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Thread: Leica S Leak

  1. #151
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    Re: Leica S Leak

    David - what is your opinion of the lenses for the S2?
    Image quality - like we expect from the best of Leica?
    Build quality?
    Was the autofocus quick and responsive? Autofocus quiet?

    How was the handling of the body compared to the DMR?

    Thank you for all your input so far!

  2. #152
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    Re: Leica S Leak

    Quote Originally Posted by cmb_ View Post
    David - what is your opinion of the lenses for the S2?
    Image quality - like we expect from the best of Leica?
    Build quality?
    Was the autofocus quick and responsive? Autofocus quiet?

    How was the handling of the body compared to the DMR?

    Thank you for all your input so far!
    I'm getting all that info put in my blog post. Still trying to weed down the images. I took over 200 snaps today (D-Lux 3) of just Leica stuff!

    Short answer though is I am happy. I'll post when the blog entry is complete... boy do I envy those guys who just post 3 or 4 images and write 100 words. Yesterday's entry was 1600 words. Today isn't looking any shorter.

    David
    David Farkas
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    Re: Leica S Leak

    I agree with what Dave said, but also what Eric said about Leica customer support.

    The S2 could well fit my shooting needs, but Leica would need to ensure that there it is backed up with customer service and timely repair.

    Currently, dropping off equipment for CLA or repair at Leica Allendale results in 3-4 months waiting period; Leica just told me that this week. It took them one week to assign an internal ticket number to my items, and Colleen presented that as big process to me. Took them only 5 biz days to enter my repair items into their system! No status tracking of course.

    Dave, I have no doubt that you and other competent Leica dealers can provide top-notch dealer service.

    BUT what you folks (dealers) need to emphasize with Leica is the service issue. If my equipment needs repair, you can't fix it, Photovillage can't fix it. Right now this means "disaster" if your Leica gear is your primary gear. If Leica wants to be (again) more than a hobbyist brand, that needs to be addressed.

    The 24mm-lux e.g. seems perfect for my event & portrait work.
    I am hesitating to pre-order, since getting my existing M lenses to focus properly would have taken months with Leica. I had to go to DAG for a reasonable turnaround time.

    With a high-tech system like a S2, there is no DAG or equivalent external option. Leica simply needs to get its act together in NJ. You folks on the dealer side should push that with Kaufmann and co. The current situation is active "sales prevention".

    Peter

  4. #154
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    Re: Leica S Leak

    Okay what mount is this or is it new
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Leica S Leak

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Okay what mount is this or is it new
    New mount. Leica S-Mount.

    Wrapping up the blogging.... 3300 words today... if only I were being paid by the word, maybe I could get myself a nice S2 after Photokina is done.

    Seriously, just about there and lots of good info.

    David
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  6. #156
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    Re: Leica S Leak

    Finally done with Day 1.

    Check out the blog for detailed hands-on with the S2 and other goodies.

    It is 6:30 AM here! I need to sleep.

    David
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    Re: Leica S Leak

    Dave,
    I thank you for your blog - definitely some information there that I couldn't find elsewhere.

    I've never dealt with you but gather you have a great working relationship with your customers. I've bought a number of things from Camerawest which is my closest Leica dealer. Certainly if I walk in or call, they know who I am but when I have a problem with a piece of leica equipment, as I did, they recommend sending it in to the factory. Is your shop different? When you sell the S2 how will you handle service issues such as those that came up with the M8's? Do you know yet what Leica intends to offer in terms of warrantee?
    Eric

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    Re: Leica S Leak

    +1. Thank you for your excellent blog.

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    Re: Leica S Leak

    +1 Thanks for the very informative blog overview

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    Re: Leica S Leak

    David - read the blog. Nice info. Well done.

    Looks like a very well-designed piece of kit. In all honesty, assuming it all works out well and lives up to your initial impressions once in production, if I were in the market for a new Leica DSLR I'd probably forgo any future R10 and save my pesos for the S2.

