Site Sponsors
Results 1 to 39 of 39

Thread: Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

  1. #1
    Senior Member douglasf13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles, California, USA
    Posts
    1,965
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

    Hi. I have been battling with my little MS Optical Perar for the last 7 months, and I'd love to hear your insight on my situation, even if you don't own the lens.

    Last February, after owning the lens for a month or two, I began noticing that my Perar's corner resolution was incredibly asymmetric. While I didn't expect the corners of this tiny lens to be world-beating, I am using it on an aps-c NEX camera, so I'd expect the corners to be reasonable. Regardless, it isn't the lack of corner resolution that I'm concerned about. It is the unevenness of the corner resolution. In using a liveview camera, I'm obviously able to accurately focus into each corner with high magnification, and I've been stunned at how much sharper one corner is compared to the others. It seems like this lens has heavy decentering. If I extend the collapsable lens barrel upside down, with the aperture markings facing downward, the sharp corner moves with it, and I've tried multiple adapters, so I've ruled out that it is an issue with my setup.

    So, I sent the camera back to Dirk at Japan Exposures, so that he could take a look, as I'm apparently the first Perar user to complain of this. Dirk inspected the lens, tested it on his M9, and he found nothing wrong with it. The horrible Japan earthquakes ended up happening during this time, so Dirk sent the lens back to me while he could, and, while I was skeptical of his tests, I was in the middle of a house and business move, so I left the lens in the box, and I didn't retest again until Aug. Well, the same issues were very apparent to me, so I sent the lens back to Dirk for a second time for him to test.

    This is where things get interesting. Now, Dirk claims that not only does he see my lens issues on his M9, but his copy of the Perar apparently does this as well! So, now I'm being told this lens isn't designed for very sharp corners, and this could be a product of field curvature, and it isn't a modern aspherical design, and I should try not to shoot things perpendicularly, etc. Huh? As I mentioned before, I didn't expect ZM 35/2.8 corners at f5.6 or anything, but the resolution asymmetry is hard for me to ignore. While I know that I could probably just sell the lens on ebay, and maybe even make a profit, I feel strange listing a lens that I believe has a major issue, despite it being ok'd twice by the retailer.

    All that I really want at this point, despite spending over $100 to ship it back to Japan twice, is a refund of my original purchase price, but Dirk refuses to oblige my request. Do you think I'm out of line here? If you're a Perar owner, have you noticed the same issues? Even if you're not a Perar owner, have you ever heard of asymmetric corners being part of a design? Even on an aps-c camera?

    Below are a few samples to give an idea of what I'm talking about. This was on a tripod shot at f5.6, and I liveview focused into each corner. This certainly isn't a perfect, technical test, but I can reproduce it over and over again, and have more examples that jive with this.

    p.s. I apologize for cross-posting this on a bunch of forums, but there aren't a lot of Perar owners, so it's tough locating them.

    Full shot (ignore the red circle I added.)


    Top right corner crop


    Bottom right corner crop


    Bottom left corner crop


    Top left corner crop


    Am I being unreasonable to ask for a refund or repair? I've personally never seen this kind of corner disparity in a lens before. Thanks!

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    449
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

    Oh no, you've cross posted here as well. I'll paste what I said on LUF and RFF here as well

    "Its a niche lens, I don't think anybody but you could have bought it for its corner sharpness. For corner to corner sharp imaging you don't want an old Tessar design, never mind one that collapses. Enjoy the unsharpness in the corners and the way the lens renders. I hadn't even looked closely at corner sharpness on mine until you posted your concerns, I just knew it was soft, and yes, it is, so what? The lens design is from another age you need to leave modern expectations behind."

    Anywhere else I need to reply?

    Steve

  3. #3
    Senior Member douglasf13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles, California, USA
    Posts
    1,965
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

    Yes, if you'd read my post, I mentioned that I cross posted in various forums, because there are so few Perar users.

    The problem isn't corner sharpness. The problem is that the sharpness is wildly asymmetrical, seemingly meaning the lens is de-centered. Are all of your corners similar in resolution?

  4. #4
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,929
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

    From what i've seen of this lens, it's a bit of a Lomo lens for a Leica. Variable, for effect and aesthetic, not precision. Shooting with a Holga is the same thing: no one looks at the asymmetry or optical issues, they marvel at the images when they're good.

