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Thread: Why the leica Hate?

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    Senior Member dude163's Avatar
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    Why the leica Hate?

    Hi ,

    recently since I opened a google+ account I have had 2 or 3 occasions where people have been quite abrasive and/or insensitive with comments on some of my shots, and it seems to stem from the fact that I own a leica .

    " Owning a leica wont make you a better photographer"
    " Oh a Leica, when is your first gallery opening?"

    I concur with the first statement , but my reply was

    " Will owning a Leica make me a WORSE Photographer?"

    cue tumbleweeds and crickets chirping from the lame-o


    I just wanted to see if anyone else has encountered this, I put it down to envy to be honest, because one of the commenters owns about 20 cameras and I bet if he added up the cost he could buy a M9 with a 50 lux.

    Like I said, I just wanted to get this off my chest as I was a little disappointed more than anything else as one of the people was someone whose shots and photos I actually liked, oh well


    Cheers

    Robert

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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    There are those on each end of the fringe. The "Leica is the one-true path" on one extreme, and "Anybody with a Leica is a poser" on the other. The vocal minority on each side, brought out by the Internet.

    But hey, until Argus comes out with a full-frame Digital version of the C-3, I'll just have to stick with the M9...




    Pass the beer nuts.
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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by dude163 View Post
    Hi ,

    recently since I opened a google+ account I have had 2 or 3 occasions where people have been quite abrasive and/or insensitive with comments on some of my shots, and it seems to stem from the fact that I own a leica .

    " Owning a leica wont make you a better photographer"
    " Oh a Leica, when is your first gallery opening?"

    I concur with the first statement , but my reply was

    " Will owning a Leica make me a WORSE Photographer?"

    cue tumbleweeds and crickets chirping from the lame-o


    I just wanted to see if anyone else has encountered this, I put it down to envy to be honest, because one of the commenters owns about 20 cameras and I bet if he added up the cost he could buy a M9 with a 50 lux.

    Like I said, I just wanted to get this off my chest as I was a little disappointed more than anything else as one of the people was someone whose shots and photos I actually liked, oh well


    Cheers

    Robert
    Robert, I am one who can buy a couple M9s and a whole set of new primes if I wanted. I won't as I do not see why I should waste my money on them.

    The S2 lenses are enchanting but the camera is over priced for what it can deliver.

    The other Panasonic made Leica badged P&S cameras are pointless.

    So, there you have it.

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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    Vivek, I cant tell if you are being serious or not, why would an M9 be a waste of money?

    and a S2 is overpriced compared to what?

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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    Sometimes the internet seems like a sci-fi movie where everyone has the ability to hear what everyone else is thinking. And much of the time, it seems as if everyone is a brat.

    To he#l with them. Enjoy yourself. Buy and shoot whatever camera you want. Your joy is all the justification you need.

    Best,
    Tim
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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by dude163 View Post
    Vivek, I cant tell if you are being serious or not, why would an M9 be a waste of money?

    and a S2 is overpriced compared to what?


    Robert, I am serious and being honest with my opinion. I do not envy nor am my hateful.

    The question is if Leica is relevant today. To me it i really isn't- not as far as photography is concerned.

    However one may write or reason, mirrorless have taken over the RF and the proof is in the pudding. Just look at the number images taken with a NEX or a m4/3rds or a Fuji cam relative to Leica snaps. Some Leica owners tend to claim that despite the NEX-7, or the GH-2 or the X Pro 1 the M9 is the best while keep using the "other" cameras more and more.

    As for the S2, as I said, I am really taken with the lenses. That is about it.

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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    Robert, you are the only one that matters in this situation. You bought a Leica M9 with your money. You are satisfied with your purchase. You enjoy the use of the camera and the results you get with it.

    Opinions of others, in this matter, you should let go unnoticed and in the trash bin.

    It could be envy by some, but then again it could be the result they arrive at by their standards of measurement.

    That in 2012, there exists a camera whose price is high ( relatively speaking )
    with no AF, poor low light performance etc etc does call into question the
    price/performance ratio for a lot of people.

