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M Monochrom . . . . it's not a review folks
- Thread starter jonoslack
- Start date
This idea in general intregues me too. In some sense using older more classical rangefinder lenses on the M9M, might help emulate the 35mm film look, along with all the other parameters that contribute...both exposure and post processing. The reason I say 35mm "film look", is most 35mm images taken with film and printed to say the classic 8x10" print, have a degree of "roundness" to them....sort of like the 75mm Summilux,, or 50mm Lux pre-asph. In contrast (no pun intended), smaller 8.5x11" prints derived from a M9 file along with say a modern day 50mm Lux asph or 35mm Lux asph thats been converted to B&W... will often look too bitingly sharp and too clean. That's why I think the right vintage lens on the M9M and possibly shooting at the higher ISO's to emulate the proper film grain structure, may result in something thats not as easily emulated with the regular M9 with modern lens & Silverfast B&W conversion. Just some random thoughts I had.i wonder how the M9M would render with vintage lenses ( saying thats my bag)
1930s summar on a 18 MP mono sensor!
Dave (D&A)
Tim
Active member
I think the only group of people who will truly be able to experience what this camera is capable of at its peak ability will be those who get to view very large format high grade prints that are presented well.
IMO even at pixel level peeking you will see likely a better image than say a M9 but it will be small sample example only. The impact won't be there. Any LCD presentation of an image from either camera will wow.
To truly experience its output someone will have to either attend an exhibition from the M Mono or buy a print from a owner, or of course buy their own camera and print.
This is just my expectation, am I wrong?
IMO even at pixel level peeking you will see likely a better image than say a M9 but it will be small sample example only. The impact won't be there. Any LCD presentation of an image from either camera will wow.
To truly experience its output someone will have to either attend an exhibition from the M Mono or buy a print from a owner, or of course buy their own camera and print.
This is just my expectation, am I wrong?
Dave (D&A),
i shoot with both the 75 Summilux and the 50 Lux pre-asph. i like the look of the older lenses and am mad about all things Mandler. even my Noctilux is the old E58 which i swear is different from the E60 (and most definitely the f/.95).
i will honestly be thrilled beyond belief to be able to boost the ISO so i can get faster shutter speeds! i plan to push this camera to the limits -- with an array of mostly older lenses.
i shoot with both the 75 Summilux and the 50 Lux pre-asph. i like the look of the older lenses and am mad about all things Mandler. even my Noctilux is the old E58 which i swear is different from the E60 (and most definitely the f/.95).
i will honestly be thrilled beyond belief to be able to boost the ISO so i can get faster shutter speeds! i plan to push this camera to the limits -- with an array of mostly older lenses.
i both agree and disagree.
you are right about mindset for those that don't have the discipline to shoot exclusively for b/w (which i do). this camera will force it, making people looking at light and composition, etc., rather than fall back on beautiful colours.
however, this camera will do gorgeous high ISO, to an extent that is impossible to even try with any digital rangefinder to date. it even surpasses film capabilities, but that is only my opinion as i've never tried to push it that far.
jonoslack
Active member
HI There
Many thanks for the heads up on this - it's nice to know when one is being slagged off!
I gave myself a 24 hour cooling off period, and then posted a response - I hope it doesn't sound either defensive or sulky Never complain . . . and never explain is how it goes, but sometimes its tough to keep one's mouth shut (click on the iink if you want to find out whether I'm grumpy or crotchety!!
all the best
Seems an even handed response Jono.
I whole heartedly agree that any new medium of expression in the digital arena requires time and patience ... especially this level of dramatic departure.
I had lots of trepidation moving from B&W film to B&W conversions with the M8 ... then even more fussing and groaning moving from the M8 to the M9 conversions. Why would this camera be any different?
Thanks for your contributions!
-Marc
W
wilsonlaidlaw
Guest
I don't know if some of the folks on RFF were born with no manners or if it is something they have cultivated. Other than an occasional source of info, it is a forum I tend to avoid. Flaming people that you don't know while hiding behind a pseudonym, is a sign of a coward. I have always used my real name on forums.
Wilson
Wilson
Michiel Schierbeek
Well-known member
You gave a very well restraint explanation and brought some clarity in the situations at hand, Jono! Well done!
Michiel
Leica M-M
For those who might not frequent the LL website, I just posted this for some thoughts.
I know this is a dodgy forum to post this but then the Volare too at one stage although a DB was considered a large sensor.
For me the Volare was always the benchmark for Digital IQ the 6mb per channel produced such clean/detailed images that were like plasticine you could do whatever you liked with the image and it could take it.
The announcement earlier this week of the Leica M-M gave some thoughts about the possibilities for the pros who brave to order one.
The camera with some kind of concocted fiter wheel and 18mb per channel would be a stunner along with spectacular lenses, this in a still life studio environment may just be the thing photographers will embrace.
Consider that the Volare in it's day came onto the market pretty close to 30K US with only the back and it's essentials for that tag.
Love to hear your thoughts on this...
For those who might not frequent the LL website, I just posted this for some thoughts.
I know this is a dodgy forum to post this but then the Volare too at one stage although a DB was considered a large sensor.
For me the Volare was always the benchmark for Digital IQ the 6mb per channel produced such clean/detailed images that were like plasticine you could do whatever you liked with the image and it could take it.
The announcement earlier this week of the Leica M-M gave some thoughts about the possibilities for the pros who brave to order one.
