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Thread: M8.2

  1. #51
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    Re: M8.2

    Leica has said the M8 is here to last, thanks this upgrade great idea (sic) and they said they couldn't make it FF.
    So expecting a FF M9 is a bit of living of hope. Nothing will happen on this side before long, except correcting the original flaws that's all about the M8.2.
    Leica also made it clear there was no new R this year. Anyway they would probably have come with another APS sensor type while the market is on FF. Their lateness in this department is awful how could they cope with it ?
    I love my Leica R and M but must say Leica will be out of the business if something big doesn't happen NOW.
    So what is left ? They talked of a cheaper M, I see nothing else than Micro 4/3 Panasonic copy with Leica lenses. That's mean we'll get a few micro 4/3 Leica lenses to chew for this Photokina. Will it be enough for them to survive ?
    I am afraid.....

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    Re: M8.2

    They also said a digital Leica M was impossible (right up until the RD-1 came out) and that there would never be a digital R series camera until they gave us the DMR. What the marketing people say and what the engineers are working on are very different things. Furthermore, if Leica went out of business every time the general public said they would, they would have been gone shortly after the Nikon F2.
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  3. #53
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    Re: M8.2

    I'm sure they are working on some more ambitious changes for the M behind the scenes. The new owners didn't purchase Leica just so it could limp along forever. But a serious leap forward for the M will likely take some time. No manufacturer has expressed the least interest in the DRF market. They need all their resources to remain competitive in the DSLR market, Nikon and maybe soon Sony are bringing some serious competition to Canon. None of the DSLR companies can afford the distraction for such a small return. So the M8 is sure to remain best in class for the near future.

    There are no stock holders to answer to so management can think long term. I hope Leica has another M3 like really innovative product in it's future. I'm also hoping they don't cede the small format space to Ricoh and Sigma as it's a natural for Leica. In the mean time there is not anything on the market like the M8 so I'm happy clicking away with it.

  4. #54
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    Re: M8.2

    Quote Originally Posted by sinwen View Post
    So what is left ? They talked of a cheaper M, I see nothing else than Micro 4/3 Panasonic copy with Leica lenses. That's mean we'll get a few micro 4/3 Leica lenses to chew for this Photokina. Will it be enough for them to survive ?
    I am afraid.....
    I have to say, I can see huge possibilities here. I would have thought that a well made body could be combined with an optical 'rangefinder' which could have accurate electronic framelines, manual focus confirmation or autofocus - plus the ability to use live-view on the LCD screen. It could also be a good deal smaller than the M8 (more like a G9 size). Tiny new leica lenses made for the reduced sensor/lens distance (20mm rather than 27) and an adaptor so that you can use all your old M lenses (with the 6 bit coding providing information). Together with Olympus' excellent new 4:3 Zuiko zoom lenses

    Most of the new stuff required (lenses / optical 'RF' viewfinder) etc. are right up Leica's street.

    It just seems to me to have the potential of providing a setup which people really would like to have, with image quality far beyond that available with the current ricoh and panasonic compacts.

    But I fear they aren't going to join in

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    Re: M8.2


  6. #56
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    Re: M8.2

    HI There
    yes - pretty isn't it, but someone confessed to making them up on the basis of 'what they would like to see': I think they did a grand job, but I don't think it has much to do with reality.




    Quote Originally Posted by sinwen View Post

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  7. #57
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    Re: M8.2

    On polish sites is official Leica info about M8.2 http://www.optyczne.pl/1249-nowość-L...dalmierza.html and lenses http://www.optyczne.pl/1248-nowość-L...obiektywy.html
    Sorry, I can't translate this. And Hi everyone, this is my first post.

  8. #58
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    Re: M8.2

    Google translate will.... Leica M8.2


    ...apparently this site and Google aren't playing well together, but go to Google Translate and let it work its magic
    Last edited by matmcdermott; 12th September 2008 at 12:27. Reason: bad link

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  10. #60
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    Re: M8.2

    Burried in the Polish article is mention of a new 1.4x viewfinder magnifier. Both this and M8.2 available in October.

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    Re: M8.2

    Actually it sounded like a new 1.25x and the 1.4x - something about cross hairs? It could have been a Google translation issue. Sounds like a must have for the new 50mm F.95.