    But for one who, aware of such ' shortcomings ' of an M9, purchases a Leica
    for what brings joy, and results for him/her..other considerations should be treated as noise.

    Noise for some, might be music to others and vice versa.

    Enjoy what you have.
    koffee & kamera
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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by TRSmith View Post
    To he#l with them.
    Yep.

    Post that your pics were taken with a point and shoot.

    Or just block the offenders on G+.

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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    I've never had camera envy hate mail. Sounds fun. Makes me want to buy Leica.

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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Robert, I am serious and being honest with my opinion. I do not envy nor am my hateful.

    The question is if Leica is relevant today. To me it i really isn't- not as far as photography is concerned.

    However one may write or reason, mirrorless have taken over the RF and the proof is in the pudding. Just look at the number images taken with a NEX or a m4/3rds or a Fuji cam relative to Leica snaps. Some Leica owners tend to claim that despite the NEX-7, or the GH-2 or the X Pro 1 the M9 is the best while keep using the "other" cameras more and more.

    As for the S2, as I said, I am really taken with the lenses. That is about it.
    Vivek,
    I agree with your statement about m4/3 and all of the mirror less systems overtaking the RF market - just like the Ford F150 pickup sells more units than a Porsche Carrera S. Both take pictures or get you from point A to B but which is more fun?

    There are only so many hours given in life so enjoy it while you can in the way that you can.

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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    these kind of comments which are mostly completely superfluous may come from two categories of people.

    1. those who don't own a Leica and 2. those who own/owned/sold their Leica and so many times have missed the most magical moments due to habits of the (M)system…

    both parties may not have understood the approach to this system.

    peter

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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    It is like religion. Outsiders will never understand.
    Scott
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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    People can be and will be idiots and the internet makes it annonymous. Who gives a crap what someone thinks of your equipment. It's their issue, not yours. It's the same as digital vs. film, or color vs. B&W... everyone thinks what they use and what they do is the only right path. f em.
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    Re: Why the leica Hate?



    That was my friend's reaction when he found out how much my M8 was.

    Some people think it's silly for me to spend that much on a camera... some people think it's worth it.

    Nobody I know seems to think that buying a Leica means you have more photographic talent though. I think I can understand WHY someone would assume that people who own leicas think they can take better photos.

    Back when I was an all-DSLR shooter, my friends would always go nuts about people with big expensive lenses. They'd assume that once you bought a 70-200/2.8, you were a master of photography. Pair that with a D3s or 1Ds Mk3 and you're god. It seemed like they thought that the more you paid for your stuff, the better your equipment was. And I guess there's some sort of reasoning behind that... if you're better, you can justify more expensive equipment right? So maybe people would assume that you bought a damned expensive Leica because you either have the photographic skills to justify it, or because you think it'll help you take better photos.

    The other issue might be that the photographic crowd that is so obsessed with features sees the Leica cameras as overpriced pieces of junk. I mean, you have to focus with your hands... there's no built in infrared flash trigger, you can't even see what your lens is seeing. But you're paying more for the Leica than you are the Canikon D3s Mk53. Thus, you must be a snob who thinks you're better than the rest because you own a Leica.

    Just my take on it. Maybe I'm wrong.
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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    Thanks for the replies gang , I basically did what everyone has said, I blocked the lamers and I dont care what others think, I just like using my M8 ( not an M9 unfortunately ..) and the photographic process is what intrigues me more than all of the latest whizbang features.

    Heck if I want instant gratification and AF I use instagram on my iPhone, lol

    cheers
    Robert

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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    Blow them away with your images, no matter what you shoot.

    "that is all" (ref: The Devil Wears Prada)
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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    I like to remember what Dick Feinmann said, "Why do you care what other people think?"

    I could care less who thinks I'm a poser or a member of the 'elite cognoscenti' or whatever. I bought the Leica M9 because I feel it is the best camera for what I want to do. I don't care what anyone else thinks of it.

    Yeah, it's expensive. That seems to be the rub for a lot of folks. So what? Lots of things are expensive, it doesn't make them special. And my having one doesn't make me special. It's a camera, that's all. I make my photographs with it, just ilke I make my photographs with other cameras.

