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Thread: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    So I have decided to do the new shutter and frameline upgrade on one of my M8 bodies. I'll keep you all posted as to progress and experience. Not sure if this is the smartest move, so wish me luck!

    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    HI Jack that is my plan as well. Let us know how it goes, hope it goes well for you David

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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    i signed up for the same thing yesterday with NJ, was told they will call for the camera in december, and to allow two weeks turnaround

    jm

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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    I was thinking the same, but would it just be better to get the M8.2 and sell the current M8?

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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    $3500 for the M-8, $6k for the M8.2 net $2,500 diff, vs $1,200 for the upcharges + 1 yr extended warranty

    please feel free to correct my numbers

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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    but you get the really nice 'vulcanite' look cover with the M8-2...-

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    The M8.2 is also black paint, not black anodized. You also get that fancy multi-shot jpeg mode in the M8.2, whatever it is.

    My "logic" (probably seriously flawed) is 1, as John pointed out for $2500 I can either move up to one new body or get both my older bodies done and 2, right now both of my current bodies focus perfectly with all of my lenses and do not exhibit any weirdness on the sensor. Hence I *save* $2500 to stick with what I know works?
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  8. #8
    matmcdermott
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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    I just scheduled mine as well, though putting it off for January as will be gone in December when they wanted to do it. Still considering selling the M8 (plus other gear that I've been meaning to rid myself of) and getting the 8.2 so I may cancel my slot between now and then.

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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    Jack,

    I havent ever updated the original M8 firmware and wouldnt know how to do it. So dont listen to me about updating camera gear - usually I just buy something different cos I am a lazy dawg. -

    I do know that the M8 files stand up to anything in 35mm DSLR land as far as nice happy snap type shots go. So I am keeping my old beater M8. I posted in another thread that Solms was able to fix my 35Asph lux chrome after it suffered a concrete fall and got sticky - so Leica arent all bad!

    Looks like our friend Son is giving me a solution regarding view camera as well. and my Alpa Max is coming ( some time I hope)

    all this is a nice distraction from the real world meltdown which I I wrote about a few months ago on here - fortunately I am just short and dont have to worry too much.. leaving that to other smart guys and gals...

    Pete

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    Super Duper
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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    Jack, I just took delivery of a M8.2. I kept my one of my original M8s and sold the other.

    I wanted to keep the option of 1/8000th shutter on the M8 ... for those really bright conditions with wide open apertures.

    The one feature of the M8.2 that turned out to be more than I had hoped for is the delayed winding ... what I do not quite know is whether the upgrade also has this feature ... on other forums, folks said it does not.

    I cannot tell you how much I like this new feature ... not only is the camera actually quieter than I recall my M7 being ... the process of pressing and holding the button as I turn away simulates the the "time process" of cocking the shutter of an analog M ... it actually effects the shooting experience to be that more decisive, "one shot" timing.

    I also suspect that I can handhold this new M8.2 at a bit lower shutter speed ... (this remains to be seen.) I've set up the M8.2 with a Leica magnifier for the 35/50/90 lenses where I want better hand-held-ability ... and have a 1.15X mag on the other for the 24 & 28mm.

    I am taking both cameras to a wedding tomorrow ... so I'll have first hand, intense experience by Sunday.

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    Hi Marc:

    Yes, I understand the modified body does NOT include the delayed wind option. I had considered that, and it was the only real advantage to buying the M8.2 for me, so decided I'd live without it and save the coin on this go-around.

    Also like you, I was planning on keeping one body with the 1/8000th option for the times I'm shooting my fast glass wide open in daylight -- but even then I realized 1/8000th isn't always enough and an ND gets mounted anyway. At ISO 160, you need ~~ 1/20,000th for a BDE at f1.4, so 1/8000th is still over a stop off. Since I already carry a 3-stop ND, I'm thinking if I prefer the feel and noise of the new shutter, I'll do my second body too and then resign myself to using the 3-stop ND on the fast glass when needed.
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    Jack,
    We are now completely in sync :-)
    -bob

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Jack,
    We are now completely in sync :-)
    -bob
    And does (or should) that surprise either of us?

    ,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    $3500 for the M-8, $6k for the M8.2 net $2,500 diff, vs $1,200 for the upcharges + 1 yr extended warranty

    please feel free to correct my numbers
    The difference is a used camera with less shutter counts left and a new one.