  5. #5
    Senior Member douglasf13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles, California, USA
    Posts
    1,965
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    From what i've seen of this lens, it's a bit of a Lomo lens for a Leica. Variable, for effect and aesthetic, not precision. Shooting with a Holga is the same thing: no one looks at the asymmetry or optical issues, they marvel at the images when they're good.
    I was one of the first to order this lens, and nowhere on the Japan Exposures website does it imply that this $800 lens is lomo-like. http://www.japanexposures.com/2011/0...3-535-mark-ii/

    Corner sharpness is one thing, and I didn't expect the world (even though I'm using a crop camera,) but de-centering is another issue altogether.

  6. #6
    Senior Subscriber Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    1,306
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

    Looks decentered...

  7. #7
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,929
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    ... Corner sharpness is one thing, and I didn't expect the world (even though I'm using a crop camera,) but de-centering is another issue altogether.
    Well, if you think it's de-centered, I'd suggest sending to a camera repair shop with an optical bench and having it collimated. It's not that hard for a good technician with an optical bench to take care of, given that we're talking about a four element lens, and shouldn't cost as much as shipping it back and forth to Japan.

    John Van Stelten at Focal Point (http://www.focalpointlens.com/) can do this work (as well as lots of other lens restoration stuff). He's at the high end of this type of work, but I know he's reliable.

  8. #8
    Senior Member douglasf13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles, California, USA
    Posts
    1,965
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

    Well, I've already made the mistake of sending it to Japan twice. The first time they tell me there is nothing wrong. The second time they tell me that the issue is there, but it is normal. They currently have the lens in their possession. Do you think that, rather than getting a refund, I should just sell it for more on ebay? It seems to me that, despite the manufacturer and retailer claiming that it is fine, I can't in good faith sell the thing, no? Heck, I could probably get a lot more on ebay for it than I paid.

    BTW, thanks for John's email. I emailed him to see what he thinks.

  9. #9
    Senior Member thrice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    1,265
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

    Given the incredibly high resolution of modern digital sensors I'm surprised Leica offers any collapsible lenses at all (90 ME). I would say it is a result of the collapsing design not a loose tolerances in construction thing. I imagine the Lens barrel could be redesigned and rebuilt to Leica standards for about double what it already costs.

  10. #10
    Senior Member douglasf13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles, California, USA
    Posts
    1,965
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by thrice View Post
    Given the incredibly high resolution of modern digital sensors I'm surprised Leica offers any collapsible lenses at all (90 ME). I would say it is a result of the collapsing design not a loose tolerances in construction thing. I imagine the Lens barrel could be redesigned and rebuilt to Leica standards for about double what it already costs.
    Yeah, that's a good point. It's just unfortunate how obvious the de-centering is. I'm surely not expecting corner sharpness to be like my ZM 35/2.8 or anything, and I expected to live with soft corners, but having the plane of focus so skewed is pretty disarming...especially on a crop camera. It's practically a mild tilt lens. I'd hate to think that I could throw this thing on ebay and sell it for more than I paid. It's a pretty early serial number from the first batch, so I know it is desirable, but do you all think I should just sell it on ebay without hesitation?

    Here are a couple of full sized pics downsized to only about 1000 pixels across, which I would hardly call pixel peeping, and you can still see the corner differences. On each of the shots, I achieved the sharpest focus possible on the "warning" label using a tripod.




  11. #11
    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Bangkok
    Posts
    1,470
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

    Hi Douglas,

    From the first sample shots, I would say the lens is decentered, and I personally would expect the seller to exchange the lens for me if not a full refund.

    However, if you want to be sure 100% about the decentering, I would advise you to take two oblique shots at infinity, wide open, and compare the corners. Your lens is definitely decentered but the infinity shots will leave no possible doubt.
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

  12. #12
    Senior Member douglasf13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles, California, USA
    Posts
    1,965
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

    Thanks, Edward. This is why I'm so confused. The seller is actually in possession of the lens right now, and even he is telling me that the issue exists. What is frustrating me is that he is expecting me to mark it down as just a characteristic of the lens design, which makes no sense to me.

    I've heard nothing but good things about Dirk at Japan Exposure's customer service, but this isn't going well.

  13. #13
    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Bangkok
    Posts
    1,470
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

    Decentering is never a characteristic of the lens design. It's not like spherical aberrations that are purposefully under corrected, it is a fault in lens assembly. I have the feeling the seller is not being honest about this issue. If all the lenses have assembly problems, then this brand must be crappy and the seller should return all his stock to the manufacturer.
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    724
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

    Douglas, with even seller himself saying lens is decentered this is not a question of whether it is decentered anymore but whether seller selling lens that is decentered is OK.