    Life's too short to listen to nonsense or take it seriously.
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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by dude163 View Post
    "Owning a leica wont make you a better photographer"
    You can replace "leica" with anything and it will still be true. Like Bob said, I think the images should speak for themselves, and I'd only want to look into the EXIF data about equipment/lens/aperture/iso/shutter, if I like it and want to think about how I would duplicate it.

    I've never find a photo I liked and to only dislike it after I find out it was shot with a certain equipment. It has only made me want it more ;-) Many Nocti shots comes to mind.
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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by dude163 View Post
    Hi ,

    recently since I opened a google+ account I have had 2 or 3 occasions where people have been quite abrasive and/or insensitive with comments on some of my shots, and it seems to stem from the fact that I own a leica .

    " Owning a leica wont make you a better photographer"
    " Oh a Leica, when is your first gallery opening?"

    I concur with the first statement , but my reply was

    " Will owning a Leica make me a WORSE Photographer?"

    cue tumbleweeds and crickets chirping from the lame-o


    I just wanted to see if anyone else has encountered this, I put it down to envy to be honest, because one of the commenters owns about 20 cameras and I bet if he added up the cost he could buy a M9 with a 50 lux.

    Like I said, I just wanted to get this off my chest as I was a little disappointed more than anything else as one of the people was someone whose shots and photos I actually liked, oh well


    Cheers

    Robert
    I havent encountered this problem in "real life", maybe somtimes in the internet people would say its overpriced and for snobs and "the photographer takes the image not the camera".

    For me I mostly use Leica M9 and S2 because those camera systems work best for me, in regards to using them and also in regards to IQ.

    If for other people other cameras work better - fine.
    If those people think to also know what works better for me .. Leave me alone.

    Using a Leica doesnt make one a better photographer. However not using a Leica doesnt make one a better photographer either.
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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    Just keep on doing your thing and enoying photography.... It's really unfortunate as the M system could potetially help a few of these folks become a "better" photographer. Why rule out a sytem one has never even tried?
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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    Hi all, just to clarify, none of the negativity will make me sell the camera, its is one of the coolest things Ive ever owned , withthe bonus that it takes pictures and I have learned a lot about photography and post processing using it.


    One of my closest friends really doesnt *get* the Leica *deal* as he calls it , but when I first got it we went to a coffee shop and when i came back from the washroom this is what I saw:




    HAHAHAHH he says he dislikes Leica , but he didnt put the camera down for 10 minutes, he kept picking it up , focusing, moving the aperture etc made me laugh.


    re: internet only : I think thats the key , everyone assumes they are 100% correct or what they own is the ONLY WAY to do something , and they can get so out of control .

    Im off to edit some shots

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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    PS : that image was with a Pentax KX and a FA50/1.4 wide open

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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    This is with my Leica M8 with the C-Sonnar 50/1.5, set at F4.
    I've had the M8 for over two years now, the M9 for about a year. I keep the C-sonnar on the M8, the M9 has a J-3 on it now.



    I have an Olympus EP-2, introduced after the M9 came out and much newer than the M8, so not "that old" of a camera. The M8 has less than 1/2 of the latency of the EP2.
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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Robert, I am one who can buy a couple M9s and a whole set of new primes if I wanted. I won't as I do not see why I should waste my money on them.
    Hah! Vivek - please define 'waste of money'
    (but I'm pleased to hear you're in such a good financial position - would it stretch to an S2 and a complete set of primes as well? . . . don't answer - just joshing).

    I've just gone through the snaps on our recent trip to China - I had an A77 and a Leica with me all the time, and shot about the same number of shots with each - whereas about 85% of the keepers are with the Leica. (I also had a panasonic G1x, but my wife appropriated that and too some good shots).

    If you 'get' shooting with a rangefinder I don't think there's anything else quite like it - hard to describe, but with everything you do (focus, change the aperture / shutter speed etc) there seems to be a proportional effect - unlike most other cameras (whether ancient or modern) where the effect of your action varies with the circumstances. . . . . I'm describing it badly, but it's like riding a bicycle as opposed to a motor scooter - or wearing a pair of all stars as opposed to walking boots, using focus by wire instead of direct MF; the camera feels like a colleague rather than a slave!