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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    does the upgrade to a new shutter effectively re-set shutter counts to zero?

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    I would think so, since it is an entire new shutter assembly! There are more activations of the sensor however...

    Bottom line, the issues addressed here are why I started the thread the way I did to begin with -- new versus upgrade is not an easy decision.
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    When you get the new shutter do they replace the top dial or does the 1/8000 stay but shoot at 1/4000?

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    I don't know, but would assume you get a new dial as part of your $1200 I'll let you know in a few weeks!
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  19. #19
    nei1
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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    This is all way out of my league but had it been me Id have gone the other way and sold one of the M8"s and bought a M8-2.The way youve done it seems to me youve burned youre bridges,paid out a lot of money and still got 2 ageing cameras.Personally Id love to be able to afford one of those aging cameras but such is life.I have two film leicas an M6 and an M4-2 ,not worth a great deal but I dont think I could sell either.mind you Im spending a lot on lottery tickets,all the best,Neil.

  20. #20
    K3N
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    Smile Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    When you get the new shutter do they replace the top dial or does the 1/8000 stay but shoot at 1/4000?
    The top dial gets replaced with a new dial. There is a new 8s at the slow end to replace the 1/8000s. The new dial doesn't have the S mode, which the Leica M8.2 has.

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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    I am a lot less worried about actuations on the sensor than on an electro-mechanical shutter. Electronics are ridiculously durable.
    -bob

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    Super Duper
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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    I thought you had given up on M Leica for good Marc? I know I would have after your experiences...
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    And FWIW, it is some of those other "experiences" we've heard about that tipped the scales in favor of me upgrading a body I know is good over buying new
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  24. #24
    Artorius
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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    This is all way out of my league but had it been me Id have gone the other way and sold one of the M8"s and bought a M8-2.The way youve done it seems to me youve burned youre bridges,paid out a lot of money and still got 2 ageing cameras.Personally Id love to be able to afford one of those aging cameras but such is life.I have two film leicas an M6 and an M4-2 ,not worth a great deal but I dont think I could sell either.mind you Im spending a lot on lottery tickets,all the best,Neil.
    I don't quite understand your phrase "still got 2 aging cameras". The only REAL difference between the two after the upgrade, is the delayed wind shutter, and the Snapshot mode, and the lower flash sync. The sensor, and all the hardware are the same. I am not including the Vulcanite, frame lines or the Black Paint options.
    As for me, just before my warranty expires next year, I will probably do the shutter and frame lines. For now though, I am really happy with the way my M8 has been handling for the last year.

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    Subscriber Member mwalker's Avatar
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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    I agree with your logic Jack, I too will do the upgrade. For $1200 you get more warranty, the new shutter, frame line benefits and when and if the M9 comes along some of that upgrade cost may come back on a trade or sell.
    Last edited by mwalker; 12th October 2008 at 06:36.
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  26. #26
    nei1
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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    Art,I supose different things have more or less relevance depending on how you work.The only thing worth paying for from my perspective is the delayed wind on,Im forgetting though how few moving parts the M8 has.,all the best,Neil.

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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    Hi Jack
    Me too.
    I'll do it on my silver one (which is nearly 2 years old). My black one runs out of warranty next March, so I'll have a try with one and then see. I've also used 1/8000 quite a lot, but I can't remember really needing more (mind you we do live in England!)

    I'd like the shutter re-cock option, but I'm not fussed about the other options on the M8.2 (and I'm not that fussed about the recock either . . . hiding the camera in your clothes after each shot can be as ostentatious as the 'ptoing' of the shutter recocking!

    Just this guy you know

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    Subscriber Member Chuck Jones's Avatar
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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    Me? I'm keeping mine exactly the way it is. For my work, it is the perfect artist tool. I'll likely add an M 8.2 as soon as I can afford it both as my second body, and as a different artistic tool.

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    Super Duper
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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    So are you guys doing the shutter and framelines but not the display?

    I have a hard time to make a decision here, between upgrading the shutter only, or shutter and framleines or all three or just getting a M8.2
    However a loss of 2000 is really crazy and hard to justify.
    The noisy shutter however has never totally satusfied me.
    Now if one let make the shutter its only 200 extra for the frame lines... (However I am used to the one of M8 and never had a problem witrh them)
    Now if one has two M8s - one with older frames, one with newer ones-this might feel weird.
    And also if one has one M8 with the quiet shutter-would one want to still use the other body?

