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Thread: BJP Interview with Kaufmann

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    BJP Interview with Kaufmann

    Each time Leica has an event ....an interview begins to provide the insights to a good forecast . Now we know the following :

    1. The center piece of Photokina will be the M10 (not the EVIL) .

    2. Portugal looks to be the home of the EVIL (guess) .

    3. M10 will be CMOS ...live view,video (will this kill the character ?)

    4. S3 is looking more probable ....two new cameras and its not the evil. CMOS looks like a good bet with same technology as M10 just larger .

    5. The Kodak spin off will supply the sensors .

    6. Leica can t make enough lenses until new plant opens .

    7. M lens direction to smaller better handling lenses.....21/3.4 ,35/1.4,50/2 ..last three all fit the specification . New 90 coming ? My prior bet was a 28/1.4 ..which would be my most used lenses if true.

    My attempt to read between the lines

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    Re: BJP Interview with Kaufmann

    Is this interview online?

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    Re: BJP Interview with Kaufmann

    "Do we like having a Coca-Cola can in front of a small camera body."

    Summilux/Noctilux being compared to a coke can .. ; )
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    Re: BJP Interview with Kaufmann

    I will be surprised if the new Kodak spin-off that is the source of the monochrome KAF-18500 will supply CMOS detectors. The CMOS plant was sold long before the CCD side was "spun-off". The CMOS effort was for smaller, cheaper sensors- not the high-end market that the CCD's were aimed at.

    http://www.kodak.com/ek/US/en/Image_...d_Products.htm
    Last edited by Brian S; 12th May 2012 at 18:01.

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: BJP Interview with Kaufmann

    The article is out on the BJP ..sorry don t have the link handy . They interviewed Kaufmann and the president . They never make direct quotes but they provide lots of insights . The EVIL ..they call it something else ....is under development but we feel no pressure to release it at Photokina . We already have a compact camera in the M9 . We will release two new cameras at Photokina .

    They said they will continue to work with the Kodak spin off and that the M10 will have live view and video . That means CMOS from the spin off .

    Kaufmann quote ..on not needing the EVIL ..we can t make the lenses anyway .

    Of course I am guessing as is the writer that interviewed the Leica team . Still trying to absorb the idea that an M10 would not be a CCD . I need noiseless ISO1600 but not much else.

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    Re: BJP Interview with Kaufmann

    >I need noiseless ISO1600 but not much else.

    Which does not exist, so you don't need to wait :-)
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    Re: BJP Interview with Kaufmann

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    Each time Leica has an event ....an interview begins to provide the insights to a good forecast . Now we know the following :
    2. Portugal looks to be the home of the EVIL (guess) .
    Hummm... I don't know any rumors, nor anyone inside Leica, but living in Portugal and seeing the interviews and articles about the Factory, the portuguese factory is responsible for building the bodys for every Leica camera. All the 'imaging' part is done in Germany.

    Hope this helps.

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: BJP Interview with Kaufmann

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    >I need noiseless ISO1600 but not much else.

    Which does not exist, so you don't need to wait :-)
    This seems to be an endless debate in semantics ....maybe you could give us better definitions . Given that acceptable noise is in the eye of the beholder ....its quite difficult to understand statements about “acceptable noise” . Yet they are everywhere in reviews of the new MM and the Nikon D800. Claims of shooting everything at 6400 etc.

    In the M9 (CCD) IMO ..the noise above 640 starts to be an issue and increasing ISO causes IQ to degrade quickly (steep drop on the curve). With CMOS sensors such as Nikon has ....this drop off tends to occur much more slowly and at 1600 you still have excellent overall IQ . DXO Mark has there own benchmark that they deem “acceptable” but not many seem to really want a measurable standard.

    The new MM is reported (anecdotal evidence) that noise is below this threshold at 2500 after that it degrades the IQ enough to be noticeable for most applications. Of course with excellent technique in both original capture and post processing ..its possible to use higher ISO and get what most photographers would consider excellent results . Unfortunately in street shooting you have to take what you find and make the best of it.

    I need the same quality I get with an M9 at 640 to be available at 1600 because this is whats needed with fast lenses to get shutter speeds above 1/125 in many street shooting situations . This gain of 1 1/2 EV (effective) seems possible with CMOS but maybe not with CCD sensors .

    I understand that all files have noise ..do you have a better way to express the above in a few words . I thought “noiseless” would be understood that its the noise was below being bothersome in most applications.

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: BJP Interview with Kaufmann

    Quote Originally Posted by caasols View Post
    Hummm... I don't know any rumors, nor anyone inside Leica, but living in Portugal and seeing the interviews and articles about the Factory, the portuguese factory is responsible for building the bodys for every Leica camera. All the 'imaging' part is done in Germany.

    Hope this helps.
    Understood . The M and S body fabrication is done there . Adding another product line maybe tied to the factory expansion in Portugal . The M and the S are the primary products that will be assembled and tested in Wetzlar along with their lenses. The E camera seem to be aimed at a lower price point and more of the content may come from outside Leica . Portugal could be involved in a assembly leaving Wetzlar for final testing and QC.

    I only mentioned it because it may be relevant to when the “E” product comes to market ..nothing more .

    Kaufmann gave the primary reasons for “potential delays” ....no capacity to produce lenses until the new factories and we have our hands full getting the next generation M out /bringing up two factories .

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    Re: BJP Interview with Kaufmann

    I would love to see the Kodak spin-off get back into CMOS. They did some pioneering work in it. It was a mistake for them to "dump" it prematurely. CCD's still hold advantages with regard to fundamental noise. CMOS offers on-chip processing to reduce it's effects on the output of the device.

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    Re: BJP Interview with Kaufmann

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    They said they will continue to work with the Kodak spin off and that the M10 will have live view and video . That means CMOS from the spin off.
    I'm not sure you can assume that. My reading of the BJP piece was that Leica will continue to source sensors from Truesense – presumably for the M Monochrom and M9 (the latter apparently to be available alongside the M10) – and also that the M10 will feature live view and video. I didn't read it that the two insights are necessarily connected. As they do with the X2, Leica can buy the CMOS sensor for the M10 from an alternative source.
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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: BJP Interview with Kaufmann

    Quote Originally Posted by wattsy View Post
    I'm not sure you can assume that. My reading of the BJP piece was that Leica will continue to source sensors from Truesense – presumably for the M Monochrom and M9 (the latter apparently to be available alongside the M10) – and also that the M10 will feature live view and video. I didn't read it that the two insights are necessarily connected. As they do with the X2, Leica can buy the CMOS sensor for the M10 from an alternative source.
    You could well be correct ..I would expect that overtime Leica will need to be consistent in their sensors . My understanding is that changing to a different vendor requires significant changes to the in camera processor . Personally I would like the Dalsa 23MP CCD chip that was rumored earlier this year .

    Truesense makes the S2 chip as well and they could conceivably be a supplier for some time .

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    Re: BJP Interview with Kaufmann

    I'm worried that 'bout that M10, but the XPro-1 shows me that a CMOS can provide nice files in the manner and pop that I like...I just worry about too many MP's and a loss of that look. Leica lenses do really well with the CCD....

    Good think the M9's already here
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