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Thread: "Goodbye, Leica"

  1. #51
    Senior Member Jim Radcliffe's Avatar
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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    I'm about ready to give up on Leica. Yes, it's all my fault for being an insensitive myopic clod. Fine. But I do keep missing the shot. Sometimes it's focus, sometimes it's not noticing that the aperture depends on the lens, and thus can change when I change lenses. Sometimes it's inability to see the frame lines in the viewfinder. At least the blinking 32" helps with the lenscap on problem.

    But I no longer care what the reason is. It's not fun and the results aren't there for me after 10 months with this system.

    Matt
    Don't be too hard on yourself, Matt. I came to the same decision with my M8. It was good camera for some of what I shoot but not "most" of what and how I shoot.

    Today there are many choices and Leica is just one of them. I love Leica glass more than Leica bodies (rangefinder) but the cost for both, more often than not, out weighed the results I achieved with the Leica gear.

    I found myself missing shots as well and that, more than anything, was the reason I finally abandoned the M8. I sometimes miss it but those times are few and far between.

    As has often been said... Leica is not for everybody.
    Jim Radcliffe
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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Hey, I love the M9 files, no doubt about it ... and I do use it for paying work all the time ... I just don't trust it 100% when the chips are down and I have to get the shot, no second chances. Something as simple as a dad walking his daughter down the aisle in a cave like a church, no award winner to be had there ... but I damned well better get the shot.

    -Marc
    Funny - it's one of the things I like about weddings - the adrenalin involved in getting those 'must have' shots - getting back from the church and finding that someone has moved the barrier and there are BMW X5s and Mercs parked all over the sweep in front of the house where the group shots were going to be . . . . . and it'll be dark in ten minutes . . . and it's starting to rain. It's no time to have a camera misbehave . . or to have made an esoteric decision about what to shoot!

    The beauty of the M9 though is that you can easily have it slung around your neck just in case it suddenly becomes the right thing. . . . .

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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Funny - it's one of the things I like about weddings - the adrenalin involved in getting those 'must have' shots - getting back from the church and finding that someone has moved the barrier and there are BMW X5s and Mercs parked all over the sweep in front of the house where the group shots were going to be . . . . . and it'll be dark in ten minutes . . . and it's starting to rain. It's no time to have a camera misbehave . . or to have made an esoteric decision about what to shoot!

    The beauty of the M9 though is that you can easily have it slung around your neck just in case it suddenly becomes the right thing. . . . .
    But hitting someone with a D5 and large zoom on a tripod is infinitely more satisfying.

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    Senior Member JimCollum's Avatar
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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    so you like to carry heavy why not the D700, same IQ, almost as fast as the D3 but MUCH smaller and less weight.


    i've considered the D700... but have had the D3 since it came out (maybe the D800 is in the cards )

    but.. as Marc said.. the dual slots is a big feature.... and a lot of customers feel much better about paying when their photographer has the 'biggest' camera in sight. Even as a photographer, who should know better... I still cringe when I see a single photographer doing a professional wedding with a D60 and popup flash.

    Sure.. it's the final images that matter... but 'presentation' is still something that customers 'buy'

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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    But hitting someone with a D5 and large zoom on a tripod is infinitely more satisfying.
    Okay - you're right - but it needs to be someone else's D5 . . . there were plenty of available bricks

    Quote Originally Posted by JimCollum View Post
    i've considered the D700... but have had the D3 since it came out (maybe the D800 is in the cards )

    but.. as Marc said.. the dual slots is a big feature.... and a lot of customers feel much better about paying when their photographer has the 'biggest' camera in sight. Even as a photographer, who should know better... I still cringe when I see a single photographer doing a professional wedding with a D60 and popup flash.

    Sure.. it's the final images that matter... but 'presentation' is still something that customers 'buy'
    Hi Jim -
    I quite agree - when I was doing PR stuff a few years ago, I used to take the biggest camera I had . . . put it on one side (very visible) and shoot with the M8/M9 . . . But generally speaking an M9 seems to pass (credibility) muster - the D60 certainly doesn't.
    I have one friend (much better than me) who wished he could buy a D3 sized case to put his GF1 in!

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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    Do you enjoy the process of shooting more or looking at the images after? I have thousands of photos that I have not looked at since I took them. I personally enjoy the process of shooting more so whether I get the best shots is really secondary.

    Of course it's a little different when I am on an assignment.

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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    And here's a nice article on the topic

    http://theonlinephotographer.typepad...hotographer%29

  8. #58
    Member Agnius's Avatar
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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    At the end, gear is not that important. Shoot what you have, and enjoy the process!

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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    I was walking my noble hound 'ralphy' yesterday afternoon and a young man walking in the opposite direction suddenly bent down and pointed his camera at Ralphy whilst smiling at me

    I looked him squarely in the eye then asked Ralphy to "sit and stay" whilst stepping aside - and said to the nice young man who had obviously read a lot about how to approach people on the street - "only because you are shooting with a Leica"

    as I moved past I noticed that it was a Leica M7 Chrome body on aperture priority with a 50 cron - all in pretty new condition..

    Now Ralph ( being the good dog he is ) obediently looked at the photographer and gave him the " ralph the wonder model dog look" - and on command after the photographer had finished his snaps - proceeeded to catch up to me employing his usual jaunty walk.

    if the young man was a more experienced street shooter he may have been so generous as to thank me for the convenience I had provided. If he had a clue he should have turned around and made a shot of Ralph's jaunty walk towards me - into the setting sun - and if he had some more experience he may have asked himself what chances a bloke walking his dog knew what camera he awas using and gave special priveleges accordingly might mean and what further possible utility thi smay provide.

    So the moral of the story is shoot with what you like - but to be a photographer as oppossed to a user of cameras means a tad more sympathy and concern regarding "intent" and a tad less concern with the box in one hands.

    PS if it hadnt been a Leica I would still have made ralphy the wonder dog model available.

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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    If he had a clue he should have turned around and made a shot of Ralph's jaunty walk towards me - into the setting sun - and if he had some more experience he may have asked himself what chances a bloke walking his dog knew what camera he awas using and gave special priveleges accordingly might mean and what further possible utility thi smay provide.
    If he were a PJ he'd recognize the unusual situation, and that it's a story worth sharing with other photographers and friends, if not strangers. Then he'd ask himself what kind of image will go along with the story. Even if an image itself can't fully convey it, what kind of image will help the audience 'get it'? What kind of image will require the fewest words?

