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Thread: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

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    Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    OK, after approx. 400 shots on my DMR, I think I have a sharpness problem.

    I had over-sharpened my initial batch of shots, I think (now);
    After revisiting all files, I believe there is a sharpness issue, looking at the file without any sharpening, they look "crappy".

    I am posting four images incl. a 100% crop of 900x900 for each one:

    - first image, f2.8, 1/1000, ISO 100, 60mm macro
    - second image, f8, 1/1500, ISO 400, 60mm macro
    - third image, f1.4, 1/180s, ISO 100 ... 60mm macro (see next post)
    - fourth image, f5.6, 1/125, ISO 400 ... 35mm-lux (see next post)
    All files are processed in C1 4.1 with sharpening turned off.

    Do you agree?

    Possible reasons:
    - DMR ... distance issue; needs shimming or similar
    - Focus screen; but images 1-3 have been shot with the stock-DMR focus screen; image 4 with the Maxwell screen, and shows same problem. I believe the screen is lying correctly in its frame (but who knows...).

    Is Leica-NJ capable of investigating - and if necessary - fixing this?
    Or would the R9-DMR need to go to Solms? In that case, it is advisable to ship directly to speed up the process?

    How about the lenses ... they would not need to be checked out, I guess; three lenses all show the same problem (60mm, 35mm-lux, 180mmf2.8).

    Thank You for any advise; not happy right now....

    Peter

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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    Two more images with crops;

    The building in Chelsea Manhatten looks good in the overall view, but it was noon, harsh sunlight, high contrast - that fooled me first; the unsharpened crop does not look that great.

    The red machine looks really crappy in the crop.

    Focusing itself seems easy, is not a real "operator" challenge.

    Peter

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    Senior Member EH21's Avatar
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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    I've not experienced the trouble you have but I'd think a well sorted DMR could do better than that. Definitely NJ can handle this and will do it more quickly if you walk it in. Hopefully some others will chime in but I know that they can adjust the camera to fit the DMR in terms of focus, etc.

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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    This is not up to the DMR s capabilities. I know my R9/DMR went thru several rounds of adjustments to the focusing screen position before the original owner was satisfied. NJ can definitely do this as they have a senior technician from germany that was on the original R8 development team.

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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    If the diopter is set correctly, the back attached securely to the R8/9 frame and is clean and all three lenses have the issue with the stock focus screen, I'd think a trip to NJ is in order. The odds of all three lenses being wonky would be slim to say the least.

    I would the basic 45 deg angle shots of a focus chart/ruler via tripod first to see if it is a back/front focus issue (hard to tell from the jpegs) or an overall softness problem. Might narrow things down.

    What you're seeing is no where near what a DMR should deliver.
    Last edited by robmac; 31st August 2008 at 04:18.

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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    It sounds certainly like the focusing screen is out of placement. The DMR should deliver a lot better than that. This is something that you need to take out the screen and put back in again and make sure your clicked in place and just do a simple focus test. Find a intersection on a 45 degree angle of a side walk crack. Focus on the middle and see if you are back or front focusing. make sure your diopter is okay also. This may just take a few tries. Been there and have the T shirt. Or buy a micro prism screen which I found better on the DMR. Brightscreen sells them. I would try a few things before sending to NJ
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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    OK, thanks, folks;

    I will reset the focus screen, check the diopter, put the baby on the tripod for more testing and post back here.

    For education: What effect has an incorrectly located focus screen?
    A front/back focus shift?

    I am wondering why the shot with the building in Chelsea is not sharp; it is at f8 and far away; wouldn't DOF compensate there even for a misaligned focus screen?

    Peter

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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    Make sure you test on a tripod as well. I am 71 with shaky hands and it is sometimes hard for me to avoid camera shake. Tension can create the same issue. The only way to know for sure is to put the camera on a tripod to see if the sharpness improves in a major way.

    Woody

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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    To get accurate manual focus, the distance from the lens mount to the sensor must be IDENTICAL to the distance from the mount to the focus screen.

    I don't recall if the R8/9 has shims (don't seem to remember any), but in a camera with FS shims (40D, 5D, etc), you need thinner shims (move FS back from sensor) to cure front focus and thicker (move FS closer to sensor) to cure back focus.