  12. #62
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    Re: M8.2

    Why would they have a 24mm external finder on the Camera?

  13. #63
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    Re: M8.2

    Quote Originally Posted by robsteve View Post
    Why would they have a 24mm external finder on the Camera?
    To allow a higher VF magnification hence a better focus accuracy perhaps.

  14. #64
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    Re: M8.2

    focus accuracy? the external finder is just for framing ... I presume you meant the magnifier?

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    Re: M8.2

    If the view finder magnification was increased from .68 to say .85 ,you would lose the ability to frame the 24 thru the viewfinder .Maybe this will become an option on the M8.2. A higher viewfinder magnification would be desirable to increase focusing accuracy with the 1.4 lenses. It look like maybe the external viewfinder might also be a 21/24 finder providing some flexibility for the future.

  16. #66
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    Re: M8.2

    Quote Originally Posted by matmcdermott View Post
    focus accuracy? the external finder is just for framing ... I presume you meant the magnifier?
    The current M8 has framelines for the 24mm. The older 24mm brightline finder is in the M8.2 picture.

    I looked to see if there was any hint of a higher mag viewfinder, such as .72 on the masking, but it doesn't show in the pictures posted. The M7 has .85 or .58 written in the mask on the bottom of the main finder window.

    Robert

  17. #67
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    Re: M8.2

    Rob I can t find the translated version of the article ..but I read it somewhere...I think there is a new viewfinder that covers the 21 and the 24 and maybe is set up for the M8...like the Zeiss 25/28 .....what would be nice is one that is really 28/32 to cover the use of the 21 or the 24 on the M8. Or then maybe I am just wishing ..again. Roger

  18. #68
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    Re: M8.2

    Quote Originally Posted by robsteve View Post
    The current M8 has framelines for the 24mm. The older 24mm brightline finder is in the M8.2 picture.

    I looked to see if there was any hint of a higher mag viewfinder, such as .72 on the masking, but it doesn't show in the pictures posted. The M7 has .85 or .58 written in the mask on the bottom of the main finder window.

    Robert
    I haven't seen anything that indicates that the 8.2 has anything other than the .68 finder.

  19. #69
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    Re: M8.2

    Wonder if they will offer a black paint upgrade?
    -bob

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    Re: M8.2

    There's not enough here in the M8.2 to upgrade either of my M8s. Why does Leica worry about protecting the "value of the camera body" when most of the investment is in the lenses anyway? You don't see Nikon or Canon or MF manufacturers sitting on new technology, they introduce the higher res, lower noise version and let the market decide what to do with the prior model's used prices.

    Don't get me wrong, I love shooting with my M cameras, both film and digital. There's no better glass available anywhere. The M8 files are lovely. But we all see where the sensor technology is going and right now the D700 sets the bar for 35mm sensors, while Canon will no doubt have something tasty in a week or so. C'mon Leica, we want more res (14-16MP) and lower noise up to ISO 6400, even if we can't have full frame yet. Full frame is just harder when the lens-to-film plane distance is so short. At least add the M8 to the a-la-carte program and let us choose what options we want.

    End rave.

  21. #71
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    Re: M8.2

    Quote Originally Posted by bradhusick View Post
    There's not enough here in the M8.2 to upgrade either of my M8s. Why does Leica worry about protecting the "value of the camera body" when most of the investment is in the lenses anyway? You don't see Nikon or Canon or MF manufacturers sitting on new technology, they introduce the higher res, lower noise version and let the market decide what to do with the prior model's used prices.
    Hasn't Capture One announced an update program? I even wonder if some manufacturers had one in the past for MF backs.

  22. #72
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    Re: M8.2

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    Rob I can t find the translated version of the article ..but I read it somewhere...I think there is a new viewfinder that covers the 21 and the 24 and maybe is set up for the M8...like the Zeiss 25/28 .....what would be nice is one that is really 28/32 to cover the use of the 21 or the 24 on the M8. Or then maybe I am just wishing ..again. Roger
    Found the translated version which explains this. Two new finders 21 and 24 with frames for both the FF and 1.3 F sensors....so the 24 will have a field of view of 24 with an inner frame of approx. 32.

