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Thread: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    Well, the increased base ISO makes sense because the sensor captures about one stop extra due to the lack of a bayer filter.

    ISO-by-ISO, the MM is much cleaner - even up to 10k. Though one should also point out that the lack of COLOR noise helps - it's purely luminance noise.

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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    base ISO 320.....does that mean I need another ND filter now?
    Nope. That why Leica came up with a new summicron lens and charge you another $7K for one.

    Nice review Jono.

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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    Two bodies
    Thats like 2 wives. Cant afford either
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    It's always amazing to me that someone would lament the inability to shoot in color when they mainly want to work in B&W most of the time. Why? Anyone who can afford a $7000 Leica M or the new monochrome only version for $8000 can easily add any outstanding digital color camera from $400-$1000 (the new Olympus 4/3 OM-5 comes to mind, just rated at 80% by dpreview compared to 82% for the new Nikon D800). Is there any Leica M photographer out there that does not have a backup, cheaper digital camera already? Why not separate the two (like film) and take color with one and B&W with the other?
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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    i am a bit stunned and amazed at how few people get what a big deal this camera is for b/w shooters, especially those who often shoot in very low light situations.

    this is an total dream-come-true and i could give a fig about lacking the choice to convert to colour. when i shoot, i shoot for black and white period. i look at the light, at the composition, etc., just as if i was shooting b/w film... i don't want colour, ever, to distract me. i even shoot b/w jpegs, despite the waste of space and processing time, so if i chimp or show an image, there's b/w on the screen.

    the shadow detail that you can pull from the camera is absolutely stunning and unlike anything i can get from the M9 at 2500, even shooting with an f/1 lens, unless there's really an awful lot of light (which is often not the case).

    i love love love Jono's images because they show what is possible from the camera. they're not over-processed or stylised and really show the capabilities of the sensor. it makes my head swim! with files that flexible at 6400, what can't i do?

    this is a camera i can't afford to get but, also, a camera i can't afford not to.

    i am over the moon.

    thank you, Jono. and, whilst i probably should buy you a lobster dinner for this, i'm afraid Micky D's will be the only affordable restaurant for me in the foreseeable future
    my flickr
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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    Quote Originally Posted by larryk View Post
    It's always amazing to me that someone would lament the inability to shoot in color when they mainly want to work in B&W most of the time. Why? Anyone who can afford a $7000 Leica M or the new monochrome only version for $8000 can easily add any outstanding digital color camera from $400-$1000 (the new Olympus 4/3 OM-5 comes to mind, just rated at 80% by dpreview compared to 82% for the new Nikon D800). Is there any Leica M photographer out there that does not have a backup, cheaper digital camera already? Why not separate the two (like film) and take color with one and B&W with the other?
    small point...you can't compare 80 for OMD vs 82 for D800. The numbers are independent since the cameras live in different categories and ratings are relative to the category. Don't get me wrong the OMD is very good but it isn't 2 points different.
    terry
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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    Jono, thank you for posting. I love the images. Are you keeping Henri?

    Marc, you in?

    Ashwin, July? Seriously?

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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    Quote Originally Posted by charlesphoto View Post
    Honestly, so far I'm not impressed by the images I've seen from this camera (and I'm not singling you out Jono). Seems to be a lot of blown highlights and washed out areas, and nothing that couldn't have been done just converting an M9 file (and maybe better).

    Could just be a matter of one having to be really careful with exposure (esp highlights) and working it hard in post (just as one had to do in a darkroom). That said the 6400 shots are pretty amazing, but not enough for me to shell out $8K. Will be interested to try one for an afternoon sometime - Ashwin? Problem is, I find the colors of the M9 to be so fantastic I rarely want to shoot (convert) to b&w anymore!
    Given that SilverEfex 2 can be used post camera processing for the M9, I agree.