    In my personal opinion it is far from OK. It goes without saying that people expect that lens they buy new is centered. Especially when seller asks premium prices for a product.

    There was nothing in description of this lens when you purchased it that said something along the lines of "manufacturing tolerances of this lens are such that they can come as decentered to you, treat it as part of it's personality and purchase at your own risk".

    Therefore in my opinion seller owes you a full refund and full cost of shipping.

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    724
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardkaraa View Post
    Decentering is never a characteristic of the lens design ... it is a fault in lens assembly.
    Bingo!

  16. #16
    Senior Subscriber Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    1,306
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

    Maybe the seller doesn't speak English too well and doesn't understand what decentering means?

  17. #17
    Senior Member douglasf13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles, California, USA
    Posts
    1,965
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan Brittenson View Post
    Maybe the seller doesn't speak English too well and doesn't understand what decentering means?
    Interesting thought, but I'm not under the impression that I'm having language issues with Dirk.

  18. #18
    Senior Member douglasf13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles, California, USA
    Posts
    1,965
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

    Japan Exposures has decided to send the lens to Mr Miyazaki to inspect and hopefully fix the lens, which is fine by me. Hopefully the issue will be resolved. Thanks for everyone's opinion, and I'll post an update when I receive the lens back from repair.

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    449
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

    The truth of the matter is that we don't know how the lens resolves the corners of the image because we can't see the corners of the image, these photo's are cropped from the centre of the image.

    The Perar is not a Holga lens for a Leica. It is a triplet Cooke design using modern glass, hand made, and in short production runs. It is a very well corrected Cooke design. But as such it has all the characteristics of a Cooke

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooke_triplet

    It will be sharp on centre bleeding off to the edges and corners at wide apertures (much better stopped down), but since those corners are obscured to the person mounting it onto a camera that crops the image I say its hard to tell by how much the lens is faulty, if at all. The corners may still resolve themselves slightly better than the posted images suggest, particularly at f/stops and DOF at which the lens is at its optimum.

    Japan Exposures are a good company, and I'm sure do follow the time honoured business model of 'the customer is always right', so I see no intrinsic value in the terms of them agreeing with you, they will agree with you whatever the problem is. As for cross posting to so many forums, when you get plenty of replies wherever you post, I see that as simply a way to try and brow beat Dirk into giving you your money back after you realised you bought the wrong lens for you. Its the tactic of a mardy person, not somebody searching for expert opinion.

    Here is a link to the Perar web page that describes it in detail, showing that it is not a toy lens, or like a Holga, and that it is intended as a serious compact lens to make a pocketable M body combination, even if one copy of it turns out to be faulty.

    http://www.japanexposures.com/2011/0...3-535-mark-ii/

    Steve

  20. #20
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    3,674
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

    With regards to Steve's comments (above), I would have liked to have seen the results (images) taken with this particular sample of lens on a full frame camera (M9) and then assess the situation regarding optical asymmetry. Not always does a lens designed for full frame exhibiting certain corner characteristics on a format smaller than full frame, does so in in exactly the same manner on full frame. It could be worse, the same or somewhat different...as I've experienced on many occasions when testing out full frame lenses that were used on both a APS sized sensor vs. Full frame. It's not always a straight translation that if areas away from the center of the frame exhibit a fall off of resolution as seen on APS sensor, that it's a given that it's even worse when used on full frame. I realize we're talking about asymmetry in this particular case but I believe if a lens is designed to be used on full frame, then to assess any possible issues with the lens, it should be tested on full frame....and then take note of any possible issues.

    Dave (D&A)

  21. #21
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Terry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    6,955
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1145

    Re: Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

    250swb - personal attacks are not acceptable on this forum.

  22. #22
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,929
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    Japan Exposures has decided to send the lens to Mr Miyazaki to inspect and hopefully fix the lens, which is fine by me. Hopefully the issue will be resolved. Thanks for everyone's opinion, and I'll post an update when I receive the lens back from repair.
    I'm happy to hear that Dirk is working with you. I've dealt with him and Japan Exposures on a couple of transactions, they've been a good vendor to work with for me so far.

    (My impression of the lens from the JE write up remains that it is somewhat Lomo like, not a plastic lens like a Holga but a high quality lens of a simple design with a unique imaging signature, albeit one that is built to higher quality standards than the Lomo. It sure is an interesting lens, looking at the photos of it. I'd love to see some photos made with one.)