  11. #61
    Workshop Member Woody Campbell's Avatar
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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    So here we are a page and half into this thread and only one passing mention of the glass. Leica glass has magic. The kind of magic varies from lens to lens. That's why some Leica shooters have two or more lenses in the same focal length. Other camera makers make lens with magic, but not a lot of them, and rarely in the wide to 50mm range where Leica excels. Almost all Leica lenses have magic. With my now departed Canon and Nikon gear I had to stop down a couple of stops from wide open to get to the lens's sweet spot. Not with Leica. Wide open works great. My 24mm Summilux may be my best friend ever, lens-wise. I agree with most of the criticisms (except the part about the lens cap - I never use them) but for my style of shooting I don't care about them. I have a GH-2 kit when autofocus, fast or long matter.

    It would be nice is someone someday made a full frame CMOS alternative for Leica glass with electronic focus confirmation, ISO 25k and accurate frame lines but until then I'm happy with what I've got.

    To paraphrase Bill Clinton "it's the glass, stupid."

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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    Woody,

    If it weren't for the glass, I wouldn't have stayed with that camera for 30 minutes. I thought that was a given in any discussion of the M.
    I'm keeping the glass. I might even keep the M9, but the NEX 7 is looking dangerously attractive. Of course, what I really want is an S2, but I'd prefer to stay married a bit longer.

    Best,

    Matt

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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    Woody,

    If it weren't for the glass, I wouldn't have stayed with that camera for 30 minutes. I thought that was a given in any discussion of the M.
    I'm keeping the glass. I might even keep the M9, but the NEX 7 is looking dangerously attractive. Of course, what I really want is an S2, but I'd prefer to stay married a bit longer.

    Best,

    Matt
    This is really the whole thread distilled down to its essence. A camera is a tool, nothing else. Each type of camera has its respective merits or lack thereof. The original letter writer was expressing his frustration with the Leica body. He admittedly loved the lenses, but found the body wanting.Many of the posters accused him of some sort of defeat, but it is closer to a "realization". You may ask what realization that is, well for him, it was the impracticality if the body/lens combination for his particular use.

    I commend him for this realization, it is not about the gear at all, its about his shooting requirements. This is an evolutionary step in the life of a photographer, he has evolved past the "gear for the sake of gear" and moved on to the the "photograph".

    Now before all of you flame me for this Leica sacrilege, please allow me to continue. When one moves to the rangefinder world, one is doing the same thing. You give up many conveniences, speed, AF etc... Why, you ask, well its is because of the image quality that you gain. Does this come at a price, yes it does, you have to use the M body which is if the truth is told, well past its due date. Even Leica has recognized this, and comment on EVF/hybrid EVF as the future - perhaps the M10... But many users are willing to embrace or tolerate this because for them, the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

    For many photographers the system is just not fast enough, its just that simple. Their requirement is for speed, AF etc... Missing the shot is not an option for most Pro's. We have seen many people reluctantly move away from Leica due to failing eyesight (AF requirement) for example. The new NEX series offers a significant potential for these users.

    Really, Leica needs to step up with a modern body. They have leveraged the past about as much as they can, and it is time to move forward. If they don't then they will get creamed by either Sony, Fuji, Ricoh or someone else. How long is it before somebody brings a Leica Mount body to market with a modern interface, not long is my guess... Look at the NEX, most of the lenses used are adapted rangefinder glass. How many Leica users already carry a 5N for back up?

    IMHO

    Andrew
    Home page: www.aphotovid.com

    Check out my gear blog!

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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    Perhaps you are also missing the point that for many photographers the body IS the point? Not just the lenses, which are admittedly amazing? The fact that it does not intrude into picture making process any more than it has to -- that the non-AF focusing system quickly, quietly and assuredly places the focus exactly where your eye wants it. The viewfinder operates at the speed of light with nearly perfect acuity -- the color accuracy, refresh rate and detail level is something that an EVF will never achieve, because it is reality, not a simulation. That there is not a complicated menu system and the ability to shoot full-HD video.

    There are dozens of cameras out there that aim to have every last bit of technical wizardry that is currently possible, many of them will take M or R lenses with an adapter if you want to use them. There are extremely few cameras that are focused on providing the user with a clear, uncluttered interface, and an emphasis on only the things that matter most -- removing barriers between the photographer and subject (cluttered viewfinders, intrusive menus and functions, electronic warnings, bits and bobs and all manner of other things which CAN be useful, but are not always needed or desired), allowing the photographer to manually control the most important aspects of the shot with tactile input rather than button pushing and click wheel turning, and focusing on image quality -- so choosing a CCD without an AA filter that has better color fidelity and higher resolution than similarly sized CMOS sensors.

    Anyway, I agree with people who will say to each their own -- I am totally onboard with that! Just please don't try to turn the M system into everything else out there! The NEX system is amazing, go shoot with that! Let those of us who LIKE the M system and want it to keep its general character intact live in peace! There is a reason that the fundamentals of the M system have not changed in 55 years or so -- it is because a lot of people really like them as they work now! If that does not work for you, that is certainly no problem, and says nothing about your talent or skill as a photographer, but it is like coming in and saying, "Automatic transmissions can now shift gears faster than manual, so all cars should now be automatic". Some people like manual!
    My photos are here: http://www.stuartrichardson.com and more recent work here: http://stuartrichardson.tumblr.com/ Please have a look at my book!
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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Gough View Post
    Now before all of you flame me for this Leica sacrilege, please allow me to continue. When one moves to the rangefinder world, one is doing the same thing. You give up many conveniences, speed, AF etc... Why, you ask, well its is because of the image quality that you gain. Does this come at a price, yes it does, you have to use the M body which is if the truth is told, well past its due date.
    Hi Andrew
    I'd like to sit in a pub over a pint and discuss this post, but as I can't I'll keep it simple.

    I think your argument hinges around this section - I've italicised your crucial mistake.
    For me - and for many other M shooters, this is a by product of the real reason for shooting a rangefinder. The real reason is the rangefinder . . . it may be old tech, it may be slow (but only if you aren't practiced).
    Having a fixed field of view through a bright viewfinder with framelines showing roughly what you're going to get . . . THAT'S why - (the splendid lenses and image quality are just a bonus).
    The whole point is that it's like shooting with your eye - every other method gets in-between you and the image - of course, there are advantages in SLR viewfinders, good EVFs etc. - but they are simply different, not better.

    I'd love to see a faster M9 - i.e. with a bigger buffer and better shot to shot times, more accurate frame lines, a quieter shutter, perhaps a thinner body. But otherwise I don't want to change anything - It's a special shooting experience that is it's own reward.

