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Thread: M8 and TTL flash (SF24D)

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    M8 and TTL flash (SF24D)

    I must say I really like what they've done to the TTL flash using the SF24D. Shot a bunch today with it, and must say it's really quite excellent. The preflash is now very quick.

    I shot all evening in A mode (camera, not flash), the camera set to slow flash sync 1/8s, and 2nd curtain. If you're not familiar with this setting, it tells the camera to use the flash for fill, but only down to 1/8s. There's also a 1/30 limit if you're less comfortable shooting handheld at these speeds. Most of the time, at ISO 320, I'd get the ambient light slightly underexposed, occasionally it would meter at 1/12 or 1/15 for a fuller exposure. I swapped some between white balancing for the flash (Daylight) and half way between ambient and flash (AWB). I think Daylight worked better in general since my subjects were mainly flash lit and WB really shows most of all in skin hues.

    Some of the time I shot with an SFill, some without. Enclosed are some shots, run through C1 Pro. I'm really quite pleased with the results - these shots took just about zero effort on my behalf.

    Leica really nailed it with firmware 1.110 IMO! I doubt I'll be shooting much in A (flash) mode from now on!





    This one was shot with a CV12, wide angle lens on flash, and SFill. Since the flash was on the camera I had to kind of wing it a bit...



    It even works well for B&W conversions! We can all make our friendly musician look like they're in some smoky lounge in Memphis! Or maybe not...


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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: M8 and TTL flash (SF24D)

    Very nice set Jan! I have avoided getting the SF24, but your images AND explanation of how you use it has just put it on my "get it now" list.

    Thanks for sharing this!
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: M8 and TTL flash (SF24D)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Very nice set Jan! I have avoided getting the SF24, but your images AND explanation of how you use it has just put it on my "get it now" list.

    Thanks for sharing this!
    Jack,
    I am planning on bringing it to Moab if you want to play with it a bit.

    Jan, these look really nice. When I get back to NY I want to sit down with camera and flash in hand and reread this thread!

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    Re: M8 and TTL flash (SF24D)

    Another thing folks, a small piece cut out from an amber CC gel will fit nicely between the flash window and the wide angle attachment, and can be used to bring the flash WB closer to ambient incandescent. Then set the camera to 3400K (or whatever the gel temp is) or take a custom WB shot off a gray card. If you get the gel really close to 2800-3000K you'll only need to do this once, then you can shoot all day indoors with the same WB, with or without flash turned on. This little trick will help blend the different illuminants better. In fluorescent ambient, a green gel can help. Hmm, perhaps I should get a couple more spare WA attachments and permanently attach a gel to the inside on each...

    I should experiment a bit more, but I get the feeling that 2nd curtain sync makes the flash quicker. There's a minimum time between the two flashes probably, and with 2nd curtain and 1/8s it can perhaps open the shutter immediately after the preflash... Need to play with it more to see what the deal is.

    I also haven't really figured out how the flash behaves if I set the camera to 1/15 and dial in an exposure adjustment. I couldn't find a way to adjust the flash exposure directly (changing it on the flash in TTL doesn't appear to have any effect in the A camera mode) - need to play around with this some more. But it did a pretty darn good job anyway so who's complaining!

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    Re: M8 and TTL flash (SF24D)

    I tried this out tonight. My husband still blinks about 2 out of 3 times with the pre-flash.
    It does seem to be much improved and the exposures were very nice. Next I'm going to try putting it in my hand (ala, Sean).

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: M8 and TTL flash (SF24D)

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Jack,
    I am planning on bringing it to Moab if you want to play with it a bit.

    Jan, these look really nice. When I get back to NY I want to sit down with camera and flash in hand and reread this thread!
    Great Terry --- I'd like that!
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Digital Dude
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    Thumbs up Re: M8 and TTL flash (SF24D)

    Damn it! Every time I think Iím done with buying accessories, somebody goes ní post something like this. Now, I guess Iíll have to order the SF24 for the holidaysí.
    Regards,

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: M8 and TTL flash (SF24D)

    I have it but never tried it like Jan set his up. New trick for the old dog , gotta love it
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: M8 and TTL flash (SF24D)

    Guy,
    Do you have a radio transmitter set-up that works on the M8 with the SF24D, so that you can hold the flash in your hand? I have mine on a wrist strap, but I'm using the Nikon cord and it would be so much nicer to not have them connected with the cord.

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    Re: M8 and TTL flash (SF24D)

    No I don't but I think I could with my Microsync. Just need to figure the hardware on the flash part to connect
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: M8 and TTL flash (SF24D)

    when i looked at he microsync's, they had a clunky large size jack for the slave unit, so i went with pocketwizards

    my 580's need a flash unit hot shoe adapter which has a mini-jack female ended cord, that gets a gender-changer adapter, and then plugs into the Pocket wizard receiver end. the camera shoe gets the pocket wizard transmitter. it works, but the convenience compared to not using a cord is questionable

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    Re: M8 and TTL flash (SF24D)

    when i looked at he microsync's, they had a clunky large size jack for the slave unit, so i went with pocketwizards

    my 580's need a flash unit hot shoe adapter which has a mini-jack female ended cord, that gets a gender-changer adapter, and then plugs into the Pocket wizard receiver end. the camera shoe gets the pocket wizard transmitter. it works, but the convenience compared to not using a cord is questionable. not to mention the cost of two wizards

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    dudedog
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    Re: M8 and TTL flash (SF24D)

    I've been using the M8/SF24D combination for about 5 months. When I first started using it, I was very disappointed with the number of "blinks" I was getting in TTL/GNC Mode. The latest firmware upgrade made it better, but still way too many [over 50%].