  23. #23
    Senior Member JimCollum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    santa cruz, ca
    Posts
    936
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    155

    Re: Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I'm happy to hear that Dirk is working with you. I've dealt with him and Japan Exposures on a couple of transactions, they've been a good vendor to work with for me so far.

    (My impression of the lens from the JE write up remains that it is somewhat Lomo like, not a plastic lens like a Holga but a high quality lens of a simple design with a unique imaging signature, albeit one that is built to higher quality standards than the Lomo. It sure is an interesting lens, looking at the photos of it. I'd love to see some photos made with one.)
    i have some albums over at the rangefinder forum

    M8 w perar
    http://www.rangefinderforum.com/phot...y.php?cat=8820

    M6/film w perar
    http://www.rangefinderforum.com/phot...9&ppuser=12851

  24. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    724
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by 250swb View Post
    ...
    I am not an expert on lens design nor am I expert on Cooke to know how "all the characteristics of a Cooke" relates to topic at hand but allow me to use some layman's common sense here:

    Quote Originally Posted by 250swb View Post
    The truth of the matter is that we don't know how the lens resolves the corners of the image because we can't see the corners of the image, these photo's are cropped from the centre of the image.

    ... mounting it onto a camera that crops the image I say its hard to tell by how much the lens is faulty, if at all.
    My logic tells me decentered lens is a decentered lens is a decentered lens and if you can see it on APS-C you will also see it on FF and anything in between so your statement makes no sense to me.

    Also, seller himself confirmed lens _is_ decentered which leaves even bigger question mark in my mind over your post.

    Quote Originally Posted by 250swb View Post
    As for cross posting to so many forums, when you get plenty of replies wherever you post, I see that as simply a way to try and brow beat Dirk into giving you your money back after you realised you bought the wrong lens for you. Its the tactic of a mardy person, not somebody searching for expert opinion.
    This is where I feel you are wronging Douglas by jumping to huge assumption. I happen to know him, very little true, but he has always left me with impression of guy that does things with no wrong intentions and goes more out of his way than others do to assure he has done people right and hasn't wronged them.

    I myself would cross post on number of forums if lens, or anything else, in question is rare enough, just as does everybody that is researching rare topic. There is nothing inappropriate about Douglas' actions while there is enough about yours but I won't go there, mod has already spoken on that.

  25. #25
    Senior Member douglasf13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles, California, USA
    Posts
    1,965
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

    FWIW, as I mentioned, I've been dealing with this issue since February, and, although I'm probably one of the more active camera forum posters on all of the internet, I've waited until now to post these questions in various forums where I've established a rapport with forum goers*. It isn't as if I signed up for forums to ask these questions. One forum had particularly helpful and valid responses to my issue, and that was the only one that I directed Dirk to. In fact, most of the responses that I've received have been both technically helpful and instructive. Within these multiple threads, only one poster has been particularly unhelpful, and we can imagine who that may be...

    If it makes more sense, since I'm using a NEX camera, I'll now refer to my issue as being a major symmetry issue in the edges of Zone B, rather than saying lens "corners." Granted, Dirk tested the lens on his M9 and claims there to be a corner issue, as well.

    p.s. nice shots, Jim. From what I can tell, my Perar performance does not seem to be inline with yours on the M8.

    *the Leica M9 forum is the only forum that I don't participate in daily, but, since I wanted to talk to other users of the lens, I figured it was a good place to ask.

  26. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    449
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    250swb - personal attacks are not acceptable on this forum.
    I'm glad you agree, Japan Exposures sure were on the ropes there in a one way diatribe. Happy to put some perspective on things

    Steve

  27. #27
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Terry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    6,955
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1145

    Re: Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by 250swb View Post
    I'm glad you agree, Japan Exposures sure were on the ropes there in a one way diatribe. Happy to put some perspective on things

    Steve
    Let's be clear I was commenting on your comments about Douglas.

  28. #28
    Senior Member thrice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    1,265
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

    Terry I'm sorry but I did not see Steve's post as a personal attack at all from my perspective. He described the limitations of the testing procedures, linked to useful information on the lens design, offered his opinion on the company in question and noted (what I also found unusual) that Douglas felt the need to post the same thread on numerous forums without waiting for replies on any particular avenue. It does *seem* a little attacking on his part since he seems to not be getting the result he wants from Japan Exposures. I think Steve is capable of much more abrasive posts (sorry mate) and maybe exercised more than usual levels of restraint Uh oh, did I just personally attack Steve?