    By all means bring on all the things you suggest - but put it in a DIFFERENT CAMERA - an M should always work just like it is. There is room for incremental improvement in an M body, but it is NOT past it's sell-by date (far from it).

    A spray gun is never going to replace a paint brush - and I'm sure you wouldn't say it should. To my eye a Leica M is like a paintbrush - it can certainly be improved, but don't turn it into something else. . . . . . . . I use spray guns as well as paint brushes, and I'm planning on using a NEX7 along with my M for M lenses . . . . . and also a dSLR . . . horses for courses.


    p.s.
    Hi Stuart - thinking along the same lines . . .you're just quicker than me!

    Just this guy you know

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    There are many different viewpoints for and against using an M body. It depends greatly on the type of shooting you enjoy(or need to accomplish) and the skill level you can attain. Much of the modern alternatives are just plain easier to use ..but this doesn t make them a better tool for everyone .

    Most people can t focus an M well enough for digital unless they use the camera frequently ,have good eyesight and are willing to keep there equipment calibrated. With that said the camera can be very fast when you know how to use it (and yes work around its limitations ). Missing focus can just ruin the experience and kill confidence...I ve had plenty of friends say they just can t focus the $%%%^ camera . After calibration and adding the right diopter ..now they can. So its a fair point to note that it takes more effort than with modern designs .

    I shoot a lot with my M9 s (50K or more per year) but I also use Nikon D3S/D3X for sports ..so I know the difference and for action,flash etc there is no comparison ....but for street and travel the M9s get taken every time .

    I have an x100 ..a great camera but an entirely different working model ..I can get there with it but its hard and I know the EVF has some real advantages ...close but not replacing my M s .

    All street shooters want faster handling (larger buffer etc) ,better ISO and easier focusing ..but we do enjoy using fast wide angles on a FF sensor in a high quality body with great glass. Fuji could do it but the trend is toward APS C sized sensors as the right balance between performance and cost . Leica could use some competition for sure ..but the M9 is best camera I ve ever had ..because it works for me .

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    Jono and Stuart ..you guys are fast !

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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    I'd be happy with only one change to the M: changing the field of view in the viewfinder to match the mounted lens...maybe leave a little bit in the periphery to see outside the frame

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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi Andrew
    I'd like to sit in a pub over a pint and discuss this post, but as I can't I'll keep it simple.

    I think your argument hinges around this section - I've italicised your crucial mistake.
    For me - and for many other M shooters, this is a by product of the real reason for shooting a rangefinder. The real reason is the rangefinder . . . it may be old tech, it may be slow (but only if you aren't practiced).
    Having a fixed field of view through a bright viewfinder with framelines showing roughly what you're going to get . . . THAT'S why - (the splendid lenses and image quality are just a bonus).
    The whole point is that it's like shooting with your eye - every other method gets in-between you and the image - of course, there are advantages in SLR viewfinders, good EVFs etc. - but they are simply different, not better.

    I'd love to see a faster M9 - i.e. with a bigger buffer and better shot to shot times, more accurate frame lines, a quieter shutter, perhaps a thinner body. But otherwise I don't want to change anything - It's a special shooting experience that is it's own reward.

    By all means bring on all the things you suggest - but put it in a DIFFERENT CAMERA - an M should always work just like it is. There is room for incremental improvement in an M body, but it is NOT past it's sell-by date (far from it).

    A spray gun is never going to replace a paint brush - and I'm sure you wouldn't say it should. To my eye a Leica M is like a paintbrush - it can certainly be improved, but don't turn it into something else. . . . . . . . I use spray guns as well as paint brushes, and I'm planning on using a NEX7 along with my M for M lenses . . . . . and also a dSLR . . . horses for courses.


    p.s.
    Hi Stuart - thinking along the same lines . . .you're just quicker than me!
    Hey I'm all for sitting in a pub and chatting about photography!

    To me, and I stress - to me. The fundamental question is what works for the individual. In your case, you have given your reasons why the Leica experience is worthwhile for you, and they are no less valuable than the letter writers - just different. This is my point. each person will have their own particular reasons, but in the end its about the realization of what works for the individual and not about the gear per say.

    The reasons why we shoot what we shoot, are more important than the gear itself. We have all seen stunning images from just about every type of camera/lens combo imaginable, this is the essence of it, the image is the raison d'etre.

    In the forums these days, I see a singular obsession with gear... The general level of photography has split into two camps, gear testing and a small amount of really, really, good photography. I am guilty of this as well, it is fun to debate the merits of a lens, and it can often open doors to a new experience. But how often do we see a post your stunner thread vs a ZM/Leica/Canon/whatever thread. The best photographers, that I know, pick gear that works and concentrate on making great images. In fact, there are a couple that would come back with stunning images from just about any camera.

    Andrew
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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Gough View Post
    This is really the whole thread distilled down to its essence. A camera is a tool, nothing else. Each type of camera has its respective merits or lack thereof. The original letter writer was expressing his frustration with the Leica body. He admittedly loved the lenses, but found the body wanting.Many of the posters accused him of some sort of defeat, but it is closer to a "realization". You may ask what realization that is, well for him, it was the impracticality if the body/lens combination for his particular use.

    I commend him for this realization, it is not about the gear at all, its about his shooting requirements. This is an evolutionary step in the life of a photographer, he has evolved past the "gear for the sake of gear" and moved on to the the "photograph".

    Now before all of you flame me for this Leica sacrilege, please allow me to continue. When one moves to the rangefinder world, one is doing the same thing. You give up many conveniences, speed, AF etc... Why, you ask, well its is because of the image quality that you gain. Does this come at a price, yes it does, you have to use the M body which is if the truth is told, well past its due date. Even Leica has recognized this, and comment on EVF/hybrid EVF as the future - perhaps the M10... But many users are willing to embrace or tolerate this because for them, the advantages outweigh the disadvantages.

    For many photographers the system is just not fast enough, its just that simple. Their requirement is for speed, AF etc... Missing the shot is not an option for most Pro's. We have seen many people reluctantly move away from Leica due to failing eyesight (AF requirement) for example. The new NEX series offers a significant potential for these users.

    Really, Leica needs to step up with a modern body. They have leveraged the past about as much as they can, and it is time to move forward. If they don't then they will get creamed by either Sony, Fuji, Ricoh or someone else. How long is it before somebody brings a Leica Mount body to market with a modern interface, not long is my guess... Look at the NEX, most of the lenses used are adapted rangefinder glass. How many Leica users already carry a 5N for back up?