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    Senior Member doug's Avatar
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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    I don't recall if the R8/9 has shims (don't seem to remember any), but in a camera with FS shims (40D, 5D, etc), you need thinner shims (move FS back from sensor) to cure front focus and thicker (move FS closer to sensor) to cure back focus.
    The R8/R9 do not use shims. I haven't opened the R8 or R9 but if it's anything like the Leicaflexes the screen's position and planar alignment is adjusted with adjustment screws. On the Leicaflexes the screen can be adjusted so that it's in precise focus at all point of the screen, not just in the center. Shims are a shortcut used by some camera makers to cheapen assembly costs and from my perspective as a mechanical engineer this design/assembly technique is one of the things that separate consumer equipment from the good stuff.

    Regarding the sharpness problem, I agree the DMR should do much better than this. Are these test photos from RAW files? How processed? The ruler at 45 degrees should help narrow the problem down.
    Last edited by doug; 31st August 2008 at 11:24.

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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    OK, I run focus tests:

    - Tripod
    - Focus chart taped on table (A4/letter size)
    - Remote capture to Flexcolor
    - I checked that I am not closer than the minimum focus distance
    - All processing with sharpening to zero
    - Still using Maxwell screen (like yesterday)
    - Checked diopter, standard setting is best for me (I wear glasses).

    I tested three lenses:
    - 35mm-lux at f1.4
    - 60mm macro at f2.8
    - 180mm APO at f2.8.

    I post images from 35 first (two different runs), then 60, then 180.

    Take a look; interesting result - what is your conclusion?

    Peter

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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    Now the 60mm macro results;

    again, two independent runs at slightly different angles.

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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    Now the 180mm APO result:

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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    Observations:

    a) The 35-lux is a heavy front-focusing sample; about 4cm when shooting this test (test distance was a little bit further away than the closest focus distance of 50cm).

    b) The 60 and 180 seem to do OK.

    Nevertheless they are not really sharp either!
    ... I post below another tripod comparison from today - R9/DMR/60mm-macro at f2.8 and M8 50mm-lux at f2.8 (shot so that they covered approx. same amount FOV). First file is full image with DMR, then DMR crop, then M8 crop. The M8 looks better (although not great either; it has not been at DAG yet like my other M8 lenses).

    What are the conclusions beyond that the 35 needs adjustment?

    Does this allow to say anything about the focus screen?

    Peter

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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    Your last test showed close to symmetrical performance. But then you are at nearly parallel to the test chart so it is harder to tell if there is a front or back focus problem. It still could be the focusing screen IMHO. As Guy said earlier, make sure the screen is seated then "CLICKS" into place. I sometimes found there was a mushy closure and this usually meant the screen was not properly in place and results showed it.

    Woody

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    Senior Member doug's Avatar
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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitnaros View Post
    OK, I run focus tests:

    - Tripod
    - Focus chart taped on table (A4/letter size)
    - Remote capture to Flexcolor
    - I checked that I am not closer than the minimum focus distance
    - All processing with sharpening to zero
    - Still using Maxwell screen (like yesterday)
    - Checked diopter, standard setting is best for me (I wear glasses).

    I tested three lenses:
    - 35mm-lux at f1.4
    - 60mm macro at f2.8
    - 180mm APO at f2.8.
    If I'm reading these test photos correctly, the viewscreen and the sensor are not in the same virtual plane, whether that's because the screen isn't in the right spot or the sensor, I can't tell. Or it could be the mirror isn't exactly at 45 degrees to the screen and sensor. The one thing you can do is be sure the screen is properly seated in its frame and clicks in properly.

    What I see is that the 35 is farthest out of focus, the 60 less so, and the 180 the least. This is consistent with a longer lens-to-sensor distance than lens-to-screen distance. This would suggest that the screen is too low, i.e., it's not properly seated in the frame.

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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    Something is out of wack - I could focus a 180/2 APO at MFD with a $600 Canon 30D and Katzeye screen dead on - with any of those lenses, especially the 180 and on a DMR, you should be CLEARLY seeing the texture and fibers in the paper at the focus point.