    FWIW my dealings with Dirk and Mr Miyazaki have been phenomenal from a customer service perspective.

  29. #29
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Terry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    6,955
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1145

    Re: Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

    Here is my opinion on this. Japan Exposures was not even mentioned until 12 posts into this thread after it was said by posters that it was decentered and that he said he has been working on the issue for months.

    This is the section that I am referring to. It basically contradicts itself at the same time. Basically complaining about Douglas and at the same time saying that the lens literature doesn't lead one to believe that this is normal for the lens.

    Quote Originally Posted by 250swb View Post

    Japan Exposures are a good company, and I'm sure do follow the time honoured business model of 'the customer is always right', so I see no intrinsic value in the terms of them agreeing with you, they will agree with you whatever the problem is. As for cross posting to so many forums, when you get plenty of replies wherever you post, I see that as simply a way to try and brow beat Dirk into giving you your money back after you realised you bought the wrong lens for you. Its the tactic of a mardy person, not somebody searching for expert opinion.

    Here is a link to the Perar web page that describes it in detail, showing that it is not a toy lens, or like a Holga, and that it is intended as a serious compact lens to make a pocketable M body combination, even if one copy of it turns out to be faulty.

    http://www.japanexposures.com/2011/0...3-535-mark-ii/

    Steve

  30. #30
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    724
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by thrice View Post
    Terry I'm sorry but I did not see Steve's post as a personal attack at all from my perspective.
    On the other hand I did perceive it same way Terry did as Steve's tone was obvious from his very first post.

  31. #31
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    362
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    5

    Re: Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

    Daniel,

    Love your work. You are a very talented photographer. But it is in black and white that Steve called him a "mardy person" (whatever that means), and said he was trying to "browbeat Dirk". Sorry, but Steve cannot know what is in Douglas' mind. If that was Steve's opinion he should have stated it that way, but I do not know that would make it any less spurious a remark. I'm with Terry and Zoran on this one.

    Greg

  32. #32
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    362
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    5

    Re: Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

    Curiosity got the best of me. Below is the definition of mardy. If that is not a personal attack, I don't what is.

    Greg Keeton

    Sulky or whining; Non-co-operative, bad tempered or terse in communication.

  33. #33
    Senior Member douglasf13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles, California, USA
    Posts
    1,965
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

    I should probably just let this thread die off at this point, but I feel like I need to explain my scenario clearly, now that my intentions are being questioned, and I also don't want anyone to think that Dirk at Japan Exposures hasn't been open to helping me.

    In Feb '11 I mentioned the optical issue to Dirk, and he politely told me to send the lens back to him so he could check it out. FWIW, there were a few other things that I had them check, like the focus post not screwing in correctly. He had the maker check the lens, and he also checked the lens with his M9, and neither of them could find any issue with the lens. So, Dirk sent the lens back to me, and I didn't argue. "Maybe I'm crazy?" At this point, I did PM one or two people about my issue to ask their opinion, but that was it.

    I was undergoing both a residence and business move at the time, so I had to wait few months before I re-tested the lens. When I re-tested the lens in Aug., the exact same issues were more than apparent, and, in fact, it turns out the focusing pin on the lens had become stripped, and Dirk graciously offered to replace it with the newer version focusing pin that they're using in the newer models of the lens. So, I resent the lens to get the pin replaced and have the optics re-checked.

    Now, for whatever reason, Dirk confirms the optics issues on his camera, but claims that is par for the course with these Perars, which seems outrageous to me, since we're talking not about corner softness, but de-centering. All that I ever asked for was either a fix, a new copy from the next batch of lenses (despite mine from the initial run being possibly more "valuable,") or a refund of my original purchase price (and I didn't ask for reimbursement for the two times I've shipped the lens back to Japan.) All that I was offered was either $500, or, he would sell the lens for me, but I didn't feel comfortable selling a lens that had such issues.

    Since Dirk stated that this issue was normal for this lens, I decided to start a bunch of threads about it, so that way I could reach some of the very small user base of the Perar. Overall, the responses have been helpful. I PM'd a total of three people, thrice included, to look at these threads, because he is an expert M9 user (despite the fact we usually disagree. lol,) and I value his opinion on the matter (although I stupidly forgot that he'd already responded.)