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    Re: Leica S Leak

    Nice report David .pretty much all the stuff i wanted to hear and could use. it sounds very Phase like the back setup which I do like a lot. I also love the focusing slip differential and the setup with buttons for on and off. Did not hear on mirror lockup though. Shutter lag as you mentioned sounded very good. Wonder if it comes with a hand strap ala DMR . Please bring that up to them. The DMR was the best hand strap EVER. Please relay that message. Tell Christian and Stefan and the rest of the gang hello from Jack and I and the GetDPI gang. Also I am ready to test one. LOL

    Also if they can start a release date on all the products associated with the S2 so we can plan ahead.

    Also relay this and this is a issue. We need to know service and replacement plans or this will not fly very well.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  12. #162
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    Re: Leica S Leak

    Excellent Blog info. The dual mirror cards is really good news. One center AF point is not.

    On manual focus ... is there confirmation in the viewfinder like with Hassey and Mamiya?

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    Re: Leica S Leak

    Thanks David,
    I kept hitting refresh last night and finally think I may have gone to sleep before you. Well done with all of the info. While I don't see an S2 in my future (OK maybe used when the S3 comes out) it is nice to get a glimpse of the future platform. I love the look of the S2 and shrink down the same design for the R10 and the d700 that I said I could live with for a long time could even be history. I love the simplicity of my M8 and it seems like that continues to be the mentality. Use the same Maestro chip in a R10 and I bet it would be super speedy!

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    Re: Leica S Leak

    Excellent work David! We're lucky to have such an inquisitive and knowledgeable link to the show. Thank you.

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    Re: Leica S Leak

    Thank you David. A nice read.

    - Ditto to what Guy asks, where is the mirror lockup? In Menu? I hope it is analogue like on the R9/DMR, it is one of my most loved features for ease of use.

    - Marc, according to the Leica S2 site, manual focus is confirmed by an "electronic sharpness alert", hopefully they mean in the viewfinder.

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    Re: Leica S Leak

    David reports in his blog the Leica lens designer Peter Karbe believes the S lenses might be the best Leica has ever produced. If this is so then we are in for a real treat. Hopefully they can keep prices down because they are sharing components for the lenses.

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    Re: Leica S Leak

    Great report David. Thank you. You managed to capture a lot of info important to prospective users in your short time with the camera.

    I do have one question although it may sound dumb. Since Leica introduced an entirely new format with the S2, why don't they simply designate the focal length of the lenses as a format specific focal length instead of a 35mm equivalent? Leica started from scratch with this format and the S2 lenses cannot be used on any other camera/format so it would make sense to break with tradition, reinforce the innovation of a new format, and designate the lenses specifically to the format. It is just a thought.

    Mark

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    Re: Leica S Leak

    Thanks to everyone who is following the blog and my time here at Photokina. Your positive comments are all appreciated and keep me blogging into the wee hours in leiu of sleep or food.

    You've probably seen video now of Justin and Christian with the S2. You will notice that they are making a point to clear up as much confusion as possible regarding the still developing Phase deal. According to Christian this will all be sorted out shortly after the show. Just hang tight for now.

    Mark, the focal length is just that. Medium format lenses are measured the same way 35mm or 4/3 system lenses are. Just divide the focal length by 1.25 to get the 35mm FF equiv. for S system lenses. So the 70 is a 56. The 35 is a 28. The 180 is 144. And the 120 macro is a 96.

    Guy, the handstrap is already in the works. You know what a fan I am of the DMR hand strap. Of course I asked this yesterday.

    Regarding the S&S: Leica hasn't released any details on this yet. I wouldn't even try to assume what the warranty is like or how they will handle pro support. What I do know is that the camera seems to be very robust and reliable. Christian just told me today that since the show started none of the 20 prototypes brought to show have frozen, failed, or freaked out. They are being handled by hundreds of people who have no qualms about taking the battery out while powered on, dismounting lenses, playing with every concievable menu option and custom button, etc. And not one has had a problem. And the camera still has 8-9 more months of development. This is a seriously solid product and Leica deserves some credit.