    Start with Woody's suggestion (using stock screen) and work your way thru the 'image chain' to try and isolate. Make sure your at roughly a 45deg angle to the test chart.

    The tests would seem to indicate a tendency to front focus, but the 180 shot is just mush.

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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    I changed back to the DMT stock screen - same result.

    The screen snapped into the frame with a clear sound; so that must be OK.

    Peter

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    Senior Member doug's Avatar
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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    Also check to be sure that the sensor is in the correct plane. The sensor's carrier has a bit of 'float' w.r.t the back and it's supposed to press against the film rails so that it is positioned in the correct plane. Be sure there are no obstructions that would come between the film rails and the sensor's carrier. If this is OK and the problem persists it's time to call Leica in NJ.

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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    I checked the back, took it off and on again, no difference in images.

    I'll try to drop it off on Tue at Leica NJ - I am only 30 car minutes away.
    --

    General question:
    If the focus screen is not in the right position, does it create uniform unsharpness at all f-stops and focal lengths, or what is the consequence?

    Just want to learn at least something from this episode....
    (spent today 5h testing, arghhh).

    Peter

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    Senior Member doug's Avatar
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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitnaros View Post
    If the focus screen is not in the right position, does it create uniform unsharpness at all f-stops and focal lengths
    No. It causes a focus error, seen most clearly with a wide lens & fast aperture. The error will still be present with longer lenses and smaller apertures but not quite as obvious.

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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    Sorry to see this Peter, but I agree, something is not right. That 180/2.8 should be razor sharp (it is my lens, so I know it is capable of it), and wide open it looked really soft. Did you buy your R9 new? This looks like either some sort of misalignment of the focusing screen or sensor, or god forbid, a misalignment of the lens mount. I had this problem because I bought my R9 used, and it turned out the previous owner had dropped it (and apparently not bothered to tell KEH...it was not obvious that the camera had been damaged), which had knocked the lens mount out of alignment, causing a general softness to the images.
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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    P.S. The next time we meet, you are welcome to try the DMR on my R9 and see if it makes any difference...
    My photos are here: http://www.stuartrichardson.com and more recent work here: http://stuartrichardson.tumblr.com/ Please have a look at my book!
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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    Thanks for the kind offer, Stuart.

    I bought both R9 and DMR used; dealers still ask close to $3000 for a new R9, which is kind of crazy these days, and I am not willing to pay.

    My R9 certainly looks like new; I cannot see any signs of usage. But who knows, you are right, what kind of history it has. Maybe it needs some kind of adjustment and the previous owner got fed up and sold it.

    But since both pieces of equipment look very well overall, I am optimistic that Leica will be able to straighten it out without too much hassle. Then its all rock-and-roll and will put some serious mileage on the equipment. I keep you posted for sure.

    Peter

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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitnaros View Post
    OK, thanks, folks;


    I am wondering why the shot with the building in Chelsea is not sharp; it is at f8 and far away; wouldn't DOF compensate there even for a misaligned focus screen?

    Peter
    Peter:

    With the DMR, you need to focus on what you want in focus and not trust DOF. DOF is fine for smaller prints, but with pixel peeping you posted above, you shots will not look sharp.

    Some lenses are also off at infinity with the DMR. Your 60mm may need the infinity set if you were shooting with it at the infinity stop. The tolerances are much finer with the digital sensor than with film, so a lens in spec but on the wrong side of the tolerances may not focus all the way to infinity. I have had at least three Leica lenses that were off a touch at infinity. When they were correct, the difference was night and day.

    You also need to shoot a carefully focused scene with a tripod and mirror lockup. You 60mm Macro will be at its peak performance at about f5.6.

    Robert

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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    Peter:

    I just read the thread a little further and saw your other tests. My guess is you screen is in wrong. The DMR screens are a tighter fit into the frame than the stock screen, so it is easy to not have it in the frame propery before closing the frame. I suppose you could even bend something in the frame if you try too hard to close it when a screen isn't in right.

    As for the R9, I think there is also an adjustment for the mirror down position, which would affect focus.