The camera with some kind of concocted fiter wheel and 18mb per channel would be a stunner along with spectacular lenses, this in a still life studio environment may just be the thing photographers will embrace.
Consider that the Volare in it's day came onto the market pretty close to 30K US with only the back and it's essentials for that tag.
Love to hear your thoughts on this...
No rocks Guy. Smurf balls of twisted Leica logic ...
To my mind, this camera is a back to the future "Night Stalker" without having to use a $11,000 Noctilux to do it.
The ISO 6400 looks quite good, and a carefully exposed available 10,000 worked in Nik Silver Efex promises even more extention of available light work.
I don't think about landscapes and pretty pictures and a Leica M in the same thought bubble. It is a walk the shadowed streets of NYC or London ... Paris nights and gritty Detroit ... searching for insights to the human condition ... so Henri is an apt code name IMO. Those objectives aren't old school, they are universal and timeless ... as is B&W.
Technically, low light and night work usually requires less color filtration ... and frankly, I rarely use less than ISO 320 with my current M9, in fact its almost always set to ISO 640 ... so a base 320 isn't an issue for me.
That we can retain the image qualities of a CCD and get there, is a remarkable offering for dedicated B&W shooters. When I shot with Leica M film cameras, in 30 years I do not recall ever running a roll of color through them, except when forced to for some disgusting reason. I think my Leica MP once puked when I put a roll of color film in it, and in a slight German accent told me to "kiss its bottom plate" :ROTFL:
-Marc
edwardkaraa
New member
Excellent post, Marc!
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
No rocks Guy. Smurf balls of twisted Leica logic ...
To my mind, this camera is a back to the future "Night Stalker" without having to use a $11,000 Noctilux to do it.
The ISO 6400 looks quite good, and a carefully exposed available 10,000 worked in Nik Silver Efex promises even more extention of available light work.
I don't think about landscapes and pretty pictures and a Leica M in the same thought bubble. It is a walk the shadowed streets of NYC or London ... Paris nights and gritty Detroit ... searching for insights to the human condition ... so Henri is an apt code name IMO. Those objectives aren't old school, they are universal and timeless ... as is B&W.
Technically, low light and night work usually requires less color filtration ... and frankly, I rarely use less than ISO 320 with my current M9, in fact its almost always set to ISO 640 ... so a base 320 isn't an issue for me.
That we can retain the image qualities of a CCD and get there, is a remarkable offering for dedicated B&W shooters. When I shot with Leica M film cameras, in 30 years I do not recall ever running a roll of color through them, except when forced to for some disgusting reason. I think my Leica MP once puked when I put a roll of color film in it, and in a slight German accent told me to "kiss its bottom plate" :ROTFL:
-Marc
LOL so that's it take a really expensive Leica into those gritty dirt night stalker beats. Why do I think of hookers and body art here. Oh wait I know why maybe cause of the red lights on the street we get a better black and white filter response . Okay this technically make sense now. I get it, carry on buy without caution but please carry you night stick monopod.
LOL you know I have to give you guys some **** here. Oh that Leica feeling. I miss it at times not sure it misses me though. Seriously I would still love to have a M9 and who knows it just may happen someday.
Have fun folks you know where to find me and send it right back at me.
Jono nice stuff bud as always. BTW don't eat anyone's grumpy attitude, your service to the industry is well appreciated. Remember 99 percent of the time it's just jealousy. I wear the t shirt. Part of being involved sorry to say.
glenerrolrd
Workshop Member
Jono
Well spoken ! Always easier to be the “armchair traveler” and not put yourself out there . Bravo for your restraint and well crafted response.
Roger
Well spoken ! Always easier to be the “armchair traveler” and not put yourself out there . Bravo for your restraint and well crafted response.
Roger
Godfrey
Well-known member
Most amusing, Marc.No rocks Guy. Smurf balls of twisted Leica logic ...
To my mind, this camera is a back to the future "Night Stalker" without having to use a $11,000 Noctilux to do it.
The ISO 6400 looks quite good, and a carefully exposed available 10,000 worked in Nik Silver Efex promises even more extention of available light work.
I don't think about landscapes and pretty pictures and a Leica M in the same thought bubble. It is a walk the shadowed streets of NYC or London ... Paris nights and gritty Detroit ... searching for insights to the human condition ... so Henri is an apt code name IMO. Those objectives aren't old school, they are universal and timeless ... as is B&W.
Technically, low light and night work usually requires less color filtration ... and frankly, I rarely use less than ISO 320 with my current M9, in fact its almost always set to ISO 640 ... so a base 320 isn't an issue for me.
That we can retain the image qualities of a CCD and get there, is a remarkable offering for dedicated B&W shooters. When I shot with Leica M film cameras, in 30 years I do not recall ever running a roll of color through them, except when forced to for some disgusting reason. I think my Leica MP once puked when I put a roll of color film in it, and in a slight German accent told me to "kiss its bottom plate" :ROTFL:
-Marc
I haven't put any color film through my M4-2 either. I haven't shot any color film at all since 2002. Film is for B&W ...
cunim
Well-known member
Interesting point. However, I am so impressed by multishot cameras, which have many of the same operational requirements as the filter wheels with fewer technical problems. Wouldn't it be fascinating to see a Leica MS? Yes, a tripod-living battery sucker, but there would always be single shot.
rayyan
Well-known member
Jono, I think that was a very calm, well thought out and composed response.
Obviously you have recovered from your trip.