    To me the camera feature that is going to make it sell is the ability to go to ISO 10,000. That you can get no other way and I think it is very important. Jono's images shot at ISO 6400 proves this to be real. JMHO

    Woody
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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    i am a bit stunned and amazed at how few people get what a big deal this camera is for b/w shooters, especially those who often shoot in very low light situations.

    this is an total dream-come-true and i could give a fig about lacking the choice to convert to colour. when i shoot, i shoot for black and white period. i look at the light, at the composition, etc., just as if i was shooting b/w film... i don't want colour, ever, to distract me. i even shoot b/w jpegs, despite the waste of space and processing time, so if i chimp or show an image, there's b/w on the screen.

    the shadow detail that you can pull from the camera is absolutely stunning and unlike anything i can get from the M9 at 2500, even shooting with an f/1 lens, unless there's really an awful lot of light (which is often not the case).

    i love love love Jono's images because they show what is possible from the camera. they're not over-processed or stylised and really show the capabilities of the sensor. it makes my head swim! with files that flexible at 6400, what can't i do?

    this is a camera i can't afford to get but, also, a camera i can't afford not to.

    i am over the moon.

    thank you, Jono. and, whilst i probably should buy you a lobster dinner for this, i'm afraid Micky D's will be the only affordable restaurant for me in the foreseeable future
    Cam - I had you figured for a good candidate for this camera. Micky D's isn't so bad....they have salads now.

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    Senior Member Peter Klein's Avatar
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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    The outstanding things about the M Monochrom appear to be:
    - A bit better resolution than M8/M9.
    - Vastly improved high ISO
    - Vastly improved shadow detail even at high ISO
    - Noise at high ISOs is very film grain-like.
    - Tonality in the lower tones looks better than M8/M9.
    - Less need to shoot wide-open, can use "sweeter" f-stops in moderately low light.

    Counterbalanced by the cons:
    - No highlight headroom. Expose carefully.
    - No color (will be an advantage for some, disadvantage to others).
    - No PP color filtering, must use traditional filters at exposure.
    - May need an ND filter for bright sunshine.
    - Wide-open bokeh nuts will need to stop down a little, which will kill them :-)
    - The price is bleeping ridiculous, but this is Leica, so we knew that.

    I love B&W. The pictures from this camera are beautiful. This camera interests me far more than the possibility of upgrading my M8 to an M9. If I had 8 kilobucks of disposable income, I'd buy one in a minute. Since I don't, I will continue to shoot my M8 and convert to B&W in Capture One.

    Jono, the picture of the elderly Chinese man relating to his comorants is a once-in-a-lifetime, beautiful, decisive-moment shot. Truly on a par with the "real" Henri. You can be *very* proud.

    --Peter

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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I know this sounds so unLeica but rather just have the M9 and convert when I want. What happens when you really want color. I know I know you can start throwing the rocks at me. I'll go back to not posting now. Lol
    I totally agree. The emperor has no clothes as far as I am concerned.

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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    I don't understand why people think the price of the M9M should be lower than the M9P. Are there fewer parts? Less firmware? Nope.
    Brad Husick

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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Klein View Post

    Counterbalanced by the cons:
    - No highlight headroom. Expose carefully.
    - No color (will be an advantage for some, disadvantage to others).
    - No PP color filtering, must use traditional filters at exposure.
    - May need an ND filter for bright sunshine.
    - Wide-open bokeh nuts will need to stop down a little, which will kill them :-)
    - The price is bleeping ridiculous, but this is Leica, so we knew that.


    --Peter
    Hi Peter,

    I would think there IS PP color filtering as the output isn't true monochromatic at all. This is where the Nik pluggin comes into play.

    FWIW, if someone wants a monochrome camera for less, they could look up maxmax site (they offer custom conversions of two stock Canon DSLRs- only Canon DSLRs). That conversion and file outputs are exactly like the one the M9M produces ie., RGB.

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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    Quote Originally Posted by bradhusick View Post
    I don't understand why people think the price of the M9M should be lower than the M9P. Are there fewer parts? Less firmware? Nope.
    Like I said earlier, it is very clever of Leica to produce a very affordable monochrome camera! If it had been one with a true monochrome output, it would have been ~3X the price of the M9P! Quite frankly I am stunned that they kept the price at M9P level!
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    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    Well, I'm really glad you got this opportunity Jono - there are some stunning images in those sets, so Leica made an excellent choice. Some very jealous folks over on that stuffy forum

    All the best

    Brian

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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    Jono,

    Thank you for the blog and pictures - well done. I can see the point of the M9M for people who take a lot of B&W and in comparison to the M9. However how is it going to compare with converted images from the M10. Now with a bit of guesswork, the M10 will have a CMOS sensor with around 28MP and ISO up to 12,000ish + boost. If those figures are anywhere near correct, I feel a converted B&W from the M10 will be close to indistinguishable from an M9M even at high ISO's. The M10 will have the obvious benefit of taking colour but for B&W it has the not inconsiderable benefit of being able to apply filters retrospectively at the conversion stage, in adjustments or even better in lab colour space. For me it's wait for the M10.

