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Thread: Purchasing used m9-help please

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    Purchasing used m9-help please

    Hey all
    I'm in the process of purchasing a used m9 and have found one that is about 1.5 years old, still under warranty, and has a very light scratch on the bottom of the lcd. The seller states that it's surface, hard to photograph, and can't feel it with thumb. I asked for a picture taken of the camera at high iso, since I heard that you can check for dead pixels on the sensor or sensor dust that way. I attached the pic, and want to get feedback on whether those issues are present and whether this is a good deal on the leica. I think there might be some dust or marks in the clouds-not sure. I think he said there's about 2k actuations and agreed to sell for 5k. Any help is appreciated.

    JP

    p.s.-He's also selling a summilux 50mm 1.4 current model for $2k-good deal?

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    Quote Originally Posted by JPizzzle View Post
    Hey all
    I'm in the process of purchasing a used m9 and have found one that is about 1.5 years old...check for dead pixels on the sensor or sensor dust that way. I think he said there's about 2k actuations and agreed to sell for 5k. Any help is appreciated.

    JP
    All you can tell from this post is that he has one of the dirtiest sensors I have seen....easy to clean ... no idea on dead pixels...best done with a dark frame.

    2000 exposures is nothing...

    May be a good deal if you want a camera with no warranty...not to dissuade you but the savings is not overwhelming if he has scratched the LCD. Still a very compelling camera.

    Bob

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    Senior Member dude163's Avatar
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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    If its under warranty thats great news! if anything goes bad you can get it fixed


    also: The stuff in the clouds is either dust on the sensor or the lens.

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    Is it possible to remove the scratches and would this warrant the 5k price? It's still under warranty and he agreed to file to transfer it. Is cleaning the sensor something that I should undertake-sorry have never dealt with this before.

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    I don't know where you are located, but if you are in the U.S., it's my understanding that the warranty is not transferable for U.S. based repair. Can someone confirm?

    --Alan

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    I'm located in the US. I thought the international warranty is transferable?

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    The Summilux sounds like too good a deal. Current model Summiluxes sell for about $4000. You can search the forum for sales; search for "Summilux 50 mint," or something similar.

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    Honestly, I have a hard time believing that this person is selling a 50 summilux asph for $2000.
    This lens is close to $4000 new and if he's selling it for half price, it's one of the following:

    1. He's a scammer
    2. The lens is defective in some way
    3. He doesn't know the value of the lens
    4. The lens is not the current version (E43 pre-asph?)
    5. The lens is actually the latest 50 summicron

    If he claims the lens is the latest 50 summilux asph in sound condition, I say buyer beware on the M9 as well.
    Scott

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    I asked him some questions on the lux and waiting to here back-i am starting to get a little suspicious-we shall see...

    From the pic I attached it looks to be the current-no?

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    He actually has about 4k actuations I found out-last image info:

    0x00000F41 HEX = 3905

    Do you guys think that with the scratch and the actuations that it's worth the 5k-about 6 months left on warranty

    Thanks again,
    Huge purchase for me so deff want to make sure to figure everything out.

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    Before deciding whether or not it is a good deal, are you certain that this person is a credible seller?

    If I were in your shoes, price of the M9 seems good, but I'm not comfortable with the price of the lens.. and this makes me uncomfortable with the M9 as well.
    Scott

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    Well, this is what I know.
    I found him on amazon marketplace and is willing to sell through there-so i'm protected through amazon. He also has pics on flicker under his name dating back to 2010 with the m9. I also spoke to him over the phone. Not sure what more I can do beyond this when dealing with an out of state purchase? Any advice is recommended. He also agreed to go through paypal purchase if i'd like, but i like being able to go through amazon.

    JP

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    It sounds like you are already emotionally committed in purchasing the M9 since you are asking for suggestions on payment options..

    As I said, you should make sure that the seller is not a scammer before thinking about payment options.. 50 summilux asph for $2000 should ring many, very large, loud alarms in your head. I suggest sorting this out first with the seller.
    Scott

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    Well I am emotionally committed to purchasing an M9 in steel grey-it doesn't have to be this one, but the price is good on this. I'm going to see what he writes about the lux, it's deff ringing alarms in my head for sure.