    IMHO

    Andrew
    At the risk of seemingly contradicting myself, please allow me to answer your post. While I've repeatedly said the M is not easy to live with, note that I also said I have lived with a M for decades and decades in an unbroken chain from my first M4 through the current M9. That begs the question as to why?

    I just finished a 20 page illustrated treatise regarding the use of a M for a fellow that I'm tutoring at his request, so the answers are fresh in my mind.

    The M is a rangefinder. For various reasons that have changed over the years, it has remained the best rangefinder. Maybe someone will make a better one, but that has been the same statement of "maybe" since the M was introduced in the 1950s.

    Because it is a rangefinder, the actual user experience is different from cameras that aren't a rangefinder, including things like the NEX. That experience can be distilled down to one word ... content.

    When you shoot with a rangefinder, there are two visual elements set before your eyes through the viewfinder ... the subject, and how much of the subject is being recorded ... content and framing. No W/A effect, no telephoto effect, no DOF effect ... neither the part that's in focus or the portion that's OOF, no Bokeh ... nothing but WHAT you are shooting. It is a direct relationship with the subject matter, with minimal visual distractions.

    While the M can be used for shooting almost anything, and is, it is best in the hands of photographers who's mission it is to record meaningful content as the over-riding creative intent ... emotionally, socially, or psychologically ... often they are less interested in technical exercises, or as slaves to today's photo culture that worships those technical exercises, and sets them as the measure of photographic excellence. This is not meant to absolve a M user from good technique and practiced handling, instead it should be of little or no concern after that practiced accomplishment is met. There-in lies the rub, impatience is not an attribute one applies to learning the rangefinder way of photography.

    There is no doubt to anyone who is relatively familiar with a modern DSLR, that AF is quicker. All to often that quickness is necessary because the practitioner is often slow to see, therefore the camera has to be faster. Good rangefinder shooters (and there are many), get the shot because they are so focused on the content only, meaning that they are ahead of the curve and anticipate. I call it "emotional anticipation," ... so tuned into the subjects around you that you see the shot coming. This is a very hard concept to put into words, but those who work this way "get it", and others don't ... so even if it could be put into words more clearly, it wouldn't matter.

    Can this happen with other type cameras? ... sure it can and most certainly does, but IMO it isn't nearly as much a part of their DNA like is of the M rangefinder.

    My 2˘

    -Marc
    Last edited by fotografz; 20th November 2011 at 11:10.

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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    another vote for the M9 body.

    It is my favorite body of my camera "collection" besides maybe the S2.
    Viewfinder, user interface, IQ just works very good for me. So the lenses might be the main argument for some, but for me (and maybe some others) the body is a factor as well.

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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Gough View Post
    Why, you ask, well its is because of the image quality that you gain. Does this come at a price, yes it does, you have to use the M body which is if the truth is told, well past its due date.
    No, the M8/M9 is the only decent digital rangefinder out there. If I didn't have the M9 I'd still have a Mamiya 7II and shoot film. It's about the viewfinder you can look through even in pitch black, that shows the world minimally distorted by optics so doesn't distract from the image you envisioned before lifting the camera to your eye; it's about a rangefinder whose only purpose is to measure distance, and lenses with proper focusing scales. And, of course, the extremely high quality compact lenses - in my case, wide angles that don't have to clear a mirror box. For shooting subjects other than romping kids and sports and wildlife and such, this is an upgrade, not a compromise or downgrade. It's UNcompromising. Unlike a DSLR it's not a jack of all trades, ace of none.

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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    I somethimes wonder how long some people would last outside, in the open air, left to their own devices to find a restaurant or coffe shop or their way home. Put a filter on your lens and don't use a lens cap, then you have one less thing to blame in your life

    Steve

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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    All street shooters want faster handling (larger buffer etc) ,better ISO and easier focusing ..but we do enjoy using fast wide angles on a FF sensor in a high quality body with great glass. Fuji could do it but the trend is toward APS C sized sensors as the right balance between performance and cost . Leica could use some competition for sure ..but the M9 is best camera I ve ever had ..because it works for me .
    Totally agree, and I think the M8/M9 is ridiculously over-engineered. A good RF doesn't have to be built like a swiss watch. The Mamiya RFs work just fine and they're far simpler, and even more electronic than film Ms. Higher ISO would always be welcome as it makes shooting easier, but I personally wouldn't compromise on clean long exposures. (Though those aren't contradictory, just the priority for me.) I personally would like a little more resolution; maybe 25-30MP without an AA filter. (Basically extend the 16x22 print quality to 20x30.) 5-6 fps in a high speed mode, but even more I'd love a quieter camera. And I wouldn't object to a focus confirmation indicator at the bottom that can be enabled for when I want a very precise distance measurement in low light.

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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    Marc

    Very nice summary of what makes a RF unique . Next year will make it 50 years of shooting a Leica M . When I earned my first pay check from a real job ...I jumped in my car and drove 6 hours to Chicago (Altman s) and bought a black paint M4 ....gave my Dad back his beat up M2 and borrowed his 35 summicron (which I thought was butt ugly because it was chrome).

    I ve always had a SLR of some brand and even MF most of the time ..but RF photography works the best for the type of street,travel and family stuff I enjoy the most .

    I view a scene generally without looking thru the viewfinder ..when I raise the camera to my eye there is no adjustment ,,just a quick focus bump and i shoot . When you shoot enough a natural rhythm develops and my hand eye coordination is often sufficient to hold the camera either high or low and frame with decent accuracy . I use a preshot routine much like a golfer when I move into a new situation and then I try to concentrate on the subject and the moment . The results are better when I can use the viewfinder but this is mostly because I can accurately see the edges .

    The Fuji X100 has a lot going for it with the hybrid RF and I could learn to use it but its not quite a Leica .

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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    I'd be happy with only one change to the M: changing the field of view in the viewfinder to match the mounted lens...maybe leave a little bit in the periphery to see outside the frame
    Hi There . . . . .
    and that one change would stop me using one immediately and forever - Marc's excellent 'treatise' is where it's at - the point is that the rangefinder is always the same.

    Contax did this with the G2 - and all they got was a poor excuse for an SLR - if you want to see what the lens sees, that's fine (I often do). That's the time to use an SLR!

