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Thread: S3 at Photokina? More Details ?

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    S3 at Photokina? More Details ?

    A while back we had quite a go at the likelihood of an S3 at Photokina. Those favoring a new S3 cited the possible change from CCD to CMOS and a change in suppliers . Against pointed out the complexity of a new factory ,the M10 and that the S volume is small volume . Leica Rumors has been excellent over the past few years ....had the 50 sum micron asph and the mono months before anyone would consider it . Today they reported a new S3 at Photokina with the same size 37.5 sensor but improved performance over the S2.

    The obvious CMOS supports live view,video and can be tuned to perform at high ISO s . Maybe more sophisticated AF/AE capabilities similar to a DSLR.

    You can also see the benefits of a 37.5 sensor on manufacturing .

    However the S user is never satisfied ..really you have no requests for new capabilities? :face smack:

    Remember this is speculation but based on a decent source and no details are available or can be confirmed .

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    Subscriber Member KurtKamka's Avatar
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    Re: S3 at Photokina? More Details ?

    It'll be interesting to see if they have some sort of trade-up program in mind for those that bought into the S2 system. If they do offer the S2 as a lower price 'entry level' model, it could help them add more user volume to the system.

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    Re: S3 at Photokina? More Details ?

    Quote Originally Posted by KurtKamka View Post
    It'll be interesting to see if they have some sort of trade-up program in mind for those that bought into the S2 system. If they do offer the S2 as a lower price 'entry level' model, it could help them add more user volume to the system.
    Whatever else, I'm sure they won't do a formal 'trade up' option - as far as I can see it just crucifies secondhand prices and sends everyone scurrying off to buy a D800e

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    Re: S3 at Photokina? More Details ?

    I am interested in getting in the S system if the price of S2 is lowered. As good as the D800(E) is, the image quality cannot be compared to that of S2, IMHO.

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    Re: S3 at Photokina? More Details ?

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    A while back we had quite a go at the likelihood of an S3 at Photokina. Those favoring a new S3 cited the possible change from CCD to CMOS and a change in suppliers . Against pointed out the complexity of a new factory ,the M10 and that the S volume is small volume . Leica Rumors has been excellent over the past few years ....had the 50 sum micron asph and the mono months before anyone would consider it . Today they reported a new S3 at Photokina with the same size 37.5 sensor but improved performance over the S2.

    The obvious CMOS supports live view,video and can be tuned to perform at high ISO s . Maybe more sophisticated AF/AE capabilities similar to a DSLR.

    You can also see the benefits of a 37.5 sensor on manufacturing .

    However the S user is never satisfied ..really you have no requests for new capabilities? :face smack:

    Remember this is speculation but based on a decent source and no details are available or can be confirmed .
    Contrary to the above, I'm quite satisfied with my S2, and am skeptical of marketing hype claiming increase performance until I actually see it ... especially CMOS at the same meg count.

    If the S3 indeed has improved per pixel quality, has a (much) higher usable ISO, and a bit better AF, then I can get rid of my 35mm DSLR system and use the S2/S3 kit for much more of the work I do. Currently I carry an A900 as back-up, but wouldn't have to if this S3 comes to be as rumored. Selling the S2 would be a huge waste of money IMO.

    It is the S lenses most of us bought into ... so another camera is neither here nor there unless they jacked the meg count to 60 or something.

    The only time I've ever used live view when I had it on a 35mm DSLR was to test lenses because they needed to be calibrated in camera ... not an issue with the Leica S. I have zero use for video, but it should be interesting to see what a S could do.

    I wouldn't hold my breath regarding a trade-up program from Leica (which is why Hasselblad and Phase One are better pro or tecno-chaser choices in the long run) ... however, I do wish Leica would offer an extended warranty on the S2 as many have run out or going to run out soon.

    My 2

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    Crikey, Photokina is shaping up to be an all out assault on my piggy bank ... Hasselblad, and Leica S3/M10 at the same time? ... Oh my good God! All just when the economy is circling the drain for the second time. May be that some of us will have to just love the one we are with

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: S3 at Photokina? More Details ?

    Didn t you see the sarcasm :bug eyes: Agree 100% ..this looks as if Leica is fitting the next release to their desires to adopt a new sensor supplier ,give the S model line a little sales boast and minimize the impact on the production facility .

    The S2 has a very nice balance of all my requirements ..except its a little to expensive to be using two bodies .

    My powder is staying dry until I see proof of claims .

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Contrary to the above, I'm quite satisfied with my S2, and am skeptical of marketing hype claiming increase performance until I actually see it ... especially CMOS at the same meg count.

    If the S3 indeed has improved per pixel quality, has a (much) higher usable ISO, and a bit better AF, then I can get rid of my 35mm DSLR system and use the S2/S3 kit for much more of the work I do. Currently I carry an A900 as back-up, but wouldn't have to if this S3 comes to be as rumored. Selling the S2 would be a huge waste of money IMO.

    It is the S lenses most of us bought into ... so another camera is neither here nor there unless they jacked the meg count to 60 or something.

    The only time I've ever used live view when I had it on a 35mm DSLR was to test lenses because they needed to be calibrated in camera ... not an issue with the Leica S. I have zero use for video, but it should be interesting to see what a S could do.