    Wilson
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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    Vivek:

    I thought the M9M dispensed with the Bayer filter, thus each pixel is producing a composite luminance value without regard to color.

    can you explain?

    tnx

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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    Hi John,

    Yes, no Bayer dyes but it would appear that the plain pixels are treated (are assigned) the same pattern so that it would out put like the M9 file.

    See B&W Conversion

    Has a bit more detail as what might go in to such processes.
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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    Jono

    What effect will the electronic monochrome filters in LR4 have on the images produced by the M Monochrome? There's a full set in that software from yellow to deep red, plus infrared.
    John L Dobson
    Editor, Ffestiniog Railway Magazine

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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    Very interesting stuff and great photos Jono!

    Now if Nikon would just make a monochrome version of the D800.....I'd buy one.

    Gary

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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    Hi there everyone
    I'm just back from Berlin, rather knackered after a 4.30am morning and too much fun with too many people!
    Thank you everyone for the kind words (and the less kind as well). from my point of view writing the words is one thing, posting the pictures always leads to a little heartache.
    I can't answer everyone personally tonight, much as I'd like to, but when I say Thank you I mean you!

    There have been some perfectly reasonable requests to do some comparisons between M9 and MM files. Of course, I have done this exercise -you will be astonished to hear that I actually got my tripod out and took pictures at all the available ISO values for each camera in good conditions and in bad. The conclusion I came to was:
    1 The MM has better dynamic range
    2 The MM has much better high ISO (10000 is quite usable, and 6400 will do A1 prints)
    3 The mid tones are rather a revelation on the MM
    4 There is a resolution advantage - but with the subjects I tried it wasn't huge
    5 You Better Not Overexpose - but this isn't a problem in itself, the roll off burned out areas is perfectly gentle and the shadow detail goes on forever

    .......... But I'm not going to publish my results! Sean Reid and Michael Reichmann are much better at this stuff than I am: they make their living from it! Added to which I haven't the time or inclination to get into the inevitable discussions about methodology and results!

    I'll try and answer more specific questions tomorrow.

    all the best Jono

    p.s. Cam - the Lobster diner for you and Kevin is definitely on me after your help and encouragement!

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Like I said earlier, it is very clever of Leica to produce a very affordable monochrome camera! If it had been one with a true monochrome output, it would have been ~3X the price of the M9P! Quite frankly I am stunned that they kept the price at M9P level!
    Isnt a B&W sensor the same base like a color sensor but without color filters and without interpolation?
    I assume the production cost is about the same, but since there are lower production numbers + some r&d cost they made the price a little higher than the M9p.

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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    Isnt a B&W sensor the same base like a color sensor but without color filters and without interpolation?
    Yes to the first part of that question. Frankly, I can only speculate as to the second part and I do think (speculation) there is some interpolation going on.

    Tom, Come on! The price is is at the same level as the M9P!

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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I know this sounds so unLeica but rather just have the M9 and convert when I want. What happens when you really want color. I know I know you can start throwing the rocks at me. I'll go back to not posting now. Lol
    You use a color wheel with RGB filters and make three exposures. Kodak sold them with the DCS200m and DCS400 series monochrome cameras. The filter wheel interfaced with the camera for the three exposures. I'm sure we can rig something up with the data port of the M9-M. I could use the color wheel with my Polaroid Palette film recorder with it, also has a serial interface with the computer.

    Or better yet, print out the picture and hand-tint it. Now that would have a real vintage look to it.

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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    Me thinks the biggest different between the M9 and the MM will be in the mindset of the photographer. The same way as there's a big difference between going on a diet in New York City and being stranded on a desert island with no food. One thinks differently, and often more creatively, when there are no options.
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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Me thinks the biggest different between the M9 and the MM will be in the mindset of the photographer. The same way as there's a big difference between going on a diet in New York City and being stranded on a desert island with no food. One thinks differently, and often more creatively, when there are no options.
    Absolutely - hooray hooray - you hit the nail on the head. It's the biggest difference . . it isn't, however, the only difference!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    I downloaded every image posted on the Leica website and worked them through Silver Efex 2. Honestly I can't say I'm impressed in anyway.
    Nothing shoots and feels like a Leica M but this for me is really disappointing.