    Accurate framelines . . . .now that's something different!

    all the best

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Gough View Post
    Hey I'm all for sitting in a pub and chatting about photography!
    Obviously the best answer - but it can get expensive and take it's toll the next day!
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Gough View Post
    To me, and I stress - to me. The fundamental question is what works for the individual. In your case, you have given your reasons why the Leica experience is worthwhile for you, and they are no less valuable than the letter writers - just different. This is my point. each person will have their own particular reasons, but in the end its about the realization of what works for the individual and not about the gear per say.
    . . . . well, okay, hard to disagree - but that certainly isn't what you said before - I quote it again - you were pretty categorical:
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Gough View Post
    You give up many conveniences, speed, AF etc... Why, you ask, well its is because of the image quality that you gain. Does this come at a price, yes it does, you have to use the M body which is if the truth is told, well past its due date.
    Doesn't pay much lip service to individual requirements I don't think!

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Gough View Post
    The reasons why we shoot what we shoot, are more important than the gear itself. We have all seen stunning images from just about every type of camera/lens combo imaginable, this is the essence of it, the image is the raison d'etre.
    Now you're being categorical again - there are many reasons for taking photographs, the image may be the raison d'ętre - but I can think of several different reasons, one of which might be testing out gear!

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Gough View Post
    In the forums these days, I see a singular obsession with gear... The general level of photography has split into two camps, gear testing and a small amount of really, really, good photography. I am guilty of this as well, it is fun to debate the merits of a lens, and it can often open doors to a new experience.
    You don't need to feel guilty about it, after all, it's largely what the forum is for.
    But you're being categorical again - Why isn't it possible to both be obsessed with gear on the one hand and taking really really good photographs on the other? Look around here a little more, it clearly IS possible - look at photographers like Ashwin and Matt, Woody . . . oh - many others (sorry I missed you) - all terrible gear heads - all splendid photographers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Gough View Post
    But how often do we see a post your stunner thread vs a ZM/Leica/Canon/whatever thread. The best photographers, that I know, pick gear that works and concentrate on making great images. In fact, there are a couple that would come back with stunning images from just about any camera.

    Andrew
    Well, the stunner threads go on and on - there's plenty of them - one or two in each forum. . . . . And you're being categorical AGAIN. The best photographers I know are all different - some don't even know the make of camera they use (honestly, an excellent lady photographer specialising in wildlife - I asked her and she couldn't remember). Others are completely obsessed by gear.

    Some Like using Ms for valid reasons - some don't get it . . . one thing which seems to be fairly universal though is that those that don't get it seem to think there's nothing to get!

    All the best

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    Marc

    Very nice summary of what makes a RF unique . Next year will make it 50 years of shooting a Leica M . When I earned my first pay check from a real job ...I jumped in my car and drove 6 hours to Chicago (Altman s) and bought a black paint M4 ....gave my Dad back his beat up M2 and borrowed his 35 summicron (which I thought was butt ugly because it was chrome).

    I ve always had a SLR of some brand and even MF most of the time ..but RF photography works the best for the type of street,travel and family stuff I enjoy the most .

    I view a scene generally without looking thru the viewfinder ..when I raise the camera to my eye there is no adjustment ,,just a quick focus bump and i shoot . When you shoot enough a natural rhythm develops and my hand eye coordination is often sufficient to hold the camera either high or low and frame with decent accuracy . I use a preshot routine much like a golfer when I move into a new situation and then I try to concentrate on the subject and the moment . The results are better when I can use the viewfinder but this is mostly because I can accurately see the edges .

    The Fuji X100 has a lot going for it with the hybrid RF and I could learn to use it but its not quite a Leica .
    Thanks for your great personal example. It's funny how when you have to write and illustrate a tutorial, scattered impressions or experiences fall into order, and how ones own history reminds you how instrumental the M has been to your photographic view of the world around you.

    I vividly recall how every time I was struck by an image, photo essay, or some photographer's vision I noted that it usually had been shot with a Leica rangefinder ... so I saved and saved to get one for myself. I remember exactly my thoughts as I took it out of the box ... this simple camera, no frills, not even a light meter at a time when every other camera had one ... "No more excuses Marc."

    Like you there was usually a SLR of some sort, and often a Medium Format camera lurking in the background ... which holds true to this day. Sometimes, the M was the only camera I owned, and it went everywhere with me.

    Oddly, perhaps because of my initial impressions from those rangefinder photographers that had first infected me, I rarely used the M in any other way than with deadly serious intent. When I picked it up, it was to hunt for a defining moment, or to extract a character study instead of shooting a "portrait," or to say something beyond just making a pretty picture. The M can do each of those things, and some very good photographers effectively use it in that manner, but I just never particularly thought of it that way.

    -Marc

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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    It's easy to pick nits with any camera out there - it's always been this way, and always will be (until they develop "the perfect camera" anyway). As for the M system, sure, there are both pros and cons and not even necessarily a Leica thing (RFs as a whole).

    Personally, I like the small size, high quality of the images, solid construction and ridiculous simplicity of it all. For what I shoot most of the time, this is all I need or want. There's something about the complete lack of frills that I like. It puts the onus on me and removes distractions.

    Of course the M system is but a tool and one of many. If I want to shoot telephoto with blazing AF and frame rates, fine - I'll use my DSLR. If I need to shoot macro or studio, I'll switch to the Hassy/CFV. Horses for courses as they say.

    It's easy to say, "I wish ____ did ____." It's human nature and as photographers, we all want the aforementioned "perfect camera." Face it, ain't gonna happen. Use whatever suits the job at hand, tickles your fancy or fits the budget. It's all good.

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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Obviously the best answer - but it can get expensive and take it's toll the next day!

    . . . . well, okay, hard to disagree - but that certainly isn't what you said before - I quote it again - you were pretty categorical:


    Doesn't pay much lip service to individual requirements I don't think!


    Now you're being categorical again - there are many reasons for taking photographs, the image may be the raison d'ętre - but I can think of several different reasons, one of which might be testing out gear!



    You don't need to feel guilty about it, after all, it's largely what the forum is for.
    But you're being categorical again - Why isn't it possible to both be obsessed with gear on the one hand and taking really really good photographs on the other? Look around here a little more, it clearly IS possible - look at photographers like Ashwin and Matt, Woody . . . oh - many others (sorry I missed you) - all terrible gear heads - all splendid photographers.


    Well, the stunner threads go on and on - there's plenty of them - one or two in each forum. . . . . And you're being categorical AGAIN. The best photographers I know are all different - some don't even know the make of camera they use (honestly, an excellent lady photographer specialising in wildlife - I asked her and she couldn't remember). Others are completely obsessed by gear.

    Some Like using Ms for valid reasons - some don't get it . . . one thing which seems to be fairly universal though is that those that don't get it seem to think there's nothing to get!