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    Re: M8.2

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    Found the translated version which explains this. Two new finders 21 and 24 with frames for both the FF and 1.3 F sensors....so the 24 will have a field of view of 24 with an inner frame of approx. 32.
    So, there are no frame lines in the camera, for 21 or 24 mm? Live view would sure come in handy for things like this, if there was some way to put the rangefinder focusing in the live view. I guess that would take away the true rangefinder experience though. The quieter shutter/delayed cocking sounds good though.
    Last edited by clay stewart; 15th September 2008 at 07:17.

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    Re: M8.2

    Quote Originally Posted by clay stewart View Post
    So, there are no frame lines in the camera, for 21 or 24 mm? Live view would sure come in handy for things like this, if there was some way to put the rangefinder focusing in the live view. I guess that would take away the true rangefinder experience though. The quieter shutter/delayed cocking sounds good though.
    Clay I have seen nothing that indicates the M8.2 finder is different than the M8...except that it is set to match the lens FOV at 2M rather than .7M. This of course would make the 24/35 frame set pretty tight and maybe difficult for eyeglass users. Rather the 24 will clearly be large enough to block some of the finder . For precise framing some will prefer an external finder...others will just use the viewfinder . I use the external finder for my 21/2,8 where its required and have found no significant issue with using external finders ..once I shot enough to get used to them. Roger

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    Re: M8.2

    Why does Leica worry about protecting the "value of the camera body"
    True. As you said, it's the lenses that count the most.

    I'm hoping that with the introduction of the M9 they'll do the same thing they did with their film bodies, (MP/M7) and offer one body for the traditionalists (The M8.3?) and another with updated features and improved controls, maybe even - gasp! - a different body shape entirely than the 1954 version we're still living with.

    I'm sticking with my R-D1 for now because it's controls are just so sweet, and the IQ is good enough for me.

  26. #76
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    Re: M8.2

    Wonder if they will offer a black paint upgrade?
    -bob

    They do Bob,it comes as a kit.The delux version(spraycan)is a snip at 499euros but is guaranteed environment friendly and there should be enough left over for those odd jobs around the house.
    p.s(leica note)if you have the silver body we sugest you buy 2 cans and give an extra coat .
    Last edited by nei1; 15th September 2008 at 12:07.

  27. #77
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    Re: M8.2

    Bob its occured to me that what I thought was an amusing comment was in fact a serious enquiry.Hope my post did not cause offence as absolutely none was intended,my sincere apologies if this was the case,regards Neil.

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    Re: M8.2

    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    Bob its occured to me that what I thought was an amusing comment was in fact a serious enquiry.Hope my post did not cause offence as absolutely none was intended,my sincere apologies if this was the case,regards Neil.
    No offense taken.
    I liked your response, actually, although you might have understated the price.
    In all seriousness, I would like a black paint version, but not enough to pay for the difference between the 8.2 and what I might get on the used market for my brace of M8s.
    -bob

  29. #79
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    Re: M8.2

    I dont see why the M8 cant be made available a-la-carte.Personally I find the viewfinder confusing and would like the option of single frames for 35,50 and 90 (equiv).There must be a reason I suppose but its difficult to see what it is.
    All the best,Neil.

  30. #80
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    Re: M8.2

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Wonder if they will offer a black paint upgrade?
    -bob
    It is black paint.

  31. #81
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    Re: M8.2

    Neil ... isn't the Black M8-2 black chrome with black paint over it? It seems so from what Leica is saying.
    Last edited by fotografz; 6th November 2008 at 15:33.

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    Re: M8.2

    What's different about the black paint of the M8.2 compared to the original black M8?

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    Re: M8.2

    To my understanding, if the M8.2 is produced using the same finishing methods that were used for the M6ttl and MP black paint models, the brass is first given a nickel coating, then a silver chrome finish and then painted with black enamel.

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    Re: M8.2

    Quote Originally Posted by John Black View Post
    What's different about the black paint of the M8.2 compared to the original black M8?
    It's like the difference between painting with flat matte paint or semi-gloss paint in your home. The original black anodized finsih shows rub marks, while the black paint finish doesn't show rub marks and can just be wiped down with a lens cloth.

    Basically, the black paint is more durable. It has a deeper black appearance and looks really, really nice.

