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Thread: M9 and lenses guilt!

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    M9 and lenses guilt!

    When I read this forum I realize the majority of folks who have the M digital system are accomplished photographers that generate income via this hobby too. I'm a novice who is still learning about photography and often feel that it's such an expensive hobby (I'm not super rich by any means) to invest so much in and not make a dime from it.
    Sometimes I think sell it all and get a micro 4/3 system instead. Any thoughts or advice?
    Any one else who just has a M9 and Leica lenses just as a hobby?

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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    Often I've thought that there are more hobbyists with M9s that pro's. Maybe because pro photographers don't always make the big bucks. Maybe because not many pros can make a living with an M9. For whatever reason, there aren't all that many pros using M9's, but there are many many other people, call them hobbyists if you want, using M9s.

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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    Hobbies can be more important in your life than your job

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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    I think you are denegrating the idea of 'hobby'. Some people work hard at terrible jobs just so they can fund their hobby whether it is mountaineering or photography,... or golf ().

    Hobbiests do not have to be any less serious than somebody who does the activity for a living, in fact they can often exceed a professional because they don't have the same constraints of earning money from it. So enjoy your M9, you earned it as much as any pro.

    Steve

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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    I'm a hobbyist, M9-P owner, and I agree. Buy what you like and can afford. Consequently I own a Micro 4/3 and Sony NEX-5 as well. I prefer the lenses for Micro 4/3. Sony give better low light performance. I would choose neither over the M9. They're in 2 different leagues altogether but that's not to say you can't take great pictures with the others because I've taken some of my favorites with the G1.

    My job isn't a professional photographer but it supports my hobbies to include Golf too.
    Sony Visible Light & IR Photographer
    http://www.iiinelsonimages.com

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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    It's funny, I get a hard time on Australian forums for even owning an M9! I think the term "wanker" was used liberally referring to all Leica users (and not light heartedly), purely because I have one.

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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    Hobby or not the good question IMO is to ask yourself if you need a rangefinder.

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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    I don't know as your going to be happy with the m4/3 system after using an M9! They are two different type of systems! If your only concern is that you have spent too much money and you have it. Enjoy the camera guilt free.

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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    Quote Originally Posted by Moonshine View Post
    Any one else who just has a M9 and Leica lenses just as a hobby?
    I started with an M6 a couple of years ago, followed by M8 (actually 2 of them), MP and M9. I "lost" a lot of money with the digital bodies, but all the Leica m-lenses and the MP (the M6 I sold at no loss) I bought over the years sell now at significantly higher prices than what I payed (I selectively bought "used in mint condition", except for 1 lens which was new) easily compensating for the losses on the digital bodies. So yes, it's a lot of money tied up in the system, thus its costly, yet not expensive as the money invested could be recovered and then some. So unless you need the cash or have better use for it, enjoy your M9 and lenses. As nice as mft or other mirrorless systems maybe, they will not give you the same satisfaction as the M system does and they are all expensive, in the true sense of the technical term, since they loose value quickly.

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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    Unless you are into the buy and sell thing and are good at that, Leica (or any other) system is not an "investment". Gold purchase, a while ago, would have returned much more than Leica glass (or any other system glass).

    There is nothing that can be made using Leica gear alone that can not be done with many others.

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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    Quote Originally Posted by Moonshine View Post
    ...a novice who is still learning about photography and often feel ...to invest so much. Any thoughts or advice?
    Any one else who just has a M9 and Leica lenses just as a hobby?

    During my training I had a chief who had been raised in Japan...came to the US and ended up the head of an Anesthesia Department at a major university medical center in the Midwest. He always hosted a conversation and dinner for students that centered on finding a passion in life that allowed you to weather the stress of your profession. He and his wife were concert level pianists and art collectors...she a respected painter. His point was that one all too often spends a large amount of time without focus away from work and life is too short not to accomplish something in addition to your profession...that effort should be one that renews you and allows you to stay alert oriented and clear.

    Many of us here are probably on this path knowingly or not. At times it can be expensive but money is not the key to knowledge nor competence.