    Robert
    As for the Leica Hate - I guess there are two categories of people - the first is those who are jealous (for one reason or another). I think the biggest group is those who know about photography and are scared and/or scornful that anyone would pay the price of a Nikon D3x to get a camera without AF, Program mode or any of the other 'advantages' of the modern camera.

    all the best

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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    There is another group. Those who are put off by supercilious Leica snobs. The people who respond to any question with "Well, <sigh> there are some who will just never understand." Or "It requires a certain sensitivity to adapt to the process." or the inevitable invocation of HCB and what HE would have thought of your stupid question or..

    Thanks in large part to the people here (who are NOT like that), I overcame my aversion to the brand and went M9. And after a mere 16 months of struggle, it's starting to get easier!

    Best,

    Matt (recovered Leica hater)
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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    There is another group. Those who are put off by supercilious Leica snobs. The people who respond to any question with "Well, <sigh> there are some who will just never understand." Or "It requires a certain sensitivity to adapt to the process." or the inevitable invocation of HCB and what HE would have thought of your stupid question or..

    Thanks in large part to the people here (who are NOT like that), I overcame my aversion to the brand and went M9. And after a mere 16 months of struggle, it's starting to get easier!

    Best,

    Matt (recovered Leica hater)
    Matt, I agree that people here are not like that. People can freely talk about Leica without being attacked by Leica fanboys who cannot tolerate even a slightest criticism of Leica cameras.

    I recently signed up on another forum and was very discouraged by the behavior of various members on that forum. Those who point out some of the weaknesses of Leica cameras are immediately labeled as idiots and are urged to sell their cameras and move on. I do not feel comfortable participating on the other form anymore but still plan to get a M9 soon.

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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    The M is terrible value. There's so much you don't get for all the $$$ you pay. No AF, slow FPS, tiny buffer, slow card write speed, parallax issues, no live view, etc... I have several other cameras, mirrorless and DSLRs and most of those are "better" than my M9 in many ways. All that said, the camera I get the most satisfaction from using is the M9 and those wonderful M lenses. I don't have an explanation for it and can't really justify but regardless it is a fact for me. I can understand how this defies reasoning and logic and to those who don't feel this way it makes no sense, so they attack.
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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    Hey Dude (sorry, I couldn't resist!),

    If there is one thing I've learned over the years it's this...use the camera gear that you enjoy and which suits you, regardless of what anyone else thinks about it.

    If you are lucky, you'll find the ONE true camera system which is perfect for you. That could be a Leica, a Nikon or whatever.

    If you are unlucky, you'll discover that you like many, many different types of cameras. Then you will be happy no matter what you own, but you will eventually accumulate a closest full of gear that you never have enough time to use.

    I'm one of the unlucky ones.....but after many years of wishing and hoping, I finally own a couple of Leica R cameras, so I'm also very, very happy!

    Gary

    PS. The M Leica? Heck, I have a hard enough time focusing my Mamiya 7II, no way could I focus a Leica M. Bummer!

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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    Like other said the "hate" comes from one of two places and it's the extremism that drives it all. There are those in the camp that everything that's not a Leica is crap and those that think that everyone who uses a Leica is a rich and snobbish collector. The truth is that most Leica users are pretty reasonable and friendly people who like the "rangefinder" way.

    I agree that EVF will more than likely make rangefinders irrelevant but there will always be purist who prefer the tried and true. It's almost the same argument that people use against luxury car drivers and the manual transmission v. automated clutch argument. No matter how much faster or more perfect the shifts are I think some people just don't like control being taken away from them.

    I also mirror Jonoslack experience except I probably took fewer shots with the M9 than the A77 but at a quick glance in Aperture I have a higher percentage of keepers with the M9 than the A77 because I slowed down.
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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post

    I agree that EVF will more than likely make rangefinders irrelevant....
    Maybe some day, though I doubt it. The OVF allowed me to see the "Seagull Flying into he frame". With an EVF I most likely would have missed the moment.