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  35. #85
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    Re: M8.2

    Quote Originally Posted by j. white View Post
    To my understanding, if the M8.2 is produced using the same finishing methods that were used for the M6ttl and MP black paint models, the brass is first given a nickel coating, then a silver chrome finish and then painted with black enamel.
    Oh, I get it now ... black Chromium for the M8, black paint finished for the M8.2 ...

    not a huge fan of black paint ... looks great on the collector's glass enclosed shelf or dilettante's calf skin bag with velvet lining ... but working with one at a wedding for 8 hours in 85 heat and its a greasy mess

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    Re: M8.2

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    looks great on the collector's glass enclosed shelf or dilettante's calf skin bag with velvet lining ... but working with one at a wedding for 8 hours in 85 heat and its a greasy mess
    It also shows brass with user wear very nicely. Looking forward to my LHSA M6ttl wearing as much evidence of usage as my FM2 one day...

  37. #87
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    Re: M8.2

    I look at the 8.2 as getting the upgraded M8 without losing my camera for months. My 8.2 is on order. Trying to decide if this amateur needs a second body for any reason. Any thoughts?

    Best to all,

    Reynolds
    Best to all,

    Reynolds

  38. #88
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    Re: M8.2

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynolds View Post
    I look at the 8.2 as getting the upgraded M8 without losing my camera for months. My 8.2 is on order. Trying to decide if this amateur needs a second body for any reason. Any thoughts?

    Best to all,

    Reynolds
    If it was a first M8 or a second camera I'd think the M8.2 is a good move. If you have to take a bath on your current M8 and pay through the nose to replace it ... maybe not such a good move.

    Frankly, I don't see the M8.2 as an "upgrade" ... a slightly quieter shutter at the expense of 1/8000th when using f/1.4 glass in bright light ... and a new LCD screen that solves a rare or even nonexistent problem.

    The sensor's the same, the firmware's almost the same.

    So pop out the red dot and paint it black

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    Re: M8.2

    Already painted it!!! But, you do make good points.
    Best to all,

    Reynolds

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    Re: M8.2

    Reynolds, I am definitely a fan of twin M8's in the bag IF the photographer, amateur or pro, can afford that luxury
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    Re: M8.2

    Jack, on second thought, I need your workshops way more than I need a second M8. My head is beginning to clear now!! oooo eBay???

    Best to you and Guy!!
    Best to all,

    Reynolds

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    Re: M8.2

    I'm with fotografz on this one. I can't justify any of the upgrades since the most important ones (to me - SDHC support and AutoISO) were free.

    Besides when you can still do stuff like this

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    Re: M8.2

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Frankly, I don't see the M8.2 as an "upgrade" ... a slightly quieter shutter at the expense of 1/8000th when using f/1.4 glass in bright light ... and a new LCD screen that solves a rare or even nonexistent problem.
    The shutter speed reduction is a bit of a slap in the face. If Leica had to reduce the shutter speed, then they should have enabled ISO 80. I hit 1/8000 with F2. I don't think that ever happens on the 1Ds3 because its base ISO is 100.

    With Auto-ISO, ISO 80 would have blended in nicely. If the shutter speed exceeds 1/4000, then drop to ISO 80. That way "in theory" nobody loses anything. I realize the DR may be reduced at ISO 80. With a Canon going from ISO 100 to ISO 50 usually means the loss of 1-stop of DR.

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    Re: M8.2

    Hi There
    I'm dithering about the upgrades as well.
    I do quite a lot of 'good light' work, and I've also hit 1/8000th on a few occasions (usually trying to limit depth of field with a wide aperture). On the other hand, a quieter shutter would also be nice!
    It seems to me that the 'correct' answer is probably to get one of my two bodies upgraded, and leave the other one. But I'm still considering it.

    One thing is for sure - most of the 'new features' of the M8.2 I want are on the firmware upgrade - the auto ISO is really wonderful for those variable low-light moments when fiddling with the exposure as well as focusing is prone to lose you the shot.

    Funny how most people accept AWB as a good thing - but are sniffy about auto ISO.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: M8.2

    I think most of those people have not used it as it exists in cameras like the D3 and D700 -- it really is a great feature -- more like intelligent AE than anything else. It still allows you complete creative control over the image, it just requires you to set your preferences ahead of time.
    My photos are here: http://www.stuartrichardson.com and more recent work here: http://stuartrichardson.tumblr.com/ Please have a look at my book!
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