    It does sound like you have made a major sacrifice to enter at a very high level...as a novice you may find the system limiting...no macro (well a limited form) long telephoto nor the ability to play with a zoom that helps you learn (marginally) depth and perspective in a short time. You can use the M system to great efffect...just look at the pictures displayed here...but it limits your ability to play.

    I have been in and out of the M system multiple times over the past 35 years...I always come back as nothing else conveys the sense of reality that I see in its crystal clear capture of the moment. Less intrusive...very personal and very close. You will lose all of that in another system...non-RF.

    If you decide to sell I would recommend that you keep one lens and perhaps buy a GXR M mount or a Novoflex for the m43. I assume that you will return and this will make your entry back a little less difficult.

    Sorry for the run-on...just some thoughts.

    Bob

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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    I am in the M system since 25 years now, M6, M7, MP and had the M8 which I sold because it had several flaws. Unfortunately I still do not have a M9, as there was always something more important to spend my money. Now I am patiently waiting for the M10 in order to again be able to use all my M lens collection, which I built up over the past 25 years.

    I would never sell my M system. I have sold all other systems multiple times (sure lost too much money) but I would always keep my M! Just because it is the best system for me and my photography purposes I could get. And IQ is stunning (well if all works fine which was unfortunately not the case with the M8)

    But the M10 will be the perfect M camera - I know

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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    I try to measure my life by the satisfaction I derive from it rather than how much money I save pursuing it. As long as you are no selling your kids to buy your equipment (and some here may take issue with such a soft approach), why not have an M9?

    Now if you are worried about gear snobs that like to dismiss Leica as toys for the rich, put a Nikon logo on the front. Personally, if the person is knocking me for my belongings, that really puts their opinion in perspective and whether it is worth my time for a response.

    As you go though life, the birds of the air will $h1t on you; don't bother to wipe it off...

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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    But the M10 will be the perfect M camera - I know
    Almost as good as the M11...


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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    If you are intent on learning photography, buy and use whatever motivates you to learn more. It makes no difference whether you are a pro or amateur, whether you make any money from the effort, or whether your desired camera is expensive or not. Accept the fact that having an expensive camera does not make your photography any better, and give up the false notion that what others think about your owning a Leica means anything at all.

    You'll be happier and will do more good photography if whatever you buy to use does not constantly remind you of how much it costs with the fear of losing it. Be patient, buy within your means, and abandon yourself to the photography not the camera.

    For some, a Leica M itself is a Thing of Beauty that motivates their learning. There's value in that, but it is dangerous to let that be the most important thing.

    What I enjoy about working with the M is its simplicity and lack of distraction. That's worth a lot to me, so I'll buy an M digital soon. I could buy it tomorrow; I'll be a little more comfortable spending the money in three months. In the meantime, I'm quite happy concentrating on Photography and working with the excellent equipment I already have.

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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    thanks thats good advice

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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    thanks Bob..you are right i have made some big sacrifices to invest in this system but after reading every ones responses i feel a whole lot better about it.
    Whats life without any passions right?

    Thank you everyone for your responses )

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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    Amateur having fun!

    I started a with a GF1 a couple of years ago and soon began using manual focus lens with adaptors on the micro four/thirds camera. I really started enjoying the manual focus lens over the autofocus. I soon wanted to get away from autofocus and learn more about light, focus, aperture, exposure, composure and to slow down instead of just snapping shots.

    No guilt involved in pursuing a hobby that is bringing a lot of joy and recently enrolled in a 9 month photography program. Out of a group of 21 I am the only one that is working with a Leica film and digital camera. I am having a blast.

    Pursue the course in life that will make you happy!

    Good luck with your choice, I do not believe there is a wrong decision.

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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    Getting better at photography takes effort. Anything to make that effort more pleasurable or satisfying or even simply more *likely* is all to the good. Using a Leica is not easy for me, but it forces me to think, and so the improvement is satisfying and the results can be stunning.

    Speaking of guilt, I still haven't told my wife about the 28 Cron.... uh oh.

    Matt

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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    Congratulations on your M9, and I am sure you will enjoy it.

    no need for guilt trips.