    Remember, Leica didn't design all the internals of the M8 - Jenoptik played a very large role in this. The blame for initial sensor board issues, sudden death, etc. don't rest solely on Leica's shoulders, but an established MFDB company as well. I remember at PMA quite a few years ago playing with a prototype DMR just a few months before release. It was buggier than a roach motel. The back kept dying and had to be reset, the images were a joke, and it was super slow. Again, Imacon (an established MFDB manufacturer) designed the DMR. So, I see partnerships with two experienced MFDB companies producing cameras with issues. Then, I see a very stable (5 day old, to boot!) prototype designed and built 100% by Leica. Oh and not just one, but 20! All working perfectly. Let me say this again: give Leica some credit here. They've certainly earned it.

    I spent a considerable amount of time today with Peter Karbe and you can tell he is super pleased with the S lens performance. He gets this smirk everytime he talks about them and can't stop saying how the new 120 APO macro blows away the 100 APO R macro and how Leica used every trick in the bag from exotic glass with anamolous partial dispersion, to floating elements, to brand new mechanics, etc. to put the S lenses in a whole new class. He also keeps muttering that they are so much better than the M lenses, half of which he designed himself! Leica is making a statement with their lenses, that is for sure.

    I have to finish up my blog and get to bed early tonight.

    Thanks again for all the support. I really appreciate it and will keep working hard to bring you guys the most in-depth info available.

    David
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    Re: Leica S Leak

    Quote Originally Posted by dfarkas View Post
    Mark, the focal length is just that. Medium format lenses are measured the same way 35mm or 4/3 system lenses are. Just divide the focal length by 1.25 to get the 35mm FF equiv. for S system lenses. So the 70 is a 56. The 35 is a 28. The 180 is 144. And the 120 macro is a 96.
    David, I understand focal length is a physical dimension. However, I figure nothing is sacred when you design a new photographic format system from the ground up. I guess that is too far outside the box. Thank you for the follow-up and additional info.

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    Re: Leica S Leak

    Mark -- what exactly do you mean? A format specific focal length? As David said -- a 70mm lens is a 70mm lens no matter what format it is on. The format will dictate the angle of view, but not the focal length. A 70mm on the S2 will act like a normal lens.

    David -- I wanted to ask you about Peter Karbe and the 75 lux -- you said he didn't like it...can you elaborate? I am not sure I can trust someone who doesn't like the 75 lux...
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    Re: Leica S Leak

    Stuart, perhaps a better way of stating it would be to ask why don't they label the lens with the effective focal length rather than the actual focal length. The actual focal length of a lens isn't so important when there are no other camera formats that can be used. in this case, the effective focal length is all that really matters. At least that is what I was thinking. Perhaps someone can enlighten me.

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    Re: Leica S Leak

    Well, I guess the effective focal length only matters if you are used to shooting 35mm. If you are used to medium format, you read 70mm and think "that's a normal lens" you see a 180 and say, "ah, a portrait lens". Medium format shooters are used to this -- 35-45mm is a super wide, a 50mm is a wide, a 70-90 a normal, 120 is the standard macro, 150-180 are the standard portrait lenses.

    Another reason is that effective focal length is nebulous concept -- if they later change the size of the sensor, they would need to relabel all the lenses and so on -- it just makes more sense to use the actual, physical focal length like every other format (4/3rds to 20x24).
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  23. #173
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    Re: Leica S Leak

    Better than a 100 Apo Macro R or that the recent M lenses? I believe Peter Karbe of course but I'm just having a hard time imagining what can be better than "perfect"

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    Re: Leica S Leak

    Looking at David's photos....the S2 looks to be about the size of a Pentax 67 (or a bit smaller), as best I can tell. Looks like a great camera.

    If only Pentax had taken the 67 down this road.....

    Gary Benson
    Eagle River, Alaska

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    Re: Leica S Leak

    The lenses already have me wiping drool from my keyboard. Once again, great work David - some of the best info we've had from the show.

  26. #176
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    Re: Leica S Leak

    Quote Originally Posted by bensonga View Post
    Looking at David's photos....the S2 looks to be about the size of a Pentax 67 (or a bit smaller), as best I can tell.
    As it is not that bigger than a Nikon D700, I was under the impression it was much smaller than a Pentax 6x7.

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    Re: Leica S Leak

    Quote Originally Posted by pascal_meheut View Post
    As it is not that bigger than a Nikon D700, I was under the impression it was much smaller than a Pentax 6x7.
    It looks smaller than a DMR, but bigger, maybe wider than a R9 with winder (not motor).

    Robert

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    Re: Leica S Leak

    it is smaller than the pentax 6x7 !
    and agree with robsteve

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    Re: Leica S Leak

    David,

    Congratulations on a fantastic effort and very informative BLOG.

    Pete

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    Re: Leica S Leak

    David, It is grate that you talked to Peter Karbe; I would have so many questions to him. Do you think there is any possibility that he could assist in an optics workshop so that we can understand a bit more this lenses? or at least a one day conference with q&a?

    I would also like to ask him if he thinks the S system could be made as a super platform for M,R,S and MS lenses?

    I started a thread where I try to encourage it. I hope that you can take a look at it and maybe see what Mr. Kaber thinks of the idea.

    http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-...r-like-s1.html

    Thankyou for the blog and I hope to someday buy an S2 Modular System (DMS) from you as I once bought the DMR from you also.

    Regards, Geronimo

    PS: Guy & Jack, if we ever have this optics workshop I an the first in line.
    Last edited by gero; 25th September 2008 at 09:38.

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    Re: Leica S Leak

    Quote Originally Posted by pascal_meheut View Post
    Better than a 100 Apo Macro R or that the recent M lenses? I believe Peter Karbe of course but I'm just having a hard time imagining what can be better than "perfect"
    Both the 180/2 and the 180/2.8 have already topped the 100 Macro. Additionally, the 280/4 beats both the 180's! So if the S lenses are the best ever from Leica then Leica must be re-defining perfect, as you suggest Pascal.

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    Re: Leica S Leak

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    REPAT after me . I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.I WILL NOT BE THE FIRST ONE TO GET ONE.
    Hi Guy
    Having read David's blog, and looked at the camera and the specifications.
    Frankly I don't see that you have a chance

    Poor You!

    (mind you, I'm already weakening!).

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Leica S Leak

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    Mark -- what exactly do you mean? A format specific focal length? As David said -- a 70mm lens is a 70mm lens no matter what format it is on. The format will dictate the angle of view, but not the focal length. A 70mm on the S2 will act like a normal lens.

    David -- I wanted to ask you about Peter Karbe and the 75 lux -- you said he didn't like it...can you elaborate? I am not sure I can trust someone who doesn't like the 75 lux...
    Let me clarify. He felt that a 1.4 aperture isn't practical for a 75mm lens and that too many sacrifices had to be made. Considering he personally designed the 75 APO Cron to replace the aging Lux, I'd tend to think he prefers that one. And though he didn't say so, I would venture to guess that he likes the 50 Lux ASPH better than the pre-ASPH. Just a guess.

    Don't sweat it. If you like the 75 Lux, use it. Simple as that.

    David
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    Re: Leica S Leak

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi Guy
    Having read David's blog, and looked at the camera and the specifications.
    Frankly I don't see that you have a chance

    Poor You!

    (mind you, I'm already weakening!).

    Your toast my friend , just plan on it. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Leica S Leak

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi Guy
    Having read David's blog, and looked at the camera and the specifications.
    Frankly I don't see that you have a chance

    Poor You!

    (mind you, I'm already weakening!).
    If anyone wants to be on the short list, let me know soon. Demand is certainly heating up. If Guy waits any longer to commit, he'll actually have to wait until other people get the camera first.



    All kidding aside, I am starting a list due to popular demand. If you want to be on my list for any of the new stuff (S, R, or M) let me know and I'll pencil you in. If anyone wants to know more details about the camera, just give me a call when I get back to the US (Oct 1) and I'll be happy to discuss my impressions with you. 800-327-1776

    Also, as a bonus... anyone that buys an S2 from me is invited to get a hands-on, one-on-one training session with me at my shop in Florida when you take delivery of the camera. And really, who doesn't want to be in South Florida in the summer! Well, at least we have good A/C down there. For those that don't want the added expense of travelling to FL to pick up their camera, I will, as usual, be available to walk you through everything on the phone or by email.