    Robert

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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    I hear you, Robert, regarding the screen;

    I felt that the Maxwell screen was a little bit tighter to put in.
    The DMR Leica screen was easy to mount.

    The focus screen actually sits on two tiny noses that are on the underside of the left and right edge of a screen. That seems to be on purpose.

    You are also right that the lenses can have additional issues; don't understand why the 35-lux front-focuses so strongly and whether this is related to a potential focus screen issue or not.

    I believe the prudent thing is to drop off tomorrow both DMR/R9 and my two lenses (60 and 35-lux) at Leica NJ; if it is indeed a focus screen issue, they should be able to fix it quickly. And they can check out my lenses too at the same time...

    Peter

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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    Have the exact same problem. It make perfectly sense that the focus is more off on the 35mm than on a tele lens; not related to the DOF of the lens, but because of the lesser tolerance in a 35mm where then lens glass and focus is closer to the sensor.

    Good luck with the Leica NJ visit.

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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    I think if it were just the screen being off, then at least part of the image should be sharp even if not the area you focused on. Something else must be going on to get images that are tack sharp at least in part of the frame. Most likely some kind of alignment issue.

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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    Hey Thorsten,
    So did you do any testing yourself? Do you know where the problem sits in your setup - is it the screen?

    I have suffered through some focus issues with the M8; it was hard to pin down with the M, since the effect was not as distinct as here and now with the DMR. That left always the question of "operator error" open.

    Finally took a heart and sent my whole M equipment - camera and four lenses - to DAG here in the US. Came back and what a relief - now my 35-lux-M is tack sharp wide open, and so is my 28-cron. Only the 75-lux can trouble me, but then it is indeed operator error...

    Peter

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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    No, I haven't done that much testing as it can be the sensor placement, the focus screen or the mirror. And of course "operator error" which it is not.
    I have an R9 with Brightscreen focusing screen, and right now the DMR sits on a R8 with ordinary R8 focusing screen which has a bit less backfocus; not the screen but the whole setup, either it is the sensor placement, the focusing screen or the mirror.
    It's so small adjustments it has to be done by Leica or some technician. You go nuts trying to figure it out yourself. And as for focusing screens, there could be small tolerances between different brands, though I think my Brightscreen is a Leica screen modified.

    I have had the same focusing problems on my two Leicaflex SL which, in turn, has been off focus. Again, this could be mainly the mirror as the focusing screen sits tight in those. Or the whole body out of adjustment from bumps, etc. But what I did then was just changed camera and after a while the one sitting might have changed back in focus! Anyway, that is a historic problem now, more or less, could also have been the film plane - and in some instances, simply the user.

    The good thing about the digital age and the DMR is that you can test and know rather instantly what the result is of your tests. So for sure the problem is in the camera why it is simply a matter of getting the whole camera adjusted.

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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    "Patient" dropped off at Leica NJ today incl. my two lenses - 35-lux and 60-macro.

    I hope its a simple case (say indeed the focus screen), comes back quickly, and I can get going again; I also have a 15mm/f2.8 coming, which should be a fire cracker!

    I keep you posted on the outcome.

    Peter

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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    The 15 Elmarit is in the same class as the 180 2.0, 280 4.0 and the 35-70 Elmarit. All are exotic and all are amazing.

    Woody

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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    The 180/f2.0 must be nearly impossible to focus wide open - ?

    I think I go for the 180/2.8 a bit later.

    Pete

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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    Peter

    Au Contraire mon ami! The 180 2.0 is one of the easiest of the R lenses to focus! The focus range is very short and when you reach the point of focus it just "snaps" into the proper focus. This is one of the reasons I use the matte screens to assist me. When the image is in proper focus, the snap on the matte screen is so dramatic that one needs not worry further. It is in focus (unless the screen itself is not in registration!!)

    JMHO AND YMMV

    woody

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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    Yes, you are right, Woody!

    I just got "scared" by the thought of the razor thin DOF; but focusing should be very delightful and easy, got it.