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    JP, like others, some definite caution flags go up for me.

    I was curious what Amazon covered, and found this statement:

    "Buyers who pay for Amazon Marketplace or Merchant purchases via the Amazon.com website and buyers who use Amazon Payments for qualified purchases from a third-party website are eligible to receive up to $2,500 of the purchase price, including shipping charges."

    Here:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/custom...0#requirements

    Just be careful....Mike

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    Thanks Mikel,
    I had not known about the$2500 limit, that's a bit concerning. I wonder if using an amazon credit card would make a difference. Guessing not. Perhaps i'm better off using paypal and billmelater since it won't take any cash out of my account in case nothing shows up...

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    He said the lens has no issues and he has the box and receipts. Do you guys recommend I ask or do anything else at this point. It's an unbelievable price-for the lens particularly so not sure what to do to cover myself....

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    M9's go for about $6k, give or take. A minor scuff mark on the LCD cover isn't going to affect price all that much; maybe $100. Leica will replace the glass (for a fee, under $200 IIRC) if you care. The spots are dust. $5k is a real bargain, and even if it needs RF adjustment or some other work it's still a bargain. So is $2k for a 'lux 50A. Unless badly messed up Leica and many independent technicians can repair it for you for much less than you save over a mint used one. Assuming the items are real, if you don't like them you can flip them here on B&S forum and easily get your money back plus any shipping or other costs, and possibly make a little something for your trouble.

    Agreed on all the buyer beware warnings... if it sounds too good it probably is. And both of these sound awfully good. But then maybe it's peanuts to the seller and they just want to unload it.

    4k actuations basically means it's brand new and he didn't more than do a bit of QC on it.

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    Thanks Jan,
    I didn't know about the plastic replacement, that's good to know. I just need to figure out how the warranty transfer works for US purchased items. Also, I need to figure out whether to go through paypal instead of amazon since it appears i'm only covered for $2500. If this works out, it'll certainly be an amazing deal, but we shall see. I'm not going to let this cloud my judgement...
    JP

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    Anyone else has advice on how to setup this purchase? I spoke to amazon customer service and after a supervisor went digging around they guaranteed me that if an item does not arrive or what not that the case would be escalated and I would be covered for the full amount even if it's above $2500. I had them email me this in writing in case there are any issues. I am probably going to stick to amazon since I can use the amazon no interest card and no actual cash will be leaving my bank account in case this deal is not legitimate in any way.

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    Pardon my directness however it seems you've done all the research you can do on this sale and it's time to fish or cut bait. I'll agree there's a lot of money riding on this however in the end it must be your decision to either walk away or buy. Bottom line - what's your gut telling you? No one here can make that decision for you.
    Again, it sounds like you've done a good job of researching your options, now it's up to you.
    Best of luck either way you go.

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    Not offended at all Don, just making sure I have all my basis covered. My gut is telling me that it may actually be legitimate due to him providing me with a pic taken today from the camera with a 50mm, his flickr history with the camera, positive amazon marketplace feedback, pics of the camera and lens. I think I'm gonna give it a shot on this one assuming he still wants to sell-speaking to him tonight to finalize. I don't think there's much more that I can do to protect myself. If it all works out, it'll be really unbelievable-for the lens more so then the camera. I was actually just planning to buy the 35mm zeiss for the m9, but I can come up with an extra 1k for this summilux masterpiece. Keep your fingers crossed for me guys....

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    It's not difficult to sell on Amazon, but not as easy as ebay. The fact that he's selling there gives him credibility, IMHO. Use a credit card. Charge it back if there are problems.

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    It seems very unlikely that it could be stolen property, given the info you have given regarding Flickr etc etc - but I'd ask him to send you a photo of the original bill of sale.

    Good luck!

    Bil

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    5K is a decent price but it's not that good of a deal if you feel like the risk is too high. There are plenty of M9s around for slightly more.