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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    If I comment, it'd be mostly redundant; however, I won't let that stop me.

    I've been shooting with my Nex 7, a lot lately, using Sony E and A and Leica M and R glass. I'm just having fun. Everybody that i know who has a Leica, probably has 3-4 other cameras of different brands (one, probably, the camera du jour...moi). Does anybody have only Leicas and won't use any other camera? Half the people on this forum are posting in several camera brand threads.

    On my recent trip to India, I took the Nex 7 and my M9. I shot a lot more with the Nex 7 (most used lens was the 18-200mm), but, I believe more of the photos that I like were with the M9. What does that personally tell me? A lot, but not relevant here.

    I lust after new lenses and cameras, maybe more then most. Not because, I'm deluded into thinking they'll make me a better photographer, but because they provide a new experience, something to learn, subjects for conversations with fellow sufferers, and a tool to create with.

    That rambled off track. If they don't like your photo, ask why? If they don't like your camera, tell them to bugger off, and, then ignore them.

    Cheers, Matt

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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    A Leica will not make you a better photographer. But if it suits you it can be the camera that you feel most at home with, so you forget about the camera and get on with photography, and that will make you a better photographer.

    I am on a downward spiral of wanting a simpler and simpler camera, multiple menu's annoy me, I have no patience with megapixels or AF modes. But the lens is important, and with a Leica you get a vast choice to enjoy, everything from a characterful Russian bargain bin special to a Summilux that costs the same as a car. Each has the same level of importance if it renders the final image how you want it. So far from being elitist I think, from what I read, using a Leica makes people very non judgemental photographer's, less concerned with gadgets and the box that holds the film or the sensor, and more interested in the final image. So to the OP, just ignore them, if it works for you treasure it.

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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    There is another group. Those who are put off by supercilious Leica snobs. The people who respond to any question with "Well, <sigh> there are some who will just never understand." Or "It requires a certain sensitivity to adapt to the process." or the inevitable invocation of HCB and what HE would have thought of your stupid question or..
    HI Matt
    I shall have to try not to be guilty!




    Quote Originally Posted by thedigitalbean View Post
    The M is terrible value. There's so much you don't get for all the $$$ you pay. No AF, slow FPS, tiny buffer, slow card write speed, parallax issues, no live view, etc... I have several other cameras, mirrorless and DSLRs and most of those are "better" than my M9 in many ways. All that said, the camera I get the most satisfaction from using is the M9 and those wonderful M lenses. I don't have an explanation for it and can't really justify but regardless it is a fact for me. I can understand how this defies reasoning and logic and to those who don't feel this way it makes no sense, so they attack.
    HI Aravind
    I think your shortcomings fall into two categories:


    1. things you don't really need which simplify the experience:
    No AF, no live view, parallax etc. these things (IMHO) are part of the beauty.
    2. things that ought to be improved with the next camera:
    slow fps, tiny buffer, slow (dodgy) card writing, noisy shutter

    I seem to have added to your list!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post

    I've just gone through the snaps on our recent trip to China - I had an A77 and a Leica with me all the time, and shot about the same number of shots with each - whereas about 85% of the keepers are with the Leica. (I also had a panasonic G1x, but my wife appropriated that and too some good shots).
    Hi Jono, Why you (not you in particular, it goes for everyone else as well) then go to the trouble of lugging the other gear at all? Of course, this is better than leaving the M9 in the vitrine closet and actually using a cheaper second tier gear.

    BTW, I am still looking forward to your China visit pictures.