    All the best
    You know, I think that we are going to have to agree to disagree on this. I stand by my statement regarding the body. Personally, I spent quite a bit of time with a friends M8, and while I do understand the allure, the body was just too slow. It has nothing to do with anticipating the moment, and it has nothing to do with "practice" as I have shot with MF glass for decades.

    Believe me, I really wanted it to work, as I am tired of carrying a fast SLR kit. So, I tried and I tried. However, in the end it just did not work for me, and like the writer of the letter, I moved on. Simply a personal choice.

    I feel that Micheal Richmann kind spelled it out with his open letter to Leica.

    http://www.luminous-landscape.com/es...n-letter.shtml

    I am not alone in my observations, in fact quite a few people on this thread have mentioned that they feel the same way. This can't be good for Leica in the long run, they have to face the fact's that MikeM pointed out. As jklotz pointed out, it is no longer a tool for professional use (with a few exceptions), but its primary use today is for a purist personal use.

    My point was: that just because it doesn't work for some of us, it doesn't mean that it will not work for others. I am glad that it does because it keeps the system available.

    Today, Leica is doing well. I hope that it continues, and that they can fund the development of the next M and so on. I believe that camera's should evolve including the M, I also feel that the hybrid viewfinder/focus peaking is probably Leica's next step, and if they do I will have a look. In the end, Leica almost disappeared because it stopped evolving in the film days, one has to wonder if if doesn't evolve, is that scenario possible again...

    IMHO

    Andrew
    Home page: www.aphotovid.com

    Check out my gear blog!

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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    MR's letter is no different than a post on a forum and it's important to keep in mind that it's just one user's idea of making the M9 "better."

    Personally, I have zero interest in an EVF. I have no problems with exposure either. I don't care about AF, "advanced hyperfocal prompting" or a built-in thumb grip. Granted, others may feel differently. Again, it's about the simplicity of the M9 as it is. I can't help but wonder if people looking for all these things in the next digital M are just using the wrong tool. All these features exist already - in a DSLR. If I wanted all that, I'd use one.

    Maybe I'm just being an old fuddy-duddy (though I've only used Leicas since 2008, RFs since 1982). But I'm content with the status quo.

    Of course, I'm not talking about refinements - things like higher ISO capability or even live view (assuming the next digital M will use a CMOS sensor). But let's leave the "advanced features" and automation for a different camera. One thing I really appreciate about the Ms is that I can use them blindfolded (or without my glasses; same thing). I don't have to wade through pages of menus - something that caused me to sell my Canon G9 (and rarely if ever use the S90).

    The baseplate? Okay, I can get behind that. It's just a pain in the @ss.

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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Negative View Post
    Of course, I'm not talking about refinements - things like higher ISO capability or even live view (assuming the next digital M will use a CMOS sensor). But let's leave the "advanced features" and automation for a different camera. One thing I really appreciate about the Ms is that I can use them blindfolded (or without my glasses; same thing). I don't have to wade through pages of menus - something that caused me to sell my Canon G9 (and rarely if ever use the S90).

    The baseplate? Okay, I can get behind that. It's just a pain in the @ss.
    LOL - well, I really like the baseplate . . . so they mustn't change that
    Oh! actually, I'd like to see the round tab like the older Ms rather than the flat one we now have

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Gough View Post
    Today, Leica is doing well. I hope that it continues, and that they can fund the development of the next M and so on. I believe that camera's should evolve including the M, I also feel that the hybrid viewfinder/focus peaking is probably Leica's next step, and if they do I will have a look. In the end, Leica almost disappeared because it stopped evolving in the film days, one has to wonder if if doesn't evolve, is that scenario possible again...
    Perhaps we don't really have to disagree:

    Actually, I agree that the camera should evolve . . . . but I don't think you should take away anything it already has - so, as far as I'm concerned, I'm all happy with a hybrid viewfinder (or a plugin EVF if that's not possible). . . . .but only if you still have a proper bright optical rangefinder with the rangefinder patch.
    I'd be overjoyed with focus peaking on Live view - or an EVF - or the Electrical part of a hybrid viewfinder.
    I'd really like to see faster processing and thus faster shot to shot times
    I'd like a quieter shutter
    I'd like the camera to be thinner
    I'd be quite happy with a CMOS sensor (unlike Marc I think)
    I personally have no interest in video - but I can see that it might be a nice addition for many people (especially if they implemented focus peaking)
    I wouldn't mind if it had a zooming rangefinder . . . as long as you could turn it off!

    BUT

    I feel incredibly strongly that you should be able to pick up a Leica M10/M11/M12 and have it look and feel and work exactly the same way as an M3,M6 and M9.
    The point is not to sacrifice any of what's there, for what could be.
    Add options by all means - but the original concept is (for some people) a gem of real beauty (which is why it IS still alive after 60 years). Let's keep that beauty.

    I think it's rather like your implication that one could either be a gear head OR a serious photographer . . I think you can be both. In much the same way I think the M10/M11 can both work exactly as it does . . AND be a 'modern' camera as well - I just don't want to sacrifice the way it currently works for something else - not any bit of the way it currently works
    I also think that there's real scope for producing another camera with options for AF and all the other stuff other interchangeable lens cameras have.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    IMHO Leica should offer a modernized body alongside the traditional.

    They should introduce an M10 that's an evolution of the M9...faster, thinner, better LCD, higher ISO, etc. At the same time, introduce an M11 that brings along new technology...hybrid viewfinder, support for new AF lenses, and who knows what else.

    But the real problem is that Leica is so slow to react to the market. They are leaving a lot of money on the table because they can't fill the current lens demand. There really is no need for new bodies until they get that addressed...

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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    ^ I was going to suggest that as well. Fork the digital M bodies into traditional/modern.

    But yeah, if they can't get lenses into the hands of people that use said bodies it's all for naught.
    Last edited by Double Negative; 21st November 2011 at 09:14.

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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    Quote Originally Posted by emr View Post
    A funny reader post at Huff's:

    http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2011/1...-paul-lanigan/

    I guess it's not for everybody after all.
    Just read Steve Huff's article. Eh? who cares if it's not the right camera for him and the way he wants to shoot?

    A Leica M is not the right camera for me at all times either, although a Leica lens of appropriate focal length for what I'm shooting could always be the right lens. However, a Leica M9 is a superb camera for some times, and the only question in my mind is whether those 'some times' are worth the $7000 price tag. The question isn't even whether I can afford it ... That's more of a matter of my priorities than the price.