    Peter

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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyspedden View Post
    The 180 2.0 is one of the easiest of the R lenses to focus! The focus range is very short and when you reach the point of focus it just "snaps" into the proper focus. This is one of the reasons I use the matte screens to assist me. When the image is in proper focus, the snap on the matte screen is so dramatic that one needs not worry further.
    One of the joys of a camera designed for manual focus

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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyspedden View Post
    Peter

    Au Contraire mon ami! The 180 2.0 is one of the easiest of the R lenses to focus! The focus range is very short and when you reach the point of focus it just "snaps" into the proper focus. This is one of the reasons I use the matte screens to assist me. When the image is in proper focus, the snap on the matte screen is so dramatic that one needs not worry further. It is in focus (unless the screen itself is not in registration!!)

    JMHO AND YMMV

    woody
    My FAVORITE R lens is the 180 F2. I agree focus was very easy with this lens. Rarely missed
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    My FAVORITE R lens is the 180 F2. I agree focus was very easy with this lens. Rarely missed
    Isn't your Avatar shot with the 180mm f2?

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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    Hey Guy,
    Do you still have a few 180/2.0 shots around that you can post here?

    As others have stated, too bad that the DMR bible has gone...

    Pete

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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    I know I will get flak for this, but I think the 180/2 is a nonsensical lens choice unless you make a living shooting concerts at night from the 20th row on a tripod. The 180/2.8 APO is dramatically cheaper, dramatically smaller, dramatically lighter, and has essentially the same performance, only one stop slower. Even Erwin Puts admits this: http://www.imx.nl/photo/leica/lenses...es/page88.html

    He characterizes the 180/2 as a "tripod only lens". He also says, "The 2.8/180APO is on the same level of image performance if not better." While he is many things, he is trustworthy when it comes to the technical characteristics of Leica lenses. The 180/2.8 APO is just so much more practical. For all the extra expense, size, weight and detrimental effect on handheld use, all you get is another stop. BAD DECISION.

    Ok, back under the bridge...
    My photos are here: http://www.stuartrichardson.com and more recent work here: http://stuartrichardson.tumblr.com/ Please have a look at my book!
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    Senior Member doug's Avatar
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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    The 180/2.8 APO is just so much more practical.
    Mine should arrive any day now

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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    Stuart:

    The extra stop makes a difference when shooting in lower light. It is the difference between shooting sports at 800iso or 1600iso on the DMR. It also focuses quicker than the 2.8 APO.

    I have had all three 180mm APOs and after reading Mr Puts' report and doing my own tests, sold the 2.8 APO and kept the 3.4 and f2. In my case, I read into his report that if shooting at f5.6 or so the old f3.4 APO is pretty close to the other two. It is also quite a bit lighter. So when I need speed, I use the f2, when I want a lighter tele to carry, rather than the big zoom, I carry the 180mm f3.4.

    In regards to the tripod comment, I think he means you will only get the performance the lens is capable of at f2 if you use a tripod, or I suppose shoot in bright daylight at 1/8000th.

    Robert

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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    Rob -- I should have tempered my response a bit, but I stand buy it. You are obviously a special case since you are a sports shooter who often works in low light. For the vast majority of people, it makes little to no sense to buy a lens that costs 3000 dollars more, weighs more than double (5.5lb versus 2.1lb), takes 100mm front filters versus 67mm and has no advantage (in fact a disadvantage) in handholdability, despite its extra stop. Add to this the fact that their performance is essentially identical, if not slightly in favor of the elmarit, and you have a lens that should only appeal to specialists such as yourself. Too often, however people just look at it and say, WOW, that's a big lens! Oh, and fast is better than slow. Summicron is better than Elmarit. I guess I just want to prevent people from blowing 8000 dollars on a lens that, while extraordinary, is less practical and performs worse for 99% of buyers (if not because of its miniscule disadvantages optically, then for its extra bulk and weight make it difficult to handhold, tires you out from carrying it around on the camera leading to more shake and so on). Anyway, I just think that this lens is one of the prime examples of lens fetishism in the Leica camp.

    WOW, that was a rant! I am sorry, I will stop now.