    [PS: I did explain myself to Robert in a PM. I absolutely do not approve of hate mail for whatever reason. It is simply deplorable.]
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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    Same experience here, I sometimes look at my ratings in Lightroom, how much "Goog" images from which camera - and my rate is S2>=M9>=others (right now Nex and Nikon D700).
    Some days ago I brought the Nex7 for example, had fun shooting, took 200 images, and there was not one real keeper.
    I often have to use a camera for some time to find out if it works fine for me or not. Sometimes I cant even find an explanation why one works better for me. All I trust are my eyes and sometimes the comments I get from people looking at my images.
    If friends ask me which camera to buy I tell them allthe time: Go to a store , hamdle them, look through the viewfinder. Thats much more important than 2MP more or less, or half stop better ISO behaviour.
    But I am also aware that for others a different camera might work much better.
    One other thing: Even I like the feel and build and quality of Leicas I see it as what it is: its just a camera

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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    HI Vivek
    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Hi Jono, Why you (not you in particular, it goes for everyone else as well) then go to the trouble of lugging the other gear at all?
    I think Matt put the situation very well:

    Quote Originally Posted by m_driscoll View Post

    I lust after new lenses and cameras, maybe more then most. Not because, I'm deluded into thinking they'll make me a better photographer, but because they provide a new experience, something to learn, subjects for conversations with fellow sufferers, and a tool to create with.
    I think you said something about people owning M9s but shooting with other cameras more - in this context it's worth mentioning that on this site, the incentive for posting Leica pictures is less urgent, and with a slowish internet connection I find the 'fun with Leica' thread rather onerous.

    In the last month, I seem to have taken 1300 shots with an M, and 600 shots without (FWIW of course) - the number of keepers is obviously a different thing, and not so easy to work out.

    However, in this situation the reason I carried the A77 was so that I could use longer focal length lenses (the 70-300G got used a lot), which the M9 doesn't allow easily.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Of course, this is better than leaving the M9 in the vitrine closet and actually using a cheaper second tier gear.
    I don't see much evidence around here of people doing that - of course, if that were the case then you could construe the purchase of the bodies as a waste of money (although perhaps not the lenses as they seem to keep their value pretty well)


    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    BTW, I am still looking forward to your China visit pictures.
    Hmm yes, well, there might be a bit of a wait - I came back to a lot of work, added to which I'm trying to put a book together, which means that I haven't put anything up on the website yet. I can promise you there will be some in the next few weeks - nobody has ever accused me of being shy posting shots (perhaps it'd be better if I was!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    [PS: I did explain myself to Robert in a PM. I absolutely do not approve of hate mail for whatever reason. It is simply deplorable.]
    I was picking you up on the 'waste of money' - Of course - it never occurred to me for a second that you did approve of hate mail or that you approved of Robert's detractors!

    all the best

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Hi Jono, Why you (not you in particular, it goes for everyone else as well) then go to the trouble of lugging the other gear at all? Of course, this is better than leaving the M9 in the vitrine closet and actually using a cheaper second tier gear.

    BTW, I am still looking forward to your China visit pictures.

    [PS: I did explain myself to Robert in a PM. I absolutely do not approve of hate mail for whatever reason. It is simply deplorable.]
    Hi Vivek,
    some reason for the other gear which comes and goes:
    - toy factor - sometimes something new comes out and one jumps on it; One can allways find reasons to justify yourself you need to buy a certain camera; One needs a Nex because now with the kids one wants to shoot movies here and there, the M9 is limited to 135mm as longest lens, the high ISO of the Nex is better,.... Once one owns it it has the "new toy" factor for some weeks. Once that factor is gone the real test comes: Do I really need/use it. Sometimes the answer is yes, often the answer is no and it goes again.

    -application: If I go on a bycicle tour with the MTB I dont want a 15k equipment in my bag, so I would rather carry a x100 or a Nex or a x1 or m4/3; If I shoot action/sports/long Tele/very high ISO a different camera (Nikon for example) just works better than a Leica.
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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    Hey Robert, you have eyes to see with. They are your eyes, not someone else's. If you like what you see, then why care what others can see or not? It's about what you produce, not what you carry.

    Making a photograph is somehow positioned as difficult and complex. In reality it is simple. School children can do it well. So why the universal need to automate something that's simple? Does everything have to be the same? Leica M cameras tend to be simple and un-complex. A more direct photographic experience.