    If my wife doesn't get mad at me for buying three 50mm lenses in Leica mount this week, no one has a reason to get mad at anyone buying camera gear.

    and I certainly don't feel guilty.

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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian S View Post


    and I certainly don't feel guilty.
    Oh I don't know Brian, three.......

    Well done!

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    Senior Member Peter Klein's Avatar
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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    Brian gets a pass because every 50 he touches ends up better than it was when he bought it! :-)

    But seriously, some people view Leica as nothing more than bling neck jewelry for the rich. Others believe that only the latest technology deserves to exist. Calling Leica owners "wankers" makes such people feel better about themselves.

    I use Leica simply because it's the best tool for me, and in general the pictures I take with it are better in ways I consider important. I don't have to justify my choice to anyone. Neither do you.

    I use a DSLR and a micro 4/3 camera, too. I choose the best tool for the job at hand, with considerations for my ability to carry stuff, the image quality I'll get, and yes, the cost. I usually buy used--you can do a lot with last year's model.

    --Peter

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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    Sometimes you can't put a price on the retreat that photography offers. It's nice to get out, by yourself and without distractions and just get into the zone for a while.

    Your gear doesn't need to be expensive. Heck, get a Holga. As long as you're taking pictures and you're in your happy place - mission accomplished.

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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    Quote Originally Posted by Moonshine View Post
    Any one else who just has a M9 and Leica lenses just as a hobby?
    Yeah, me. It beats spending your money on "illegal" drugs, booze, hookers, donkeys, and penicillin.

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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    Quote Originally Posted by JSRockit View Post
    Yeah, me. It beats spending your money on "illegal" drugs, booze, hookers, donkeys, and penicillin.
    Okay, well - let's not get crazy here.

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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    Quote Originally Posted by JSRockit View Post
    Yeah, me. It beats spending your money on "illegal" drugs, booze, hookers, donkeys, and penicillin.
    Hmm. Given the cold/flu I've had in the past few days, penicillin sounds like a darn good thing ... !

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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    Well . . all the things I've thought of saying have been said by someone else.
    If you enjoy your M9 and you like shooting with it, then don't feel guilty about it - it's cheaper than lovers or sailboats!
    I'm afraid I have too many cameras, but going back to my M9 is always an Aaaaaaah moment - and going through my photos from this year, it's the M9 ones which give me most satisfaction.

    If you like it enjoy it (and forget the guilt).

    all the best

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    When I go back through my pictures, the M9 ones can make me feel guilty. One Internet to whoever can identify this picture. You may find embarrassment prevents you from admitting it, though.


    Matt

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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Well . . all the things I've thought of saying have been said by someone else.
    If you enjoy your M9 and you like shooting with it, then don't feel guilty about it - it's cheaper than lovers or sailboats!
    I'm afraid I have too many cameras, but going back to my M9 is always an Aaaaaaah moment - and going through my photos from this year, it's the M9 ones which give me most satisfaction.

    If you like it enjoy it (and forget the guilt).

    all the best
    Well said.
    in the end you will not want to be lying on your deathbed thinking "If I only had kept my M9". (or IQ180, or whatever you enjoy most)
    -bob

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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    Quote Originally Posted by erick.boileau View Post
    Hobbies can be more important in your life than your job
    uh?
    The only point of a job is to pay for your hobbies. If they manage to generate income well that is ok too.
    -bob

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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    During my training I had a chief who had been raised in Japan...came to the US and ended up the head of an Anesthesia Department at a major university medical center in the Midwest. He always hosted a conversation and dinner for students that centered on finding a passion in life that allowed you to weather the stress of your profession. He and his wife were concert level pianists and art collectors...she a respected painter. His point was that one all too often spends a large amount of time without focus away from work and life is too short not to accomplish something in addition to your profession...that effort should be one that renews you and allows you to stay alert oriented and clear.

    Many of us here are probably on this path knowingly or not. At times it can be expensive but money is not the key to knowledge nor competence.

    Sorry for the run-on...just some thoughts.