    Of course, it was only after sending Dirk a link to one of these threads that he changed course and offered to have the maker look at the lens again, so I certainly did get a boost from that thread, intended or not. Honestly, I just wanted Dirk to see the responses from various photographers, because the responses that I was getting from him weren't all that logical to me by that point, and I had run out of ways to explain myself, so I thought third party opinions would help. Considering this is something that should have been easily resolved in March, I feel okay with the outcome, so far, but, if some on this thread consider me to be bad person for doing such a thing, so be it. I will say that, assuming this now gets resolved, I plan on still frequenting the Japan Exposures store. This isn't some kind of hatchet job.
    Last edited by douglasf13; 16th September 2011 at 09:07.

  34. #34
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    449
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

    I apologise for calling you mardy Douglas. Please accept it.

    I know why I said it, and shouldn't have, and it was because a perfectly good lens was getting a hatchet job done on it, and although started by you it was being perpetuated by supposedly knowledgeable members of the forum on a heresay basis. Holga and Lomo were mentioned, clearly ludicrous comparisons, but not disabused until I had a go at doing that.

    I would guess that you and I are the only two people with this lens on DPI, I use it on an M9 and see the whole picture (literally, full frame) and see no comparison with a Lomo lens (not that you made that link). The true quality is pretty much equal to a Leica 5cm f3.5 Elmar, yet with the unique feature of being 35mm and collapsible. A 5cm Elmar is also soft wide open, especially around the edges, and unless I am mistaken not many people would compare one of those with a Lomo or Holga lens.

    Steve

  35. #35
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    449
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    Here is my opinion on this. Japan Exposures was not even mentioned until 12 posts into this thread.....
    Post #1 actually

    Steve

  36. #36
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Godfrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Near San Jose, California
    Posts
    7,929
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by 250swb View Post
    ... A 5cm Elmar is also soft wide open, especially around the edges, and unless I am mistaken not many people would compare one of those with a Lomo or Holga lens.
    Perhaps I'm one of the few.

    My first Leicas were a Iic and IIf, one came with an Elmar 5cm f/3.5 the other with an Elmar 3.5cm f/3.5 when I got them. Both were, to quote the Olden Camera salesman who sold them to me in 1969 (both for $99), "old junk - nobody wants this stuff anymore." I used them off and on until 1985.

    One of the lenses was uncoated but I don't recall which it was at this point. Many years later, I briefly had a Lomo in the 1990s. To my eye, results from the Lomo lens compared quite similarly to the results with the old Elmars. :-)

  37. #37
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Terry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    6,955
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1145

    Re: Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by 250swb View Post
    Post #1 actually

    Steve
    You are correct. I didn't really notice it there and only when this issue was being discussed.

  38. #38
    Subscriber Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    3,026
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1117

    Re: Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

    I also have had this lens for a while now and I'm happy with it.

    It represents an honest effort to follow the design concepts of the Cooke triplet and Tessar designs with modern materials and designs - the Cooke was designed 118 years ago.

    You can't really put it into the same category as a machine stamped plastic Lomo lens, as it consists of carefully hand assembled and tested modern glass elements and coatings. It is a lovely thing to behold (and use) I rate its performance similar to my 1939 vintage Leica Summar 50mm which I love dearly.

    I think Douglas may be rating it against a standard that is really not in line with its design intent. I don't think it is at all inappropriate for him to sell the lens on Ebay, stating that it doesn't come up to the high standards that he anticipated. He may have to discount it a bit, bearing in mind the publicity, but I think a photographer with my inclinations or a collector would buy it.

    I don't think that Japan Exposures have misrepresented this lens in any of their descriptive material. It is what it is, a faithful attempt to use historic design philosophy to make a lens with modern materials and know how. The lens truly has a distinct personality with very bold color.

    Keith

  39. #39
    Senior Member douglasf13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles, California, USA
    Posts
    1,965
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Help! I'm having Perar lens issues.

    Yes, I am disappointed that the lens didn't work out, as I did like the color and vibe. Unsharp corners are one thing, but radically different corner sharpness kills it for me, especially on aps-c. My guess is that the problem wasn't the lens elements themselves, but, rather, the extension mechanism on my copy of the lens, but who knows?

    Dirk has received the lens back from the maker, who attempted to shim it, and, while it appears that it is improved a little, he has informed me that corner unevenness is still there, and he has given me a full refund for the lens, so I am satisfied with the outcome.

    p.s. For those that care, I certainly mentioned Japan Exposures right away, just as I would do with any other camera company issue on these forums. Considering that they are the only distributor of this lens, it wouldn't have been difficult to deduce, either way. Dirk did the right thing in the end, and I will still shop at his store...although I'm sure he'd probably not want to hear from me ever again. I still want want of those darn Contax G converted to M lenses.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •