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Thread: M10 to be Announced?

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    Quote Originally Posted by emr View Post
    IIRC a Leica big shot mentioned in an interview last year that they're indeed bringing a camera line below M series, something that can use M lenses (with or without an adapter?).
    Yes indeed - there was an interview in BJP about it. But it doesn't alter my point!

    Quote Originally Posted by rrdiaz30 View Post
    Lets hope that it is not a re-badged Lumix DMC-GX-1.

    +1 for a B&W version of the M9.

    Rick
    HI Rick
    Let's hope not . . . I think they said that it would have at least an APSc sized sensor, so that kind of rules out Panasonic.

    all the best

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    The answer really to that question is have they moved into the new facilities yet and I am kicking myself since I can't remember the name of the town and I stayed there for several days.

    Had to look it up Wetzlar
    HI Guy
    I don't think they've moved to Wetzlar yet - I think production moves at the end of 2013.

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post


    HI Rick
    Let's hope not . . . I think they said that it would have at least an APSc sized sensor, so that kind of rules out Panasonic.

    all the best
    Although, a true B&W camera based on Panasonic's 16MP NMOS sensor (from the GH-2) would be just terrific!

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    This may be a bit off topic, but why is it that people often wish a true B&W sensor? What's there to be gained compared to a colour Bayer sensor and converting the images to B&W?

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    Quite simply, better sensitivity and DR. Google achromatic+ and check out the info related to it.
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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    Quote Originally Posted by emr View Post
    This may be a bit off topic, but why is it that people often wish a true B&W sensor? What's there to be gained compared to a colour Bayer sensor and converting the images to B&W?
    Hi There
    Well, the answer is in your question.
    With a Bayer filter the camera does a demosaicing process, combining groups of 4 pixels and then comparing them with adjacent pixels, and then coming to an arrangement. . . . it's very good at it, but basically, even without an AA filter, the pixels you get are the result of a lot of calculations.

    With a monochrome sensor, none of this is necessary, each pixel is what it is, you might assume you get 4 times the resolution, but Bayer logic is very good, and you'll probably find that you get about 2 times the resolution with a B&W sensor to a colour sensor with the equivalent pixel count.

    Add to that that no filter means that the high ISO is increased, not sure how much ISO a Bayer filter equates to, but it's bound to be 2 or 3 stops.

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    A 2-3 stop gain is entirely possible without the Bayer dyes and if microlenses are present.

    I thought Ricoh/Pentax would be the first to do it but if Leica do that, fine. I would like one like many others.

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    I'd buy one, but no LCD means no way of inputting menu settings - and it can't be done through an optical viewfinder either.

    Chris

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    Quote Originally Posted by chrism View Post
    I'd buy one, but no LCD means no way of inputting menu settings
    It's a tantalizing and interesting concept:

    The beauty of a truly digital version of a B&W film camera, is that there need not be any menus

    Other than the traditional shutter and ISO dials what else is really needed ?

    DNG + jpeg only
    No color balance
    Exposure compensation only via ISO
    No bracketing
    One wind-on mode - perhaps even mechanical
    Card format only using a protected action slide switch under the base plate

    The film counter could be in the same place as a film M - but would be a LCD like the M8. The R lever on the front of the film M could be a switch to toggle between battery life and frame count.

    To keep the body as thin as a film M, the lens flange could be extended slightly, like a mirror box, keeping the rest of the body depth down.

    I'm sure a M10 digital retro MP look-alike with a optical RF and no LCD could be do-able IF they so chose. But the possibility of an EVF based M mount seems more realistic ... as well as sooner or later a true M9 replacement - perhaps that is the M11

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    I also like old cameras and I like a simple user interface but specially if light gets difficult I find image display/check and histogramm important.

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    B&W, no LCD, higher res, better high ISO, hmmmm... i am sooooooooo in lust

    now if only they had it in a smaller and thinner body (like a film M), quieter shutter and manual re-cock, i'd be over the moon!

    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    B&W, no LCD, higher res, better high ISO, hmmmm... i am sooooooooo in lust

    now if only they had it in a smaller and thinner body (like a film M), quieter shutter and manual re-cock, i'd be over the moon!

    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
    You'll get a free Loch Ness Monster with each camera.

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    You'll get a free Loch Ness Monster with each camera.
    as long as i actually get to go to Loch Ness and have my fill of West Coast Dublin prawns, i'm game!

    ETA: i just realised -- i already have one. sleep with him every night

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    Or it might be a new film camera?

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    as long as i actually get to go to Loch Ness and have my fill of West Coast Dublin prawns, i'm game!

    ETA: i just realised -- i already have one. sleep with him every night
    That didn't come for free though, did it?

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    If any maker has a market for a super high quality B&W camera that has twice the res and several more stops of speed then the color M it's Leica. Not as a replacement M but as an option -one of its limited edition specialty products. I bet they would sell out quickly.
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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hank Graber View Post
    If any maker has a market for a super high quality B&W camera that has twice the res and several more stops of speed then the color M it's Leica. Not as a replacement M but as an option -one of its limited edition specialty products. I bet they would sell out quickly.
    40% of my best images after I process the dng's are b&w so, for me, it be a grate complement to the M9.

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    Quote Originally Posted by kweide View Post
    They will announce their new camera line which is below the M9. Adressing the smaller wallet. Something like the new Fuji X Pro 1. APS Sensor and Leica M mount....
    interest = 0 for me if it is not a FF
    Last edited by erick.boileau; 25th March 2012 at 09:57.
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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    The B/W Leica is coming.

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    haha my guess is an aluminium m9-s with EVF and CMOS FF. Then later in the year they announce a brass/magnesium M10 hybrid EVF allowing both live view and mechanical rangefinder. Potential for both mounts to support a new line of M lenses with electrical contacts while maintaining backward compatibility.
    Both bodies similar in size to M9.

    M9-s ~$3500
    M10 ~$6995

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    don't attack me for this but I did hear a week or two ago one degree of separation that there will be an announcement soon of an M10, live view, 24mp sensor, optional viewfinder (assume that means EVF?), video capability, better LCD. I almost didn't want to add this post, but hey, maybe I'm just being used as a puppet...

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    I hope the M10 will be announced in May ... Though I definitely wouldn't need the video or live view.

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    Quote Originally Posted by silverlight99 View Post
    don't attack me for this but I did hear a week or two ago one degree of separation that there will be an announcement soon of an M10, live view, 24mp sensor, optional viewfinder (assume that means EVF?), video capability, better LCD. I almost didn't want to add this post, but hey, maybe I'm just being used as a puppet...
    One can only hope.

    -Bill

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    It does not matter who makes the sensor (they have been around for a long time), I hope I can get my hands on the monochrome cam.

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    It does not matter who makes the sensor (they have been around for a long time), I hope I can get my hands on the monochrome cam.
    Vivek, anytime

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?


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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    Well I've got my name at the top of a list for the B&W "M" at a reputable dealer. I'll have to PX one of my MPs, one of my M7s and an M5 to do it, but if it happens I'm prepared! And all my correspondence about it has included the word "if" so don't read anything into the fact he has a list....

    Chris

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    Kodak traditionally offered their sensors in both monochrome and color versions. The KAF-10500 broke that tradition, was only offered with a color Bayer-pattern mosaic filter. That CCD was sold only to Leica, and at the time wanted to sell color versions of the camera. It is not hard to produce both, just leave the color dye out of the process. Camera firmware- requires that the firmware be aware if the detector is color or monochrome. The Kodak DCS100, DCS200, DCS400 series, DCS600 series, and DCS700 series cameras offered both color and monochrome versions. The firmware and associated drivers worked with both color and monochrome sensors.

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    The whole article is in B&W....Thorsten is in the know, so that's what we are getting. A B&W M9 or M10 prequel...should be a fun camera!
    Ashwin Rao
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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    Quote Originally Posted by silverlight99 View Post
    don't attack me for this but I did hear a week or two ago one degree of separation that there will be an announcement soon of an M10, live view, 24mp sensor, optional viewfinder (assume that means EVF?), video capability, better LCD. I almost didn't want to add this post, but hey, maybe I'm just being used as a puppet...
    Or maybe you just described the X2... (you never mentioned it having a rangefinder)

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    I am amazed how much one can write about something without telling anything about it
    I dont mean this as critism but I have allways been more a technical guy browsing text for facts and I could never ever write such nice "lyrcis" even though I enjoy to read it.

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    Quote Originally Posted by ashwinrao1 View Post
    The whole article is in B&W....Thorsten is in the know, so that's what we are getting. A B&W M9 or M10 prequel...should be a fun camera!
    A B&W Leica M what-ever number, is a dream come true for me.

    I placed my standing order at my Leica dealer already. I don't think the M10 will be announced on the 10th.

    -Marc

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    I liked the idea of moving the sensor to focus. Specially for wide angles which have a small distance to travel.

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    Well it certainly reads like a B&W M (9 or 10) will be announced.

    It would be a very limited market design, so justifying the cost will be a stretch for most people.

    Just how much can you ask for such a design, especially when a 36MP state of the art Nikon is less than 50% of the price ???

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seascape View Post

    Just how much can you ask for such a design, especially when a 36MP state of the art Nikon is less than 50% of the price ???
    The 36MP Nikon is not a monochrome camera.

    I wish I could buy the rumored monochrome camera for $3,000/piece (i would take 2). But I think it would be more like $7-8,000.

    Even at that price, it would sell because there is no competition.

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    The 36MP Nikon is not a monochrome camera.

    I wish I could buy the rumored monochrome camera for $3,000/piece (i would take 2). But I think it would be more like $7-8,000.

    Even at that price, it would sell because there is no competition.
    I agree Vivek, as I remember the Phase One B&W only back was something like double the price of the P45 back it was developed from. If Leica asks that type of premium for a B&W only camera, it will certainly be a non starter for me.

    For something less than $7-8K I would be very interested.

    However, $3K currently buys a truly superb photographic instrument..........some manufacturers are providing excellent value and class leading performance.

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    <1 week to go!

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    The 36MP Nikon is not a monochrome camera.

    I wish I could buy the rumored monochrome camera for $3,000/piece (i would take 2). But I think it would be more like $7-8,000.

    Even at that price, it would sell because there is no competition.
    I can't imagine any reason why it would be less than an M9 . . . it really isn't the way that Leica works - I'd guess that the real question is whether it's twice the price . . .

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    A B&W Leica M what-ever number, is a dream come true for me.

    I placed my standing order at my Leica dealer already. I don't think the M10 will be announced on the 10th.

    -Marc
    Hey Marc
    I thought your days of beta testing cameras were over? Or are there some things that are just tooooo tantalising!

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hey Marc
    I thought your days of beta testing cameras were over? Or are there some things that are just tooooo tantalising!
    Yep ...

    However, my order is with my Leica dealer of over 20 years, and I already told him I will not brook another M8 surprise, nor accept a M digital camera without an LCD as has been rumored.

    My assumption is that it will be a M9 camera with a new B&W sensor, not some all new camera with associated bugs and foibles.

    We'll see ... my standing order doesn't have any cash attached to it ... and the cash earmarked for such a purchase may evaporate into landscaping expenses if my wife has her way ...

    -Marc

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hey Marc
    I thought your days of beta testing cameras were over? Or are there some things that are just tooooo tantalising!
    Jono,

    When do your beta M10BW files and review hit the web? I am thinking another
    high DR Crete Greek Isles style review...

    And yes my order is in....would make a nice addition to my RED Epic.

    Bob

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    Jono,

    When do your beta M10BW files and review hit the web? I am thinking another
    high DR Crete Greek Isles style review...

    And yes my order is in....would make a nice addition to my RED Epic.

    Bob
    I wish . . . and I wouldn't mind a RED Epic to go with my M10 BW either!

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    I wish . . . and I wouldn't mind a RED Epic to go with my M10 BW either!
    Here is a short test with Zeiss CP.2

    https://vimeo.com/40128671

    Password : M10BW?

    Will disappear in 24 hrs


    Bob
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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Yep ...

    However, my order is with my Leica dealer of over 20 years, and I already told him I will not brook another M8 surprise, nor accept a M digital camera without an LCD as has been rumored.

    My assumption is that it will be a M9 camera with a new B&W sensor, not some all new camera with associated bugs and foibles.

    We'll see ... my standing order doesn't have any cash attached to it ... and the cash earmarked for such a purchase may evaporate into landscaping expenses if my wife has her way ...

    -Marc
    Hopefully, rose colored glasses aren't a necessary accessory in an aspirational monochrome world.

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    Quote Originally Posted by KurtKamka View Post
    Hopefully, rose colored glasses aren't a necessary accessory in an aspirational monochrome world.
    Rose colored pastels to ink the prints may suffice....


    Bob

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    Rose colored pastels to ink the prints may suffice....


    Bob
    I'm thinking I'm going to need a printer that specializes in 'greenbacks' ...

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    Quote Originally Posted by KurtKamka View Post
    Hopefully, rose colored glasses aren't a necessary accessory in an aspirational monochrome world.
    I would have thought you would need sepia coloured glasses with an aspirational B&W camera?

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: M10 to be Announced?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    I would have thought you would need sepia coloured glasses with an aspirational B&W camera?
    They would have to be pinhole glasses as I would need to use it without any lenses ... having sold them all off wisely or unwisely to chase the S dragon.

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