    I wouldn't hold my breath regarding a trade-up program from Leica (which is why Hasselblad and Phase One are better pro or tecno-chaser choices in the long run) ... however, I do wish Leica would offer an extended warranty on the S2 as many have run out or going to run out soon.

    My 2

    -Marc

    Crikey, Photokina is shaping up to be an all out assault on my piggy bank ... Hasselblad, and Leica S3/M10 at the same time? ... Oh my good God! All just when the economy is circling the drain for the second time. May be that some of us will have to just love the one we are with

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: S3 at Photokina? More Details ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Whatever else, I'm sure they won't do a formal 'trade up' option - as far as I can see it just crucifies secondhand prices and sends everyone scurrying off to buy a D800e
    Not following the logic . If an S3 is launched it will create an immediate demand from the early adopters . They in turn will dump their used S2 s at what the market will pay . If Leica controls the used bodies and adds a warranty they can sell them at a higher price . They inflate the used price a bit and offset it with a slightly more expensive S3. My guess is that the S3 will have good step up in margin for Leica (R&D being amortized over the first few years of production).

    This is different than lowering the price to market like HB does .

    The key is to show that the S2 holds value better than other MF solutions .

    What am I missing ? other than Leica will not do this .

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    Re: S3 at Photokina? More Details ?

    I'm waiting for the S4, it will have twice the numbers the S2 has :P

    Seriously though, its win situation for the lenses!
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    Re: S3 at Photokina? More Details ?

    Isn't it a given in the digital age that the camera body is antiquated once the new kid on the block is announced? It does not mean that it ceases to function but rather like a woman's shoe, it loses luster after the season is over.

    It is silly to think that I "NEED" a new camera just because it is new and improved. I feel that the deficiencies in the S2 can be corrected with software to a point. So buying into a new S3 just because it offers incremental niceties is pointless.

    My big wish is for a roadmap for the lens lineup - what is expected and most important, when.
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    Re: S3 at Photokina? More Details ?

    Quote Originally Posted by atanabe View Post
    Isn't it a given in the digital age that the camera body is antiquated once the new kid on the block is announced? It does not mean that it ceases to function but rather like a woman's shoe, it loses luster after the season is over.

    It is silly to think that I "NEED" a new camera just because it is new and improved. I feel that the deficiencies in the S2 can be corrected with software to a point. So buying into a new S3 just because it offers incremental niceties is pointless.

    My big wish is for a roadmap for the lens lineup - what is expected and most important, when.
    YES!

    I think that constant "gotta upgrade" mentality is getting outdated. It was valid when the performance and meg count was a bit anemic (like a 10 meg crop frame M8 verses a 18 meg FF M9)... but that isn't the case any longer. Any true difference seems to come only at some price in other areas. Meanwhile, the software gets better and better with each new version ... I get a lot more out of the S2 than I did when I first bought it.

    I actually wouldn't be moved to upgrade if they push this camera to ISO 3200 or more ... I don't use it in that manner anyway ... however I DO want the M10 to be a much better high ISO camera for lower light candid work.

    Anyway ...

    -Marc

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    Re: S3 at Photokina? More Details ?

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    Didn t you see the sarcasm :bug eyes: Agree 100% ..this looks as if Leica is fitting the next release to their desires to adopt a new sensor supplier ,give the S model line a little sales boast and minimize the impact on the production facility .

    The S2 has a very nice balance of all my requirements ..except its a little to expensive to be using two bodies .

    My powder is staying dry until I see proof of claims .
    Well, the two bodies concept is strictly for paying work ... but one would have to do something substantially better than the other so I could dump all the 35mm stuff and go to exclusive S for most work.

    Frankly, I couldn't swing a second S body either without considerably thinning down a lot of other gear.

    -Marc

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    Re: S3 at Photokina? More Details ?

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    Those favoring a new S3 cited the possible change from CCD to CMOS and a change in suppliers .
    No there will be still CCD on the S3 and a few more things...

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: S3 at Photokina? More Details ?

    Quote Originally Posted by xpixel View Post
    No there will be still CCD on the S3 and a few more things...
    Now I could get excited about the S3 if its still CCD but every statement to date has been about moving to CMOS . The rendering of the S2 CCD in LR4 is exceptional . I am sure whatever leica introduces will be great ....but it will be better for me if the S2 and S3 files can be processed in a similar fashion .

    Where did you hear about it being a CCD?

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    Re: S3 at Photokina? More Details ?

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post

    Where did you hear about it being a CCD?

    From a safe source.

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    Re: S3 at Photokina? More Details ?

    Does your safe source have any details on sensor pixel count or manufacturer? As for "a few more things", would you care to elaborate?

    I love the S2 camera and lenses. It'd be right up there as the perfect camera for me. One can only hope a new body will stimulate the S2 second hand market and bring it into an affordable realm!

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: S3 at Photokina? More Details ?

    Agree....the only thing that will put an S3 on my want list is CCD and 60Mp or more . Otherwise the S2 has everything I need in a MF system . If its CMOS the files will be significantly different from the S2 .

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    Re: S3 at Photokina? More Details ?

    Quote Originally Posted by glenerrolrd View Post
    ...If its CMOS the files will be significantly different from the S2 .
    I wonder why more people are not discussing this in regards to the much rumored M10?

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