    Bob
    This philosophy reflects my personal belief and practise - and deserves careful consideration. In paticular I beleive that it is important to be able to point ot some success in the hobby ( whatever it be and whatever that means) - whatever is needed in order to pursue this serious commitment is fine.


    Pete

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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    This philosophy reflects my personal belief and practise - and deserves careful consideration. In paticular I beleive that it is important to be able to point ot some success in the hobby ( whatever it be and whatever that means) - whatever is needed in order to pursue this serious commitment is fine.


    Pete
    Thank you Pete . . I'm not terribly good at the whole concept of photography as a 'hobby'. I'm not professional . so I guess my photography must be a hobby (the odd paid gig is neither here nor there).

    . . . . but despite my flippancy here I take it really seriously - it sure isn't a form of relaxation - it's another direction for creativity, and I put plenty of effort into it. Hobby seems just too demeaning! I try and apply just as stringent controls as I do with my 'real' work. . . as you say, a serious commitment - not so much in money, but certainly in time and effort.

    all the best

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    When I go back through my pictures, the M9 ones can make me feel guilty. One Internet to whoever can identify this picture. You may find embarrassment prevents you from admitting it, though.


    Matt
    I've heard that you can collapse a Summicron on a Leica M8 and M9, but the manual advises against it.

    Maybe because the author of the manual discovered it does not focus properly when collapsed....

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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    Nothing that fancy! It's a 28 Cron lens hood from the inside with the front cap still on. The bright blob is the light coming in through the viewfinder cutout on the hood. (Sorry, I do go on about that lens, but it is the most recent purchase, and thus gets me out of the house and shooting, which is the point, really..)

    D'oh!

    Matt

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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    . . I'm not terribly good at the whole concept of photography as a 'hobby'.

    all the best
    Jono,

    the original was: "centered on finding a passion in life"

    I am sure that Pete was responding to that ideal...hobby as defined these days does relegate the pursuit to a rather mean endeavor. Not at all what we all strive to attain.

    I am sure that you both are more in agreement than not. I know that I am.

    Bob

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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    the inside with the front cap still on.

    D'oh!

    Matt
    Matt,

    I prefer to refer to these as a dark calibration frame...nice to fall back on the astrophotographers when one does this...and I have many times.

    Not to mention the time I bought a new M6... drove three hours into Yosemite only to find that the boxed batteries were so old they died within 5 minutes...thank heavens that Kodak had the sunny 16 rule on the film cannister insert.

    Nice capture ... never would have guessed. Mine are usually fairly close to 0,0,0

    Bob

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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    Matt,
    Mine are usually fairly close to 0,0,0
    Bob
    It just adds to my embarrassment. I was using Auto Exposure , and there was enough light leaking in that it wasn't THAT long an exposure. Good thing I chimp a lot!

    Matt

  38. #38
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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    Guilt, an interesting concept.........

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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Thank you Pete . . I'm not terribly good at the whole concept of photography as a 'hobby'. I'm not professional . so I guess my photography must be a hobby (the odd paid gig is neither here nor there).

    . . . . but despite my flippancy here I take it really seriously - it sure isn't a form of relaxation - it's another direction for creativity, and I put plenty of effort into it. Hobby seems just too demeaning! I try and apply just as stringent controls as I do with my 'real' work. . . as you say, a serious commitment - not so much in money, but certainly in time and effort.

    all the best
    Well I don't disagree with anything you say Jono - as Bob indicates I think we are in fact saying the same thing. I am (mostly) too phlegmatic a character to use a word like passion to describe my passion -

    Pete

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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    Work makes my life possible not vice versa


    If you enjoy the M9, then why feel guilty? I know guys at work who spend 600 dollars for ONE golf club! then you have to add in club memberships, green fees etc. Or people who buy motorcycles for their hobby, Ive been out of bikes for a while now, but Harleys and Ducatis are in the 20,000 range easily

    Have fun, life is short

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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    If it's your only Vice, you need some new vices.

    The Nikon Sales rep told me that.

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    Re: M9 and lenses guilt!

    If you have M9/lenses guilt we have a cure.
    Pack them all up carefully and send them to me.
    In a year or two you will be guilt-free.
    -bob

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