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Thread: My Pet Peeve for the Day

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    My Pet Peeve for the Day

    Forgive me, but I have a pet peeve. Where did this "capture" nonsense come from? It's not a "capture", it's a photograph.

    There. I said it. I feel better now. Back to the regularly scheduled program.

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    And photographs are made, not taken!



    Steve

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    Speaking only for myself - I use the term "capture(d)" a lot when describing my images. To me it brings a better sense of how I feel about the process of capturing landscape images. I feel I capture the feeling of the moment the reason that brought me to the place to begin with. It may be nuts but that's just me...

    I very rarely use the term photograph when speaking about one of our prints - I use the term image instead. To me it's a photograph until I print then once it's on the wall being displayed it's an image.

    I too believe that photographs are made not taken....

    That's just my 2¢

    Don
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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by 250swb View Post
    And photographs are made, not taken!



    Steve
    Interesting Steve - I rather prefer made as well . . . . but it sounds pretty pretentious around here.
    Taken is absolutely normal - capture / taken - I guess it makes sense.

    These days though I generally snap them (and get snaps as a result).
    all the best

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    In the trendy photo world, I doubt that "photograph" even comes in second. It appears to me that both "image" and "capture" come before it.

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    To be honest I never noticed nor was I sensitive to the terminology whilst 'making' 'photographs'
    I will be more careful!

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    It's because digital imaging is not photography. They are two separate mediums with increasingly independent terminologies.

    Film photography is a mechanical process that produces a physical object. Digital imaging is an electrical process that must be interpreted by software. The difference between digital and film is the difference between acoustic and visual worlds. Digital, like sound, cannot be touched. Does a tree make a noise if it falls in the woods and nobody is there to hear it? There must be an ear present to "capture" the sound. The visual world doesn't need to be seen to be known because it can still be felt and touched. The visual world, like a photograph, has a beginning and ending. The acoustic world, like a digital file, has no center and no boundaries. Any process that lacks boundaries is elusive and must be "captured" or contained.

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike M View Post
    It's because digital imaging is not photography.
    This could be tomorrow's pet peeve

    I use photons to make pictures. Sometimes the photons exite electrons in silver halide molecules on flexible film, sometimes they excite electrons in pixel wells on a silicon wafer. Either way I get pictures from photons.

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    I prefer "taken" to "made".

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Amin View Post
    I prefer "taken" to "made".
    You mean like primitive peoples sometimes think a camera can take something away with it in a literal sense, like soul? Interesting

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by doug View Post
    This could be tomorrow's pet peeve

    I use photons to make pictures. Sometimes the photons exite electrons in silver halide molecules on flexible film, sometimes they excite electrons in pixel wells on a silicon wafer. Either way I get pictures from photons.
    Hi Doug, I'll try and explain it another way...

    A truck or a bicycle will get a person from his home to the supermarket, but both are still different mediums. People ride bicycles and they drive trucks. The variations in terminology used are the result of the differences between the mediums.

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike M View Post
    Hi Doug, I'll try and explain it another way...

    A truck or a bicycle will get a person from his home to the supermarket, but both are still different mediums. People ride bicycles and they drive trucks. The variations in terminology used are the result of the differences between the mediums.
    No sale, sorry.

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by doug View Post
    No sale, sorry.
    Nobody is trying to sell you anything. They are different mediums whether you "buy it" or not.
    Last edited by Mike M; 11th October 2011 at 09:54. Reason: typo

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    Actually, it is a photochemical process and digital is a photoelectrical process. Both of which can result in physical objects by using mechanical processes.
    yes that is understood

    Just like a truck or a bicycle can get a person to the store...both are still different mediums.

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike M View Post
    Just like a truck or a bicycle can get a person to the store...both are still different mediums.
    Either way I get groceries.

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    I think capture is a term unique to amateurs on photo forums, workshops, etc etc. Never once have I had a client ask for me to send them my "captures." It's photographs, images, or files. Capture sounds too much like you were out hunting something... which in many cases with amateurs is a wild kitten or unruly sunset and just sounds silly.

    That said the term "shoot" or "shooting" is endemic to pros. I never really liked it (esp in relation to some of my dead subjects or to children) but it cuts to the quick and most everyone knows what you are talking about.

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    It comes from the days of freezing a frame from a video stream. Probably 1980s still video cameras and computer frame grabbers. Capture the image to memory, as in realtime response required.

    Freeze a frame, capture the image.

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    Capture, take, shoot,..... in another age long long ago it would have been 'steal, rape and slash' if applied to the hobbies of the time.

    Steve

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    so - what's wrong with 'snapping'

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    And this you want to debate...?

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    And this you want to debate...?


    No - not really

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by 250swb View Post
    You mean like primitive peoples sometimes think a camera can take something away with it in a literal sense, like soul? Interesting
    I mean like the way almost everyone says it.

    Photographers saying "make a photo" instead of "take a photo" is like Rastas saying "overstand" instead of "understand". I get the reason and have no objection, but in each case I prefer to go with the more prevalent English phrasing.

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Amin View Post
    I mean like the way almost everyone says it.