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    Thanks Bil, I'll make sure to have him send me that. I was concerned about the scratches in the glass, but a leica dealer told me that I can probably take it to a jeweler they can get it out with a diamond polish of some type. I was also told that the glass cannot be replaced by itself since it's attached to the back and warrants a full back piece replacement. Anyway, it's not a huge deal considering he brought down the price. I think i'm covered risk wise, so we'll see where this goes!

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    Hi JPizzle,

    You've gotten some very good advice from all here on Getdpi. $5,000 is a pretty low price for a M9 even with a small scratch on the LCD. What concerns me more is the 50mm Lux asph for $2000. That for me personally raises a red flag. Approx 40-50% of what they nomally sell for is a cause for concern, at least for me it is. I personally would proceed with caution even though I have no way of knowing if this is a perfectly ligitimate deal or not. Hope whatever you decide that it all works out OK.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    Thanks Dave,
    I'm doing the best I can at this point. I'm just waiting for him to email me a pic of the receipt. I have the serial numbers for both the m9 and the lux. The lux appears to be made in 2008, but he bought it in 2010. So that might be something to look into. Should I post the serials here? Not sure what info i'd be able to find.

    I spoke to a leica dealer and told him about the situation, he states that the owner may simply not know the going rate on the lens and is comparing it to what he paid, which may happen more then we think. Either way, I sent him a notice letting him know that I will have everything checked out by an authorized dealer and if anything comes back with a problem, then I expect a full refund.

    BTW I truly truly appreciate the help through this. Hopefully it wasn't for nothing. This is my first leica, and a beyond expensive purchase for me. I'll actually be selling off my rarely used gibson les paul to help fund it. So it's great to get advice from more experienced buyers. If this works out, which I won't believe until it arrives to my door, I will deff share my impressions with the community .

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    He can't seem to find the receipt for the lens....

    Nevermind-he found the b&h online order email

  30. #30
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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    Good luck with your decision. I'd be nervous, but you've been thorough. Please post how it goes.

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    If it comes with a Summilux it is the bargain of the century.

    So if he isn't a scammer all I can say is dust is dust, cleaning your sensor should be normal user maintenance, so perhaps he doesn't know much about cameras (are his Flickr photo's any good for instance?). It may explain his innocence regarding the value of a Summilux? And remember shutter acutuations and file numbers are two separate things. The file number tells you nothing at all about the number of shutter actuations since it can be reset by the user. For the true shutter count you need to see the hexadecimal 'Unique Image ID' number in the EXIF file attached to a recent image, put the last characters (ignore all the 0's) into a hex to decimal converter (easy to Google one) and that gives you the number of times the shutter has been pressed. On average brand new cameras seem to have around 80 - 200 that reflect Leica's quality control process. I wouldn't worry much about shutter count though as even if it was in the many thousands the camera is built to take it.

    Steve

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    Ok so everything is just about finalized on this. Spoke to him multiple times over the phone. He even offered to show me the camera over webcam, but I wasn't able to at the moment. He was mistaken about where he got the lens from since he had been trying multiple places at the time of purchase. He stated that it is from dale photo and will call them today to get a copy of the receipt before we finalize this. It's deff the deal of the century if it shows up-I deff believe that he has the items, the only issue would be that he never sends-but i'm protected via paypal purchase and am using credit not debit cards so I feel ok. He stated that he is selling due to his wife being upset over having an expensive camera that people cannot use to take photos of the whole family and that only he can use. His flicker photos are primarily family pics so I'm leaning towards believing him. So besides telling him that I think that he can sell it for more, I think i'm covered on all ends. We'll see after I receive a tracking number..

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    Good luck. In the future perhaps you could save yourself time and worry by buying from a GetDPI forum member with an established reputation. Just sayin'...
    Brad Husick

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    Ok-so everything completed over paypal purchase-seller sent USPS express today and provided me the tracking-he even brought down the price a little for using papal purchase instead of amazon. So let's hope that I don't get an empty package and that everything is legit-I should be receiving it tomorrow I think, but tracking isn't up yet....deal of the century for sure if this works out, but don't want to get too excited...
    Last edited by JPizzzle; 11th January 2012 at 18:46.