    I really dont know what to do. My heart says to replace one of my 2 M8s with the M8.2, but my brain says no way to pay 2000 (or more) for a little less noisy shutter and recock-delay.

    Can anyone comment on the shutter-noise of the modified M8 vs the M8.2?

    I am not that much interested in the 1 year guarantee- My theory is that a camera which didnt fail for 2 years wont fail in the third year anyways.
    Cheers, Tom

  30. #30
    nei1
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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    Could some one illustrate the difference between the old and new frame lines?Is it just them being more accurate at 2m rather than 1m?If thats the case surely if you enjoy wide angle,21mm,24mm,its best to leave them set at 1m.Is there any difference in the frame set which I find confusing to look at? thanks,Neil.

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    I think the difference in framelines is minimal, but will be more accurate for most images. I shoot loose and leave breathing room with the M8 so that wasn't a biggie for me anyway, but I hope to get the framing feel back from the film bodies and am optimistic this mod does that.

    As for the noise, framelines and bodies being different... I have decided to do both of my M8's for that reason -- I want them in synch. The new shutter is quieter and makes a different sound, so call it half the noise or maybe 60% of the old one. The release pressure is also softer and smoother, a welcome bennie IMO. Plus I figure for resale this should help as these bodies will also now be in synch with the M8.2...

    Oh, and to clarify, I am only doing the shutter and framelines, not the LCD cover.
    Jack
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    Subscriber Member mwalker's Avatar
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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    FYI, I just called to schedule mine its a end of November...1st of December cue.
    Mike

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    Sounds like the pipeline is filling fast, glad I got my two slots reserved early!

    ,
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    I get to play with a new M8.2 this afternoon, so I'll let you guys know if I'm upgrading after that. Report to follow.

    Ray

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    I scheduled 2 of my M8 s for the shutter,frames and glass today. They gave me a tentative call date of end of Nov. early Dec. They said they didn t know how quickly they could do the service. The goal though is to only have the cameras for a few weeks once they call for them.

    Seemed like a good idea as we should have some actual experience with the repair verse new by then .

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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    Got to play with an M8.2.

    The framelines are very accurate this time around. The 50/75 lines now are actually useable at all distances. The only thing that I did notice, is that there is a little correction issue of the image taken being shifted slightly right vs. what the frame lines show when in the 1-2 meter range.

    The new shutter and discreet mode were really nice. You set the option in the menu to discreet and it old only winds when you let off the button. Shutter noise without the wind is very similar to my M7.

    The EV comp with the rear dial is very useful. You press the shutter button approx. 1/3 and then spin the wheel, seeing the comp in the VF. Once you press to the half way point the top dot in the VF lights up and the exposure is locked in. Take the picture. The shutter button does seem smoother than my current M8.

    I didn't play with the "S" mode as it doesn't really interest me.

    I have to say that I like all the upgrades alot, but am still struggling on whether they are worth the money to me at this point in time.

    Best,

    Ray

  37. #37
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    AWESOME news Ray, especially on the framelines! Thanks for the update!
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    I just got my M8.2 and I have to say that the shutter in discreet mode is even quieter than my M7. The whirr still happens when you release it, but the click is REALLY quiet. I played with a prototype at PMA earlier in the year and it wasn't this quiet.

    For those interested, the black paint is not as glossy as the MP black paint, but not as matte as the black chrome. I'd say it's right in the middle. The vulcanit is beautiful.

    -Brad

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    Subscriber Member mwalker's Avatar
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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    Instead of updating I decided to buy the M8.2 as well. It should be here next week. I can't really rationalize the extra expense other that if Leica keeps up with the upgrades I'm starting with the second generation.....sapphire back, ev comp, black paint, frame lines, shutter and crap. Maybe sensor upgrades are in the future??
    Mike

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    It's ba-aaaaaack


    And how sweet it is!!! I can say it is so notably quieter and has a much nicer release feel, that coupled with the new framelines that actually now work like my film MP and M7's did, it took me all of twenty minutes to get my second M8 body boxed up and dropped in the FedEx overnight bin!

