pin on the lens had become stripped, and Dirk graciously offered to replace it with the newer version focusing pin that they're using in the newer models of the lens. So, I resent the lens to get the pin replaced and have the optics re-checked.

Now, for whatever reason, Dirk confirms the optics issues on his camera, but claims that is par for the course with these Perars, which seems outrageous to me, since we're talking not about corner softness, but de-centering. All that I ever asked for was either a fix, a new copy from the next batch of lenses (despite mine from the initial run being possibly more "valuable,") or a refund of my original purchase price (and I didn't ask for reimbursement for the two times I've shipped the lens back to Japan.) All that I was offered was either $500, or, he would sell the lens for me, but I didn't feel comfortable selling a lens that had such issues.

Since Dirk stated that this issue was normal for this lens, I decided to start a bunch of threads about it, so that way I could reach some of the very small user base of the Perar. Overall, the responses have been helpful. I PM'd a total of three people, thrice included, to look at these threads, because he is an expert M9 user (despite the fact we usually disagree. lol,) and I value his opinion on the matter (although I stupidly forgot that he'd already responded.)

Of course, it was only after sending Dirk a link to one of these threads that he changed course and offered to have the maker look at the lens again, so I certainly did get a boost from that thread, intended or not. Honestly, I just wanted Dirk to see the responses from various photographers, because the responses that I was getting from him weren't all that logical to me by that point, and I had run out of ways to explain myself, so I thought third party opinions would help. Considering this is something that should have been easily resolved in March, I feel okay with the outcome, so far, but, if some on this thread consider me to be bad person for doing such a thing, so be it. I will say that, assuming this now gets resolved, I plan on still frequenting the Japan Exposures store. This isn't some kind of hatchet job.
 
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250swb

Member
I apologise for calling you mardy Douglas. Please accept it.

I know why I said it, and shouldn't have, and it was because a perfectly good lens was getting a hatchet job done on it, and although started by you it was being perpetuated by supposedly knowledgeable members of the forum on a heresay basis. Holga and Lomo were mentioned, clearly ludicrous comparisons, but not disabused until I had a go at doing that.

I would guess that you and I are the only two people with this lens on DPI, I use it on an M9 and see the whole picture (literally, full frame) and see no comparison with a Lomo lens (not that you made that link). The true quality is pretty much equal to a Leica 5cm f3.5 Elmar, yet with the unique feature of being 35mm and collapsible. A 5cm Elmar is also soft wide open, especially around the edges, and unless I am mistaken not many people would compare one of those with a Lomo or Holga lens.

Steve
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
... A 5cm Elmar is also soft wide open, especially around the edges, and unless I am mistaken not many people would compare one of those with a Lomo or Holga lens.
Perhaps I'm one of the few.

My first Leicas were a Iic and IIf, one came with an Elmar 5cm f/3.5 the other with an Elmar 3.5cm f/3.5 when I got them. Both were, to quote the Olden Camera salesman who sold them to me in 1969 (both for $99), "old junk - nobody wants this stuff anymore." I used them off and on until 1985.

One of the lenses was uncoated but I don't recall which it was at this point. Many years later, I briefly had a Lomo in the 1990s. To my eye, results from the Lomo lens compared quite similarly to the results with the old Elmars. :)
 

woodmancy

Subscriber Member
I also have had this lens for a while now and I'm happy with it.

It represents an honest effort to follow the design concepts of the Cooke triplet and Tessar designs with modern materials and designs - the Cooke was designed 118 years ago.

You can't really put it into the same category as a machine stamped plastic Lomo lens, as it consists of carefully hand assembled and tested modern glass elements and coatings. It is a lovely thing to behold (and use) I rate its performance similar to my 1939 vintage Leica Summar 50mm which I love dearly.

I think Douglas may be rating it against a standard that is really not in line with its design intent. I don't think it is at all inappropriate for him to sell the lens on Ebay, stating that it doesn't come up to the high standards that he anticipated. He may have to discount it a bit, bearing in mind the publicity, but I think a photographer with my inclinations or a collector would buy it.

I don't think that Japan Exposures have misrepresented this lens in any of their descriptive material. It is what it is, a faithful attempt to use historic design philosophy to make a lens with modern materials and know how. The lens truly has a distinct personality with very bold color.

Keith
 

douglasf13

New member
Yes, I am disappointed that the lens didn't work out, as I did like the color and vibe. Unsharp corners are one thing, but radically different corner sharpness kills it for me, especially on aps-c. My guess is that the problem wasn't the lens elements themselves, but, rather, the extension mechanism on my copy of the lens, but who knows?

Dirk has received the lens back from the maker, who attempted to shim it, and, while it appears that it is improved a little, he has informed me that corner unevenness is still there, and he has given me a full refund for the lens, so I am satisfied with the outcome.

p.s. For those that care, I certainly mentioned Japan Exposures right away, just as I would do with any other camera company issue on these forums. Considering that they are the only distributor of this lens, it wouldn't have been difficult to deduce, either way. Dirk did the right thing in the end, and I will still shop at his store...although I'm sure he'd probably not want to hear from me ever again. :ROTFL: I still want want of those darn Contax G converted to M lenses. :thumbup:
 
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