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    Good luck to you and I hope everything would be ok. That is definitely the deal of the century.

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    I'd be too afraid to buy it like this. I agree that buying from established GetDPI members or eBay is a much safer way.


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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    Quote Originally Posted by bradhusick View Post
    Good luck. In the future perhaps you could save yourself time and worry by buying from a GetDPI forum member with an established reputation. Just sayin'...
    HAHAHAA - Would any getdpi member sell his 50mm lux for $2k?

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    Alrighty people- by 12pm eastern tomorrow my new camera and lens should be here (or possibly a box full of rocks lol). He was able to get a copy of his receipt for the lens from the company (adorama not dale) and its a legit pdf. Both receipts have the matching serials, his address, name, phone number, everything looks to be adding up. Should I ask for a paper receipt from the store or is a printout copy good enough if necessary for warranty work?

    So a little of my story:
    Assuming that this ends up being real, this is a huge deal for me. My previous most expensive camera was $1200, and that being the fuji x100 (I did have the next with 24 zeiss for a couple of weeks before deciding to sell). I had always dreamed about owning a leica. The history, the mechanics, the quality. Amazing. I just hope for no issues, since this is my best shot at affording this kind of setup.... I will keep you all posted. Thanks again,

    JP

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    Ok all,
    So I got everything-and of course not everything is as described. The issues appear to be cosmetic. The camera does have a couple of scratches on the lcd glass, but also has dust underneath the lcd. Also, the bottom plate has scratching and braising along the corners. The lens itself appears to be in good condition so far except for some scratches underneath where the lens hood extends out-not sure how that got there since the inside of the hood appears to be rubber. Anyway, i'd love some advice-this was done as two paypal transaction one for $4700 for the camera and 2k for the lens-assuming everything is in mechanically good condition-it takes pics but I need more testing. Do you think the prices are fair? I contacted the seller and he said that he would provide a full refund, but would want the lens back as well since he discounted it due to me buying the camera. Also, his warranty states that it's a 3 year warranty for the m9-isn't the warranty typically 2 years? Anyway- any advice is appreciated. This is a great deal of money for me-so I'm obviously anxious about all this.

  40. #40
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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    There is no factory warranty except to the original purchaser. Perhaps there is a third party warranty? Is the lens indeed a Summilux?

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    "Also, his warranty states that it's a 3 year warranty for the m9-isn't the warranty typically 2 years?"

    Are Leica warranties transferable in the US?

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    Just a general comment for you from what I think might be also reflect some other folks who responded here.

    What more advice do you need if you have the camera and lens in your hand?
    Isn't it just a matter of trying them out and seeing if it's what you were looking for?
    From what you said, you need to do more testing, so if you don't know the condition of the camera, then we sure don't. As for warranty, since you said you also have the receipt, it's only a phone call away.
    Have fun shooting.

    ps. Can you please forward me his email so that I can ask if he has any other Leica M lenses available for sale?
    Scott

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    "Also, his warranty states that it's a 3 year warranty for the m9-isn't the warranty typically 2 years?"

    Are Leica warranties transferable in the US?
    Leica warranties are not transferable.

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    Not transferrable, unless the seller is willing to work with the buyer in any future warranty work.
    Scott

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    I still have testing to do on the camera, my point was based on the dust under the lcd and cosmetics.
    Also dust in the rangefinder window.-Am i being crazy not expecting these things!?

    Yes, it's the 50mm lux asph

    Also, does anyone know why his warranty is a passport and states 3 years-instead of 2? Wasn't passport ended in the us?

    I guess my concern is that I didn't expect the cosmetic issues since he said it only had a scratch on the lcd and I found a lot of other things. Is $4700 for the m9 still a good price considering this -excuse my ignorance-I don't know how much this stuff effects value.

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    "Work with the buyer?" Meaning telling Leica that he still owns the camera?