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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    i wonder how the M9M would render with vintage lenses ( saying thats my bag :P)

    1930s summar on a 18 MP mono sensor!

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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    Quote Originally Posted by dude163 View Post
    i wonder how the M9M would render with vintage lenses ( saying thats my bag :P)

    1930s summar on a 18 MP mono sensor!
    alas, i don't have lenses quite that vintage... but i do have some golden oldies (like the v.1, 8 element 35 Cron) that i will shoot on an MM first chance i get!

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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    Looking forward to it, Ill never get a M9M , but Im looking forward to the shots from those that do!

    cheers

    I dont have a summar either , but I do like the rendering of the vintage gear

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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    We need a new term here. I suppose "color commentator" is out of place for this camera.
    -bob
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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    None of those 'off color' remarks, Bob.

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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    Quote Originally Posted by dude163 View Post
    i wonder how the M9M would render with vintage lenses ( saying thats my bag :P)

    1930s summar on a 18 MP mono sensor!
    This idea in general intregues me too. In some sense using older more classical rangefinder lenses on the M9M, might help emulate the 35mm film look, along with all the other parameters that contribute...both exposure and post processing. The reason I say 35mm "film look", is most 35mm images taken with film and printed to say the classic 8x10" print, have a degree of "roundness" to them....sort of like the 75mm Summilux,, or 50mm Lux pre-asph. In contrast (no pun intended), smaller 8.5x11" prints derived from a M9 file along with say a modern day 50mm Lux asph or 35mm Lux asph thats been converted to B&W... will often look too bitingly sharp and too clean. That's why I think the right vintage lens on the M9M and possibly shooting at the higher ISO's to emulate the proper film grain structure, may result in something thats not as easily emulated with the regular M9 with modern lens & Silverfast B&W conversion. Just some random thoughts I had.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    I think the only group of people who will truly be able to experience what this camera is capable of at its peak ability will be those who get to view very large format high grade prints that are presented well.
    IMO even at pixel level peeking you will see likely a better image than say a M9 but it will be small sample example only. The impact won't be there. Any LCD presentation of an image from either camera will wow.

    To truly experience its output someone will have to either attend an exhibition from the M Mono or buy a print from a owner, or of course buy their own camera and print.
    This is just my expectation, am I wrong?

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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    Dave (D&A),

    i shoot with both the 75 Summilux and the 50 Lux pre-asph. i like the look of the older lenses and am mad about all things Mandler. even my Noctilux is the old E58 which i swear is different from the E60 (and most definitely the f/.95).

    i will honestly be thrilled beyond belief to be able to boost the ISO so i can get faster shutter speeds! i plan to push this camera to the limits -- with an array of mostly older lenses.

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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Me thinks the biggest different between the M9 and the MM will be in the mindset of the photographer. The same way as there's a big difference between going on a diet in New York City and being stranded on a desert island with no food. One thinks differently, and often more creatively, when there are no options.
    i both agree and disagree.

    you are right about mindset for those that don't have the discipline to shoot exclusively for b/w (which i do). this camera will force it, making people looking at light and composition, etc., rather than fall back on beautiful colours.

    however, this camera will do gorgeous high ISO, to an extent that is impossible to even try with any digital rangefinder to date. it even surpasses film capabilities, but that is only my opinion as i've never tried to push it that far.

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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    Quote Originally Posted by OlliL View Post
    Jono bashing on RFF

    RFF-Thread
    HI There
    Many thanks for the heads up on this - it's nice to know when one is being slagged off!
    I gave myself a 24 hour cooling off period, and then posted a response - I hope it doesn't sound either defensive or sulky Never complain . . . and never explain is how it goes, but sometimes its tough to keep one's mouth shut (click on the iink if you want to find out whether I'm grumpy or crotchety!!
    all the best

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI There
    Many thanks for the heads up on this - it's nice to know when one is being slagged off!
    I gave myself a 24 hour cooling off period, and then posted a response - I hope it doesn't sound either defensive or sulky Never complain . . . and never explain is how it goes, but sometimes its tough to keep one's mouth shut (click on the iink if you want to find out whether I'm grumpy or crotchety!!
    all the best
    Seems an even handed response Jono.