    Leica stuff is expensive. If they were not in demand, they would not be expensive ... or, they would still be expensive, and no one would buy them, then there would be no more Leica anything. That price/value argument has been around forever, and will continue into the 2020s ... (unless the Mayans were right )

    Leica products may not be relevant to some, but that is them, not everyone. IMHO, the M and S2 are more relevant to my work, and my eye, and my art, than anything else out there. There-in lies MY price/value equation ... "Everything else, is everything less", (my favorite generic tag line )

    I get approached while working all the time, some big DSLR toting fellow steps up, whips down his virtual zipper and wants to compare cameras. I have taken to telling them what a fantastic machine they have, and how I wished I could afford one, and so on, then get back to work.

    Marc
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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    Hi Vivek,
    some reason for the other gear which comes and goes:
    - toy factor - sometimes something new comes out and one jumps on it; One can allways find reasons to justify yourself you need to buy a certain camera; One needs a Nex because now with the kids one wants to shoot movies here and there, the M9 is limited to 135mm as longest lens, the high ISO of the Nex is better,.... Once one owns it it has the "new toy" factor for some weeks. Once that factor is gone the real test comes: Do I really need/use it. Sometimes the answer is yes, often the answer is no and it goes again.

    -application: If I go on a bycicle tour with the MTB I dont want a 15k equipment in my bag, so I would rather carry a x100 or a Nex or a x1 or m4/3; If I shoot action/sports/long Tele/very high ISO a different camera (Nikon for example) just works better than a Leica.
    The fame and fortune (or rather the price tag) of the brand works against it (at times) being used as a tool that ought to be.

    I have only seen one M9 sold here that really looked brassed. I did congratulate that seller.

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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by m_driscoll View Post
    If I comment, it'd be mostly redundant; however, I won't let that stop me.

    I've been shooting with my Nex 7, a lot lately, using Sony E and A and Leica M and R glass. I'm just having fun. Everybody that i know who has a Leica, probably has 3-4 other cameras of different brands (one, probably, the camera du jour...moi). Does anybody have only Leicas and won't use any other camera? Half the people on this forum are posting in several camera brand threads.

    On my recent trip to India, I took the Nex 7 and my M9. I shot a lot more with the Nex 7 (most used lens was the 18-200mm), but, I believe more of the photos that I like were with the M9. What does that personally tell me? A lot, but not relevant here.

    I lust after new lenses and cameras, maybe more then most. Not because, I'm deluded into thinking they'll make me a better photographer, but because they provide a new experience, something to learn, subjects for conversations with fellow sufferers, and a tool to create with.

    That rambled off track. If they don't like your photo, ask why? If they don't like your camera, tell them to bugger off, and, then ignore them.

    Cheers, Matt

    Zenfolio | Matt Driscoll
    Quote Originally Posted by thedigitalbean View Post
    The M is terrible value. There's so much you don't get for all the $$$ you pay. No AF, slow FPS, tiny buffer, slow card write speed, parallax issues, no live view, etc... I have several other cameras, mirrorless and DSLRs and most of those are "better" than my M9 in many ways. All that said, the camera I get the most satisfaction from using is the M9 and those wonderful M lenses. I don't have an explanation for it and can't really justify but regardless it is a fact for me. I can understand how this defies reasoning and logic and to those who don't feel this way it makes no sense, so they attack.
    Both of these posts illustrate a concept of mine - that for some photographers simpler cameras with prime lenses work better, and that more complex cameras with varifocals/zooms inject too much choice into the process. I know that's how it works for me.
    ---
    Ken

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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    I shall have to try not to be guilty!
    Jono, on the contrary. Your enthusiasm for the M9 as a photographic tool was largely responsible for my conversion. How I've resisted the Noctilux, I'll never understand. Of course, if enthusiasm were the whole story I'd have an IQ160 (Guy), an S2 (Marc), and a half dozen D800s (everyone).

    --Matt

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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    I get approached while working all the time, some big DSLR toting fellow steps up, whips down his virtual zipper and wants to compare cameras. I have taken to telling them what a fantastic machine they have, and how I wished I could afford one, and so on, then get back to work.
    Marc


    Yes indeed - there's nothing like a long lens to make you seem potent. . . . . but I'm afraid that 90mm elmarit M doesn't really quite do the business!