    David
    David Farkas
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    Re: Leica S Leak

    David,

    Very, very nice job on the blog and your reportage of the event. There will be no way Leica can give Phase an exclusive on the S2 after such a display of dealer dedication.

    Kurt

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    Re: Leica S Leak

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Your toast my friend , just plan on it. LOL
    I've just been climbing hills in Crete . . . .
    Catch me if you can

    David, it's a nice offer, but a trip to Florida to visit your shop would cost almost as much as the camera!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Leica S Leak

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    I've just been climbing hills in Crete . . . .
    Catch me if you can

    David, it's a nice offer, but a trip to Florida to visit your shop would cost almost as much as the camera!
    I bet you could find a flight for under 300 Pounds and if you buy a S2, I sure Dale labs might just help with the hotel bill

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    Re: Leica S Leak

    Quote Originally Posted by robsteve View Post
    I bet you could find a flight for under 300 Pounds and if you buy a S2, I sure Dale labs might just help with the hotel bill
    Hi there
    Of course, you're right . . . . . but don't you think if I came to Florida then Guy might be able to get at me?
    I suspect he's much bigger than I am!

    Just this guy you know

  40. #190
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    Re: Leica S Leak

    5 foot 8 inches when I jump.

    You come to the states i am flying over to your destination for sure. Jack and I will be there with bells on and a empty glass to fill up for sure.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  41. #191
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Leica S Leak

    BTW folks there is NO R adapter for the new S camera. Can't be done, just in case you missed it on the forums or from Davids reports.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Leica S Leak

    David, I hadn't seen your report on Peter Kaber on the blog. Just for that I bet the trip was worth it. It looks like a grate conversation.

    I really think that if he has more talks with different photographers with diff. styles he could get a better feel for what people want but I guess, us as users, must cope with his stile of designing them. But what is grate about the M is that we get all this history in different designers to work with; even from other companies like canon zeis VL etc... And I would miss all that history in the S system; that is why I would love it if the S2 was open to the M & R like the S1, we would get the hole circle of the lens to play with.

    I still hope we get a chance to get him to a workshop.

  43. #193
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    Re: Leica S Leak

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    5 foot 8 inches when I jump.
    But what about volume - that's what worries me!. . . .


    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    You come to the states i am flying over to your destination for sure. Jack and I will be there with bells on and a empty glass to fill up for sure.
    Keep those bells off, or the glass will stay empty. I can handle most things in life, but men with bells on . . . no thank you!

    Just this guy you know

  44. #194
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    Re: Leica S Leak

    Interesting comments on S2 from EP:

    http://www.imx.nl/photo/Analysis/page119/page119.html

    Looks like in 2006 Lee (the S2's architect) wanted to avoid the heavyweight competition, ever-declining price/performance curves and churn (even worse now) of the DSLR market in which Leica was/is ill-equipped to compete and focus on one where the pace of innovation is slower, IQ matters above all (w.r.t tech features) and the snack bracket better suited Leica.

    Can't fault the logic, the execution will be interesting. As for an R10 - my $0.02 is don't hold your breath for early 2010. The logic of (not) entering the traditional DSLR market aside, the S2 will make or break Leica in the eyes of non-Leicaphiles. It is a bet-the-firm product.

    Management, if smart, will focus ALL it's non-M efforts on overcoming the myriad of challenges ahead of the S2 (production, S&S, rental shop penetration, distribution, etc) and proving the S2 (and the company behind it) can play in the 'pro' market once again. If the S2 fails to hit escape velocity, the R10 will die with it and whether an R10 shoulda, coulda, woulda will be the least of everyone's issues.

    Once the S2 is proven a success, trickling-down some of it's S2 tech to a small volume (in the DSLR scheme of things) mini-S (cropped sensor, higher fps for non-studio shooters) or 'R10' will capitalize on an established and proven product (and service changes?) vs. having two unproven inter-linked products from a manufacturer with a lot of (non-Leicaphile) customer perceptions to overcome.