    Doug -- I hope you enjoy your Elmarit. I know you will put it to good use!
    My photos are here: http://www.stuartrichardson.com and more recent work here: http://stuartrichardson.tumblr.com/ Please have a look at my book!
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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    I guess I just want to prevent people from blowing 8000 dollars on a lens that, while extraordinary, is less practical and performs worse for 99% of buyers (if not because of its miniscule disadvantages optically, then for its extra bulk and weight make it difficult to handhold, tires you out from carrying it around on the camera leading to more shake and so on). Anyway, I just think that this lens is one of the prime examples of lens fetishism in the Leica camp.

    WOW, that was a rant! I am sorry, I will stop now.

    Doug -- I hope you enjoy your Elmarit. I know you will put it to good use!
    Stuart:

    It is for the reasons above I went for a $375 180mm f3.4 APO for my scenic/travel and sold my f2.8 APO. I also was an early adopter of 180mm APO Summicron and it probably cost me less than what the 180mm APO f2.8 sells for now.

    In reality, I only use the 180mm APO Summicron a few times a year, but with the used prices on R glass the way they are, it is not worth selling it. It also has a large image circle approaching medium format, so I am hoping that if the new R is larger than full frame, it will be adaptable.

    Robert

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    Senior Member EH21's Avatar
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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    I had the 180mm f/3.4 telyt ... its very sharp and also as mentioned lightweight, and for the cost a really great value, but I didn't like the bokeh as much as some of my other leica glass so sold it.

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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    I think Stuart has a point there with the 2.8 being the better choice for most use cases.

    Robert, you are in your own "focus and hand-hold ability class", I don't know how you do it ... from what I saw in your football and hockey images. So I guess for me a lens much heavier than the 180/2.8 would be harder to hold, carry around and consequently hold steady without mono- or tripod.

    Although, R lens prices have come down significantly and will continue to sink is my prediction. As you saw from my other posts, I believe that Photokina will be a real let down for R users. Then some more folks will sell off and only a few will hold on to their R equipment. Maybe I am wrong, we all know soon.

    One of the 180's is tempting.
    I got so far 15mm/2.8, 35-lux and 60-macro. I plan to add a 80-lux, and maybe one of the 180's. If prices go down, the 21-35 is anther option to consider.

    Robert, EH21 - what is the bokeh of the 180/3.4 like?

    Pete

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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    Quote Originally Posted by EH21 View Post
    I had the 180mm f/3.4 telyt ... its very sharp and also as mentioned lightweight, and for the cost a really great value, but I didn't like the bokeh as much as some of my other leica glass so sold it.
    I certainly wouldn't use the 3.4 version for shooting portraits. It is much better at more distant scenics.

    Robert

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    Senior Member EH21's Avatar
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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    Pete,
    Just did a search....my version of the 180 f/3.4 didn't have a ROM and I didn't keep it for very long so this was pre lightroom so I didn't keyword my shots with the lenses in flexcolor so sorry to say I can't pull up an shots for you. It is a very sharp lens at near infinity and is so by design if you read Putt's book. The original design was used for military reconnaissance. This makes it a good lens for landscape type work, where you need a lot of detail and are going for big DOF which makes bokeh less of a concern.

    If you want a lens in that focal length that does have really nice bokeh and works equally well close up and at a distance try the 80-200mm f/4 zoom. Its one of my favorite leica lenses. Always happy to see the imagery it produces and I also use it on my Canon 5D too. Its so good, I no longer contemplate either the 180/2.8 apo or 180/2.

    Eric

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    Senior Member doug's Avatar
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    Re: Have a probem -sharpness - DMR or what reason?

    Quote Originally Posted by EH21 View Post
    If you want a lens in that focal length that does have really nice bokeh and works equally well close up and at a distance try the 80-200mm f/4 zoom.
    I agree, it's a very sweet lens. OTOH I've been wondering if there are 'zoom' people and 'prime' people. I tend to use the 80-200 almost always at 200, and I can't use the 1.4x APO extender on it, so I'm giving the 180 f/2.8 APO a try. The one I received today is an early model, converted to play nice with the 1.4x APO Extender. My UET-R extension tube makes it a near-macro lens with a close-up range with barely any overlap with the normal focussing range. And- the view through the SL viewfinder with this lens is amazing

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