    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    The fame and fortune (or rather the price tag) of the brand works against it (at times) being used as a tool that ought to be.
    Oh, one can be reasonably careful and still use it as a tool
    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I have only seen one M9 sold here that really looked brassed. I did congratulate that seller.
    I don't really think there's anything to be congratulated about in brassing cameras, but I suppose it's inevitable in the end: my 3 year old is certainly brassy . . . Leica described it as
    Top Plate Damaged
    Extreme signs of Use.


    I didn't really think it was THAT bad, but it's certainly got brassy corners.
    Last edited by jonoslack; 17th April 2012 at 08:41.

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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    Oh I get even more attention with the arca rm3di in a too public spot.
    Folks are almost always asking about the camera. I just wish they would stay away from the front of the lens
    Once when shooting with an M8 in Munich a small group approached and I overheard one lad explaining to the rest that nobody uses film anymore other than a few dedicated idiots
    -bob

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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Oh I get even more attention with the arca rm3di in a too public spot.
    Folks are almost always asking about the camera. I just wish they would stay away from the front of the lens
    Once when shooting with an M8 in Munich a small group approached and I overheard one lad explaining to the rest that nobody uses film anymore other than a few dedicated idiots
    -bob
    LOL!

    Yeah, I was once shooting in NYC with a factory fresh M6 Titanium, and a guy came up and sincerely said he was glad to see the old cameras still being put to use ...

    The only time an interruption was welcome was when shooting with an XPan, and an absolute babe on roller blades followed me to ask if that was the new XPan ... my wife came out of the shop she was in, and frostily told her it was

    -Marc
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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    Haters gonna hate. Screw 'em and keep shooting.
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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    . . . . . just thank the folks for taking the time and sharing their opinions with you and then move on. It is what you think and how you act that matters.

    There are a lot of folks out there who will take time from you when you can just be enjoying life instead of reacting to something you can just let pass by.

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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by seakayaker View Post
    . . . . . just thank the folks for taking the time and sharing their opinions with you and then move on.
    You are so right - I'm not exactly in favour of the 'other cheek' principle, but answering rudeness with calm politeness is unquestionably better - better for your blood pressure as well!

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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    Quote Originally Posted by TRSmith View Post
    To he#l with them.
    I completely agree with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    Post that your pics were taken with a point and shoot.
    I agree with this too.

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
    I've never had camera envy hate mail. Sounds fun. Makes me want to buy Leica.
    This made me laugh.

    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickCheung View Post
    That was my friend's reaction when he found out how much my M8 was.
    This made me laugh harder, awesome.

    Quote Originally Posted by JSRockit View Post
    People can be and will be idiots and the internet makes it annonymous.
    This is very true.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6x7 View Post
    1. those who don't own a Leica
    This is what I've found, I've been attacked too for owning a Leica and it's always from people who have never even touched a Leica, much less used one. Absolutely clueless, one of them was totally trashing rangefinder parallax like it was the end of the world, as if every photo that comes out of a Leica looks like it was taken from 50 feet to the right of wherever you're standing, making every photo unuseable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Blow them away with your images, no matter what you shoot.
    I agree with this.

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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    on a positive note after I got my M8 last year I went into a camera store in the mall to look for a bag. Luckily the people working there actually knew photography so they were quite enthralled by the M8 ,then their boss came out

    " Holy ****! is that A Leica? Ive read about them but have never seen one!" so I said , here take some shots , he took 2 or 3 and then " well I dont want to waste all of your film"
    me " Oh , its a digital M camera take a few more I dont mind" after 2-3 minutes of oohing and awe-ing

    him " this camera is F&*^king Fantastic!!" I actually laughed out loud as did all the employees.

    Now everytime I pop in he always comes out to chat along with the assistant manager too.


    So My Leica journey hasnt been all doom andgloom, just the internet *expert* part of it

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    Re: Why the leica Hate?

    Hehe... the internet experts. Just a few hours before you started this thread, I wrote a small blog entry about similar topic, which was sparked by an old post by Mike Johnston in 2006.

    Pardon for the shameless plug: Taking and giving criticism for photo shared online... - LeicaLux
    David Young
    My journey into Leica: LeicaLux.com
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