    Is a Leica M9 fast enough? I've been shooting with the M4-2 the past couple of days. It's fast enough for what I use it for, once I developed (or rather, re-acquired) the small skill required to focus it swiftly and accurately. An M9 is faster ... you don't have to wind the film and you don't have to rewind and reload it every 36 exposures.

    I want a Leica M to stay a Leica M. I'd also like to see Leica release their new system, a mirrorless system camera, with all the modern conveniences AND Leica M-Bayonet lens compatibility. Because it's always the lenses that matter most ...

    To Steve Huff: enjoy your Canon camera. Make great photographs. That's what matters, not whether you like M9.

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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    Having looked at a lot of viewfinders recently, I'm now leaning towards getting a prescription corrective lens for the M9. It's a beautiful thing when you can see through it.

    On Marc's point of subject connection and anticipation: I've heard this point made frequently, and claims to the contrary notwithstanding, I get the point. And the only way to achieve that level of mastery is practice. (The same is said with justification for tech cameras). Of course, laziness and technological alternatives make that practice harder to manage, but in the month or so since my quoted post above, I've practiced a lot with the M9, and it's getting better. Not good, not easy, but better.

    Best,

    Matt

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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    ^ I just received a custom Walter RX Eyepiece today actually (and will do a full review on it) but initial impressions are... Wow. Nice to see so clearly, as I don't wear my glasses to shoot. I can even read the screen through the VF!

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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    HI Robert

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    IMHO Leica should offer a modernized body alongside the traditional.

    They should introduce an M10 that's an evolution of the M9...faster, thinner, better LCD, higher ISO, etc. At the same time, introduce an M11 that brings along new technology...hybrid viewfinder, support for new AF lenses, and who knows what else.
    Why call it an M11? that simply ends the M line as we know it.
    I'm all in favour of such a camera (actually, I'm in favour of adding these facilities to an M as long as you don't remove the core functionality). . . but if you ARE going to REMOVE the core functionality (which is a constant view rangefinder with a focus patch, the basic control layout and simple menus) - then call it something else please, and keep on developing the M line as well!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    Sure...feel free to come up with another model number.

    In my earlier post when I said 'faster' I was referring to the computer aspect: mostly displaying/zooming of images, just to clarify.

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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    Call it the X1! Oh, wait.

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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    I am also disliking to have to wait so long for a new M lens, but I rather accept this over having to accept compromises in lens quality.

    And yes, for my taste I prefer an optical rangefinder big time over focus peeking of my Nex. EVF is fine for me for a small camera where the OVF would be to small, but for everything else I much prefer the OVF.
    Yes, rangefinder focusing means that lenses and body have to be calibrated very accuratly, but it is worth it IMO.

    I totally share the idea that Leica must not give up the simple and classic approach of the rangefinder M. And for those who want focus peeking etc. there are Sony Nex and A77 or later maybe A99 in full frame.

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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    Sure...feel free to come up with another model number.

    In my earlier post when I said 'faster' I was referring to the computer aspect: mostly displaying/zooming of images, just to clarify.
    HI Robert
    There are lots of improvements that nobody would object to:
    faster processing
    better LCD
    thinner body
    . . . and to be honest, almost anything that anybody can come up with that's useful . . . as long as you can just turn the thing on and use a mechanical rangefinder patch and set the aperture and shutter speed with nice M lenses - just like you always did!

    There's a kind of disconnect here (and certainly I'm not blaming you). But there seems to be a feeling amongst lots of people that if you like shooting with an M - then you're some kind of a luddite - whereas the truth of it is that most us around here who do like shooting with an M are quite capable of shooting with all sorts of different kit (and regularly do). I'm sure that I'm not alone in being quite happy to accept (and possibly enjoy) all sorts of benefits if I don't lose what I already have.

    What I really DON'T want is to have the M10 be a kind of full frame X100 - masses of pointless menu options and no way to tell accurately where the camera has focused!

    . . . . anyway, I shall stop here - boring to keep on banging the same old drum

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    ...
    What I really DON'T want is to have the M10 be a kind of full frame X100 - masses of pointless menu options and no way to tell accurately where the camera has focused!

    . . . . anyway, I shall stop here - boring to keep on banging the same old drum
    Let me bang it a few more times for you then:
    +100

    Leica: please keep the M an M. Don't make it into something else. The last time you tried that (the M5) it nearly killed you.

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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    Yes!

    model M10: evolution

    model ?x: revolution


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    Subscriber and Workshop Member MGrayson's Avatar
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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    There's a kind of disconnect here (and certainly I'm not blaming you). But there seems to be a feeling amongst lots of people that if you like shooting with an M - then you're some kind of a luddite -
    And a perception among a different set of people (largely, but not entirely absent from these fora) that if you don't like shooting with an M that you're a weak minded lazy insensitive unprofessional technophile with interest only in shooting cats and children who <sighs while shaking head sadly> will just never get it.

    I vote we drop both stereotypes.

    Matt

  46. #96
    Nilrem
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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    Do any other Leica M 9 owners long for an Exposure Lock button? Even my Hasselblad had one and it was a joy to be able to avoid backlighting for a series of shots simply by directing the lens downwards, pressing the EL button and shooting with backlighting taken care of. I sent a fax recently to Leica asking if one could be fitted : I will let you know when I hear from them. Even the Leica S2 has an EL button. On the M9 the shutter EL only works for one exposure. For a series of shots at the same exposure value , it is necessary to [1] On "A" , take a shot, pointing at a gray-card equivalent . [2] look at the LCD to read off what shutter speed had been selected. [3] Set this value on the shutter speed dial. This is a cumbersome system and surprising for a camera which is ideal [almost] for street shooting.
    The advantage of a separate EL button is that exposure can be reset rapidly if the lighting conditions change. A double- press unlocks and then resets exposure without lifting the camera to the eye.

  47. #97
    Subscriber Member Chuck Jones's Avatar
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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI Robert
    There are lots of improvements that nobody would object to:
    faster processing
    better LCD
    thinner body
    . . . and to be honest, almost anything that anybody can come up with that's useful . . . as long as you can just turn the thing on and use a mechanical rangefinder patch and set the aperture and shutter speed with nice M lenses - just like you always did!

    There's a kind of disconnect here (and certainly I'm not blaming you). But there seems to be a feeling amongst lots of people that if you like shooting with an M - then you're some kind of a luddite - whereas the truth of it is that most us around here who do like shooting with an M are quite capable of shooting with all sorts of different kit (and regularly do). I'm sure that I'm not alone in being quite happy to accept (and possibly enjoy) all sorts of benefits if I don't lose what I already have.