    Photographers saying "make a photo" instead of "take a photo" is like Rastas saying "overstand" instead of "understand". I get the reason and have no objection, but in each case I prefer to go with the more prevalent English phrasing.
    As one photography instructor explained it to me - he preferred using the term "make" a photograph rather than "take", as the term "make" connotes direct intent and forethought when creating a photograph. To take a photograph doesn't convey much of a process other than pressing the shutter.

    His point was, you should be consciously making a photograph every time - i.e. thinking exactly about what sort of image you want to create and executing to that vision.

    Yes - it may only be a matter of semantics but for me it helps me to remember the process and not just start snapping off shots (sorry Jono) without a well thought out intent.

    Different strokes...

    Cheers,
    -- Joe

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    <sarcasm>

    Everyone knows that REAL men TAKE photographs. Through the sheer force of their dynamic will, a photograph is ripped from the reluctant and unforgiving fabric of space and time. And then it's printed. Period.

    And no, real men don't "make" photographs, that's what retired librarians do in their senior-center Macramé class.

    For sure, they (REAL men) most certainly do not have anything to do with effete processes like "giclee".

    </sarcasm>

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    I try to leave the space-time continuum as I find it; so I just snap pictures and some of them are pretty neat then I print them.
    -bob

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by mountainjoe View Post
    His point was, you should be consciously making a photograph every time - i.e. thinking exactly about what sort of image you want to create and executing to that vision.
    Very well put Joe.

    Steve

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by mountainjoe View Post
    As one photography instructor explained it to me - he preferred using the term "make" a photograph rather than "take", as the term "make" connotes direct intent and forethought when creating a photograph. To take a photograph doesn't convey much of a process other than pressing the shutter.

    His point was, you should be consciously making a photograph every time - i.e. thinking exactly about what sort of image you want to create and executing to that vision.

    Yes - it may only be a matter of semantics but for me it helps me to remember the process and not just start snapping off shots (sorry Jono) without a well thought out intent.

    Different strokes...

    Cheers,
    +1

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    Ah, semantics ... the English language is SO much fun.

    Make means "to cause to happen," " ...to bring into being," which implies a deliberate decision to act or to create. A camera doesn't do anything without an action by the photographer.

    Take means "To get into one's possession by force, skill, or artifice." ... so that word also works, but seems less appropriate for a more creative action.

    Capture is a bit dicey. Its primary meaning is "A thing taken by force, surprise, or stratagem." It is a bit aggressive and militaristic in general tone and manner, but I guess could be applied to some photographers ... like Paparazzi

    So, if some think that digital images aren't photographs, then is it photographers making the digital images?

    Maybe we are digigraphers or pixigraphers ...

    -Marc

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    I try to leave the space-time continuum as I find it; so I just snap pictures and some of them are pretty neat then I print them.
    -bob
    Quote Originally Posted by mountainjoe View Post
    Yes - it may only be a matter of semantics but for me it helps me to remember the process and not just start snapping off shots (sorry Jono) without a well thought out intent.

    Different strokes...

    Cheers,
    I'm with Bob here - I try to think as little of the process as possible, I rely on my eye and my instinct, so, it's snaps for me.

    But on a slightly more serious note . . . whilst I can see the advantages of make but whatever the word is, it's not going to have the slightest impact on the way I take photographs.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    Well, my "take" from this thread, or what I "make" of it, if you like, is that I was, by reading it 'captured" for the few minutes it took to do so, and realized in a "snap", that... wait... what were we talking about?

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    Thumbs up Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Well, my "take" from this thread, or what I "make" of it, if you like, is that I was, by reading it 'captured" for the few minutes it took to do so, and realized in a "snap", that... wait... what were we talking about?

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    Actually, I believe that the only way to resolve a thorny issue like this is to get say a Nikon D700 or a D3s, and a Canon D7000 or 5D Mark II, and using a 50mm 1.4 on each, "take", "make", "snap" and "capture" an "image" or a "picture" or a "photograph". Then we post them all here, and see which is better! Just sayin'.

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    Actually, I believe that the only way to resolve a thorny issue like this is to get say a Nikon D700 or a D3s, and a Canon D7000 or 5D Mark II, and using a 50mm 1.4 on each, "take", "make", "snap" and "capture" an "image" or a "picture" or a "photograph". Then we post them all here, and see which is better! Just sayin'.
    No need for specific cameras, a simple device to show the difference in everyday real world testing would be to study the hat the photographer is wearing in each case. A baseball cap put on backwards would jibe with the 'snap' 'capture' and 'take' pic's and 'make' would be wearing a Sherlock Holmes style dearstalker to create his image.

    Steve

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    I've tried to use the term "make" for some years now. Still not comfortable with it.

    I guess it's my subconscious real man attitude objecting.

    At the end of the day, I think this is a topic that nobody but self-conscious photographers care to discuss. Hehe.
    Monochrome: http://mochro.com

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by 250swb View Post
    A baseball cap put on backwards would jibe with the 'snap' 'capture' and 'take' pic's and 'make' would be wearing a Sherlock Holmes style dearstalker to create his image.