    So at a party one night, I just attached a 35mm Cron, set the ISO to 320, set the aperture to 5.6, set the shutter speed to "A", and set the "Auto Slow Synch" to "Lens Dependent" [it goes down as low as 1/30 automatically with the 35mm lens].

    Then I setup the SF24D: Set the mode to "A" instead of TTL/GNC, ISO to 320, Aperture to 5.6, AND +or-/P to "-1". This setup gives up to 29 feet of coverage, no pre-flash, and the "-1" setting takes away most of the "flash look".

    This combination has worked very well for me without hardly any "blinks". The 35mm DOF keeps all the important stuff in focus at 5.6, the flash "fills" nicely, and the 1/30th shutter speed gets as much ambient light as possible.

    Just another way to skin the cat!

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    Re: M8 and TTL flash (SF24D)

    Quote Originally Posted by dudedog View Post
    Just another way to skin the cat!
    Thanks I'm going to try this...
    Mike

    website under construction

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    Re: M8 and TTL flash (SF24D)

    Quote Originally Posted by dudedog View Post
    I've been using the M8/SF24D combination for about 5 months. When I first started using it, I was very disappointed with the number of "blinks" I was getting in TTL/GNC Mode. The latest firmware upgrade made it better, but still way too many [over 50%].

    So at a party one night, I just attached a 35mm Cron, set the ISO to 320, set the aperture to 5.6, set the shutter speed to "A", and set the "Auto Slow Synch" to "Lens Dependent" [it goes down as low as 1/30 automatically with the 35mm lens].

    Then I setup the SF24D: Set the mode to "A" instead of TTL/GNC, ISO to 320, Aperture to 5.6, AND +or-/P to "-1". This setup gives up to 29 feet of coverage, no pre-flash, and the "-1" setting takes away most of the "flash look".

    This combination has worked very well for me without hardly any "blinks". The 35mm DOF keeps all the important stuff in focus at 5.6, the flash "fills" nicely, and the 1/30th shutter speed gets as much ambient light as possible.

    Just another way to skin the cat!
    This sounds very promising. I have shot events with the SF24D on a bracket and bounced (also had a diffuser on it). I had it set to A, but I didn't have the M8 set to "Auto slow sync" and "second curtain". My effort was pretty successful, but I still was not totally satisfied. The SF24D is not really powerful enough for much bouncing.

    I find the subject blinking caused by the combo in GNC/TTL and camera mounted to be unacceptable. I'm also going to keep working on using Sean Reid's technique of wearing the SF24D on a wrist strap and swinging it into my hand for the shot. That requires a Nikon cord connection or radio trigger and I haven't mastered the technique yet.

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    Re: M8 and TTL flash (SF24D)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cindy Flood View Post
    I tried this out tonight. My husband still blinks about 2 out of 3 times with the pre-flash.
    It does seem to be much improved and the exposures were very nice. Next I'm going to try putting it in my hand (ala, Sean).
    Yeah, I've found this endemic to TTL on any digital. But the M8 used to be so slow the subject might actually move or start walking away after the preflash.

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    Re: M8 and TTL flash (SF24D)

    Merry Christmas

    Well i tried this today with the setting at 1/8 second. On Auto camera , flash on auto
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: M8 and TTL flash (SF24D)

    Cool shot Guy. Cool kid. Looks a bit overexposed though, probably because you got too close for the minimum flash output. I'd try the wide angle flash diffuser, it'll reduce output and if you have an SFill, that'll reduce it even further. In fact I never take the WA attachment off.

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    Re: M8 and TTL flash (SF24D)

    Yea I actually had that on , need to play more with this to get it dead on but a nice start. The flash overpowers it but the background is right. Just need to play more with this but I like it so far.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: M8 and TTL flash (SF24D)

    After reading this thread, I think the SF24D might be the flash I'm looking for, because my Vivitar 285HV is just sooooo honkin' big on the M8.

    Are there any other nominees, or is this little one the way to go?

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    Re: M8 and TTL flash (SF24D)

    The Metz 44MZ-2 with the SCA 3502 adapter works fairly well. It tilts, and the head zooms, and it can be taken off camera with a cord. It is still a bit large, especially if you are used to the smaller Leica flash. DR

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    Re: M8 and TTL flash (SF24D)

    Quote Originally Posted by Maggie O View Post
    After reading this thread, I think the SF24D might be the flash I'm looking for, because my Vivitar 285HV is just sooooo honkin' big on the M8.

    Are there any other nominees, or is this little one the way to go?
    i recently bought the metz 20 c-2 to try out. it's very inexpensive comparing to the sf24d's price. its construction feels cheap, but, i think, it'll still hold up well with careful use.

    the reason i got this metz was because of its compactness, and its flash head can be tilted for bounce-off-the-ceiling lighting. it seems to be working quite well for bounce flash, but not for direct flash. i don't know how to use it properly yet.

    anyway, maybe you might like to give this one a try.

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