    What I really DON'T want is to have the M10 be a kind of full frame X100 - masses of pointless menu options and no way to tell accurately where the camera has focused!

    . . . . anyway, I shall stop here - boring to keep on banging the same old drum
    Jono, you and I see pretty much alike on this point. Yea, my M9 does have deficiencies, no question. It could use a megapixel boost, (24 MP being just about right in my book, but I wouldn't squawk if it was up to 36MP) and cleaner, better high ISO for low light situations. I shoot mine professionally, so the need to crop a vertical from a horizontal frame works best if I had a few more megapixels going in. Or cropping a two page spread from a vertical frame, an even more compelling case for more pixels. I shoot a lot of very low light situations professionally too, mostly music or clubs. A clean ISO 3200 or the dream of my life, ISO 6400 as clean as a whistle would force me to upgrade.

    But change the overall "feel" of the body, and you force me to change how I shoot. Get me outside my comfort zone at your great risk, as then it becomes something else, not my old friend the Leica M. I've invested years learning to master shooting M bodies, and frankly at my age have no desire to relearn it all over again - with some electronic bastardized edition.

    I like shooting manual. Yea, it was a bitch learning how to do that without having to think about it. I too went through thousands of "not quite right" frames. Film frames too, with the film cost and the processing extra. But after awhile, it started to sink in and I began to get slides I was proud of. In great part, honestly, because I no longer had to think about operating my camera, necessary adjustments came instinctively.

    That freed me to concentrate on what was important, correct focus and framing. Composition, color, tonal range. You can see all of those with an M body, as your just looking through a glass window uncorrected. I like that! I love being able to see beyond the frame, as it gives me composition options I don't see shooting my DSLR. For moving people, it's often that I recompose by the time I get the camera up. Judging the range by eye as i take in the scene, I can adjust the lens focus "in the close enough ballpark" as I am raising the camera to my eye. I don't need to look at the lens either, I know it's a quarter turn to the left. That freedom gives me the time to recompose, and still get the moment. I can't do that either with my DSLR.

    The present M9 is simple enough not to get in my way, but complex enough to yield excellent image quality as needed. The M9 is not about complex re-assignable button functions or "soft button" controls, it's about invest the time to get to know where everything is once, so you can forget about it being a camera. It's not going to change in the next "improved" model. If I don't like the changes they come out with in the M10, staying with my M9 is not going to be such a hardship.

  48. #98
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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilrem View Post
    Do any other Leica M 9 owners long for an Exposure Lock button? Even my Hasselblad had one and it was a joy to be able to avoid backlighting for a series of shots simply by directing the lens downwards, pressing the EL button and shooting with backlighting taken care of. I sent a fax recently to Leica asking if one could be fitted : I will let you know when I hear from them. Even the Leica S2 has an EL button. On the M9 the shutter EL only works for one exposure. For a series of shots at the same exposure value , it is necessary to [1] On "A" , take a shot, pointing at a gray-card equivalent . [2] look at the LCD to read off what shutter speed had been selected. [3] Set this value on the shutter speed dial. This is a cumbersome system and surprising for a camera which is ideal [almost] for street shooting.
    The advantage of a separate EL button is that exposure can be reset rapidly if the lighting conditions change. A double- press unlocks and then resets exposure without lifting the camera to the eye.
    Hmm. I wasn't aware that it didn't have an AEL button, but then, I haven't had an M8 or M9 to work with yet. You made me think a little ... when do I use it on my Ricoh GXR or Olympus SLRs?

    - Because the GXR (and other Live View cameras) shows the histogram live in the viewfinder on demand, I only rarely use an AEL button with it. I just dial in the appropriate EC and let the auto-exposure do its thing.

    - With the SLRs, because the optical finder cannot show a live histogram, I do use the AEL button to set exposure before reframing but only very occasionally. I more often have the AEL button programmed to lock the focus so that I can re-frame without disturbing my focus setting.

    - With either, if i'm going to be making a number of exposures in the same lighting and at the same exposure settings, I tend to switch to manual exposure, meter, and then just shoot. I find it simpler than remembering when to unlock the AEL. (With the Ricoh, there's a wonderful shortcut in Manual exposure mode: just tap the plus or minus button and the exposure setting will jump to the meter's recommended setting immediately, making it really "semi-automatic" metering.)

    The long and the short of it is that I'll most likely be in manual metering anyway for any situation where the light is constant, and I'm almost always doing "one shot only" shooting when I'm in an automated exposure mode. So the presence or lack of an AEL button is probably not of much importance to me on the M9.

    But it is interesting ... I didn't know that about the M9 ... learn something new every day.
    :-)

  49. #99
    Subscriber Member Chuck Jones's Avatar
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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilrem View Post
    Do any other Leica M 9 owners long for an Exposure Lock button? Even my Hasselblad had one and it was a joy to be able to avoid backlighting for a series of shots simply by directing the lens downwards, pressing the EL button and shooting with backlighting taken care of. I sent a fax recently to Leica asking if one could be fitted : I will let you know when I hear from them. Even the Leica S2 has an EL button. On the M9 the shutter EL only works for one exposure. For a series of shots at the same exposure value , it is necessary to [1] On "A" , take a shot, pointing at a gray-card equivalent . [2] look at the LCD to read off what shutter speed had been selected. [3] Set this value on the shutter speed dial. This is a cumbersome system and surprising for a camera which is ideal [almost] for street shooting.
    The advantage of a separate EL button is that exposure can be reset rapidly if the lighting conditions change. A double- press unlocks and then resets exposure without lifting the camera to the eye.
    Well, I guess you could do it that way. Or you could learn to use your camera set in the M mode, then simply change your shutter speed with the dial as needed, or the aperture if your not concerned with depth of focus. Personally, I'd rather avoid having to have yet another button to get in the mix.

  50. #100
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    Re: "Goodbye, Leica"

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Funny - it's one of the things I like about weddings - the adrenalin involved in getting those 'must have' shots - getting back from the church and finding that someone has moved the barrier and there are BMW X5s and Mercs parked all over the sweep in front of the house where the group shots were going to be . . . . . and it'll be dark in ten minutes . . . and it's starting to rain. It's no time to have a camera misbehave . . or to have made an esoteric decision about what to shoot!

    The beauty of the M9 though is that you can easily have it slung around your neck just in case it suddenly becomes the right thing. . . . .
    Exactly how I use it. Then it's the A900 slung over the shoulder while the M9 does its thing.

    -Marc

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