    I whole heartedly agree that any new medium of expression in the digital arena requires time and patience ... especially this level of dramatic departure.

    I had lots of trepidation moving from B&W film to B&W conversions with the M8 ... then even more fussing and groaning moving from the M8 to the M9 conversions. Why would this camera be any different?

    Thanks for your contributions!

    -Marc
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  39. #89
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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    I don't know if some of the folks on RFF were born with no manners or if it is something they have cultivated. Other than an occasional source of info, it is a forum I tend to avoid. Flaming people that you don't know while hiding behind a pseudonym, is a sign of a coward. I have always used my real name on forums.

    Wilson
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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI There
    Many thanks for the heads up on this - it's nice to know when one is being slagged off!
    I gave myself a 24 hour cooling off period, and then posted a response - I hope it doesn't sound either defensive or sulky Never complain . . . and never explain is how it goes, but sometimes its tough to keep one's mouth shut (click on the iink if you want to find out whether I'm grumpy or crotchety!!
    all the best
    You gave a very well restraint explanation and brought some clarity in the situations at hand, Jono! Well done!

    Michiel
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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    Leica M-M
    For those who might not frequent the LL website, I just posted this for some thoughts.
    I know this is a dodgy forum to post this but then the Volare too at one stage although a DB was considered a large sensor.
    For me the Volare was always the benchmark for Digital IQ the 6mb per channel produced such clean/detailed images that were like plasticine you could do whatever you liked with the image and it could take it.
    The announcement earlier this week of the Leica M-M gave some thoughts about the possibilities for the pros who brave to order one.
    The camera with some kind of concocted fiter wheel and 18mb per channel would be a stunner along with spectacular lenses, this in a still life studio environment may just be the thing photographers will embrace.
    Consider that the Volare in it's day came onto the market pretty close to 30K US with only the back and it's essentials for that tag.
    Love to hear your thoughts on this...

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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    BrianS I think we think alike! I saw your post after I had posted the one above this.

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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I know this sounds so unLeica but rather just have the M9 and convert when I want. What happens when you really want color. I know I know you can start throwing the rocks at me. I'll go back to not posting now. Lol
    No rocks Guy. Smurf balls of twisted Leica logic ...

    To my mind, this camera is a back to the future "Night Stalker" without having to use a $11,000 Noctilux to do it.

    The ISO 6400 looks quite good, and a carefully exposed available 10,000 worked in Nik Silver Efex promises even more extention of available light work.

    I don't think about landscapes and pretty pictures and a Leica M in the same thought bubble. It is a walk the shadowed streets of NYC or London ... Paris nights and gritty Detroit ... searching for insights to the human condition ... so Henri is an apt code name IMO. Those objectives aren't old school, they are universal and timeless ... as is B&W.

    Technically, low light and night work usually requires less color filtration ... and frankly, I rarely use less than ISO 320 with my current M9, in fact its almost always set to ISO 640 ... so a base 320 isn't an issue for me.

    That we can retain the image qualities of a CCD and get there, is a remarkable offering for dedicated B&W shooters. When I shot with Leica M film cameras, in 30 years I do not recall ever running a roll of color through them, except when forced to for some disgusting reason. I think my Leica MP once puked when I put a roll of color film in it, and in a slight German accent told me to "kiss its bottom plate"

    -Marc
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  44. #94
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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    Excellent post, Marc!
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2
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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    No rocks Guy. Smurf balls of twisted Leica logic ...

    To my mind, this camera is a back to the future "Night Stalker" without having to use a $11,000 Noctilux to do it.

    The ISO 6400 looks quite good, and a carefully exposed available 10,000 worked in Nik Silver Efex promises even more extention of available light work.

    I don't think about landscapes and pretty pictures and a Leica M in the same thought bubble. It is a walk the shadowed streets of NYC or London ... Paris nights and gritty Detroit ... searching for insights to the human condition ... so Henri is an apt code name IMO. Those objectives aren't old school, they are universal and timeless ... as is B&W.

    Technically, low light and night work usually requires less color filtration ... and frankly, I rarely use less than ISO 320 with my current M9, in fact its almost always set to ISO 640 ... so a base 320 isn't an issue for me.