    I want to use it for few days before I go so far as to say this is a "must do" upgrade, but for my money it is such a notable improvement in three areas the M8 really needed improvement, it already qualifies as a no-brainer...

    Leica gets a big for this one!
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  41. #41
    Senior Subscriber Member Mike Hatam's Avatar
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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    Fantastic news Jack. Sounds like an upgraded M8 is a viable option to an M8.2. I'm going to consider doing this myself.

    Mike
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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    I called Leica NJ today to set up an appt. after going into my dealer and hearing the new shutter. IMO it makes it a whole new camera. And not just because of the decreased decibels but also a major decrease in vibration. Very pleasant (and the way it should have been in the first place). So quiet IMO that the discreet mode really isn't all that big of a deal.

    I also found the new framelines to be quite accurate. Still a bit loose for my taste but really good overall (I only tested a 28 and 50). Overall both I and the dealer felt the build quality of the M8.2 to be slightly better. Hard to put one's finger on what it is exactly - just felt tighter. This was a silver model.

    So I'm doing shutter and framelines. Maybe everything if some clients come through before it heads off.

  43. #43
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    My advice for anybody wanting to do any of the upgrade options is to get your appointment set up well in advance. Leica has been careful to organize the reservation system to insure that each customer is without their camera only for the actual time required to do the update, hence the appointment for a future ship date to start the process. I understand they have been receiving a steady supply of requests, so the lead times may be in flux as these initial orders are being completed.

    Regardless, I can tell you I definitely think it is worth both the time and cost required to participate. As Charles mentioned above, it's basically like getting a whole new camera
    Jack
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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    Well since you insist Jack - I may send my M8 in for the upgrade along with instructions to replace the smashed and dented base plate and top plate and maybe I will ask them to upgrade the firmware at the same time.

    It will do till they bring out the proper FF M8te in a coupel of years time.

  45. #45
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    Ah, the look and feel of battle scars; they do give an M character. I'm not sure I'd have them yanked mate
    Jack
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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    yes - if ther ewas an award for an M8 that no one woudl buy - mine woudl be it..but you are right..I have grown fond of the littel dings and scratches..I liek teh sounds of teh shutter improvement - that and the sill IR issue are the things that bug me the most.

  47. #47
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    FWIW, I use the IR cut filters but do not have lens recognition on. I find it corrects out too much of the original Leica "character" for my tastes. Yes I miss having the exif data tag and I know this is a hugely minority view... But for me it is all about the image and how it looks and prints, and to my tastes leaving lens corrections off give that final image a lot more character
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    FWIW, I use the IR cut filters but do not have lens recognition on. I find it corrects out too much of the original Leica "character" for my tastes. Yes I miss having the exif data tag and I know this is a hugely minority view... But for me it is all about the image and how it looks and prints, and to my tastes leaving lens corrections off give that final image a lot more character
    I think I might try this.

    Incidentally, you just cost me 1300 with all your enthusiasm! (I also got the new LCD, it wasn't so much extra, and mine is scratched).

    I've only done the silver one so far (I do also like the fast shutter for high light situations).

    I've used the 'Express' method in Europe - it wasn't very obvious that it would be quicker, but otherwise they said it would be 'week 50'. . . . and with the pound going the way it is right now, that might just prove more expensive as well!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    Hi Jono:

    I'll be interested to hear what you think of the images after using the IR cut filters with lens recognition off.

    Trust me when I say the $1300 upgrade will be worth the wait
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: So, I'm doing the new shutter...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Hi Jono:

    I'll be interested to hear what you think of the images after using the IR cut filters with lens recognition off.
    I'm interested - it really had never occurred to me. I have filters for all my lenses, because I found that greens for landscapes really weren't okay without them.

    When I've finished playing with my 25mp toy I'll get on the case and have a proper look.

    Of course, it also depends on what Aperture does with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Trust me when I say the $1300 upgrade will be worth the wait
    As an honorable bloke (that's you, not me) I'm assuming that if I don't like it you'll reimburse me? (and it's €1300 not $). Maybe it would be more sensible if you just sent me the money now, and if I like the update I'll send it back to you?

    I paid an extra bit for 'express' they picked it up and whisked it off to Solms this afternoon. I'm rather excited!

    Just this guy you know

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