    Isn't that fraud? (Hint: yes, it is.)

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    "Work with the buyer?" Meaning telling Leica that he still owns the camera?

    Isn't that fraud? (Hint: yes, it is.)
    Fraud, sure.
    Would Leica file charges if they somehow found out? Likely not. Will they deny service? Likely. How likely is it that they find out? Not unless someone tells. Not that I fully support this, this does happen in real life all the time.

    If I bought an item from a friend which has manufacturer's warranty and the item needs warranty repair, my friend would do it for me. So my definition of "work with the buyer" means maintaining a good relationship so if anything happens, you have the seller who's willing to do it on your behalf.

    Whether it is going against manufacturer's warranty policy, I've seen sellers in the past who openly stated that they will support future warranty repairs if required, especially on high dollar items. This takes loads off of buyer's back and the seller actually retains more value as warranty work is still valid. It's a win/win for both seller/buyer in most cases. That's the real situation.
    Scott

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    M9s go for $5,500. to $6,000. give or take. If they have a year or more warranty left, it'd be worth more toward the top end, no warranty, about $5,300. to $5,500 or so if in decent condition. You are at least $600. to $800 to the good.

    If the camera and lens works, just go with it. Who cares if there is a little scratch on the LCD? Doesn't affect performance in the least.

    Heck, if you are all bothered by it, sell the 50/1.4 Lux ASPH, put $2,000. into Leica's total redo for a new top, base and hardened glass LCD with a new warranty... and use the remaining $2,000. to get the lens you originally planned on.

    But I wouldn't. I would have bought this package just to get the 50mm and then sold off the M9 for $5,000.

    -Marc

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    Quote Originally Posted by JPizzzle View Post

    Also, does anyone know why his warranty is a passport and states 3 years-instead of 2? Wasn't passport ended in the us?
    What documentation do you have for that? If it is a genuine Passport then it is transferable during the Passport period, then it defaults to a worldwide warranty for the following year. So you could say the overall warranty with a Passport is two years. If you are within that first year period send it to Leica for a clean to sort out the dust. This is supposing the camera has been registered in the first place. You could call Leica and ask if you are covered. Otherwise the warranty will cover usual mechanical problems. If there are fundamental mechanical problems not down to normal use after the warranty period, such as cracked sensor etc, Leica usually deal with these anyway without quibbling.

    Personally from the price paid I wouldn't worry about the cosmetic scratches although I appreciate that if they weren't declared it is frustrating. I get the impression that the person selling it isn't very knowledgeable about cameras and just doesn't see them. I bet if you asked about the condition of his car he would say 'mint', but only if you ignored the scratches and dents on the bumpers.

    Of course after a few years and it maybe is starting to get shabby from heavy use you can upgrade the camera to an M9-P and it will come back virtually brand new, new body and LCD and everything, all the visible bits are exchanged.

    Steve

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    Re: Purchasing used m9-help please

    It states "Leica 3 year passport protection plan and limited warranty" customers copy with the bottom taken off.

    Transferable during the passport period? Even in the US? It states on the warranty-the leica 3 year passport protection plan and limited warranty is non transferable in bold red. This would be great if otherwise. But I don't know all the details. Leica usa today of course said that their is no international warranty transfer and didn't know what I was talking about.

    He did register the camera within the appropriate time frame-when I spoke to leica they looked up the serials. The dust under the lcd is annoying -not that it's a fantastic lcd and in the rangefinder window. I don't notice it but i know it's there. This is prob bothering me more then others would since this is my most expensive purchase other then my car-which is a porsche (boxster s) but still! lol

    I'm going to bring it by a leica dealer tomorrow to check it out for any obvious mechanical things. After this, By the time I can afford an m9p i'll prob just get the m12 .

    edit: also now found a giant piece of dust in the lens (confirmed with the flashlight test)

    I'm taking some pics and will be able to give my impressions of those tonight-maybe post a few for those interested.
    Last edited by JPizzzle; 13th January 2012 at 21:51.

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