    That we can retain the image qualities of a CCD and get there, is a remarkable offering for dedicated B&W shooters. When I shot with Leica M film cameras, in 30 years I do not recall ever running a roll of color through them, except when forced to for some disgusting reason. I think my Leica MP once puked when I put a roll of color film in it, and in a slight German accent told me to "kiss its bottom plate"

    -Marc

    LOL so that's it take a really expensive Leica into those gritty dirt night stalker beats. Why do I think of hookers and body art here. Oh wait I know why maybe cause of the red lights on the street we get a better black and white filter response . Okay this technically make sense now. I get it, carry on buy without caution but please carry you night stick monopod.

    LOL you know I have to give you guys some **** here. Oh that Leica feeling. I miss it at times not sure it misses me though. Seriously I would still love to have a M9 and who knows it just may happen someday.

    Have fun folks you know where to find me and send it right back at me.

    Jono nice stuff bud as always. BTW don't eat anyone's grumpy attitude, your service to the industry is well appreciated. Remember 99 percent of the time it's just jealousy. I wear the t shirt. Part of being involved sorry to say.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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  46. #96
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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    Jono

    Well spoken ! Always easier to be the “armchair traveler” and not put yourself out there . Bravo for your restraint and well crafted response.

    Roger

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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    No rocks Guy. Smurf balls of twisted Leica logic ...

    To my mind, this camera is a back to the future "Night Stalker" without having to use a $11,000 Noctilux to do it.

    The ISO 6400 looks quite good, and a carefully exposed available 10,000 worked in Nik Silver Efex promises even more extention of available light work.

    I don't think about landscapes and pretty pictures and a Leica M in the same thought bubble. It is a walk the shadowed streets of NYC or London ... Paris nights and gritty Detroit ... searching for insights to the human condition ... so Henri is an apt code name IMO. Those objectives aren't old school, they are universal and timeless ... as is B&W.

    Technically, low light and night work usually requires less color filtration ... and frankly, I rarely use less than ISO 320 with my current M9, in fact its almost always set to ISO 640 ... so a base 320 isn't an issue for me.

    That we can retain the image qualities of a CCD and get there, is a remarkable offering for dedicated B&W shooters. When I shot with Leica M film cameras, in 30 years I do not recall ever running a roll of color through them, except when forced to for some disgusting reason. I think my Leica MP once puked when I put a roll of color film in it, and in a slight German accent told me to "kiss its bottom plate"

    -Marc
    Most amusing, Marc.

    I haven't put any color film through my M4-2 either. I haven't shot any color film at all since 2002. Film is for B&W ...

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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    Quote Originally Posted by ced View Post
    Leica M-M
    For those who might not frequent the LL website, I just posted this for some thoughts.
    I know this is a dodgy forum to post this but then the Volare too at one stage although a DB was considered a large sensor.
    For me the Volare was always the benchmark for Digital IQ the 6mb per channel produced such clean/detailed images that were like plasticine you could do whatever you liked with the image and it could take it.
    The announcement earlier this week of the Leica M-M gave some thoughts about the possibilities for the pros who brave to order one.
    The camera with some kind of concocted fiter wheel and 18mb per channel would be a stunner along with spectacular lenses, this in a still life studio environment may just be the thing photographers will embrace.
    Consider that the Volare in it's day came onto the market pretty close to 30K US with only the back and it's essentials for that tag.
    Love to hear your thoughts on this...
    Interesting point. However, I am so impressed by multishot cameras, which have many of the same operational requirements as the filter wheels with fewer technical problems. Wouldn't it be fascinating to see a Leica MS? Yes, a tripod-living battery sucker, but there would always be single shot.

  49. #99
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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    I am so inspired that I just ordered a film back for my Arca.
    120 B&W here I come.
    But really, Marc speaks my mind. Leica before the M8 was all about tri-X and fixer. Images came to mind in B&W. Color was a distraction.
    -bob

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    Re: M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI There
    Many thanks for the heads up on this - it's nice to know when one is being slagged off!
    I gave myself a 24 hour cooling off period, and then posted a response - I hope it doesn't sound either defensive or sulky Never complain . . . and never explain is how it goes, but sometimes its tough to keep one's mouth shut (click on the iink if you want to find out whether I'm grumpy or crotchety!!
    all the best
    Jono, I think that was a very calm, well thought out and composed response.

    Obviously you have recovered from your trip.

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