    Selling (and supporting) 1000 successful and endorsed S2s will do more for Leica's reputation and perceived value as a vendor (and thus long-term financials) than selling 5000 R10s and I think/hope management realizes that.

    On top of everything else, the more I look at the 35mm < x< MFDB or 'tweener concept and how I think it's going to heat up shortly via CaNikon, I do think 35mm FF will begin to be pushed down the stack of popularity.

    A couple of years ago 35mm FF was the holy grail. But it's been done, the tech is getting illy-cheap (e.g. 5DII) and manufacturers are starting to scrape the bottom of the barrel trying to improve the high-count 24x36mm S/N ratio (e.g.micro lenses, more transparent RGB filters, amplifier power, endless firmware signal manipulation, etc).

    Toss onto the ever-improving 'affordability' of larger-sensor MFDB kits and I think a lot of pro/pro-sumer folks (self included) will REALLY like the idea of a modestly larger than 35mm sensor that enables a high MP count yet a clean S/N ratio and expanded DR - even at the expensive of say frame rate, etc. If CaNikon are stupid enough to leave an AA filter on their upcoming 'tweener entrants - well instant competitive advantage to the S2.
    Last edited by robmac; 26th September 2008 at 04:25.

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    Re: Leica S Leak

    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    If CaNikon are stupid enough to leave an AA filter on their upcoming 'tweener entrants - well instant competitive advantage to the S2.
    Are their any CMOS sensors in any of these cameras that do not have the AA filter? The first Canon 1-series had a CCD sensor....not great for noise, but very good for color, detail, and DR at that time. So, if the fabs keep churning out CMOS type sensors that have better high ISO performance (what many have asked for), but seem to need that AA filter for whatever reason, there may continue to be a "gap" of sorts.....CCD not as good at higher ISO, but great for a lot of the other things, and CMOS great at higher ISO, but not the best looking for the other things all the time. Just curious how this will play out.

    As an aside, I just did some natural light baby portraits yesterday shooting the 1DsMkII w/ 24-70 f2.8L and the M8 with 50/1.0 lens. Both sets of shots look very good, but it is interesting that the client kept liking the M8 shots for their "color detail" (her words), compared to the higher res 1DsMkII shots. Admittedly, there is a big difference in the glass, but my 24-70 is very good and I was shooting at its sweetspot of f4, and the Noct at f2-2.8, but in the files things just look "nicer" from the CCD in the M8. This is one of the reasons why I keep looking at MF and now the S2, as none of the CMOS cameras (Canon, Nikon, Sony) seem to have that same look, even at ISO 100-200. Hard to describe, but most know what I am talking about.

    LJ

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    Re: Leica S Leak

    You raise an interesting point re: CCD and CMOS. There is something about CCD color.

    That said, uber-ISO performance ("I don't need to learn about light or need no stinkin' tripod...or about managing skinny DoF..") seems to have become the 'must have' over absolute IQ and scene reproduction these days with the average photog.

    It will be interesting to see if any MFDB players eventually move to CMOS to give themselves an ISO advantage - and/or if some bright lights at Kodak, Dalsa develop a package for CaNikon (much like for the S2) to play with when they enter the 'tweener market.

  47. #197
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    Re: Leica S Leak

    The S2's sensor uses an RGBI pattern rather than the Bayer pattern, which according to Kodak improves sensitivity (i.e., less noise at higher ISO).

  48. #198
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    Re: Leica S Leak

    Cool - thanks Doug. Should check out the Kodak news release. It will be interesting to see how far Kodak sells the tech in that sensor. While the sensor itself will be exclusive to Leica, the technology that it carriers will be Kodak proprietary.

    interesting times ahead.

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    Re: Leica S Leak

    I hope the S2 designers add LiveView by ship date. A camera like this I would permanently mate to a tripod and thusly manual focus for absolute precision. If the viewfinder is not precision matte how would this be achieved otherwise?

  50. #200
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    Re: Leica S Leak

    Is there a MSRP or "Street Price" List for the Leica S2 Camera Body, Lenses, Etc. posted yet?

    Thanks,

    Joe

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