    Steve
    Haha...I think you're on to something there

    How about photo vests? What would a guy wearing a photo vest say?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    At the end of the day, I think this is a topic that nobody but self-conscious photographers care to discuss. Hehe.
    Hi Lars, don't be so assuming Most people take pictures for their own enjoyment, but there are a few that make a living shooting for the audience. This isn't directed at you but is just a general observation:

    There's a few commercial photographers around here and they can probably relate to the situation of being hired by an art director and then realizing that he can't exactly explain what he wants. At this point, the photographer has to turn into a mind reader and be able to decipher what the client wants by just a few words or clues that might exist. A similar situation exists for content producers targeting a certain audience. These are good reasons to take theory seriously. Personally, I don't care what words people like/dislike and don't place value judgment. But the choices they make usually reveal something that can be useful when trying to make money from them.

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike M View Post
    Haha...I think you're on to something there

    How about photo vests? What would a guy wearing a photo vest say?



    Hi Lars, don't be so assuming Most people take pictures for their own enjoyment, but there are a few that make a living shooting for the audience. This isn't directed at you but is just a general observation:

    There's a few commercial photographers around here and they can probably relate to the situation of being hired by an art director and then realizing that he can't exactly explain what he wants. At this point, the photographer has to turn into a mind reader and be able to decipher what the client wants by just a few words or clues that might exist. A similar situation exists for content producers targeting a certain audience. These are good reasons to take theory seriously. Personally, I don't care what words people like/dislike and don't place value judgment. But the choices they make usually reveal something that can be useful when trying to make money from them.
    So... in that case, it would be to "conjure" the picture, or image, or photograph, or... Right?

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    So... in that case, it would be to "conjure" the picture, or image, or photograph, or... Right?
    What do you think, Lloyd? Certainly you can answer your own question?

    Not every person asks a question because he is interested in an answer. Some question as a setup to try and mock any person that might try to give an answer.

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    Well, I certainly can tell the difference between taking and making a photo in my own photography. I spent the last four weeks on an island in the Baltic, shooting an 8x10" portfolio of old wooden fishing boats. 25 exposures in four weeks. Lots of scouting, planning, testing compositions, timing visits to the different fishing camps with good lighting conditions. A purely contemplative, deliberate approach. Definitely in the "making" category. While there, I stayed with my brother's family, lots of social snapshots. Quite a contrast, and perhaps different terminology is warranted for.
    Monochrome: http://mochro.com

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike M View Post
    What do you think, Lloyd? Certainly you can answer your own question?

    Not every person asks a question because he is interested in an answer. Some question as a setup to try and mock any person that might try to give an answer.
    What is your point, Mike? Are you trying to bait me? I'm making light of this entire discussion because it's entirely a matter of semantics and opinion. If you like one term, use it. Every comment I made here is tongue in cheek. Sorry if that wasn't clear to you.

    Lars: Good point. Different alchemy in different circumstances.

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike M View Post
    There's a few commercial photographers around here and they can probably relate to the situation of being hired by an art director and then realizing that he can't exactly explain what he wants. At this point, the photographer has to turn into a mind reader and be able to decipher what the client wants by just a few words or clues that might exist. A similar situation exists for content producers targeting a certain audience. These are good reasons to take theory seriously. Personally, I don't care what words people like/dislike and don't place value judgment. But the choices they make usually reveal something that can be useful when trying to make money from them.
    Mike, AMEN brother! I wish I had a dollar for every AD or CD I have worked with over the years that wanted me to "Read Their Minds" and "Create" the Photograph they envision. Most seem to have plenty of creative vision, they just lack in the ability to translate that into a working verbal dialog! Verbal Communication 101 should be a required course in art school, in my opinion.

    Someone should issue "Captain America Official Decoder Rings" to every professional photographer, along with a Crystal Ball.... or the private phone number for The Amazing Kreskin!

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    Well, I certainly can tell the difference between taking and making a photo in my own photography. I spent the last four weeks on an island in the Baltic, shooting an 8x10" portfolio of old wooden fishing boats. 25 exposures in four weeks. Lots of scouting, planning, testing compositions, timing visits to the different fishing camps with good lighting conditions. A purely contemplative, deliberate approach. Definitely in the "making" category. While there, I stayed with my brother's family, lots of social snapshots. Quite a contrast, and perhaps different terminology is warranted for.
    Yep. Completely agree Lars. I laugh at even the thought of someone trying to "take" anything shooting an 8x10

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Jones View Post

    Someone should issue "Captain America Official Decoder Rings" to every professional photographer, along with a Crystal Ball.... or the private phone number for The Amazing Kreskin!
    haha!...I love that idea

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    Re: My Pet Peeve for the Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    Well, I certainly can tell the difference between taking and making a photo in my own photography. I spent the last four weeks on an island in the Baltic, shooting an 8x10" portfolio of old wooden fishing boats. 25 exposures in four weeks. Lots of scouting, planning, testing compositions, timing visits to the different fishing camps with good lighting conditions. A purely contemplative, deliberate approach. Definitely in the "making" category. While there, I stayed with my brother's family, lots of social snapshots. Quite a contrast, and perhaps different terminology is warranted for.


    I concur!

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